Microwaves

[Dolphin]

I want to increase my understanding of how microwaves work, especially on living tissue. I was thinking on the lines of a human ( already dead ). What would happen to the body on the inside as well as on the outside? Is it true that the more water inside the object the faster it heats up? How does blood react inside a microwave? What else do you know about microwaves? If you stand by one while it’s going will you get radiation poisoning or something? Thanks.

[Hexchild]

My microwave doesn't work. A couple of days ago apparently it decided to cease with the heating of food and subsequently just pretend to be doing so.

[Dolphin]

My microwave doesn't work. A couple of days ago apparently it decided to cease with the heating of food and subsequently just pretend to be doing so. Would it be better to fix it? And how would you go about fixing it?

Or would it be better to buy a new one?

Some microwaves have different settings make sure that it is on "HIGH" so that it can cook faster. May'be that would help?

[headfonez]

Do you like your microwave?

[Dolphin]

My microwave talks to me. First it makes popping noises then it beeps then it gives me popcorn. I love my microwave.

Is popcorn better cooked in a microwave or on a stove top?

[Dolphin]

Seriously though, what chemically is going on while popcorn is in the microwave?

[seba]

well the microwave oven excites water molecules with the frequency of 2450 MHz.
the highest absorbtion of water is around 13 GHz ... at least i think, i forgot.

[Dolphin]

So there is in fact water inside popcorn?

What effects can 2450 MHz have on the skin? Can it melt hair?

[Bugeater]

I want to increase my understanding of how microwaves work, especially on living tissue. I was thinking on the lines of a human ( already dead ). What would happen to the body on the inside as well as on the outside? Is it true that the more water inside the object the faster it heats up? How does blood react inside a microwave? What else do you know about microwaves? If you stand by one while it’s going will you get radiation poisoning or something? Thanks.
There was an episode of MythBusters that tested out a lot of microwave myths. Microwaves cook from the outside in, so if you wanted to use it on a dead human, you'd have to leave it in there for a very large amount of time to actually cook the inside as well. Microwaving metal will not cause your microwave to explode. And if you superheat water (heat it beyond it's boiling point), when you take it out of the microwave and disturb the surface by trying to drink it or dropping something in it, it'll explode in your face. That one was pretty awesome. I don't know if water inside an object heats it up any faster and I'm guessing blood would just boil when microwaved. And I think the radiation thing is also false.

[Dolphin]

There was an episode of MythBusters that tested out a lot of microwave myths. Microwaves cook from the outside in, so if you wanted to use it on a dead human, you'd have to leave it in there for a very large amount of time to actually cook the inside as well. Microwaving metal will not cause your microwave to explode. And if you superheat water (heat it beyond it's boiling point), when you take it out of the microwave and disturb the surface by trying to drink it or dropping something in it, it'll explode in your face. That one was pretty awesome. I don't know if water inside an object heats it up any faster and I'm guessing blood would just boil when microwaved. And I think the radiation thing is also false.
Thank you Bugeater. The superheated water thing sounds pretty neat http://forums.intpcentral.com/images/smilies/smile.gif.
So the radiation thing is a myth? So I can sit in front of the tv or microwave for few years and I won't get cancer or anything?

Why do people start such myths anyways? To confuse the masses?

[seba]

well the most voulnerable part are the eyes. microwave oven is shilded and tv emits x-rays not microwaves.

[Dolphin]

well the most voulnerable part are the eyes. microwave oven is shilded and tv emits x-rays not microwaves.
How far do the x-rays travel until they can be considered safe do you know?

If I sat in front of the computer all day long what damage is it going to cause my eyes?

[athman]

Its another one of the great urban myths ... "The cat was wet so I put it in the microwave to dry off."

I grew up in the 70's and my brother conducted a range of scientific experiments proving conclusively that cats do fit in washing machines, spin dryers and refrigerators. They can also be hung on clothes lines. Luckily for the cat population domestic microwaves weren't around then.8O

[seba]

How far do the x-rays travel until they can be considered safe do you know?

If I sat in front of the computer all day long what damage is it going to cause my eyes?

well, there is the protecting leaded glass, so only a little fraction of them escape from it. but i was saying for microwaves (eyes thing), x-rays are a tottaly different thing, they destroy chemical bonds.

