Feminism and You

[Hustler]

Well, do you?

[Vagabond]

Depends.

[Claverhouse]

Did you really have to ask ?

Anyway, categories time again: how in the world could a secular degeneracy such as feminism ( or masculinism for that matter ) be remotely linked to philosophy, let alone spirituality ? Unless you're into worshipping the Great Mother, which the old hags who have dominated the movement since the 50s appear to have stayed well clear of.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Burble]

I AM A FEMBOT

Must vanquish Patriarchy
Must kill mysogynists
Must use victimhood mentality to exploit
Must retain double standards

[Star]

Must not visit this forum again.

[Helios]

Must not visit this forum again.

It is an internet forum sweetie, why don't you get over that, and yourself too

[eyebyte_atWork]

I am a boy - not a girl and sadly not really in tune with the issues around being a girl. I probably should be and maybe one day I will be more in tune.

[SgtWalrus]

Nah ~ Feminism started cool : Wollstonecraft, then Pankhurst & the Suffragettes. Now it's the female equivalent of misogynism. Fuckdembitches.

Misogynists are pathetic guys who were screwed over and can't get over it, they generally don't have the skillz to get the woman they want. Feminists are women who can't come to terms with their sexuality, or have serious issues with men.

[PenguinHunter]

Depends on how you define feminist. Like all the isms feminism has some pretty varied definitions.

[kuranes]

Agree with Penguin. If it's equal pay for equal work, or trying to eliminate non-functional stereotypes for both sexes, then I'm a feminist. Some of the extreme stuff is just that. And I don't support it typically.

We're still waiting to hear Hustler's POV. Well? Aren't we?

[panda]

It is an internet forum sweetie, why don't you get over that, and yourself too
That's rather harsh.

[Hustler]

Agree with Penguin. If it's equal pay for equal work, or trying to eliminate non-functional stereotypes for both sexes, then I'm a feminist. Some of the extreme stuff is just that. And I don't support it typically.

We're still waiting to hear Hustler's POV. Well? Aren't we?

But Penguin is wrong. Look at the wording of the question. It doesn't depend on how I define feminism, it depends on how YOU define feminism. The question is whether you consider yourself to be a feminist; not whether you consider yourself to fit my definition of a feminist. Why can't you two just man up and answer the question?

[PenguinHunter]

But Penguin is wrong. Look at the wording of the question. It doesn't depend on how I define feminism, it depends on how YOU define feminism. The question is whether you consider yourself to be a feminist; not whether you consider yourself to fit my definition of a feminist. Why can't you two just man up and answer the question?

I thought about that about that as I wrote it but I stand by my original post. Your original question wasn't clear on that at all. "Feminist" could have meant the generally acepted definition (where I would have refused to answer because of ambiguity) or my own definition. The wording of your question makes the former more likely. If what you just said was the intention of the question then.... no, you know what I don't think I will answer. Just because I don't feel like it. There's too many of these feminism-mysogyny threads anyways.

It's good to see you are "man" enough to answer your own question.

[indie]

Do you consider yourself a feminist?

Not quite. Bra-burning creates pollution.

[kuranes]

But Penguin is wrong. Look at the wording of the question. It doesn't depend on how I define feminism, it depends on how YOU define feminism. The question is whether you consider yourself to be a feminist; not whether you consider yourself to fit my definition of a feminist. Why can't you two just man up and answer the question?

Hustler - You haven't said what your definition of it is yet, in this thread anyway. So how could I "honestly" tell you whether I agree with your def or not, even if you HAD asked? You point out that you DIDN'T ask. That you wanted to hear what others think. I just TOLD you in my earlier post what some of my considerations would be. I don't think I dodged the question at all, as you imply. Regardless of whether your original question OFFERED to volunteer your position, I'm ASKING what it is, since you seem to be insistent on knowing mine. I've said what I did as an answer, now you can do some talking yourSELF, instead of just acting like you're master of ceremonies with no opinion required.

[SgtWalrus]

Why can't you two just man up and answer the question?

It's not a matter of "manning up" à la John Wanye. Penguin makes a valid point, like Postmodernism, Feminism is an ambigous term with many interpretations. In their answer, both are recognizing that by answering they may pigeon-hole themselves into one of Feminism's rigid definitions. Defining it themselves can lead to misunderstanding (like my answer, which can offend "feminists" whose definition thereof I could possibly agree with). I refuse to take the poll cause it further polarizes the issue.

