opinions on Scientology?

[adamaw11]

This probably could have been posted in the psychology section, but anyway,
I'm wondering if there's anyone here with opinions on scientology at all?
I've been looking into it this year a bit, and have been finding there may be some good things in it. Currently I don't quite see it as a "religion" in the traditional sense, more just a way to help people deal with and overcome certain difficulties in life.

Any opinions? anyone had any personal experiences with it?



Edit: Just did a quick search on here, interesting, I still want responses though.

[Wiki]

Its all about seperating you from your money.

[Dunearhp]

www.xenu.net

L. Ron. Hubbard is not someone I want writing my scriptures.

What kind of religion makes you pay for access to the holy writings.

Edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

[Leftfield]

Stay away, as with many things, including religion there is good but including religion again there is either a) brain-washing b) a need for money to grow and c) does not provide a good enough answer...

Stick with whatever philosophy sticks with you, if it is by chance scientology, then so be it... I prefer to be always searching for the best logical answer, which will never happen. Existentialism is the best for me, so far, but I don't follow it like a religion, it's just good information to conceptualize upon.

[Blue]

This is as close to sure I get. Don't.

Less then a week ago I was walking into the local grocery store and passed a table out front with an odd metered device and books maned by two people. Due to previous research, as I realized they were scientologists I had to dampen a large smile forming on my face from breaking into laughter.

On my way out I decided that I was interested in their device so I talked to them and accepted their offer to give it a try. I was given two large wired metal soup can like cylinders to hold in each hand.


Scientologist1: "This is an e-meter. It detects mental stresses."

Me: "How does it work?"

Scientologist1: "The brain controls it."

Me: "Yes, but what are the mechanics of it? How does the brain control it."

Scientologist1: "Electricity."

Me: "How sensitive is the voltage meter?"

Scientologist1 "It's powered by an AA battery." (He might have said two.)

I look at him and Scientologist2 jumps in.

Scientologist2: "It's in milivolts."

Me: "Ah."

I touch the two cans together and the needle maxes out.

Me: "So It measures resistance?"

Scientologist2: "Yea."

Scientologist1: "Think of the biggest stresses in your life."

Me: "I don't really have any big stresses."

Scientologist1: "Well there must be some stress in your life."

I sit there and try remember something to worry about.

The indicator jumps.

Scientologist1: "There, what were you thinking about?"

Me: "A car accident."

Scientologist1: "Was that stressful?"

Me: "Yes."

He resumes watching the indicator.

Scientologist1: "There, what were you thinking about?"

Me: "A song I like." (What? I have ADD.)

Scientologist1:"Thats not stressful is it?"

Me: "No" (Song contains such phrases as "where the air is like liquid laughter")

I then notice that I can control the indicator needle by squeezing my hands slightly or leaning forward as I had been doing from the start.

I rock back and forth and the needle dances.

Me: "Look! Mental stress is the same as physical stress!" I say smiling.

The Scientologist is not amused.

Scientologist1 : "There, what were you thinking about then?"

Me: "Thats a secret."

Scientologist1: "What is it?"

Me: "If I told you, then it wouldn't be a secret; would it?"

A pause.

Scientologist1: "You can tell me, a stranger."

Me: "I already said I'm going to tell you."

Another pause.

They move over to the Dianetics book on the other side of the table.
Scientologist2: "Have you seen this book before?"
Me: "I've heard of it." (That is heard of the subject, as in psudoscience."
Scientologist2: "This shows you how to control your mind and get rid of stress. He gives me the book to read the quotes on the inside cover.

Me: "Chick Corea" I say pretending to be interested.

Scientologist1: "You know Chick Corea?"
Me: "He's a famous jazz player isn't he?"

He nods and I continue reading the inside cover. It promises to teach me how to control my reactive mind and win the battle against negative reactive emotions. Appealing, but knowing what I know, I'm aware it's not in the bargin. I stand up.

Me: "You know. I think I've already won this battle. Or at least have started to."

I shake their hands, and thanking them, go my way.

How does the scientology machine work? I later read that all confessions on the e-meter are recorded and put in a special file. "So that they can effectively audit you." (Auditing: Using an e-meter to become clear [clear - an "initiated" one.]) However, there are several claims of members that they were blackmailed when they tried to leave the church. "You can tell me, a stranger."