[Dolphin]

Its another one of the great urban myths ... "The cat was wet so I put it in the microwave to dry off."

I grew up in the 70's and my brother conducted a range of scientific experiments proving conclusively that cats do fit in washing machines, spin dryers and refrigerators. They can also be hung on clothes lines. Luckily for the cat population domestic microwaves weren't around then.8O I wouldn't know anything about that, nor would I know about them being put in toilets or taking showers instead of baths. Such things are horrible, horrible I say.

All the things that have been done in the name of science. They should stop with the animal cruelty.

[Dolphin]

well, there is the protecting leaded glass, so only a little fraction of them escape from it. but i was saying for microwaves (eyes thing), x-rays are a tottaly different thing, they destroy chemical bonds.
Okay, that makes sense.

[Enigma]

So there is in fact water inside popcorn?


Popcorn is a type of flint (indian) corn. It's kernels have a very hard outer shell with a hard starchy inside. It is dried to a moisture level of 13.5% - the optimum moisture content for good popping. For those who have always wanted to know.

[Sue Denim]

Well, if you wanted to know about microwaves, you sure came to the right place.

[Claverhouse]

Well, if you wanted to know about microwaves, you sure came to the right place.
Do you really think so ? If I wanted scientific info I'd look around google before coming here...

Anti:

http://www.laleva.cc/environment/microwave.html

http://www.lessemf.com/mw-oven.html

Pro:

http://www.arpansa.gov.au/is_mwave.htm

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/consumer/microwave.html

The FDA site is very dismissive of all dangers, including radiation. But then they seem quite hearty generally about consumer safety. Not that I'd suggest they were in the pocket of the Business Lobby or anything.

Still, I would certainly suggest that those who dismiss the dangers poke around the appliance with an old screwdriver. Don't forget to leave the juice running and stand in a tub of water.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

From the Laleva site:

1). Continually eating food processed from a microwave oven causes long term - permanent - brain damage by "shorting out"
electrical impulses in the brain [de-polarizing or de-magnetizing the brain tissue].

2). The human body cannot metabolize [break down] the unknown by-products created in microwaved food.

3). Male and female hormone production is shut down and/or altered by continually eating microwaved foods.

4). The effects of microwaved food by-products are residual [long term, permanent] within the human body.

5). Minerals, vitamins, and nutrients of all microwaved food is reduced or altered so that the human body gets little or no benefit, or the human body absorbs altered compounds that cannot be broken down.

6). The minerals in vegetables are altered into cancerous free radicals when cooked in microwave ovens.

7). Microwaved foods cause stomach and intestinal cancerous growths [tumors]. This may explain the rapidly increased rate of
colon cancer in America.

8). The prolonged eating of microwaved foods causes cancerous cells to increase in human blood.

9). Continual ingestion of microwaved food causes immune system deficiencies through lymph gland and blood serum alterations.

10). Eating microwaved food causes loss of memory, concentration, emotional instability, and a decrease of intelligence.

[Wiki]

Holy crap. I wish some one woulda put a surgeon general warning on my microwave. Memory loss? Say it isnt so!
All this typing is making me want a burrito....

[Claverhouse]

Oh and along with postcodes and a lot else guess who invented the things ?







Who invented microwave ovens?



The Nazis, for use in their mobile support operations, originally developed microwave "radiomissor" cooking ovens to be used for the invasion of Russia. By being able to utilize electronic equipment for preparation of meals on a mass scale, the logistical problem of cooking fuels would have been eliminated, as well as the convenience of producing edible products in a greatly reduced time-factor.

After the war, the Allies discovered medical research done by the Germans on microwave ovens. These documents, along with some working microwave ovens, were transferred to the United States War Department and classified for reference and "further scientific investigation." The Russians had also retrieved some microwave ovens and now have thorough research on their biological effects. As a result, their use was outlawed in the Soviet Union. The Soviets issued an international warning on the health hazards, both biological and environmental, of microwave ovens and similar frequency electronic devices.
Although as I mentioned elsewhere, the main use was for the purpose of killing typhus-bearing lice --- which gives one a lot of confidence in their safety --- but the nazis being unbearable pragmatists decided to use them not for the poor bloody troops fighting for them, but to protect their slaves in the camps who were making money for them. Not something I'd forgive if I was dying of typhus on the OstFront.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Wiki]

Come to think of it, it makes an egg look like nothing Ive ever seen. *sigh * another thing to add to my bad habits list.

