The best jobs for INTPs [Archive]

jetboots

30 Aug 2005, 09:35 PM

These categories are far too general, in my opinion. Sure, being a designer could be enjoyable... but I'm not sure how long I could sustain interesting in, say, designing tampons.

Who says that as a designer you must take a boring job? I guess what I ment is having the background to be able to take a cool job that you would enjoy.

Tampon designer isn't too bad actually if you start to think about it....

And ya, I relize my list sort of is too general, so try makin a better one?

panda

30 Aug 2005, 09:42 PM

Who says that as a designer you must take a boring job? I guess what I ment is having the background to be able to take a cool job that you would enjoy.

Tampon designer isn't too bad actually if you start to think about it....

And ya, I relize my list sort of is too general, so try makin a better one?
I haven't yet encountered a job I found enjoyable for the long-term. For me, it's not so much the specifics of the actual work I do (although that's obviously important), but the things that working entails (the hours, time off, commuting, bosses, rules and regulations, etc). I can find myself truly enjoying the work and yet not able to continue with the job due to the "side-effects".

coffeezombie

30 Aug 2005, 09:46 PM

I think the best an INTP can hope for is to not mind a job during normal work times, and only enjoy it when one gets his or her paycheck.

panda

30 Aug 2005, 09:48 PM

I think the best an INTP can hope for is to not mind a job during normal work times, and only enjoy it when one gets his or her paycheck.
Unfortunately, I agree with you.

EDIT: I have enjoyed the actual "work" on occasion, but the "work" is only one part of the "job".

Nighthawk

30 Aug 2005, 10:00 PM

I think the best an INTP can hope for is to not mind a job during normal work times, and only enjoy it when one gets his or her paycheck.Well said. That's about as good as it gets for me. Too many distractors ... as mentioned earlier ... like the nasty commute, being forced to sit in one place for hours, admin paperwork, meetings, etc. Paycheck is nice though.

PiccoloNamek

31 Aug 2005, 02:29 AM

Huh. Well, I enjoy my job. I'm getting into photography professionally, slowly but surely building a bigger and bigger client base. I also do a lot of work with Photoshop, which is thoroughly enjoyable.

StevINP

31 Aug 2005, 05:48 AM

Well I guess engineering is generally a pretty good field for NTs. Specifically for INTPs though, be very careful which type of engineering job you get into though. I like to sit alone, study a problem very intently and analyze all of its characteristics, and then "probe" for solutions from all possible angles until I finally come up with something. We have the ability to figure out and solve some extremely complex and difficult problems. I think Einstein was an INTP, although I'm no Einstein. :) When you're able to use your abilities to their fullest, you'll have a lot of pride in yourself and those abilities, and your bosses will love you too.

The job I'm in right now I fucking hate with a passion, though. It's way too "J" for me. Maintaining "the schedule" is more important than actually identifying and fixing problems, and in a lot of ways I'm just not being allowed to do my job properly. If I run into some huge and complex issue and I could really use about a week to fix it, guess what? I'm lucky if I get two days and it still MUST be fixed in two days. It's just a fire drill every friggin time, madly throwing crap at something you don't understand completely and can't because you don't have time all in the hope that something you do will fix it, and not break 15 other things. I just can't work like this. My coping mechanism is to work 60-80hrs per week to give me as much "P" time as possible before I have to finalize something, but now I'm burned out and depressed because I realize that I've spent my whole god damn summer at work and summer is officially over in a few days. :mad: It's a product development job and the nature of the product is very time sensitive.

I'd be much happier in some sort of Research & Development job where things aren't nearly as time sensitive, and if you run into some issue you can go off and figure it out even if it takes a few days. Maybe in a few years when my wife can suppot both of us I'll go back to school and get a PhD, or try something different altogether. :shrug:

Nighthawk

31 Aug 2005, 03:32 PM

StevINP, that sounds just like my 3 years with the dotcom. Throw a bunch of crap at a problem over an 80 hour work week and hope that the monstrosity we created would sell to the customer. We never once stopped to analyze something to see if it would actually work, or to solve the underlying problems. It was all a pretty front end with garbage behind it. SP sales guys were running that organization.

Now I work for a bank, where the pace is slower ... but the work is also maddeningly mundane. Nothing but the same financial spreadsheet crap over and over and over again. Also, 50% of the time is taken up with administrative overhead, like timesheets, meetings, mandatory admin classes, reports, etc. Add an ultra-long commute to that and its not exactly the most satisfying job. SJ managers are running this organization.

iponjs

31 Aug 2005, 04:05 PM

Autonomy is key.

Having the flexibility to do what you are currently interested in and to continuously improve things (the right way) is what makes it fun.

Getting it done to meet an arbitrary deadline, broad-brush policies that "correct" behaviors of the few at the expense of the many, set work hours for the sake of having them, POLITICS and superficiality (ego management) - that's the stuff that kills me.

YardGnome

31 Aug 2005, 04:09 PM

Add an ultra-long commute to that and its not exactly the most satisfying job. SJ managers are running this organization.

Just out of curiosity, how long is this "Ultra-long" commute?

Nighthawk

31 Aug 2005, 04:16 PM

Just out of curiosity, how long is this "Ultra-long" commute?Its only 25 miles each way ... but during rush hour that can be 1-1.5 hours each way. Public transportation here sucks, so its not much of an option.

eyebyte_atWork

31 Aug 2005, 04:18 PM

I work with NightHawk and everything he said is true.

Sad - I just hope to one day be able to be free - like a prof at the university.

eyebyte_atWork

31 Aug 2005, 05:00 PM

THere's another job/career that I think Many INTP's could find rewarding. MOB BOSS. the head of a crime family. Just a thought.

floyd

31 Aug 2005, 05:19 PM

http://similarminds.com/jung/intp.html

sandwich

31 Aug 2005, 05:46 PM

SJ managers are running this organization.

