Group Projects: Stepping up as the leader

[Leftfield]

Ok, so we are in a class titled, "Managing Cultural Differences" and the country I expressed interest towards was Germany, due to my six months of living there. The rest of my group did not object.

This project was assigned about three weeks ago and within the next three weeks we are to meet as a group during class time, which two of the other three people have not showed up to class since this assigned time.

I have received no feedback from one and little from the other but the third is in class every time. Just today I wrote out a detailed e-mail about how I foresee things play out and what is to be expected as a group during these meetings. Also to imply that within these next three weeks composes of over 60% of our final grade.

My question is: is it normal for me (as an INTP) to take charge at the time when I see dysfunction within a group that needs to work together. I tend to do this a lot because most Americans I know are reactive and reluctant to work with other people. By taking charge in defining myself as the now group leader, it feels pretty natural but carries a responsibility that is both time-consuming and deals with managing fellow students (which feels weird because I feel we are all equals).

Anyone else ever come across this??? A slow developing group that played out slower / less efficient to your liking and feel the need to step up and be the leader? And if so, how did it make you feel?

[Dolphin]

Yes I remember it very clearly. No one was working they all wanted to talk about fashion and stupid stuff like that. The “leader” wasn’t doing any work either just talking and talking.

I had no choice, if I wanted to get a good grade I would have to take charge. So I did by assigning each of them a different task something small and within their limited ability. I thought it would be more efficient this way but no it wasn’t.

The day of the group presentation all three of them ditched class leaving me to do the entire presentation by myself. An eight minute presentation and all I knew was the part of the assignment that I had assigned myself ( which was the hardest and required the most brain cells ).

The good news is that I got an A while the other three got F’s. You would be surprised at the amount of BS you can pull out of your mouth in such a short amount of time.

[Crazy]

This comes up for me from time to time.

I do believe I've read that INTP's in general make excellent leaders, but will only step up if there is a lack of leadership in the group. It probably comes from the natural distaste for stagnancy, and the need to experiment with new ideas.

I've always fallen naturally into the leadership role when it was necessary, but have always been quick to give it up to a suitable replacement.

[Dolphin]

I learned some things that day:
1. If you want something done right do it yourself.
2. In a group project where there are mostly extroverts it is better for the entire group to work as one tackling each task at a time and as a group.
3. Public speaking isn’t really that hard to do. All you have to do is sound like you know what you are talking about.
4. If something is important do not take a passive approach with people, let them know that you mean business.


As the INTP/INTJ you have the advantage ( at least scholarly ) thus, it is your responsibility to make sure that the work gets done. So unless there is someone there that's doing a better job than you could do then let them have it, but if you think you can do better then go for it.

[Nighthawk]

I've run into this situation countless times during my life. I will not hesistate to take over the leadership reins if the group is heading down the tubes and the designated leader is doing nothing about it. I will also not hesitate turning things back over to the designated leader once the danger has passed. I was never a big fan of "teamwork" in school, because some people on the team usually slide and do the minimum work ... or none at all. Unfortunately, it is that way a lot in the corporate world too. Some of the people in a group do the lion's share of the work, while others slack. Ironically, the slackers are often promoted to higher positions as they are seen as having "people skills" ... which is what they call sitting around and bullshitting / sending email all day. The slackers are also often protected individuals, having somebody in higher management looking out for them. I have yet to find a situation ... in over 40 years ... where I could completely escape this type of group dynamic.

[Ka.avik]

I will not hesistate to take over the leadership reins if the group is heading down the tubes and the designated leader is doing nothing about it.
Somehow I expected you to pipe up on this thread http://forums.intpcentral.com/images/smilies/whistling.gif

Myself, I've pretty much managed to avoid leadership roles. I don't mind being important, such as the meeting note-taker person, but the few times I've found myself in a position to do managerial things such as delegate, or draw lines in the sand, I've come to an aprupt realiztation I had no clue what I was doing. Definate death knell for an NT circumstance.

[Nighthawk]

Somehow I expected you to pipe up on this thread http://forums.intpcentral.com/images/smilies/whistling.gif

Heh ... I'm somewhat of an anomaly, I guess. An institutionally trained leader who doesn't want the position.

[garak]

I've always fallen naturally into the leadership role when it was necessary, but have always been quick to give it up to a suitable replacement.
Very much agreed.