[Sue Denim]

Do you really think so ?
Perhaps my irony was too subtle...

[Claverhouse]

You're a Yank: everyone knows Yanks have no sense of irony.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Claverhouse]

And actually,


And if you superheat water (heat it beyond it's boiling point), when you take it out of the microwave and disturb the surface by trying to drink it or dropping something in it, it'll explode in your face. That one was pretty awesome.
I'll remember that whenever I decide to drink water heated beyond boiling-point.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Blue]

I think the above answers your question about who starts these rumors.
For those with defective sarcasm detection almost all of what our dear Claverhouse said is untrue I'm afraid. As entertaining as that dry English wit is.

Electromagnetic phenomina (Visible light, infared, radio, x-rays, microwave, ect.) falls along the electromagnetic spectrum. Visible light being a small fraction of it. The sort of radiation your thinking of is ionizing radiation, that is radiation that can displace electrons from molecules creating ions. The dangerous stuff from x-rays, dirty bombs and nuclear reactors. The penetration distance depends on the type of ionizing radiation. Alpha, beta, gamma, or x rays. With Alpha being stopped by a piece of paper up to x-rays requiring a good thickness of lead or other dense metal. Your microwave doesn't make ionizing radiation. Hair does not melt, it burns. Microwaves can cook inside objects in a limited degree. The extremely dangerous thing about magnatrons (the part of the microwave making microwaves) when removed and run outside the microwave (something that should not be done) is that the frequency is too high for your nerves to detect so you can effectivly cook your organs and or other organic bits without realizing it. While not likely to cause an explosion, running your microwave empty or with metal can reflect microwaves back into the magnatron reducing it's lifespan or effectivly destroying it.
http://space.mit.edu/CSR/outreach/MULTILING/EMspectrum00.gif

Did I miss anything?

+Blue

[Dolphin]

It has come to my attention that some people need me to explain why I started this thread ( because they think I am stupid which is at least for now true but wasn’t always the case ).

Sorry if I am delusional. I was under the utilitarian moral theory when I posted.

Sure I could of looked up the info on my own, then be selfish and keep it to myself.

Sure I could of looked up the info and then made a report and shared it with everyone, but I figured few people would care and I’m too lazy to do the work myself.

So I decided to get others involved, not only learn about microwaves myself but perhaps get others to learn about them too. Plus people might know things that I might not of found by myself.

INTP’s are always complaining about not being able to find jobs. But I think they make excellent encyclopedias ( I mean that in a good way ).

Learning is fun for most INTP’s otherwise what is the point of thinking?

Always underestimated well that’s the price for being lazy and wanting to be happy…

To be happy is to be stupid, when I realized this I chose to be happy rather than depressed all the time.

Thank you all for the information and your hard work for getting it. I hope everyone has learned? I do good?

[Blue]

It has come to my attention that you were writing that at the same time as myself.

Don't mind others Dolphin, it's just that you do have a certain smell of inexperiance. Which may be preferably to the smell of cold cynicism likely to replace it.

+Blue

[PsiKik]

I don't like microwaved food.
I did read that its not a good idea to heat up dairy products in a microwave as
they get broken down into all sorts of nasty stuff.

[Dunearhp]

As mentioned, microwaves are not an ionizing radiation, they are simply Transverse ElectroMagnetic waves, the same as light. A microwave oven works by exciting polar molecules with a resonant frequency close to 2.45 GHz (like little compass needles spinning in the oscillating magnetic field). Water is one such molecule (the reason that frequency is used. Most food contains a lot of water). There are probably many other molecules with a similar resonant frequency that could also be excited.

The danger of ionizing radiation (such as that given off by radioactive materials), and high frequency Electromagnetic radiation (Ultra Violet, X-Rays, Gamma Rays), is that they can hit and shatter single molecules like DNA or proteins. This can cause severe cellular damage (genetic, from created toxins, or in high exposure cases the equivalent of being riddled with machine gun fire) leading to cancer, radiation poisoning etc.