SJs are running the world while we look for acceptable jobs.

coffeezombie

31 Aug 2005, 06:36 PM

THere's another job/career that I think Many INTP's could find rewarding. MOB BOSS. the head of a crime family. Just a thought.
One can start practicing on this board.
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/godfather.htm

sbw

31 Aug 2005, 06:48 PM

I just retired. sitting in my house listening to music and playing golf is my new job. I would recommend it to anyone.

Scott

MacGuffin

31 Aug 2005, 06:56 PM

I just retired. sitting in my house listening to music and playing golf is my new job. I would recommend it to anyone.

ScottNice! What did you retire from?

Nighthawk

31 Aug 2005, 07:33 PM

SJs are running the world while we look for acceptable jobs.I've worked in several SP run organizations. They're often entrepreneurial start ups with low administrative overhead. They just do what works without a lot of red tape. On the flip side, they're not much for planning ahead and you often work in chaos mode.

sbw

31 Aug 2005, 08:02 PM

Nice! What did you retire from?

I worked in an office. it was basically clerical work (though it paid pretty well). I bought some condos and rented them to my friends. I sold two (condos, not friends), and was bored with my job, so I quit.

Scott

eyebyte_atWork

31 Aug 2005, 08:05 PM

Very nice... I was thinking about doing something similar. The condos I mean.

Architectonic

1 Sep 2005, 02:11 AM

THere's another job/career that I think Many INTP's could find rewarding. MOB BOSS. the head of a crime family. Just a thought.

And when you start to get bored, someone will put you out of your misery. :ph34r:

sbw

1 Sep 2005, 02:25 AM

Very nice... I was thinking about doing something similar. The condos I mean.

thanks. it's too late here--I've stopped buying because now the houses are so expensive that you can't cover the mortgages with rent. you live in a warm state--what has been the recent trend?

Scott

INTrPosr

1 Sep 2005, 03:13 AM

These categories are far too general, in my opinion. Sure, being a designer could be enjoyable... but I'm not sure how long I could sustain interest in, say, designing tampons.That was my initial thought. I started thinking about things that I would have no interest in designing or analyzing. However, Jetboots correct that, in general those are the two best qualities of INTP...... designing and analyzing.

Loco_Mullus_Surmuletus

2 Sep 2005, 05:38 PM

Researching, anazyzing, focusing at big picture, designing, inventing......

Architecture? 8O

Well, I'm still a student, don't have a degree yet :whistle: , but it seems I found myself, can't explain that feeling. Having opportunity to explore unknown, to play with shapes, forms, patterns, to make your own little theories....

One more thing: Im obsessed with 'meanings' in every way, always feeling that something bigger\deaper is going on, always trying to explain (to myself), to get to the bottom of things...

Is that normal for intp?

floyd

2 Sep 2005, 05:57 PM

favored careers:
philosopher, game designer, scientist, software engineer, freelance artist, research scientist, assassin, freelance writer, physicist, software developer, mathmetician, geologist, computer scientist, philosophy professor, webmaster, slacker, medical researcher, painter, mortician, systems analyst, comic book artist, computer technician, website designer, scholar, archeologist, computer repair, forensic anthropologist, astronaut, researcher, historian, systems engineer, genetics researcher, astronomer, enviromental scientist, egyptologist

disfavored careers:
human resources, public relations, social worker, guidance counselor, health care worker, trainer, school teacher, wedding planner, movie star, hospitality worker, supervisor, child care worker, fundraiser, customer service, stay at home parent, office administrator

jetboots

2 Sep 2005, 06:45 PM

coffeezombie

2 Sep 2005, 07:43 PM

I didn't mind customer service that much. It was a lot of interesting problem solving doing it for the cellular phone industry (as well as talking with cute-sounding young women on the phone :)). On the other hand, the career prospects were not that great for that job.

StevINP

4 Sep 2005, 04:23 PM

One more thing: Im obsessed with 'meanings' in every way, always feeling that something bigger\deaper is going on, always trying to explain (to myself), to get to the bottom of things...

Is that normal for intp?As far as understanding "systems" and unraveling the truth, that's NT. But as for trying to see the bigger and deeper meaning of something, why it matters, why it's important, etc, that's something that my NF side identifies with more. I think NTs care more about "what" happened. NFs care more about "why" it happened. So you may have a lot of "F" in you. But if it's to the point of an obsession, maybe you're really an INFP?

I'm both, (I care about both the "what" and the "why") but lately I've been in more of an INTP mood.

Loco_Mullus_Surmuletus

4 Sep 2005, 09:44 PM

I think NTs care more about "what" happened. NFs care more about "why" it happened.

well, as far as I think, "why" is just a part, sub-category of meaning ''what". The goal is to understand whole structure, and cover every possible aspect and part of it. That kind of obsession. Well, not an obsession itself (can't think of another word, milder one), but the way my mind work 24\7. I just need to research every possible aspect, including "why".
Sometimes i'm more INTJ (like my father), but never NF.

Hustler

4 Sep 2005, 11:41 PM

Nighthawk

5 Sep 2005, 12:10 AM

Jobs are for suckers. That a thread like this exists should pretty much tell us that seeking gainful employment is a futile endeavor for an INTP. You should get rich (to the extent you feel motivated) on your own terms and not worry about finding some job description which meshes well with your personality. As an INTP, it's just not going to happen.From Isabel Briggs Myers' Gifts Differing ...

Well developed types find it relatively easy to heed the warning signal of guilt or misgiving and to alter their behavior, because their perception and judgment are trained for the purpose. People with a severe type deficit, especially a deficit in judgment, seem to build an immense resistance not only against making the effort, but even against admitting that the effort should be made. In this situation, education may be labeled as bunk, manners criticized as affectation, and any worker scorned as a sucker.

Hustler

5 Sep 2005, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Isabel Briggs Myers
Well developed types find it relatively easy to heed the warning signal of guilt or misgiving and to alter their behavior, because their perception and judgment are trained for the purpose. People with a severe type deficit, especially a deficit in judgment, seem to build an immense resistance not only against making the effort, but even against admitting that the effort should be made. In this situation, education may be labeled as bunk, manners criticized as affectation, and any worker scorned as a sucker.