I think I'm an alright leader -- better than an idiot, for sure -- but I can't compete with a truly take-charge person who wants to (and can) lead competently. I always like to say "I'm not a leader OR a follower," but in these situations, I am pretty happy to follow a good leader.

[kuranes]

We never had "group projects" when I was going to college/uni. I do hear a lot of young people describing this kind of problem though, nowadays. Guess that's part of some kind of "new teaching" paradigm. If it's as common a problem as i'm guessing, I wonder that the Profs don't offer some kind of answer to it.

I went to a "digital bootcamp" about 9 years ago to get up to speed on computers and software, and it was an international class. We did have a group project there. This Pakistani guy was always going off on wild tangents about things that had little to no bearing on the presentation, and getting very worked up about it. He was a major pain in the ass to deal with, though very sincere and friendly in a way. He couldn't seem to comprehend that his balking at little issues of protocol etc. were eating away our time. An American Jewish guy took charge immediately, and I was tempted to give him shit about his assumptiveness. I decided I'd give him some rope instead, and he did well with it vs. hanging himself. He had the pleasure of dealing with the Pakistani guy. We were on a deadline of a couple days to get the whole thing done. Anytime someone would ask the teacher about problems she'd always just say that "you're going to encounter this in the corporate world too, and so don't expect me to sort it out". I did my part, and so did most of the people. We got good marks. Some of the other middle eastern guys in the group had managed to get the Pakistani to chill. He didn't contribute much, and his piece of the presentation was beyond disorganized, but at least he finally stopped arguing about every little thing. At the end of each week certain people were let go if they weren't cutting it, and we ALL heaved a sigh of relief when he got the axe a couple weeks later.

If I was in one of these classrom situations, I'd be pretty pissed off if people were just doing the no-show thing and not even calling to arrange to make things up. If I were in such a mess, I bet the slackers WOULD CALL, each time with a different kind of excuse, so that it wasn't extremely obvious what they were doing. I'd probably start telling them off anyway, and then there would be some peacemaker come along -who'd buy their line about solidarity - and tell me to back off. Guess who would end up doing the slacker's work later? The peacemaker. If I thought the whole thing was about to go down the dumper, because there WAS no peacemaker, I'd do a crash familiarization course just prior on "the big picture", so I could do it ALL if need be. ( As an INTP, chances are I would have already been taking some peeks at areas beyond the scope of my portion. ) I would tell the professor about the handicaps we had worked under if I thought it was going to come off noticably weak on the day in question. Sometimes you don't have lasting trouble with slackers if they sense that no one in the group will put up with their bullshit. They can smell those peacemakers quickly though.

[Leftfield]

I would tell the professor about the handicaps we had worked under if I thought it was going to come off noticably weak on the day in question.

That is my approach to it since the fourth person in my group is pretty much a mute right now (at subject to "being told on"). The other two seem to have their shit together and one of these people thanked me for "getting the ball rolling". I find it wierd how hesitant we can be at times, but for a class that deals with international management, it is very odd that national management at the local level is such a bitch, isn't it?

Thanks to everyone for the feedback! I've read all the responces so far...

[Xenophon]

I prefer to let someone else be the leader in group projects, and if there is someone else who is competant and willing I let them lead. However, most of the time this doesn't happen and I end up becoming the de facto leader. This is because, being an INTP, I am very good at seeing and analyzing the eventual outcomes of any course of action that someone might suggest. This combined with the fact that I am 6'4 and I have a very powerful voice, I think that I eminate a sense of being in control in whatever situation I am in, so people subconsciously let me make the final decision.

That being said, I think that I am a very good leader as I have a very open mind, and can easily combine everyones ideas into one coherent plan of action. I think that the biggest problem that most leaders have is that they don't realize that the leader of a group must also be the best listener in the group for things to work out well.

[nottaprettygal]

The phrase "group project" makes me wince.

I'm a good leader, but like others I don't care to lead. I'm much better at being the leader's assistant...coming up with ideas and possible problems that may arise. I dont like to delegate though.

I am surprisingly good at anticipating the needs of others. I know that some people need to be micromanaged and some people need no direction at all. I'm also good at making sure that all group members feel like their ideas have equal importance...even though in actuality MY ideas are the most important.

[Mr. Beef]

of course your ideas are the best. :rofl:

[Leftfield]

The phrase "group project" makes me wince.

I am surprisingly good at anticipating the needs of others. I know that some people need to be micromanaged and some people need no direction at all. I'm also good at making sure that all group members feel like their ideas have equal importance...even though in actuality MY ideas are the most important.

