GRE questions

[Geek Engineer]

I was thinking today about the whole masters degree in engineering thing again, and I was talking to my boss about it some more today.

I hope this isn't a common question, but does anyone have an idea how hard it would be to take the GRE after being away from college about 7 years? Note my ACT scores in high school were something like 14E,25M,35S. So in other words I totally suck at english, so that is probably going to be the hardest part of it for me. Of course I hope INTPc is helping my english skills. :) I was talking to the girl I know at work and she said that you can get a lot of test preparation books etc. and she thought there is a class for it also that you can take.

If you take the GRE how long is the score usually good for? Should you only take it if you are serious about starting the degree program? I was sort of thinking maybe taking even if I decide not to start it, but not sure if that is a good idea.

[Rhu]

The general GRE isn't hard at all. You basically have to be able to read and interpret, and have a functional ability to read graphs and understand the basics of algebra and geometry. The questions are designed to trip you up. For instance:

sqrt(4) =

a. 2
b. is undefined
c. 4
d. none of the above.

...the answer is d, due to the incompleteness of a.

There are books and such you can take... There is also a downloadable version (www.gre.org/pracmats.html) of the test that is almost exactly like the actual test, which should be most helpful in preparation.

[Geek Engineer]

Well I might already be in trouble, because I don't understand how the sqrt(4) is not exactly equal to 2.

When they say sqrt(4) they do mean "4^(1/2)" right?

[Rhu]

Exactness implies existance and uniqueness. In this case, the solution provided isn't unique. :)

There is a solution for the square route of 4 that is 2.

There is also a solution for the square route of 4 that is -2.

[Geek Engineer]

Doug!!!

[Ivy]

Exactness implies existance and uniqueness. In this case, the solution provided isn't unique. :)

There is a solution for the square route of 4 that is 2.

There is also a solution for the square route of 4 that is -2.

Oh, man. I am so screwed.

[nottaprettygal]

If you take the GRE how long is the score usually good for? Should you only take it if you are serious about starting the degree program? I was sort of thinking maybe taking even if I decide not to start it, but not sure if that is a good idea.

I believe that your GRE scores are good for 5 years. I would recommend only taking it if you're serious about applying to a graduate school, mainly because of the cost. I believe it cost me $115 to take the test, and I don't see any benefit from taking it just for kicks.

I will slightly disagree with Rhu and say that the Quantitative section of the GRE is not that difficult...but as someone who generally does well on the Verbal section, I found that section very challenging. There's only so much educated guessing that can take place. When it comes down to it, sometimes you just have to know the word. There are a few books (and online resources) that will basically give you the most frequently used words. I would definitely memorize them.

[nottaprettygal]

Exactness implies existance and uniqueness. In this case, the solution provided isn't unique. :)

There is a solution for the square route of 4 that is 2.

There is also a solution for the square route of 4 that is -2.

Right...but there are only so many questions that are like this. For many questions the solution is about more than just a "trick," it's about actually using basic geometry, arithmatic, and algebra to solve a seemingly complex problem.

[Valentine]

I've taken it twice, once in paper form (back in the olden days, during my last year as an undergrad, when it was supposed to be good for 20 years or the rest of your life), and once electronically (in 2000, and I just checked their website and it doesn't say how long it's good for, but I'm remember something like 5 years, so I'm expired; dang!).

I studied for it. I had only been out of school for a short time when I re-took it (I had done another undergrad degree part time while working full time), but I still wanted to review, especially the math. I can do math when I'm doing a class, but it goes when I stop practicing regularly. It does come back. Anyway, I felt the review helped me.

I took standardized paper tests for decades (I'm old), so I have a really good technique down for that format. The electronic is different, and I think my test taking technique isn't as good for that method. It's harder to effectively use your time (my opinion). But my scores came out about the same.

Yeah, go for it and get it out of the way. If your advanced degree calls for any other stuff (I was going to do one that required reading knowledge of a foreign language), get that sorted out ahead of time if you can, too. Anything to make your life easier later on.

[moni]

oh boy, i'm taking it in like 2 weeks, and i haven't had the chance to study for the verbal section. there's some practice tests you can take online from the gre website.... grrr, and the verbal section is just like the ones from sat. the math is very easy and doesn't even reach calculus (it's like high school math).

[nottaprettygal]

and the verbal section is just like the ones from sat.

I'm not sure if the verbal section of the SAT has antonyms though, which the GRE has. Those are the hardest part, in my (and many other people's) opinion. The difficulty is much greater then the SAT too, since they assume that your vocabulary has grown within the 4+ years between the tests.