You have made a very basic error in your analysis of my statements: you assume I've not "made the effort." I have, but I have found better avenues to success for myself and for INTPs in general than merely filling some role as laid out by a job description or dictated by some boss. People who want to settle for jobs are suckers. I maintain it is the people among the ranks of the INTPs who settle for jobs who are judgment deficient. By accepting the terms of a job, these poor souls have allowed the resistance to making the effort to do something better doom them to unfulfilling mediocrity. And, in a way, those who defend their jobs and unwillingness to seek out something better are resisting admitting that the effort should be taken to live up to their INTP potential.

Nighthawk

5 Sep 2005, 03:57 PM

You have made a very basic error in your analysis of my statements: you assume I've not "made the effort." I have, but I have found better avenues to success for myself and for INTPs in general than merely filling some role as laid out by a job description or dictated by some boss. People who want to settle for jobs are suckers. I maintain it is the people among the ranks of the INTPs who settle for jobs who are judgment deficient. By accepting the terms of a job, these poor souls have allowed the resistance to making the effort to do something better doom them to unfulfilling mediocrity. And, in a way, those who defend their jobs and unwillingness to seek out something better are resisting admitting that the effort should be taken to live up to their INTP potential.Edit: I'm not trying to insinuate that you haven't made the effort. Just presenting Briggs Myers' words for comment ... since the suckers part was so ironically similar.

Fair enough. I'm open to both sides of the equation. Although I believe in what Briggs Myers says, your words also ring true. I just wish you'd give a few concrete examples ... however I know you have your reasons for not doing so.

floyd

5 Sep 2005, 04:07 PM

From Isabel Briggs Myers' Gifts Differing Originally Posted by Isabel Briggs Myers
Well developed types find it relatively easy to heed the warning signal of guilt or misgiving and to alter their behavior, because their perception and judgment are trained for the purpose. People with a severe type deficit, especially a deficit in judgment, seem to build an immense resistance not only against making the effort, but even against admitting that the effort should be made. In this situation, education may be labeled as bunk, manners criticized as affectation, and any worker scorned as a sucker.

i think the above fits just as well with an NFJ (Isabel Briggs Myers) defending her own core values and saying that anyone that does not value what she values (structure, work, and accommodation) must be unhealthy.

employee culture, where most people resist or are incapable of supporting themself outside of being a cog in someone else's created system creates a less dynamic and individualistic world where the whims of small number of people determine global operation and trends. i can't imagine that is healthy or more healthy than having a greater percentage of the population run their own businesses.

coffeezombie

5 Sep 2005, 04:42 PM

employee culture, where most people resist or are incapable of supporting themself outside of being a cog in someone else's created system creates a less dynamic and individualistic world where the whims of small number of people determine global operation and trends. i can't imagine that is healthy or more healthy than having a greater percentage of the population run their own businesses.
The rationale for this in the past was that you work your way up from apprentice to master, and then gain the kind of control you want. I know that in my particular field, for instance, I have an opportunity someday to be a planning director and basically run the planning affairs of a municipality, so that's my motivation. On the other hand, becoming a "cog" can also give one valuable experience that will give one the opportunity to go into consulting work for him or herself oneday. It's all about delayed gratification and having some patience.

Nighthawk

5 Sep 2005, 04:45 PM

i think the above fits just as well with an NFJ (Isabel Briggs Myers) defending her own core values and saying that anyone that does not value what she values (structure, work, and accommodation) must be unhealthy.

employee culture, where most people resist or are incapable of supporting themself outside of being a cog in someone else's created system creates a less dynamic and individualistic world where the whims of small number of people determine global operation and trends. i can't imagine that is healthy or more healthy than having a greater percentage of the population run their own businesses.Intersting analysis. So we might have an NFJ bias here. I, for one, do not think the present employee culture in the USA is particularly healthy.

INTrPosr

8 Oct 2005, 04:12 PM

Nighthawk

8 Oct 2005, 06:30 PM

I have a secondary function to cover 2nd level IT support for a few hours every day. It's the next level past the help desk. We call people to help solve problems that the help desk cannot answer ... mostly related to specific software applications that we support. I thoroughly despise this part of my job. I am definitely not a help desk type of person. First, as an introvert, I hate having to deal with people on a regular basis. Many of them just want to vent the frustration that they're having with the software or computer. Over half of the problems do not even relate to the software we support ... but are just user error or lack of knowledge about computers. It is a tremendous babysitting process for technophobes. Second, as an intuitive, I find that there is no creative process involved ... just listening to pissed off people and spending 30 minutes trying to talk them through something that I could do in 30 seconds if I was in front of their PC. Perhaps an NF might like the job, but I don't.

Fortunately, software development is my main function, and I devote about 75% of my time to that. One the rare occasions that I have to cover for somebody, and work support most of the day, I am totally miserable. It is such a fragmented, interruptive process that I cannot get in the zone for my software development. After about 3 calls, I just give up and zone out or surf the net for the rest of the day in between calls.

FescherAlsDu

8 Oct 2005, 08:52 PM

Psychologist or professor always sounded pleasant to me, but I would rather finish grade school before plunging into a career.

INTrPosr

8 Oct 2005, 10:37 PM

I thoroughly despise this part of my job. I am definitely not a help desk type of person. First, as an introvert, I hate having to deal with people on a regular basis. Many of them just want to vent the frustration that they're having with the software or computer.Yikes, thanks Nighthawk. Anyone else have stories about Help Desk?

Nighthawk

8 Oct 2005, 11:07 PM

Yikes, thanks Nighthawk. Anyone else have stories about Help Desk?
Eyebyte might have some input. He works the same job I do.