We are still waiting for your answer. How do you define Feminism? Howabout Misogynism? Man up.

[Hustler]

Are all of you retarded? Do you consider yourself a feminist or not? It's a very simple yes or no question. The wording and supposed "ambiguity" are exactly what make it interesting to me, because your answer to this question tells me more about you than declaring whether or not you fit in with some concrete and exact definition of feminism which I could supply. You know your own opinions on what feminism is, and you have ideas about the ways in which society defines feminism. Given that information, you can make a determination about yourself as to whether you think you're a feminist or not. Anyhow, balking at answering the question because of perceived ambiguity or the inability to commit to a decision when you don't know how someone else will interpret said decision is just as telling.

[SgtWalrus]

Are all of you retarded?

http://members.dodo.net.au/~grindercom/argument.jpg

[ShadyShady]

Misogynists are pathetic guys who were screwed over and can't get over it, .

"many men can now get news and information unfiltered by the feminist media. Men log on, share stories, and realize that what they experienced isn't an isolated incident but a national and international trend."

[SgtWalrus]

many men can now get news and information unfiltered by the feminist media.

Feminist media? What, Everybody Loves Raymond? Oprah? Dr. Phil?


Men log on, share stories, and realize that what they experienced isn't an isolated incident but a national and international trend.

Thanks for confirming my point, Shady: Misogynists are pathetic guys who were screwed over and can't get over it.

[ShadyShady]

hey if you want to get screwed go ahead, maybe you dont have much to lose. on the other hand, I have alot to lose.

[ShadyShady]

Feminist media? What, Everybody Loves Raymond? Oprah? Dr. Phil?



I want your child ... and nothing else! (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050824/od_nm/b_dutch_sperm_dc_1)

[panda]

This thread sucks.

:llama: (Does anyone know/remember what this "llama" creature is actually called?)

Here are some very happy bananas.

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[SgtWalrus]

haha. methinks I'll join u.

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[PenguinHunter]

*penguinhunter's head explodes*

[CoHo]

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=feminist&x=0&y=0


the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

Huh

[SgtWalrus]

the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

Yeah, well that was the original aim of Feminism. So, yes I would agree with Feminism under that definiton.

Then there's the Marilyn French "All men are rapists" feminism, which is the realm of militant hag academics. This is the female form of misogynism.

And that's that. Back to dancing . . . :banana: :banana: :banana:

[panda]

This is the female form of misogynism.
That would be misandry.

Now back to dancing...
:banana: :banana: :banana:

What the heck, let's throw in another mutated llama warrior... :llama:

[kuranes]

Are all of you retarded? Do you consider yourself a feminist or not? It's a very simple yes or no question. The wording and supposed "ambiguity" are exactly what make it interesting to me, because your answer to this question tells me more about you than declaring whether or not you fit in with some concrete and exact definition of feminism which I could supply. You know your own opinions on what feminism is, and you have ideas about the ways in which society defines feminism. Given that information, you can make a determination about yourself as to whether you think you're a feminist or not. Anyhow, balking at answering the question because of perceived ambiguity or the inability to commit to a decision when you don't know how someone else will interpret said decision is just as telling.

You're so full of it your eyes must be brown. I said that I AM a feminist, by MY definition, and voted so in the poll. Then I said what that def WAS! If that's not specific enough for you, what can I say? Learn to read. ( It's in post #10 in this thread. )

And if you don't want to say what your own vote would be, that's your right. I think it's silly for someone to start a thread regarding a subject about which he has no opinion he wants to share though.

[Imen de Naars]

I don't agree even on "the political-social-economic equality of the sexes".

First of all, because seems like a marxist concept of class struggle, with the exception that you have to substitute "sexes" for "classes" and here you go.

Moreover, I really don't understand wheter it wants a collectivistic redistribution of political, social and economical "rights" so that everybody - males and females - would live happily in an anti-randyan world. Which would be fine for me, but not really efficient and a bit totalitarian.

Apart from the political/philosophical bitching, I am unable to think individuals as "groups". Therefore seems ridiculous to me to speak of "feminism" "communism" "nationalism" and such.

[Hustler]

You're so full of it your eyes must be brown. I said that I AM a feminist, by MY definition, and voted so in the poll. Then I said what that def WAS! If that's not specific enough for you, what can I say? Learn to read. ( It's in post #10 in this thread. )

If you learn to read, maybe you'll be able to figure out that there are other participants in this thread, some of whom are retarded and some of whom have still failed to get past the lack of a concrete definition of feminism presented for them. Does everything always have to be about you?