I also later found that a confidential leaked technical document showed that the voltmeter used in the e-meter was not on off the shelf component. It had to be specialy designed so that upon specific voltage change for the meter to go back and forth 6-8 but not 9 times so that the auditor would have more to interpret.

The Church of Scientology has most if not all of their upper member level handbooks and instructional and promotional material classified as trade secrets. Meaning you if you leak them you are prosecuted.

The Church of Scientology has a policy of chaning beliefs. They do not tell the beginer about the grand space lord untill their well into the church. "So that they do not become confused." In fact they forbid discussion of beliefs even between members so that "The source is not diluded".

Speaking of grand space lords, they believe in one. The Evil Lord Xenu who long ago, longer then the universe has existed (it was another universe) rounded up millions of people around volcanos on earth and detonated the volcanos with H-bombs. This resulted in... you know, I think I'll just quote it. Far be it from me to butcher this historical account by reciting from memory.


Xenu, the galactic tyrant who first kidnapped certain individuals who were deemed as 'excess population' and loaded these individuals into space planes for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth). These space planes were supposedly exact copies of Douglas DC-8s. He then stacked hundreds of billions of these frozen victims around Earth's volcanoes 75 million years ago before blowing them up with hydrogen bombs and brainwashing them with a "three-D, super colossal motion picture" for 36 days. The traumatised thetans subsequently clustered around human bodies, in effect acting as invisible spiritual parasites known as "Body Thetans" that can only be removed using advanced Scientology techniques. Xenu is allegedly imprisoned in a mountain and kept in by a force-field powered by an eternal battery.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/

What sort of sarcastic comment can I make after that?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/L_Ron_Hubbard.jpg
Do not trust this man.


+Blue

[cloakable]

I think it's a bigger piece of shit than Microsoft.

Stay the fuck away from it.

[coffeezombie]

Where are the people to say that adamaw is a Scientology missionary just like they said that the one guy wanting opinions of military occupations was a recruiter?

[563 740]

My understanding is that is basically a cult for celebraties to network and blow lots of money.

[PsiKik]

I went to a Scientologist 'church' because of an ad in the paper for a job. When I got there I knew it was useless but I played along for a while, feigning interest. They eventually showed me a few films.
I saw the 'e' meter.
Scientology is essentially a made up religion and money making scam.

[kuranes]

Like most such "enlightening" constructs, it will have some good ideas buried in the crap. If you must be part of it, however temporarily, seek to extract these, and then move on. It might also be useful for meeting people of a certain sort, especially if you wanted to start your own cult. Get the mailing list.

[SensEye]

Its all about seperating you from your money.Agreed, with a sideline in allowing vapid, materialistic celebrities to appear "spiritual" (but that's probably money driven too.)

[PsiKik]

Like most such "enlightening" constructs, it will have some good ideas buried in the crap. If you must be part of it, however temporarily, seek to extract these, and then move on. It might also be useful for meeting people of a certain sort, especially if you wanted to start your own cult. Get the mailing list.
Now your talking! http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=6290

I read somewhere that L. Ron Hubbard started Scientology as a dare when he said he could make up a religion. I don't know how true that is but it
seems entirely possible.

Just take a few basic truths and mix with it a lot of mythology and folklore.
The stuff about 'thetans' is on the same level as the mythology in the Bible.

[meshou]

Scientologists say that giving birth should be done sans pain killers.

And silent. It's supposed to be traumatizing for a baby to hear its mother scream.

Oy.

[Ivy]

Scientologists say that giving birth should be done sans pain killers.

And silent. It's supposed to be traumatizing for a baby to hear its mother scream.

Oy.

Oh, dear. Color my children traumatized, then! I did it sans painkillers but definitely not silently.

I think they're more traumatized by my corny jokes, frankly.

[kendoiwan]

interesting coincidence the timing of this thread... I have a friend who just read up on the masons and all their control of the world right :whistle: ... and i'm laughing my ass off about it right:rofl:... and then she goes she want's to read up on scientology... i go "please NOOO!!!" That's the last thing I need is you running around kicking that bullshit :rofl:

it's like Kuranes said... every great lie has some truth buried in there somewhere... but bottom line is what wiki said... gimme the loot bitches...

[Dunearhp]

Oh, dear. Color my children traumatized, then! I did it sans painkillers but definitely not silently.

I think they're more traumatized by my corny jokes, frankly.

The little lass in your avatar looks anything but traumatized.

[mindbender]

My opinion: crackpot pay-as-you-go, brainwashing, money grubbing cult.