INTrPosr

9 Oct 2005, 12:19 AM

Perhaps an NF might like the job, but I don't.
Now I find that interesting. Is it because the job entails less IT knowledge, skills and ability and just being more people oriented? In that case, I would think that ENTPs may be able to handle the job.

Nighthawk

9 Oct 2005, 03:58 AM

Now I find that interesting. Is it because the job entails less IT knowledge, skills and ability and just being more people oriented? In that case, I would think that ENTPs may be able to handle the job.I was thinking NF because many of the people with whom I deal want somebody to commiserate with them about their predicaments. NFs are often good counselors, which is what a lot of these people seem to need.

I think an ENTP, given his or her extraversion, would be able to handle the job better than an INTP. However, they still might become bored with the non-creative aspects of the job.

file cabinet

9 Oct 2005, 03:58 PM

I met an actuary a few weeks ago which left me recalling a thread here about it ( http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=4028 ).. the math part makes it sounds a little boring.

simian20

9 Oct 2005, 09:29 PM

customer service: hideous hideous hideous. always left these jobs due to the overwhelming suicidal/self harm ruminations that develop. listening and being around fwits all day long who you cant hang upon? send all these jobs to india forthwith. hideous

Nighthawk

9 Oct 2005, 10:52 PM

PsiKik

12 Oct 2005, 12:52 PM

THere's another job/career that I think Many INTP's could find rewarding. MOB BOSS. the head of a crime family. Just a thought. I would find it too stressful. I think a mob boss would have to be
very confrontational and forcefull with people - have
very good people skills.
Isn't the INTP supposed to be too laid back for this kind of thing?

If I found myself transported into the body of a mob boss I'd be whaked in a week.

Perhaps advisor to mob boss would be better, even ideal - say the consiliere?
You could possibly be the one actually controlling the show.

PsiKik

12 Oct 2005, 12:57 PM

Nighthawk

12 Oct 2005, 03:47 PM

Hustler][/b]
Jobs are for suckers. That a thread like this exists should pretty much tell us that seeking gainful employment is a futile endeavor for an INTP.
You should get rich (to the extent you feel motivated) on your own terms and not worry about finding some job description which meshes well with your personality. As an INTP, it's just not going to happen.

Possibly the truest statements regarding the INTP job/career problem.

We claim to be so good at solving problems, so solve this one - create your own occupation to your specifications.Yes ... Hustler has that grain of truth in his statements ... which is what makes me wish he would share more of his insights about how to do this. I know he has his reasons for not doing so, but I'd like to know nonetheless.

I've wrestled with this conundrum for decades. I tried my own business several times, but I discovered that customers were usually even bigger idiots than bosses ... and they are always right too. Also, I can parlay my skills as a software engineer into a lot more money than I ever made being self-employed. So ... that has become a better fit for me. Not an ideal fit, but better than dealing with idiot customers.

I suppose I could hire people to deal with customers for me ... but that makes me a manager ... something else that I don't want to be. I did management for many years and I hate it. People are messy and I don't like to be involved in their problems. Pretty soon you devote all your time just to people, and none to the work you like to do.

So, given my dislikes, my current gig as an engineer, working 11-7 every day, seems to be the best fit I have found ... so far. Maybe I'm missing an important paradigm shift ... which is why I'd be interested in Hustler's methods.

INTrPosr

15 Oct 2005, 02:44 AM

I signed up for a "home-based" business and keep getting these stupid emails and calls regarding selling items like nutritional things. What would be a good home based business for INTPs?

Tensore

15 Oct 2005, 03:01 AM

A salesman and programmer I am not

INTrPosr

16 Nov 2005, 01:04 PM

Some of the more, so called TRADITIONAL (http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/15/pf/training_pay/index.htm) jobs that I would consider INTPs enjoying, are also some of the lowest paying, i.e., architects, researcher, etc.

afton

16 Nov 2005, 01:45 PM

These categories are far too general, in my opinion. Sure, being a designer could be enjoyable... but I'm not sure how long I could sustain interest in, say, designing tampons.

I wouldn't mind designing bikinis. :whistle:

bcct

17 Nov 2005, 04:41 PM

Try this list.
http://personalitytype.com/dwya/intp.html

The first time I see the list, it clicked. I wish I saw this list 15 years younger.

Nighthawk

17 Nov 2005, 05:33 PM

Try this list.
http://personalitytype.com/dwya/intp.html

The first time I see the list, it clicked. I wish I saw this list 15 years younger.
Well, I'm a computer software designer/developer and a website developer ... so I guess I should be moderately happy.

DevRock

17 Nov 2005, 07:56 PM

# Computer software designer/developer
# Venture capitalist
# Legal mediator
# Financial analyst
# Economist
# College professor: philosophy, economics
# Musician
# Intellectual property attorney
# Web site designer
# Investigator
# Strategic planner
# Neurologist
# Pharmaceutical researcher
# Network integration specialist

Wow. Kinda scary as I've been or am a: philosophy grad and almost went to grad school to teach, a guitarist, web designer/web site builder, reporter (i.e. investigator), IT consultant and a self-proclaimed computer geek.

Still, I've not found any career or job that's made me truly happy and keptme motivated... :(

DevRock

17 Nov 2005, 07:57 PM

I haven't yet encountered a job I found enjoyable for the long-term. For me, it's not so much the specifics of the actual work I do (although that's obviously important), but the things that working entails (the hours, time off, commuting, bosses, rules and regulations, etc). I can find myself truly enjoying the work and yet not able to continue with the job due to the "side-effects".

Man, you must be my long lost twin... :duel:

DevRock

17 Nov 2005, 08:06 PM

Nice list minus one in favored and disfavored:

in favored, I dont think an INTP would ever want to be a computer repair man

Not true at all. It's one of my favorite things, repairing computers. Granted, that entails software troubleshooting and whatnot...