And if you don't want to say what your own vote would be, that's your right. I think it's silly for someone to start a thread regarding a subject about which he has no opinion he wants to share though.

That's only because of your lack of vision.

[Serotonin]

My definition is one that is indelibly linked with people fighting for their own rights. The only way I can contribute to the movement is indirectly. I endorse and encourage a sensible and circumspect feminism from women, but I don't consider myself a feminist. I'd really need ovaries for that.

Billy Connolly: "Feminism. It was never my holy grail".

[illusivemind]

Feminism has lost its power with less people considering themselves feminist because it's less clear what the goals of the feminist movement are.

Is there even such a thing as a coherent feminist movement anymore? Probably not, just disparate groups who use the label as a way of banding together.

The problem I have with the word (it is just a word like all others) is that of the 'Feminist critique', this is an ideological framework that seeks new feminist readings and interpretations of traditionally masculine texts. In my experience as an undergraduate student, university lecturers love to use this and 'Marxists readings' to explain class and gender relations in every single text. This represents the proletariat, that represents the male penis envy etc.

Well this has been little more than a rant.

[kuranes]

If you learn to read, maybe you'll be able to figure out that there are other participants in this thread, some of whom are retarded and some of whom have still failed to get past the lack of a concrete definition of feminism presented for them. Does everything always have to be about you?



That's only because of your lack of vision.

In your post ( #12 ) it was ME specifically you quoted as supposedly not understanding what you were getting at. So why wouldn't I assume that you were still including me in your general critiques?

If you don't want people to try and define feminism, then I guess all you are asking for is a bunch of posts that say one word - "yes" or "no" as to whether they "ARE" a feminist or not. Which would be a stupid concept IMHO.

If you think the word "feminism" is too vague, why criticize people for attempting to clarify this very vagueness? Why not simply say that you think it is an imprecise term? There are many such words in the world, but people still use them for an overall "ballpark" meaning/communication, such as "love." "Hustle" is another vague word, sometimes implying simple "drive" and other times involving prostitution and deception. Apparently some people still like to use it though. Should we start a thread on that?

"Hustler"- Are you? Well?


;P

[coffeezombie]

"Hustle" is another vague word, sometimes implying simple "drive" and other times involving prostitution and deception. Apparently some people still like to use it though. Should we start a thread on that?

"Hustler"- Are you? Well?

I think of "cheesy 70s disco dance" when I see Hustler's name. I often like to imagine him "doing the Hustle" with that song in the background in between his posts to us (okay, I've dated myself somewhat now).

[misutii]

all this talk of misogynists and feminists leads to an all important question.... is there such thing as misogynist feminists?

[booyalab]

The problem I have with the word (it is just a word like all others) is that of the 'Feminist critique', this is an ideological framework that seeks new feminist readings and interpretations of traditionally masculine texts. In my experience as an undergraduate student, university lecturers love to use this and 'Marxists readings' to explain class and gender relations in every single text. This represents the proletariat, that represents the male penis envy etc.


I hate that too. For me, it was happening as early as high school. Luckily my Humanities teacher had the common sense to point out the absurdity of interpreting something using a 'lens' that originated hundreds of years after it's time.
Anyway, you know you're in trouble when everything in a text is supposed to be a symbol, regardless of the philosophy behind it, since the symbolic representations only exist in your head.

[ShadyShady]

I took a political science course 2 years ago and after every rant in the textbook they gave us there was a couple of pages explaining why plato was a misogynist, why aristotle was a misogynist, etc., in EVERY CHAPTER. that was when I first began to fully see the thought police brainwashing fembots are into.

[booyalab]

I took a political science course 2 years ago and after every rant in the textbook they gave us there was a couple of pages explaining why plato was a misogynist, why aristotle was a misogynist, etc., in EVERY CHAPTER. that was when I first began to fully see the thought police brainwashing fembots are into.

see, people can take me seriously when i point out an experience with the excesses of feminism. But everyone knows a textbook written by you would conclude each chapter with: why Betsy Ross/Josephine/Eleanor Roosevelt/ Mother Theresa/etc was a thought police brainwashing fembot.

[SgtWalrus]

I took a political science course 2 years ago and after every rant in the textbook they gave us there was a couple of pages explaining why plato was a misogynist, why aristotle was a misogynist, etc., in EVERY CHAPTER. that was when I first began to fully see the thought police brainwashing fembots are into.