[Sue Denim]

I took one of thier "personality tests" a long time ago and mistakenly gave them some contact info. They pestered me constantly, despite my repeated attempts to get them to stop. When I moved, they got the forwarding info from the post office and pestered my at my new place. I finally had to move with no forwarding order and new phone number to get them to stop.

brainwashing and money grubbing are good terms, but I'll just add annoying to the list.

[YardGnome]

more just a way to help people deal with and overcome certain difficulties in life.

Isn't that what any religion is?

[PsiKik]

Here is an idea ..

society for the salvation of the divine onion

Onionists believe that the universe is infact a giant Onion, referred to as the
'Divine Onion' or the 'Big O'.
They live in fear and anticipation of the end of the universe which they refer to as 'The Great Cooking' or 'The Great Eating'.
Generally Onionists are united in believing that before the great cooking there will
be the 'Great Peeling' in which the chef-god peels the onion before eating or cooking it.

There are two major branches of the church, those that believe the chef-god will eat the onion raw and those
that believe it will be cooked, either by frying or using it as an ingrediant
in a giant pizza-universe.
Those who believe in the frying scenario also believe the 'Divine Onion' is in fact part
of a larger Universe which resembles a McDonalds restaurant.

The core belief of the onionists is to revere and eat onions in the hope that they may gain the
attention of the chef-god who will then eat the onion universe and herald the members into
paradise.

[Ivy]

The little lass in your avatar looks anything but traumatized.

:) :) :) If her impromptu and untrained ballet performances are any indication, you're absolutely right. :) :) :)

[nottaprettygal]

It seems like a good way to meet Tom Cruise or John Travolta...but other than that I don't see any benefits.

[Conan]

i think the whole exercise and vitamins as opposed to psychiatric drugs philosophy is not all that unreasonable

[SensEye]

i think the whole exercise and vitamins as opposed to psychiatric drugs philosophy is not all that unreasonableI just read a snippet in the newspaper today that Cruise, Travolta, and Kelly Preston are encouraging Katie Holmes to remain silent when she gives birth so as not to traumatize the baby.:rolleyes2

So much for the Scientology theory that vitamins and exercise can cure insanity.

[nottaprettygal]

I just read a snippet in the newspaper today that Cruise, Travolta, and Kelly Preston are encouraging Katie Holmes to remain silent when she gives birth so as not to traumatize the baby.:rolleyes2

It certainly is a miracle that a "virgin" and someone who supposedly can't reproduce can make a baby. I think some sort of alien is going to emerge from her vag.

[sonnychiba]

its a cult for the rich famous and stupid

[adamaw11]

Wow thats a lot of replys in the past few days, mostly negative too - interesting - answered my curiosity as wanted I guess. (from a fair few non-INTPs also, not that that means anything)

There's not much point in me saying much more here since I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, but let me just say a couple of things: one reason I became more curious about it was because I found a lot of criticism towards it on the internet, by unintelligent people (antagonism with no reasoning or substance).

I havn't yet found any good reason to dismiss it. Currently I'm still pretty neutral towards it, and I'll keep pursuing it a little more since I refuse to let any uninformed negative judgments effect my opinion on something, so that I can find out for myself. (I'm not necessarily referring to the negative responses on here)

[panda]

I havn't yet found any good reason to dismiss it.
...?

Here's a list of the core beliefs of Scientology pulled directly from Wikipedia:

The central beliefs of Scientology are:

* a person is an immortal spiritual being (termed a thetan) who possesses a mind and a body, accompanied by a lesser "genetic entity"
* the thetan has lived through many past lives, stored memories of which can cause problems in the present day
* a person is basically good, but is "aberrated" by the memories of traumas
* Total infallibility of everything Hubbard (Source) has written or spoken.

Scientology claims to offer an exact methodology to help a person achieve spiritual and ethical education, awareness, and improvement, so that he or she may achieve a level of spiritual purity as well as greater effectiveness in the physical world. Methods of clearing are proposed to enable this change. The ultimate goal of Scientology is to "rehabilitate" the thetan, restoring its superhuman abilities to control "matter, energy, space and time" (MEST).
If those aren't good reasons to dismiss Scientology... I don't know what are.

[Ivy]

I havn't yet found any good reason to dismiss it.

Just for myself, the whole "humans as receptacles for the souls of aliens who were brought to Earth by the warlord Xenu to counteract galactic overpopulation" thing would be enough. That's just my opinion, though, and your mileage may vary. I'm sure some of my beliefs seem wacky to others.