DevRock

17 Nov 2005, 08:09 PM

Just curious, has anyone ever worked at an IT Help Desk? I did crisis intervention for a suicide hotline many years ago (part time job). I enjoyed the keeping busy, but I have become burned out in handling people problems. I thought seriously about working a Help Desk, however most of my experience has been in specialized areas of employment/hr. Can someone give me the pros and cons of doing Help Desk work?

Help desk can be a fucking nightmare. The problem is that IT guys and INTPs have little patience for those people who just can't "get it" when it comes to computers. I've been there and sill am there for the most part. But help desk phone support is the worst of the worst. To me, computers seem to simple and when someone can't figure out how to do what I think are simple things, I tend to get really impatient with the person.

Nighthawk

17 Nov 2005, 08:35 PM

Help desk can be a fucking nightmare. The problem is that IT guys and INTPs have little patience for those people who just can't "get it" when it comes to computers. I've been there and sill am there for the most part. But help desk phone support is the worst of the worst. To me, computers seem to simple and when someone can't figure out how to do what I think are simple things, I tend to get really impatient with the person.
I enthusiastically concur. I'm responsible for 2nd level software support during 25% of the day. I loathe that part of my job. Some people cannot comprehend even the most simple concepts ... like scrolling down to see the rest of the information in a table ... instead, they call the help desk immediately to say that their information is "missing." The only thing that is "missing" is the grey matter between their ears. I have come very close to quitting my job several times just because of these occasional 2-hour periods.

DevRock

18 Nov 2005, 07:01 PM

I enthusiastically concur. I'm responsible for 2nd level software support during 25% of the day. I loathe that part of my job. Some people cannot comprehend even the most simple concepts ... like scrolling down to see the rest of the information in a table ... instead, they call the help desk immediately to say that their information is "missing." The only thing that is "missing" is the grey matter between their ears. I have come very close to quitting my job several times just because of these occasional 2-hour periods.

At my first IT job, I worked for a small magazine publisher. One woman, who was one of the most annoying people I've ever met, had been a writer for, oh, about 20 years. She was nearly responsible for me killingher. The topper was when she needed me to explain how to set margins in MS Word. Reminder, she's been a writer for two decades! This was a weekly occurrance. :banned:

Nighthawk

18 Nov 2005, 07:50 PM

Reminder, she's been a writer for two decades! This was a weekly occurrance. :banned:
If there is one thing more annoying than explaining something to a person who should have the expertise to know it already ... its having to explain that same thing over and over again every day/week.

s0978

18 Nov 2005, 09:38 PM

Wow. Kinda scary as I've been or am a: philosophy grad and almost went to grad school to teach, a guitarist, web designer/web site builder, reporter (i.e. investigator), IT consultant and a self-proclaimed computer geek.

Still, I've not found any career or job that's made me truly happy and keptme motivated... :(I found out about MBTI and stumbled onto INTPC trying to figure out what the ideal career for me might be. At the time, I felt fairly obsessive and thought nothing could be more important to think very carefully and deliberately about. Since then, in part from talking with all you wise people (special thanks to jjt and factsdontmatter) I have had a major attitude shift about it all, and I am much happier for it.

I'm learning to be comfortable pursuing whatever fascinates at any given time, and as an INTP, I'll expect the focus of exploration to change and evolve, a lot. But moreover, I trust that I'll be able to synthesize all the diverse skills and experience with time. I think if there's something most of us do quite well, it's synthesis. (Well, I don't really know about you all, but I rock.)

While I can't quite see what the culmination is going to look like, I'm choosing to take heart that at the very least, my career will have been totally unique to me and my life, and that no one else could have done it. Plus, if you know where it's going, is it really worth doing?

:)

Elizabeth B

18 Nov 2005, 09:46 PM

Plus, if you know where it's going, is it really worth doing?

The trap of prescience.

I think we're especially prone to it as INTPs. We're happier when our futures are wide open.

DevRock

18 Nov 2005, 09:54 PM

s0978

18 Nov 2005, 09:54 PM

Regarding the nightmares of working a Help Desk, my favorite schtick became something like: "Okay, I really want to help you. But I don't have a psychic connection with your computer. I know you're frustrated, but if we're going to solve the problem, you have to help me help you. I need to know what program, what build, what OS, exactly what the error messages are, yes, even down to the string of numbers. That's the error code. They don't mean anything to you, but I bet I can find them in my database. Oh, no, my database is not some secret knowledge base only I have access to, you could search it too..."

s0978

18 Nov 2005, 10:13 PM

I guess the only problem with pursuing what feels rigth at the time can scare away most employers. I've run into that recently. Someone looks at my resume and says "OK, so this guy has had 3 jobs since 2000, computers, writing...What??"
Yeah, I know the feeling. But for me, a time came when I just couldn't worry about what some imaginary prospective employers were going to think anymore. I realized I was never going to stay happy working for someone who only wanted to hire cookie cutter type resumes anyway.

Not saying "this is the path of the INTP," I have no idea. It may not be full of brilliant promise like I imagine. Maybe I'll end up working at a McDonalds at some point. (No offense to garak.) But I think in a lot of our cases, there may be no real reason to feel so unsafe or insecure in the world, anxieties may stem from an improbable ideal of what a career is supposed to look like. And not improbable just for INTPs, actually. Isn't everybody switching around a lot more than they used to?

Nighthawk

18 Nov 2005, 10:58 PM

Isn't everybody switching around a lot more than they used to?Yes ... especially in many of the consulting fields ... but there are still plenty of SJ hiring managers who still don't get it. Don't let that stop you though. I still dream about taking your route.

sbw

18 Nov 2005, 11:07 PM

The trap of prescience.

I think we're especially prone to it as INTPs. We're happier when our futures are wide open.

aimless retiree is a career choice that has made me very happy.