Microwaves instead have the capacity to heat the water in cells which may damage molecules that are extremely sensitive to temperature, possibly releasing toxins. I am not sure if there is any recorded evidence of this sort of damage occuring from low power exposure such as that from mobile phones or microwave oven leakage.

At high power levels it is essentially the same as being cooked.

The whole idea of microwaves "cooking from the inside" comes from the fact that the waves will penetrate part way into the food. How far they penetrate depends on the wavelength of the microwaves (about 12 cm in microwave ovens) and the magnetic permeability of the food. Generally food will be heated up to a depth of 1 to 4 cm. The center is then heated by thermal conduction from the outer layer.

[PsiKik]

Microwaved cat case closed due to lack of evidence.


The cat, named Tango, was killed in May by being cooked alive in a microwave oven belonging to students at the university's Pinewood residence.

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1811727,00.html

[Claverhouse]

Microwaved cat case closed due to lack of evidence.



http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1811727,00.html Various links from that:



The family of Nareen Rambharren, chief of security services on the campus, last saw Tango on Sunday night when she came trotting up to them on their arrival at their campus flat. On Monday morning, one of the security guards came to them, looking for a box. A cleaner had discovered the dead cat in a microwave oven in the communal kitchen.

Fivaz mentioned that the SPCA had received several anonymous complaints.
Professor Kobus Visser of the physics department at the University of Stellenbosch said that although the cat would have died within minutes in the microwave oven, it would have been an extremely painful death.

Microwaves are a kind of electromagnetic wave which affects polar molecules such as water. They allow the molecules to release energy and thus become heated.

Body tissue might explode

Visser said: "Like a human, a cat's body is about 80 percent water. This means the nervous system would boil before death occurred."

Apart from external burns, the tissue in the body may explode because of the cooking process, said Visser.

Trevor Wills, dean of student affairs, said the university was doing everything in its power to bring the guilty parties to book.

According to Fivaz, cruelty to animals carries a penalty of a fine of up to R20 000 or two years' imprisonment.

Of the bat; an eye-for-an-eye. But by putting aside the thought of the cat frantically pawing at the glass to get out while cooking from inside and then trying to think rationally, an appropriate punishment would be their expulsion from the residence and institute as a whole, a few months community service at the SPCA as well as the maximum fine of R20 000 or two years each! Sounds fair, I also think that such gross disrespect for an animal's life means these people are probably capable of hurting fellow humans - some psychological help - definitely! - Richard
These people need serious help! I think, as punishment, they should be put in a microwave oven and be cooked. A R20 000 fine is nothing. Let's try to imagine the feeling of our blood and every other liquid in our bodies to heat up, never mind BOIL! Let's try to imagine our body tissue ripping apart and our organs exploding. What is R20k compared to this? This cat was a living, breathing animal. A Product of God. One of His creations that did not deserve such cruelty. - qabrahams

I don't want to make light of the deaths of Tango and Peanut. Tango was microwaved to death by university students taking a break from the usual university pastimes of raping, vomiting and plagiarising. Peanut was strangled and tossed into the garden at the Bluff yacht club in Durban.

It's truly horrible stuff, but there are going to be those people - misguided liberals and dog-lovers, for example - who are going to point out the usual South African paradox.

Which is, some of us show a lot more concern for a cat than we do for actual human beings, who are getting slaughtered in equally horrible ways all over South Africa.

Well, it would be best to eradicate the liberal fellow-travellers as well as the people who did this...


Claverhouse :ph34r:


Link on pet victims of Katrina (http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Hurricane/0,,2-10-1942_1766016,00.html).

[trendal]

I want to increase my understanding of how microwaves work, especially on living tissue. I was thinking on the lines of a human ( already dead ).

I suggest Google.

What would happen to the body on the inside as well as on the outside?

It would cook, like a peice of chicken in a microwave oven. Microwave ovens do not, as is commonly believed, "heat from the inside out" - they do heat from the outside-in, but microwaves penetrate and heat an inch or two into food whereas direct heat only heats the surface of the food. That's the main reason why microwave ovens cook faster, more of the food is being heated at any one time than in a conventional oven.

Is it true that the more water inside the object the faster it heats up?