I also find it annoying when ultra-PC academia blast great thinkers such as Plato & Nietzsche for mysoginism. Postmodern feminism has taken a militant turn, no doubt. But I think it's paranoid to think that the fembot thought police are trying to infiltrate your manhood & metaphorically cut off your balls. Pomo Feminism is the realm of a few ivory tower hags; I don't see how it can be affecting your life unless you're thinking about it WAYYY too much (applying it to every TV show, chick, etc. you run across).

[illusivemind]

I took a political science course 2 years ago and after every rant in the textbook they gave us there was a couple of pages explaining why plato was a misogynist, why aristotle was a misogynist, etc., in EVERY CHAPTER. that was when I first began to fully see the thought police brainwashing fembots are into.

That really irks me. Plato was arguably one of the MOST progressive thinkers on gender relations in his time. In 'The Republic' he argued that some men may be stronger or faster than some women but this does not mean all women are unsuitable for the jobs of men because there are women who are stronger and faster than some men. (He was big on the idea of meritocracy).

He claimed the Greeks were less sexist in choosing animals for labour than people.

[shum]

i am a humanist.
people can debate here all they want about the definitions of feminism but my 12 yr old son mentioned to me tonight how unfair it is that there are so many more commercials for women's razors than mens. he then went on to tell me that girls are "pressured" into shaving as well as the wearing of makeup by the "pressures of society".
my daughter jumped in the conversation claiming that everyone has a choice and that lead to a discussion concerning informed decision making.

it is most unfortunate that the word feminism exists. it never should have. women never should have been repressed enough that an actual movement was needed to free them. so why would someone ever question whether or not someone believes in the quest for equality?

i think it should be called humanism. then again after hearing the wisdom of my son i dont think it should be called anything, it should just be.

[Hustler]

If you don't want people to try and define feminism, then I guess all you are asking for is a bunch of posts that say one word - "yes" or "no" as to whether they "ARE" a feminist or not. Which would be a stupid concept IMHO.

Fortunately, I don't really consider your opinion on this matter to be worth very much. You don't understand my rationale for creating the poll the way I did and so you think it's stupid. Congratulations, you have a small mind.


"Hustle" is another vague word, sometimes implying simple "drive" and other times involving prostitution and deception. Apparently some people still like to use it though. Should we start a thread on that?

That sounds like a great thread. Please, get right on that.

[coffeezombie]

Fortunately, I don't really consider your opinion on this matter to be worth very much. You don't understand my rationale for creating the poll the way I did and so you think it's stupid. Congratulations, you have a small mind.
I think the entire world has a small mind compared to you, and that's most of the problem.

[Serotonin]

Fortunately, I don't really consider your opinion on this matter to be worth very much. You don't understand my rationale for creating the poll the way I did and so you think it's stupid. Congratulations, you have a small mind.


Then enlighten us small minds to the rationale behind the thread.

[mgb]

Dear kuranes, coffeezombie and Serotonin,

You only have yourselves to blame for stepping into "Misogyny Corner". I mean, you know what's coming, you know it isn't going to make any sense but you walk in there anyways.

[kuranes]

* sighs and sets down Hustler toy *

The toy soon gets kicked into the corner of the room. Forgotten until it's used again. Just like the movie "Toy Story" the Hustler toy hopes that it is never completely forgotten. It will do things to try to get attention. Will it succeed? Stay tuned.

[MacGuffin]

There was a recent article about the word "feminism" in Salon.com:

The F Word (http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2005/07/05/f_word/)


...she (NOW president Kim Gandy) said, we cannot pretend that "feminism" has escaped the fate of "liberalism" before it. "This is what the right-wing has done to our language," she said. "'Liberal' is a proud term. But at a certain point, it became very difficult for people to call themselves liberal. If you asked them about issues they would say, 'I'm not liberal, I'm progressive.' Excuse me, you are a liberal! But the right made that a bad word. They've done the same thing with 'feminism.'" And the reader response:

Letters (http://www.salon.com/mwt/letters/2005/07/12/fword_letters/index.html?sid=1363521)

[nonsequitur]

i am a humanist.
people can debate here all they want about the definitions of feminism but my 12 yr old son mentioned to me tonight how unfair it is that there are so many more commercials for women's razors than mens. he then went on to tell me that girls are "pressured" into shaving as well as the wearing of makeup by the "pressures of society".
my daughter jumped in the conversation claiming that everyone has a choice and that lead to a discussion concerning informed decision making.

it is most unfortunate that the word feminism exists. it never should have. women never should have been repressed enough that an actual movement was needed to free them. so why would someone ever question whether or not someone believes in the quest for equality?

i think it should be called humanism. then again after hearing the wisdom of my son i dont think it should be called anything, it should just be.