Scott

25fd

5 Mar 2006, 05:55 PM

Pooja

5 Mar 2006, 07:04 PM

I'm currently studying to be a pathologist (it requires an MD), but seems perfectly suited for the INTP personality (only a little people interaction, science-related, and you basically just have to use the evidence to form a theory. You set your own hours, and the work is always changing)...the downside is, that now I'm having to study subjects like orgo and biochem... which require a lot of "J"-like diligence

Geoff

5 Mar 2006, 08:23 PM

Once someone finds a workplace, they will tend to gravitate towards a role that uses their skills. So, to take Pooja's example, someone who likes to run things and organise people will tend to gravitate towards a middle management pathologist role, organising rotas etc and not actually *doing* pathology.

The INTP therefore is most likely to gain some contentment by finding a role that fits the skillset. So, I work in a firm of accountants. Sounds like a disaster, right? Attention to detail, rules, the home of the ISTJ. No room for flexibility, the non conformer. Wrong... over time I have found my niche. I am a creative, problem solving tax adviser. I help people solve problems, I am often found playing with a flip chart and a blank piece of paper playing with ideas. I build up a body of knowledge on small scientific rules of the trade (guru INTP status?). I am disruptive and non-ISTJ, but they need me for what I bring. I work my own hours, often at home, or in the office. When inspired I work late, when uninspired I barely am present. It is just who I am. I would urge other INTP (or maybe similar types.. I might be ENTP) not to discount any one profession, just to try and find a way to use your preferences in a way that can succeed.

-Geoff

25fd

5 Mar 2006, 09:40 PM

Let me start by saying that I do not mean disrespect to anyone.

The NT qualities are mind blowing. In a few words, it is the NT that took the human race from living in the bushes into what it is right now. Merely, adapting and finding a niche it is the minimum any NT can do. But the MBTI deals only with preferences it does not measure/predict performance nor motivation. One needs to add those into the equation.
You do not adapt to someone’s style, you create your own system and have others adapt to it.
For instance, as an INTP you can create/design the system but you can’t build it, or deal efficiently with human/social issues, or you can’t sell/market. No problem, you learn as much as you can about it and HIRE (or associate with) others that do it better than you. The world is full of smart people with a lot of schooling (PHD level) that are dying to get a job.

An extract from an INTP description:

“INTPs value knowledge above all else. Their minds are constantly working to generate new theories, or to prove or disprove existing theories. They approach problems and theories with enthusiasm and skepticism, ignoring existing rules and opinions and defining their own approach to the resolution. They seek patterns and logical explanations for anything that interests them. They're usually extremely bright, and able to be objectively critical in their analysis.

The INTP is usually very independent, unconventional, and original. They are not likely to place much value on traditional goals such as popularity and security. They usually have complex characters, and may tend to be restless and temperamental. They are strongly ingenious, and have unconventional thought patterns which allows them to analyze ideas in new ways. Consequently, a lot of scientific breakthroughs in the world have been made by the INTP.
The INTP is at his best when he can work on his theories independently. When given an environment which supports his creative genius and possible eccentricity, the INTP can accomplish truly remarkable things. These are the pioneers of new thoughts in our society.”

Can one ask for more?

Nighthawk

6 Mar 2006, 02:10 AM

No problem, you learn as much as you can about it and HIRE (or associate with) others that do it better than you.

This one has always been the sticking point for me. The instant I hire somebody, I become a manager and have to deal with people issues, instead of what I love doing. ... at least that is the way it has worked out during my small ventures into my own businesses.

I do agree with your points however ... just trying to find a way to make them work for me.

Edmond Zedo

6 Mar 2006, 02:19 AM

25fd

6 Mar 2006, 03:19 AM

This one has always been the sticking point for me. The instant I hire somebody, I become a manager and have to deal with people issues, instead of what I love doing. ... at least that is the way it has worked out during my small ventures into my own businesses.

I do agree with your points however ... just trying to find a way to make them work for me.

Thanks for reading my post. You hire a manager to deal with the people issues. If that is too expensive then give that manager more than just a salary, some extra incentive. Use your imagination. At least that is what I plan on doing. We just need a little J closure to get it moving.

Let me tell this story. When I moved to Canada I had to do some odd jobs to survive until I learned about how things work in Canada and, of course, the language. I worked for a small night club as a bartender. I wanted to kill two birds with one stone make a buck and learn some small talk. (Small talk is a tough one for an INTP).The owner was doing just that. He still owns the bar (and a spa) but he runs them from behind the scenes. He has a manager that deals with all the people problems. Mind you, I didn’t even know who the owner was for a few months. He’s company invested some money in a house and the manager lives in half the house (for free I believe), he rents the other half and the manager deals with the tenants as well. He would come in the bar when it was closed count the money and do some other things and leave before the bar would open. The manager did the hiring, the dealing with customers etc. Although he (the owner) is not rich he’s happy he left his geography high school teaching job twenty years ago.

PS. While editing this post Edmond Zedo already posted saying the same thing. Nevertheless less, I am still posting it.

Nighthawk

6 Mar 2006, 03:25 AM

Not a bad idea at all. It certainly takes the edge off of the people issues.

Mr. Beef

6 Mar 2006, 08:20 AM

95 36 15

INThoughtPolice

6 Mar 2006, 09:09 AM

I am a college student considering a career as an economist, any thoughts?

altblue

6 Mar 2006, 03:23 PM

I am a college student considering a career as an economist, any thoughts?

That's nice, I've considered it as well. But you'll need at least a master's degree, preferably Ph.D. And there really aren't that many jobs out there for economists, compared to like say, accounting/finance. What kind of work do you want to do and where do you want to work? Government, international organizations, private firms?

bergenski

6 Mar 2006, 03:34 PM

I think the best an INTP can hope for is to not mind a job during normal work times, and only enjoy it when one gets his or her paycheck.

That sounds right, for me at least...I find the concept of a job to be most off-putting...

Stillwater

6 Mar 2006, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by coffeezombie
I think the best an INTP can hope for is to not mind a job during normal work times, and only enjoy it when one gets his or her paycheck.