Wow, you just took a page out of my autobiography.

I have group projects in two classes, Cultures and Investments, in Inv. you can work alone, which I choose to the point where another fellow student (from a homework group of another class, too many groups!) asked if he could team up with me, split it in two, review the others work thoroughly to understand the rationale and essentially split the time dedicated to the work... not a bad tradeoff since I can trust him.

I typically step up as the leader in most cases because I want things to be adjusted in the end to the best way I see fit. I do the same thing where I will take account another person's idea, spin it a little bit (like an equal tradeoff) to where it would clearly benefit me, when they object, we compromise to the point of where I exactly wanted it in the first place (which was always in the back of my mind). This is the best way for me to get what I want and make the other person feel like they got what they wanted because like you said, "My ideas are the most important" is what is clearly going through my head when they start talking.

[abathur]

I suppose I tend to prefer being the "brains of the operation" without actually having to do all the responsibility delegating, checking in on people, counting on them to get things done, etc. When I do lead, I tend to lead by example and have little tolerance for motivating other people person by person. If no one else is willing to step up to the plate with me when I do, if possible, I cut myself off from the group at least temporarily until they've motivated themselves.

I imagine INTP ability to lead is dependant on who you're working with. The big-picture bent probably makes us good leaders if we're able to stick with generalities and say things like, "I need this done--who's on it?" rather than "We need to do A, B, and C to accomplish this. Betty, you get A, Tom, you take B and Pat, you take C." To that end, we're probably less likely to complete a project and have not met the overarching goals like so many can't manage (insert quip about government here.)

[nottaprettygal]

I do the same thing where I will take account another person's idea, spin it a little bit (like an equal tradeoff) to where it would clearly benefit me, when they object, we compromise to the point of where I exactly wanted it in the first place (which was always in the back of my mind). This is the best way for me to get what I want and make the other person feel like they got what they wanted because like you said, "My ideas are the most important" is what is clearly going through my head when they start talking.

Exactly. A little bit of manipulation goes a long way. The point of group work is to make everyone feel like they've won, when in actuality you are the real winner.

People like us make much better leaders than those who just make constant demands in order to get their way because group members will actually like us as well as respect us. It's a much more productive means to the same end.

[Nighthawk]

Exactly. A little bit of manipulation goes a long way. The point of group work is to make everyone feel like they've won, when in actuality you are the real winner.

People like us make much better leaders than those who just make constant demands in order to get their way because group members will actually like us as well as respect us. It's a much more productive means to the same end.
I've always believed that one of the main pre-requisites for being a leader should be not wanting the job. It helps keep you more focused on the mission, humble, and attuned to the group. Less drama, posturing and politics. I believe that we, as INTPs (and you nottaprettygal as an INTJ) fall into that category of reluctant leader.

[eyebyte_atWork]

This comes up for me from time to time.

I do believe I've read that INTP's in general make excellent leaders, but will only step up if there is a lack of leadership in the group. It probably comes from the natural distaste for stagnancy, and the need to experiment with new ideas.

I've always fallen naturally into the leadership role when it was necessary, but have always been quick to give it up to a suitable replacement.

I have read that about INTJ's as well - and this thread has come at a timely point - as this is where I and NightHawk find ourselves. We are on a project that is heading towards self descruction because our leader shows no concern for the project. I guess he hopes it will all come together. It won't. I have been pushing the buttons on people I think canhelp remedy this and simulateously taking some charge of whats going on (To the degree as to help all involved without making it too obvious).

I am glad to see that it's not just me and its not just NigtHawk - but that others have the same problems and remedies. I hate to lead when there's a good leader around - but when there's not - I find that I not only have to lead - but I have to not bruise any agos along the way (I am usually one of the younger guys around and so I do not get any "street cred" for project managment)

[eyebyte_atWork]

Exactly. A little bit of manipulation goes a long way. The point of group work is to make everyone feel like they've won, when in actuality you are the real winner.


Word - the art of INTJ.

[rufio]

When I was in high school, I kept hoping that on the rare occasions I was forced to consent to group projects, they would be with people who didn't really care. If I got a bunch of people who DID care, they inevitably cared enough to force us to do something boring and inane. It was a pain doing more work than everyone else, but teachers who assign group progjects are usually fairly adept at figuring out who worked and who didn't anyway.