Well said. I've always labelled myself a humanist, but right now, I don't think I deserve any sort of social/political label. I don't think people should label and generalise, especially since everyone is an individual, and definitions like those on "feminism" are really quite iffy and unclear.

[coffeezombie]

Dear kuranes, coffeezombie and Serotonin,

You only have yourselves to blame for stepping into "Misogyny Corner". I mean, you know what's coming, you know it isn't going to make any sense but you walk in there anyways.
But I think it's as amusing for us as it is for him. We know nothing constructive will ever come from our efforts, but that doesn't make it less fun.

[Hustler]

I think the entire world has a small mind compared to you, and that's most of the problem.

I agree. Fortunately for me, though, it is their problem. In this thread, it is kuranes's problem that he cannot decipher the deeper meaning conveyed by this poll and the progression of the posts in this thread. It frustrates him to the point that he must insult me in order to feel better about not getting it. A lack of understanding is a precursor to fear, and the fear he has is that he's missing out. In order to squash that, he must either attain understanding or devalue that which he does not understand, and I think we can all see the choice he has made. I offer kuranes enlightenment, but I will not spoon-feed it to him.

[Hustler]

Then enlighten us small minds to the rationale behind the thread.

Enlighten yourself. You have the means. You tell me the rationale behind this thread.

[notjeffgoldblum]

haha I love this definition.

feminism: The theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes.

"Interesting theory... You just might be onto something!"

[skip]

You don't have to be a woman to be a feminist. Look at Webster's definition (in notjeffgoldblum's post). Any civilized person is a feminist.

[The Phantom]

To be honest I find the whole feminism thing is a little irritating and over the top. Are things really that bad for women. You get bought free drinks and meals you get to marry into money if you wish and we let you go through doors first. You also have sexual power which is a huge plus for you, so what is the fuss really about? I think feminism is asking for more cake when you already have a big fat slice of cake on your plate that is dripping with chocolate sauce and sprinkles.

[Madrigal]

To be honest I find the whole feminism thing is a little irritating and over the top. Are things really that bad for women. You get bought free drinks and meals you get to marry into money if you wish and we let you go through doors first. You also have sexual power which is a huge plus for you, so what is the fuss really about? I think feminism is asking for more cake when you already have a big fat slice of cake on your plate that is dripping with chocolate sauce and sprinkles.

To name a few - sexual harassment, lower pay for the same job, the glass ceiling, many male-dominated professions, and in many parts of the world, legalized oppression of the most brutal kind. So how 'bout you shut the fuck up, {removed}.

[The Phantom]

To name a few - sexual harassment, lower pay for the same job, the glass ceiling, many male-dominated professions, and in many parts of the world, legalized oppression of the most brutal kind. So how 'bout you shut the fuck up, {removed}.

Wow your hot when your angry ;) Point taken. But I'm judging by where I live and women over here get away with murder.

[Delilah]

Wow your hot when your angry ;) Point taken. But I'm judging by where I live and women over here get away with murder.

Wow, are you ever a {removed}.

[walfin]

Wow your hot when your angry Point taken. But I'm judging by where I live and women over here get away with murder.

It must mean women are better at selecting lawyers.


To name a few - sexual harassment, lower pay for the same job, the glass ceiling, many male-dominated professions, and in many parts of the world, legalized oppression of the most brutal kind. So how 'bout you shut the fuck up, asshole.
1, 2 & 3 are not quite so severe in several places around the world, although they're still a real problem in other places. In my country it's been found that women earn more than men (due to the fact that men spend two years in the army before university, and that the pay system is based on experience and women are thus "more experienced", so they earn more for the same job). 1 is prevented by legislation. There's nothing more that can be done apart from sending perpetrators to jail.
4 - depends on profession. Sometimes women avoid certain things out of choice. Jobs like firefighter for example. In some professions women outnumber men (judges in France for example).
5 - again, depends on place.

I would be very happy about women's emancipation, especially in areas where they're seriously oppressed.

What I'm afraid of is the balance shifting too far in the other direction, so things become manifestly unfair for men. The solution is critical damping, not a swing in the other direction which will make things take even longer to return to equilibrium (i.e. equality).