There is something to be said for having a personal identity separate from your work. Its funny when someone asks "what do you do?" we respond with how we make money, rather than what we really like to do. Our personal interests seem more relevant. My father taught me this. He considers himself a guitar player who just happens to work at a dull clerical job to pay the bills. My grandfather was self employed as a professional graphic artist his entire life. I had a strong interest in art as a young person. He told me if I truly love art, don't do it for a living, do it for yourself. That one really stuck.

Reminds me of a John Prine song:

If I could make my living going fishing
Then I would make my living with a line and pole
Put food on the table pay the money to the landlord
Buy some working clothes
Cause I ain't making money going fishing Like I'm paid at the factory
If I could pay all these bills with my guitar
Then I would pay these bills with some rock and roll
Put food on the table pay the money to the landlord
Buy some working clothes
Cause I ain't making money playing guitar Like I'm paid at the factory

Chorus:
Now if I could (if I could)
Then I would (then I would)
Make money doing something that I love
I'd thank my lucky stars above
If I could just get by loving you dear
Then I would just get by making love to you
Put food on the table pay the money to the landlord
Buy some working clothes
Cause I ain't making money making love
Like I'm paid at the factory

I do think its important to find work that doesn't over stress you or otherwise make you crazy. I still haven't given up on finding the best career fit. No matter what, I'll always keep one foot where my heart is.

Magajy

6 Mar 2006, 05:30 PM

Im my opinion this are the jobs that 90% of us here would probably say would suite them:

analyst (of all sorts)
designer (of all sorts)

jobs that more like 50% of us would agree would be good jobs for us:

programmer
teacher (of all sorts)
researcher

Anything more specific I think would have a much lower than 50% appeal.

Anyone else want to try to make their opinion of an analagous list?

Sleep and wake up rich. Then indulge in a life of ease and procastination.

INThoughtPolice

8 Mar 2006, 03:18 AM

That's nice, I've considered it as well. But you'll need at least a master's degree, preferably Ph.D. And there really aren't that many jobs out there for economists, compared to like say, accounting/finance. What kind of work do you want to do and where do you want to work? Government, international organizations, private firms?
Government/International organizations.

Ella

8 Mar 2006, 04:04 AM

I can't find my copy of "Gifts Differing," but I'm pretty sure Isabel Briggs Myers says in it she is an INFP, not an INFJ. This link (http://www.capt.org/mbti-assessment/isabel-myers.htm) says so as well.

Ferrus

17 Mar 2006, 03:43 AM

I like variety and I like a bit of competition and politics (maybe I'm more of a J?), but I've realised most jobs suck as this as highlighted.

My aim now is as a lawyer in a small high street firm. It seems the best match for the sort of qualifications/skills I have... plus you get to manage your own caseload at the smaller level, research the issue yourself, go to court and figure out a way of presenting a case. Seems fine to me, plus the fact I know a specialist language and the social respect that comes from being a professional appeals to me greatly.

sbw

17 Mar 2006, 05:42 AM

and the social respect that comes from being a professional appeals to me greatly.

really? what's that like?

Scott

dubbeltop

19 Mar 2006, 05:32 PM

this is the question ive been looking for.Im smart now i want to find a job which uses my brain and still somehow keeps me happy when i get home.

dubbeltop

19 Mar 2006, 05:39 PM

maybe start a massage parlor or something with animals. Animals dont care who you are as long as youre nice to them(LOLOLOLO). I think but thats personal that INTP could become excellent detectives provided sum tough ass dirty harry type is their partner.brains and balls works for me.

Nils

30 Mar 2006, 04:43 PM

Anyone in R&D? That seems like it may be fun. Any idea how to get into R&D?

FWIW Right now I am trying to finish an MBA, I assume it'll help. <_<

Thanks.

Nighthawk

30 Mar 2006, 07:27 PM

Anyone in R&D? That seems like it may be fun. Any idea how to get into R&D?

FWIW Right now I am trying to finish an MBA, I assume it'll help. <_<

Thanks.

I've worked software and hardware R&D for short periods of time in a few organiztions. It was always the first function cut during budget drawdowns, layoffs, etc. It would be nice to find a place that specializes in R&D, but I'm afraid more and more of those are being offshored.

Nils

30 Mar 2006, 08:02 PM

I've worked software and hardware R&D for short periods of time in a few organiztions. It was always the first function cut during budget drawdowns, layoffs, etc. It would be nice to find a place that specializes in R&D, but I'm afraid more and more of those are being offshored.

D'oh. :banghead:

I guess I am forced to become a professor.

It still baffles me how we, typically, can be smarter than 98% of the people yet can't seem to earn a dime...:mad:

Then again it is my fault for being an INTP and having to think about stuff all day that matters to nobody but myself. Underachieving back in school, HATING sales. Still, I should be able to figure out how to earn a decent income ethically (no mortgage companies, storm chasering etc)...

Nighthawk

30 Mar 2006, 08:40 PM

D'oh. :banghead:

I guess I am forced to become a professor.

...

Hehe ... professor is actually on my dream job list. If I wasn't so addicted to my paycheck, I'd go back to grad school for a PhD. (assuming, of course, that I could pass the entrance exam)

tinribz

30 Mar 2006, 08:50 PM

How about passive sales like copy writing for direct marketing, it is creative and sort of problem solving?

You can choose from loadsa products and it is essentually a numbers game and you can be a one man band.

I'm thinking of doing it for web design, which is all about marketing a product these days rather than technical skills.

e.g.

0.5% response rate;

-£200 per mailing to 400 customers

+ £200 from intial setup fees;

Profit = £9.99 / month for next few years.

1000 customers = £9990 / month.

You get the idea.

Nils

30 Mar 2006, 08:57 PM

How about passive sales like copy writing for direct marketing

What is copy writing for direct marketing? :unsure:

Nils

30 Mar 2006, 09:01 PM

Hehe ... professor is actually on my dream job list. If I wasn't so addicted to my paycheck, I'd go back to grad school for a PhD. (assuming, of course, that I could pass the entrance exam)

My younger brother (Physics PhD) just became a professor last year. He likes it.

tinribz

30 Mar 2006, 09:06 PM

What is copy writing for direct marketing? :unsure:

You know like writing junk mail.