[2ds]

And here I was getting all excited thinking we were talking about GRE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_routing_encapsulation)

-2ds

[2hype]

I took it about ten years ago. I remember that the questions weren't that hard, there were just a lot of them. So a big part of doing well, at least for me, was working on the timing. For instance, you don't really have time to work out every single math problem. You kind of need to just have good number sense, look at the answers, and you can usually eliminate two of them, because they just don't make sense, and then figre out which of the others is the correct answer, without going through the time consuming work of actually solving the problem. But being an engineer, you probably wouldn't have any problem with that. I think the best way to study for the verbal section is to read a lot of high level newspapers and books, and take as many of the practice tests as you have time for.

[nottaprettygal]

As far as time management is concerned, most of the books I've read have suggested that you spend a lot of time on the first few questions. Those are the questions that really drive your score up. The questions at the end are probably only making a 10 point difference in your score.

[Rhu]

Now that I think about it... Yeah. The math portion was probably a bit harder than I initially made it out to be.

One of the big reasons that it is hard is due to the fact that there is a large concentration of perfect scores... I think I missed two or three questions and scored in the 81st* percentile. I missed many more questions than that on the language portion of the test and scored in the 83rd percentile... I was fairly pleased with those results (being a guy who graduated with a 2.6 GPA--I figured I had little chance of getting in anywhere prestigious and took the test once, as it was an entrance requirement to get back into the school I left eight months before.)

*side note: am I the only person who finds typing mixed numbers and letters to be awkward? Although I initially typed 81st, I started deleting it to type out 'eighty-first' in its entirety, and then decided to keep it the way it was and write a silly little comment about it.

[gman13]

I just took a $1000 Kaplan class to take the GRE. I didn't think it was particularly worth it... but it did get me to focus on studying a certain amount every week, which I really needed. They also do give you tricks to answer the questions that I found to be very helpful. I might have been able to get the tricks from their books though really...

I had a difficult time with the quant section. Not that I felt the questions were always so difficult, but because of the time constraint. I have trouble doing math under that kind of time pressure. My brain just doesn't work like that.

As for verbal, start studying now, especially if it is your weak area. It takes time to build a vocabulary and I think you will find that you score well if you generally have a strong vocab and they ask you words you know. If you are going into engineering, the quant section will obviously be more important. I think it is typical to see someone do better in one section than the other and a lot of times, by a large margin. I scored about the same on each test (630 verbal, 670 quant), but the way the scores are scaled a 630 verbal is near the 90th percentile and the 670 verbal is only in like the 60th percentile. I think something like 8% of people get perfect score on the quant.

One thing to note, as someone just said earlier. You want to make sure not to rush through the test. The reason is this. Everyone starts out with a middle range score. A correct score will get you a higher score and a harder question. If you get that question wrong, you will get a lower score and an easier question. I think why this matters is that the harder questions are weighted more than the easier ones. So even if you don't get to all the questions you can get a high score.

The score is good for five years. Best of luck to you.

[Nighthawk]

I had been out of school about 8 years when I took the GRE. I did better on it, comparatively speaking, than I did on the SAT prior to college. I would recommend taking a couple of courses of study for it. They contain a lot of shortcuts for the quantitative and logic portions of the exam (do they still have a logic portion?).

I tried studying for the GMAT about a year ago, which was pure hell. Of course, that was at the exact point where my doctor was experimenting with the correct dosages of anti-depressant and Tourettes medications. I would not recommend making any pharma changes while you are undertaking something like this.

[moni]

I'm not sure if the verbal section of the SAT has antonyms though, which the GRE has. Those are the hardest part, in my (and many other people's) opinion. The difficulty is much greater then the SAT too, since they assume that your vocabulary has grown within the 4+ years between the tests.

they both still involve a lot of hard words that i never used or heard of! maaaaan.... and my vocabulary has only grown in the technical/computer science area.

[Rhu]

The most important thing about vocabulary sections is understanding words and roots. I guess one really helpful (though horribly indirect) way of getting at some of the root words you are missing would be by learning a different language... Picking up any romance language would be of great help in determining the meanings of latin-root words.

Likewise with Germanic language/word structure.

[Geek Engineer]

Thanks guys.

I ran away after feeling really stupid that I forgot about imaginary numbers or is it complex numbers, I always get those mixed up.... We use to deal with complex roots of quadratics all the time in Electrical Engineering. Now I don't use it so much anymore when you can just use a simulator and it hides much of that from you.. Ha Ha.

