Soul and Consciousness

[afton]

Does soul exist within your brain or "I" am merely a byproduct
of the neuron firings in my brain?

[eyebyte_atWork]

It's anyones guess.

[PlayerOfGames]

We cleared that up on Thursday but I just can't remember what conclusion we came to

[Madrigal]

Souls don't exist. That's just your mortal desire to live forever and feel better about the irreparable mistakes you have made in this lifetime.

[PiccoloNamek]

Your soul is the sum total of all of the electrical activity of your brain.

[eyebyte_atWork]

Souls don't exist. That's just your mortal desire to live forever and feel better about the irreparable mistakes you have made in this lifetime.

I feel better now -thank you.

[headfonez]

theres soul music, soul food, there... there must be a soul.

[mgb]

Oh shit. Here it comes.

[NoahFence]

Shouldn't this be under philosophy?

[distraction tactics]

Until we actually get a shred of evidence beyond religious faith, no.

[philonightmare]

Does soul exist within your brain or "I" am merely a byproduct
of the neuron firings in my brain?
No, your spleen.

But really, it is due to neuronal connections. "Soul" is a concept just like any other and thus a product of the brain.

[PromiscuousMind]

No no, it’s not so brain-centric! Cognition is not merely electric potentials in CNS neurons. There are also all those good signal molecules that swarm about all around your body and interact with lots of systems. If anything, I’d be inclined to think that the “soul” is less the CNS “wiring” and more the “bodymind”; like the concentrations/regulations of receptors and the efficacy of synthesis of transmitters. Not just signaling, but dormant propensity for signaling. Sometimes I like to think that “soul” is more the movement, flow, and/or distribution of these molecules (and that might include the ion gradients that power electric potentials) then the particular events of signaling. It seems to me that in the “bodymind” stuff the greatest possibility for “extrasensory” experiences resides.

((I am compelled to say that I am far from committed to any of the above – but it is fun to ponder!))

[NoahFence]

Until we actually get a shred of evidence beyond religious faith, no.
Um...that was sort of my point, actually...without a shred of evidence, this is nothing BUT philosophy and not the least bit scientific at all.

[distraction tactics]

Um...that was sort of my point, actually...without a shred of evidence, this is nothing BUT philosophy and not the least bit scientific at all.

1. I agree.

2. I wasn't replying to you.

[NoahFence]

2. I wasn't replying to you.

Ah ha! That explains a great deal.

[Crazy]

Of course its in the brain. Everything you experience is limited to just what your brain recieves or invents. You never have any real experiences, just brain activity.

[NoahFence]

Of course its in the brain. Everything you experience is limited to just what your brain recieves or invents. You never have any real experiences, just brain activity.
Ahh, but what if the brain is merely a transdimensional wireless network card communicating with the soul?

[Crazy]

I guess we'll find out when it breaks down, wont we.

[NoahFence]

Maybe :)

[Lee]

Ahh, but what if the brain is merely a transdimensional wireless network card communicating with the soul?But then the soul must have some causal relationship with brain activity, no such thing has been observed. Plus, if there was a soul causing activity in the brain, then we would all be walking energy makers, because it would be an effect without a cause, which means energy would have been added to the universe.

If you then decide that it does not require a causal relationship for whatever reason, you have essentially told us that the soul does not do anything that the brain cannot do by itself anyway. And your speculation as to the existence of the soul is an untestable hypothesis, since no observation or experience can refute or verify it... basically, its pointless speculation.

As for consciousness. The explanation 'the brain does it' does not suffice, simply because the brain does a lot of complex things, most of which we are not conscious of... so complexity of information processing would appear to not be the cause of consciousness. Whatever the neural correlates of consciousness are is still a bit mysterious, and how exactly these neurons have been gifted with the emergent product of consciousness is puzzling.

Personally, I think it may have something to do with conflict. All feelings and desires are born out of the possibility that they might not be fulfilled i.e. there is conflict between the universe, and your desired universe. If it all happened how you wanted, you wouldn't need to desire anything.

Consciousness may well emerge as a conflict of inputs from varying locations in the brain, all vying for their voice to be heard, all trying to get the organism to take a particular path.

That is just a pet theory that I haven't really thought out fully. But this is on of those topics where all people have are pet theories most of the time...

[Mr. Beef]

Consciousness may well emerge as a conflict of inputs from varying locations in the brain, all vying for their voice to be heard, all trying to get the organism to take a particular path.

Explain.

[cbwatcher]

Consciousness may well emerge as a conflict of inputs from varying locations in the brain, all vying for their voice to be heard, all trying to get the organism to take a particular path.

Guys, so then, do you believe that we can build machine, which possess consciusness? Or maybe it exist, some systems in the world that have some patterns similar to our brain and that system have consciousness.

[distraction tactics]

Guys, so then, do you believe that we can build machine, which possess consciusness? Or maybe it exist, some systems in the world that have some patterns similar to our brain and that system have consciousness.

I believe one day we will create true AI. The tricky part could be in recognizing it as such. In my view, for something to be conscious, it needs external stimili. For human beings this takes form in how we process information received by our physical bodies. Our human-ness has created a unique set of standards, everything from the nature of good and evil to the insecurities of 'my thighs are too fat'. How exactly can you program true non-human setiency to recognize and mirror this human-ness? What does assault mean to a machine that doesn't have physical limbs? Before we can look at consciousness, I think we need to examine the possible stimuli.

[grobyc82]

This message isn't posted to anyone's response directly.

"Soul" seems to be the term that past civilizations used to describe the indescribable. Just as ancient civilizations tried to explain "why rain falls" and "why the earth is flat and not a triangle", people try to explain things regardless with or without the proper evidence. Did you ever try BSing on a paper before?

This is probably due to our insatiable curiosity as human beings. The need to know why is a strong need for some and is stronger for others. Thus, in the past, when consciousness was nearly unmeasurable, we probably used the idea of a "soul" to explain things like; feelings, thoughts, perceptions, and various sorts of reactions to external stimuli. I lean towards the idea that this "soul" of ours was created to fill in a void that our reasoning and logic could not fully explain. Just when someone patches a hole in the wall, they dont care much for what goes inside these holes, but whether if the hole is filled in or not. Sometimes we find there is a better substance to patch these holes and so we use this new substance for the future. This is probably like when we provide answers to questions about science until a new theory is spawned.

[panda]

grobyc82: Nice post; I agree with you.

[ApeTheDog]

Your soul is who you want to be, isn't it?

[myabyss]

I cannot prove or disprove(is that a real word) the existance of a soul, I do know there is something detectable that leaves the body at or near death.
My grandmother had a massive heart attack. Her eyes were open and everyone but me thought she couldn't hear us.( I think the others were unable to detach themselves emotionally and observe her more objectively....a guess) However I was able to get her to communicate by blinking her eyes.
I hated the thought of her being alone during the night so I slept at the hospital in the waiting room, and would go in every hour or so to see her (I think you could visit 15 minutes per hour). At 3 am I came to visit her (having been there just an hour or so earlier) the momment I walked into the room I knew she was gone. Her body was still alive(she was on life support) but my grandmother was gone. When I got over near her bed so I could see her eyes and talk to her, there was no more communication between us. She was empty, is the way I felt. She died 3 hours later.
I do not know if it was her "soul" or something else but you could feel that it was gone.