To a point, yes. Microwaves only heat the water. If you stick a dry empty plate in your microwave oven it will not get hot at all (if you try this MAKE SURE you also place a cup of water in there, to absorb the microwave energy or you may damage your oven permanently). So things with more water in them turn more of the microwave energy into heat.

How does blood react inside a microwave?

Like any water-based liquid - it will get hot and boil.

What else do you know about microwaves? If you stand by one while it’s going will you get radiation poisoning or something? Thanks.

I'll answer the second part first, and the answer is NO. Microwaves are what is known as "non-ionizing" radiation, which in effect means they cannot cause cancer through any known process. Ionizing radiation can cause things it hits to become radioacive themselves - which is part of why they cause cancer - so if we used that type of energy to heat our food, the food would come out "hot" in more ways than one!

Microwaves are a form of light, on the low end of the scale for frequency. They are between radio-waves and infrared on the spectrum. A microwave oven works by converting electricity into microwave energy at a specific frequency (usually 2.45 GHz). Microwave energy causes water molecules to vibrate or spin around and "heat" is really just the vibrational energy of molecules so if the water molecules vibrate harder the water gets hot. This is why microwave ovens only heat wet things, and why they work so well to heat wet things. The microwave energy penetrates a few inches into the food (depending on the density - microwaves will lose half their power every 1" of pure water).

Microwave ovens use a device called a MASER to generate the microwaves, which is technically similar to a LASER in function (it means exactly the same thing as LASER, just replace "light" with "microwave"). Basically it's a hollow tube with ALL the air removed from it. At one end is a filament - like in a light bulb - which gives off electrons when heated. Along the tube are "vanes" which act as reflectors for the electrons. At the other end is an antenna which collects the microwave energy and then radiates it inside the oven cavity. Surrounding this whole tube are two VERY powerful magnets (you aren't likely to find more powerful magnets in any consumer product, except hard drives). The magnets cause the electrons that come off the filament to spiral around the tube, but the vanes reflect the electrons so that they also bounce back and forth. All this has to be tuned very precisely so that the end result is 2.4 GHz microwaves.

Don't ever try taking apart a microwave, unless you know what you are doing and are comfortable around LETHAL voltages. NEVER run a microwave with the outer shell removed, as it could leak microwaves heavily. There are also exposed electrical points (most of the chassis) that are around 5000V potential. There is a large 2500V+ capacitor that can hold a lethal charge for days after the microwave was last used (especially if it wasn't working properly when last used). There's some cool stuff inside, like the magnets and a big transformer, plus the capacitor can come in handy for other things, but microwave ovens are not something to play with. Many people have died.

[seba]

I'll answer the second part first, and the answer is NO. Microwaves are what is known as "non-ionizing" radiation, which in effect means they cannot cause cancer through any known process. Ionizing radiation can cause things it hits to become radioacive themselves - which is part of why they cause cancer - so if we used that type of energy to heat our food, the food would come out "hot" in more ways than one!

Microwaves can damage eyes and maybe the surface of the skin if there is enough power of course. But the microwave oven is shielded so no worries and the cell phones or WLAN have far too little power (i think about 1 W, WLAN 100 mW)



Microwave ovens use a device called a MASER to generate the microwaves, which is technically similar to a LASER in function (it means exactly the same thing as LASER, just replace "light" with "microwave"). Basically it's a hollow tube with ALL the air removed from it. At one end is a filament - like in a light bulb - which gives off electrons when heated. Along the tube are "vanes" which act as reflectors for the electrons. At the other end is an antenna which collects the microwave energy and then radiates it inside the oven cavity. Surrounding this whole tube are two VERY powerful magnets (you aren't likely to find more powerful magnets in any consumer product, except hard drives). The magnets cause the electrons that come off the filament to spiral around the tube, but the vanes reflect the electrons so that they also bounce back and forth. All this has to be tuned very precisely so that the end result is 2.4 GHz microwaves.

That's a magnetron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetron) not a maser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MASER).

[trendal]

That's a magnetron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetron) not a maser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MASER).

You're right, I got the two confused. Microwave ovens use a magnetron, not a maser.

[kuranes]

There's a "non-lethal" weaponized version of a microwave attack ready for crowds of Iraquis coming up. Called V-MADS or "active denial system" it is mounted on a truck.