Actually, I have had German classes, but it has been a while since I had studied it. I took four years of it in high school and one class in college. So it didn't seem to help me much. I have always had trouble with english, spelling, and vocabulary. I usually make dumb quantitative mistakes, but then the analytical part is usually a cake walk. I have been reading more books lately and writing on this forum I think has helped some.

I am not sure if I will pursue the Masters or not yet, but if I do it would be to start this next fall. So would anyone have a good rough idea when I should take the test to fit that timetable?

[Rhu]

You should have your results before you apply, and I guess you'll be applying in March or something, right? Results can be in for you in a pretty short stretch if you don't do the Analytical Writing test, so I'd say toward the middle of February?

[Rajah]

I took the GRE in 1996. I'm taking it again this year. I was concerned because it's been so long since my last pass. I started doing review tests, and am finding it's coming back very easily. I believe I can memorize the math formulas that have disappeared from my head in the past 9 years, in maybe an hour or two? The GRE math section is so much easier than the SAT. The verbal is more difficult, but your skills will have improved in the past 7 years. I wouldn't sweat it. Seriously.

Also, my GRE score was the exact same score as my SAT. I'd expect the same results.

[floyd]

i recommend buying the kaplin GRE book which includes a cd with practise tests. also, ets (the company which administers the GRE) has a downloadable practice test which is basically identical to the real one. the ets practice test has two practise tests on it if i recall. i recommend that you read the kaplan book first, then take the practise tests on the kaplan cd and study up on what you get wrong. once you think you can't learn anymore, take one of ets practise tests. your real test score should be very close to the ets practise test, mine was the exact same.

i don't think you can raise you verbal score all that much (although it's probably worth it to learn the word lists). you can raise the math score signficantly, provided your score without studying is not already really high.

[nottaprettygal]

I am not sure if I will pursue the Masters or not yet, but if I do it would be to start this next fall. So would anyone have a good rough idea when I should take the test to fit that timetable?

It depends when the applications for certain schools are due, although they sometimes allow GRE scores to arrive a bit later.

I took the test twice (I was really sick the first time), once in October and once in November. My applications were due from January 1st-mid-March. I'd probaby take it about two months ahead of the application deadline.

I agree with floyd (oh god) that raising your verbal score significantly is tough, but since you're in engineering, they may not even care about your verbal score.

[floyd]

I agree with floyd (oh god)...

so you are mean as well as crazy, noted.

[Mr. Beef]

Let's just agree that i'm god and call it a day. :) (perfect GRE)

[nottaprettygal]

Let's just agree that i'm god and call it a day. :) (perfect GRE)

Whaaaaaa?

I hate you.

I can only hope that in the future I will become much much much more successful despite my score of 1210.

[Xenophon]

The great thing about standardized tests is that they are multiple choice. I don't have a particularily great vocabulary and I ended up getting a 720 on the verbal just by eliminating the answers the didn't make sense and going with what my intuition told me from the remaining answers.

After finishing an undergraduate degree in engineering, I found the math section really easy. It is just basic geometry and algebra questions, just go slow and make sure you don't make any mistakes.

Basically my studying for the GRE was reading through a Princton Review book, it gave me a good idea of what the questions would be like and to get in the right mindset before it.

As for raising your verbal score, I found that studying the word lists in my review book was really helpful. Not because the words that I studied were in the test as definitions that I had to know, rather they were there as wrong answers that I could eliminate from the list of possible responses.

Don't ask me about the essay however. I thought mine were awesome, and I ended up getting a 4.

[Xenophon]

Another note, I would have answered 2 to the sqrt(4) question, because if I'm not mistaken the square root is defined as the positive root of the number it operates on.

[Geek Engineer]

Yeah, so it looks like I will probably want to take it a bit sooner than I was hoping, but if I decide I will probably start studying here maybe next month to take it around the January time frame. I still need to go to the university I want to go to and see if I can talk to someone about it also..

[Elizabeth B]

The most important thing about vocabulary sections is understanding words and roots. I guess one really helpful (though horribly indirect) way of getting at some of the root words you are missing would be by learning a different language... Picking up any romance language would be of great help in determining the meanings of latin-root words.

Likewise with Germanic language/word structure.

I agree, study the roots. For a more direct study of roots, 2 good books:

English from the roots up.

Scott Bornstein's Memory Techniques for Vocabulary Mastery (this one is out of print but you can get it used online at amazon or alibris.)

[moni]

oh boy. i just took it today...
got a 490 in verbal and 790 in math...

my brain can only squeeze in so many difficult words.