[simian20]

tom cruise is one. ask no more questions. where do i sign up. i do warn i have limited liquid/static assests my scientological overlord! can i be your bitch instead? (gulp!?)

[meshou]

I havn't yet found any good reason to dismiss it.Giving thousands of dollars to a religion so you can have their form of salvation does seem kind of suspect. Not to mention the whole suing anyone who says anything negative about them off the planet.

Basically Scientology wants to be the only one to say anything about scientology, especially when it comes to the negative. There have been four or five sites shut down because they dared point out that being posessed by the spirits of aliens and it's followers are just a little glassy eyed and rabid tends to lead one to think it's a creepy-ass cult.

[Spartan26]

Scientology is essentially a made up religion and money making scam.
I've heard a bunch of varied quotes on the same theme supposedly by LRon. (sounds like a rapper). My favorite but probably not true was the version, "if you want to make millions start a business. If you want to make tens of millions start a religion.

I had a girlfriend who lived near the Celebrity Center, I think it's called, off Bronson in Hollywood. Apparently, they were trying to change the names of some of the surrounding streets to LRon Way, Scientology Blvd, that sort of thing. She really fought them and won. At least her street name stayed the same. They were really pissed about her organizing people against them. She would get these harassing phone calls at 3 o'clock in the morning.

[Nico]

There's nothing wrong with being curious. I would recommend picking up Dianetics from a used book store and reading through it. I think any sensible person would be able to discern what there is in Scientology that is to be 'dismissed' by reading that book. You don't even have to get to the idea of thetans and galactic over-population. The book was originally made out as a self-help book and not necessarily a text of specifically Scientology- Ron L H.'s ideas on what it is you need help for, and the method of helping become all too questionable right away. You're clearly interested, and I think that reading that would be able to provide you with the knowledge you're interested in obtaining, and the ability to discuss your view on it in an intelligent manner (as you seem frustrated by the ignorant banter of people who are too lazy to do a little reading and argue sensibly on the topic).

[Promethean]

Hubbard said he was going to create a religion to scam a bunch of people out of their money. He had an inate distaste for religion and he did exactly what he said he would do. Partly to make a bunch of money, and partly to make fun of everyone looking for a religion to solve their problems instead of using their own minds. Hubbard was amazed his idea actually worked. Today we have full fledged scientology. Brilliant man if you ask me. I probably would have liked him the same way Howard Roark liked Gayle Wynand.

[Birdsnest]

I read the first half chapter of the book and never picked it up again. The reason was, I could sense it was a type of hypnosis or cult. As I read it, it actually felt weird and cultish to me, and I simply didnt get anything out of being lectured to do exactly as he says and it was in a negative tone I didn't like.

I tried it and just couldn't get into it. So, I personally can't stand it.

[DevRock]

My opinion: crackpot pay-as-you-go, brainwashing, money grubbing cult.

Aren't they all? Look at the massive wealth at the Vatican. Or the Mormon Church.

[Rhu]

For some reason, Scientology and Hubbard have been a constant source of disgust and amusement for myself and my friends... The link to xenu.org provided earlier is a great place to start on the adventure of learning about the organization.

Some of my favorite highlights: "Sea Org" -- L. Ron's incompetant personal Navy. Denied port throughout Europe, he still managed to cruise around the mediterranian with his devotees (all under contract for ONE BILLION YEARS of service) he would take LOTS of drugs and dream up new mantras and tape record his every insane thought... There's a really, really great link on xenu's site to a black and white british documentary film where they spent a couple days on Hubbard's boat.

One of the brilliant plays in Scientology and its hypnotic training techniques is the written documentations that Hubbard would come out with from time to time explaining who the "subversives" were and what to do with them. Very high on his list were psychologists, who were using their non-scientific techniques to control humanity and addict it to drugs. To visit or talk to a psychologist is a damning offense.

Etymological tidbit: I wasn't aware of this until, well, today, but--The word the scientolgists use for 'non-Clears' and especially for non-Scientologists is apparently also an obscure British equivalent for 'nigger.'

Another note: There is a short book online detailing the struggles of a former Scientologist that I ran into totally independantly of discovering this thread today--this chapter and the epilogue were especially interesting to me:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/xenu/xenu-14.html

Also curious that this is being hosted by Carnegie Mellon's computer science department, but that's neither here nor there.