[MacGuffin]

No name calling!

[Delilah]

No name calling!

Well he is!

[Etherealsage]

I have no problems with, and would even say I respect, feminism, but I do have issues when some women fly the feminism flag and start male bashing and saying there should be a matriarchal supremacy. Unfortunately, I've only ever met these types and never managed to sit down and have a conversation with an actual feminist about their ideals and beliefs (I believe in the idea that if you want to examine the worth of a belief, examine its effect on its subscribers, and I don't really care to rely on word of mouth for these types of things). I get the fight itself though, and I'm for it, I wouldn't use the word feminist to describe me however, even if I fought along side said women for their rights. That's pretty much it for now.

[lowtech redneck]

You don't have to be a woman to be a feminist. Look at Webster's definition (in notjeffgoldblum's post). Any civilized person is a feminist.

True, the problem is that many people think that support for various ostensibly "feminist" causes is necessary in order to adhere to that definition, which kind of poisons the term as far as common usage is concerned. This (old) poll asks whether people CALL themselves feminist, so most folks will probably go by the common usage definition.

[NoahFence]

I'm not a feminist because I wholeheartedly believe in equality of the sexes.

[amur]

I am a feminist.
Not the media hyped idea of what it is.
I believe women can be sexy, not sexy, straight, lesbian, look/act like Paris Hilton if they want, look like a frump if they want, stay at home mothers, business women.
The lot. Feminism just means letting people have the right to be what they are without oppression.

Simple as that.

[The Phantom]

1, 2 & 3 are not quite so severe in several places around the world, although they're still a real problem in other places. In my country it's been found that women earn more than men (due to the fact that men spend two years in the army before university, and that the pay system is based on experience and women are thus "more experienced", so they earn more for the same job). 1 is prevented by legislation. There's nothing more that can be done apart from sending perpetrators to jail.
4 - depends on profession. Sometimes women avoid certain things out of choice. Jobs like firefighter for example. In some professions women outnumber men (judges in France for example).
5 - again, depends on place.

I would be very happy about women's emancipation, especially in areas where they're seriously oppressed.

What I'm afraid of is the balance shifting too far in the other direction, so things become manifestly unfair for men. The solution is critical damping, not a swing in the other direction which will make things take even longer to return to equilibrium (i.e. equality).

Indeed, well said. I was going to say something similar but I daren't as the recipient was in a state of fury at the time. The evidence of this fury has partially been removed by humble McGuffin.

[amur]

sucking up to MacGuffin and trolling in one.
Congrats.

[cripple]

I'm not a feminist because I wholeheartedly believe in equality of the sexes.
Like this.
I will even take it further, as there is a lot of shades of gray(this is where most people are, but is dragged along by the extreminists). It is not black&white, seems like a last century mindset. I've tested out if feminists really are what they say, but no-turned out to be just another egotrip.

[MadamI'madaM]

I generally believe most of the core arguments of feminism, but I think they've mostly gone about it all wrong.

Sure you have to convince people that a problem exists, but you just can't alienate the other half of the world by telling them to just cut it out like it's their problem. It's a delicate issue, no doubt.

I'd be all for a "gender equality" movement, even if it meant patronizing some people in the process.

[Mr.Miagi]

I'm not a feminist because I wholeheartedly believe in equality of the sexes.

Hey {removed}, what you're stating here is one of the core premises of feminism.

[cripple]

Hey {removed}, what you're stating here is one of the core premises of feminism.
Exactly...

[NoahFence]

I am a feminist.
Not the media hyped idea of what it is.
I believe women can be sexy, not sexy, straight, lesbian, look/act like Paris Hilton if they want, look like a frump if they want, stay at home mothers, business women.
The lot. Feminism just means letting people have the right to be what they are without oppression.

Simple as that.

Yeah, by that definition I'm a feminist. Problem is, the loudest voices have defined feminism as "being like me", where "me" is a raging, drugged gorilla. This is sort of like how I wish Michael Moore was not on "my side"...he supports much of the same things I do, wants to see similar changes, but damn, what an asshole.

I think it just boils down to some people wanting to bring biology into places it doesn't belong. Both genders can have difficulties separating these.

[NoahFence]

Hey {removed}, what you're stating here is one of the core premises of feminism.

Hey {removed}, what you're stating here is that you're completely oblivious to my point.

[MacGuffin]

No insults!