Or those "They all laughed when I sat down at the piano, but then I started to play..." direct response mail order ads.

The idea is you write an ad and publish it local to see what response to you get.

If it's good you take it National. Get 50k replies you are set-up!

You can use out sourced mail order houses, go affiliate whatever. The web has opened a whole new medium obviously. Or try a new spin on spam, you wouldn't get it if it wasn't profitable. Read about some guy made a fortune selling failed books, all he did was change their titles.

It is a real artform believe it or not. Results measurable in $$$.

Park

25 Apr 2006, 01:11 AM

I think futurology is tailormade for INTPs.

I used to work for a trendforecasting agency when I was younger.
Picking up trends, allways being open to new possibilities, allways moving in new directions.

In the short period I've known this board I've read so many "what if" posts. INTPs are born to play around with wild cards. What if a medication against age becomes a reality within the next 50 years?

I can't think of any other profile who would be as suitable as INTPs to follow up on ideas like these, twist and turn every aspect - it comes natural.

E_Smith

2 May 2006, 10:47 PM

I am thinking of attending law school next year. I have read on other threads that INTP is not a great fit for practicing law (although I have seen stats that 10% of lawyers are INTP, w/ the highest percentage for ISTJ at something like 17%). However, I think IP might be an ideal area of practice for INTPs. Constantly learning new technology/systems and applying the law to them... then move on to the next project. Lots of analysis but likely not lots of practical application.

dziner

3 May 2006, 06:10 AM

Architectonic

3 May 2006, 07:19 AM

Some of us might have ethical objections against IP law though....

Pooja

3 May 2006, 07:24 AM

Some of us might have ethical objections against IP law though....

Ethics shmethics- I'm looking into IP law as well. I'm going to be taking the LSATs next year.

gman13

3 May 2006, 08:09 PM

What's unethical about IP law?

sbw

3 May 2006, 08:43 PM

What's unethical about IP law?

the being a lawyer part.

Scott

MacGuffin

3 May 2006, 09:16 PM

Some commie-lovers think "ideas" cannot be owned.

E_Smith

3 May 2006, 10:03 PM

I am thinking of IP law too. Although I don't want to be a lawyer, I plan to attend law school for a diploma in IP law, and be a patent agent, as I have an engineering background.

I think the previous discussions about law on this forum have achieved a consensus that IP law, appellate work, and paralegal can be at least semi-enjoyed by INTPs.

The things which I am afraid of are --continuous deadlines (too J), attention to detail (too S), and communication/negotiation with government officials (too E).

Well did you know that you don't need a law degree to be a patent agent? I think you just need to pass the Patent Bar Exam. In fact I applied to take the exam a couple years ago and was accepted, although I never actually took it (nice follow through). I figured there was no real point in being a patent agent w/ limited salary and growth potential, might as well be an engineer instead.

E_Smith

3 May 2006, 10:30 PM

The things which I am afraid of are --continuous deadlines (too J), attention to detail (too S), and communication/negotiation with government officials (too E).

I agree especially with continuous deadlines, and I don't know how that pertains to IP Law. The other two I feel can be conquered, and I'm guessing the amount of E time is limited to brief periods. I'm more concerned with getting through law school w/ good grades because I am a serious slacker.

MacGuffin

3 May 2006, 10:48 PM

Well did you know that you don't need a law degree to be a patent agent? I think you just need to pass the Patent Bar Exam. In fact I applied to take the exam a couple years ago and was accepted, although I never actually took it (nice follow through). I figured there was no real point in being a patent agent w/ limited salary and growth potential, might as well be an engineer instead.
Probably. Plus the pass rate for the Patent Bar Exam is usually well below 50%.

aklight

3 May 2006, 11:48 PM

The only thing that appeals to me is running my own business, or being an inventor or something. As for a normal job, umm, maybe a salesman.

dziner

4 May 2006, 08:20 AM

Well did you know that you don't need a law degree to be a patent agent? I think you just need to pass the Patent Bar Exam.

I know that. I thought it would be easy to break into the job market with some formal education in law.

I figured there was no real point in being a patent agent w/ limited salary and growth potential, might as well be an engineer instead.

Is it? I thought patent agents make a good money. As far as growth potential is concerned, I am not interested in management.

I am wondering what else should I do. I hated engineering. I hate my current job of technical writing (although I enjoy writing). I contemplated moving to 'IT' for a while, but starting a career all over again as a programmer doesn't appeal to me. Law seems closer to science and what else other than IP law would suit INTP?

Architectonic

4 May 2006, 08:29 AM

Some libertarians think "ideas" cannot be owned because they don't believe that "ideas" are inherently scarce.

No, no, its because they'd happen to be a Lawyer!

E_Smith

4 May 2006, 03:42 PM

I know that. I thought it would be easy to break into the job market with some formal education in law.

Is it? I thought patent agents make a good money. As far as growth potential is concerned, I am not interested in management.

I am wondering what else should I do. I hated engineering. I hate my current job of technical writing (although I enjoy writing). I contemplated moving to 'IT' for a while, but starting a career all over again as a programmer doesn't appeal to me. Law seems closer to science and what else other than IP law would suit INTP?

I'm not sure. Some have said appellate law. What kind of engineering did you do? Is there some other area within your engineering field that you might like and could easily transfer into?

I'm dealing with the same situation... I got accepted to a couple good law schools but I'm considering not going. I think you shouldn't make that investment unless you are absolutely certain you want to practice law. And if you want to work in IP, likely you will have to get a big firm job for awhile, assuming you finish high enough in your class, and work heavy hours for a few years learning the ropes (with lots of 'J' to deal with). If you don't enjoy the law school experience, you might be talking 7 years of sacrifice to get to the point where you like your job.

As far as patent agents, I think they make in the realm of $50-80K.