Meaning and Purpose of Life

[afton]

I've been wondering about this a lot and I can't quite
find a satisfactory resolution yet.

Knowing that someday I will die, and that time is quite
unpredictable, I want to live a worthy life.
So what makes you enthusiastic to wake up in the morning
and start your day? How do you find purpose in your life?

[melancholeric]

42.

[Zero Angel]

The purpose of life is the one that you choose to give it. I imagine.

[Purple-Silver Fox]

It boils down to that, yes. If you don't have a purpose in life you must necessarily choose one or live without one or die. But I suppose that you were looking for inspiration rather than sophistry?

[afton]

The purpose of life is the one that you choose to give it. I imagine.

That is right. I'm asking everyone here what make them enthusiastic
about your life? Is it a nice beer after a long day? Is it the annual holiday
in a faraway tropical island after a year long hardwork? Is it an inherent
satisfaction that you gained in doing your job? Is it a loving hug from your
significant other?

I admired Mahatma Gandhi and his simple life, and I want to live like
that. Unfortunately I live in a big city, and it's quite impossible to live
like that. Maybe someday in my retirement time.

[jjt]

I frequently struggle with the question "What will give my life meaning and what will make it satisfying to me and feel like I have done something of value to me?"

And philosophically life has not inherent meaning, I am the author of life's meaning.

But as you said this doesn't necessarily make it easier. I see my father and brother do the things is life that they believe God has made them for - wouldn't this be so much easier, having this belief? But I don't.

Is it money? Money has never inspired me. I think of all the jobs I have had where I could now be getting a lot more money, but the thought of a lot of money doing something where minute by minute I'm not inspired is unbearable.

I tend to have always gone with my current interest. But just gathering information on some current interest although interesting does not give great satisfaction. It is combining a current interest with a project that is challenging and pushes me to achieve beyond where I have been before that gives me the greatest sense of fulfillment. Plus I need to have a sense that what I am doing contributes is some way, makes an impact in a wider circle in a positive way that has others be admiring or grateful.

Starting my own business in nutrition fulfilled those three requirements for me. Plus I get to read more and more info/ research on this huge topic which I find is continually fascinating.

Right now I am facing some boredom though as my day to day work activities are feeling way too repetitive. Then I see people doing some ground-breaking nutrition research and getting their names in the paper and I think - I want to be there.
So that's the avenue I am about to explore.

[panda]

I've been wondering about this a lot and I can't quite
find a satisfactory resolution yet.

Knowing that someday I will die, and that time is quite
unpredictable, I want to live a worthy life.
So what makes you enthusiastic to wake up in the morning
and start your day? How do you find purpose in your life?
You should ask Hypnos.

(Or Hustler, if you'd like the malevolent/extreme response.)

[distraction tactics]

That is right. I'm asking everyone here what make them enthusiastic about your life? Is it a nice beer after a long day? Is it the annual holiday in a faraway tropical island after a year long hardwork? Is it an inherent satisfaction that you gained in doing your job? Is it a loving hug from your significant other?

Simply the experience of life. There is nothing grand in the large scheme of things, but given you have the power to make things interesting, why not go with that? Do some crazy things, have kids; die knowing you did it as well as anyone else.

[Zephyrus055]

For a NT, being ingenius, autonomous, and resolute produces self esteem and purpose.

[Purple-Silver Fox]

"Why" is a question not applicable to life.
Keep that in mind, regardless what you think.

Whatever you do, you are.

[Purple-Silver Fox]

"Why" is a question not applicable to life.
Keep that in mind, regardless what you are thinking.

Whatever you do, you are.

[Zero Angel]

I don't know, but making an impact gives me purpose. Having the ability to have impact on my projects, to not just affect it, but to effect it. Ingenuity, autonomy feed my abiliity to be resolute and confident and carry out my plans. To know that 'I exist' to everyone and am not just some faceless human in the scheme of things.

It seems to me that the basic needs of the temperaments have an effect on what gives their lives meaning. My mother is an ESFJ, and one of the purposes of her life is to care for something and ensure happiness of those around her. This, to some degree, is a purpose of many people's lives, to make it better (especially for those who possess Fe). However, for SFJ's it seems, that this takes a high amount of importance.

For us, I suppose, the purpose would be to effect change or generally matter in the large scheme of things. Even if this 'largeness' is the respect of our community or wherever we choose to be involved.

I guess whatever brings happiness (not just pleasure) to us, also brings purpose and meaning, and vice-versa.

[red]

I want to live a worthy life.
So what makes you enthusiastic to wake up in the morning
and start your day? How do you find purpose in your life?
What makes us happy is not necessairly what is going to make you happy.
Additinally, what is supposed to make us happy isn't necessarily going to make you happy. It's better to ask yourself what makes you happy instead of trying to conform with the desires of your fellow INTP. Opinions can misguide you into thinking that what (they say) makes you happy too.
ie. I like watching star wars. You watch star wars. You don't like it but your supposed to so you convince yourself that you like star wars.
What i'm trying to say is gathering someone elses opinion in such a matter will not necessarily help you and may even misguide you in leading a pathetic life. The best thing to do is try new things until you find that something that makes you happy instead of asking of others what makes them happy because your not necessairly the same as any of us.

[afton]

What makes us happy is not necessairly what is going to make you happy.
Additinally, what is supposed to make us happy isn't necessarily going to make you happy. It's better to ask yourself what makes you happy instead of trying to conform with the desires of your fellow INTP. Opinions can misguide you into thinking that what (they say) makes you happy too.


Of course, of course. I already knew that. If there's one thing that
INTP hates, it's to conform. But so far, I haven't really found that
sense of meaning of life. I just want to know what others are
enthusiastic about. A bit like a musician trying to find inspiration
by listening to other music.

Okay maybe I better reframe the question :
do you like your current job? and what makes you love your job?

[Zero Angel]

If you were to look for "a good job", and you were looking for exactly that. Doesn't the possibility present itself, that you would never find this "good job" until you started to define criteria for this? (ie: fair degree of autonomy, decent pay, capacity to innovate).

Thus isn't the search for 'meaning' itself, something that is so vague, that you would never ever find it unless you started to define criteria for what meaning is?

[Enigma]

I would recommend reading one of Csikszentmihalyi's books on Flow. Essentially, he says that in stretching yourself beyond your capability (but not so far that you have no hope of success) you can become one with an activity or enter a "state of flow" and achieve happiness. Passive activities such as watching movies, drinking, etc. may provide momentary pleasure but do not lead to happiness. As for what specifically should be your purpose, only you can decide. Explore.........explore..........explore...........

[Zero Angel]

I forgot all about flow states. Entering a flow state is one of the most blissful things that i've ever experienced. It happens when i'm alone and i'm playing the guitar, and even when my inner extrovert cries out for human contact and gets that contact. I become witty, and charming, and enthusiastic and every thing, my thoughts, become clear.

"Being transparent, innocently allowing magic to flow through me rather than needing to create it"

Yeah, flow states are the bomb.

[sasapurdue]

I've been wondering about this a lot and I can't quite
find a satisfactory resolution yet.

Knowing that someday I will die, and that time is quite
unpredictable, I want to live a worthy life.
So what makes you enthusiastic to wake up in the morning
and start your day? How do you find purpose in your life?

I like that you brought this up. I spend most of my time wondering what it means to exist and what it means to be a human individual. To me it is the central question and really the only question I have always and will always concern myself with.
Some others have said that the meaning of life is the meaning that you assign to it. I think the meaning is different for everyone, and I think every lifetime that you live is meant to be another lesson in your soul's journey.
For me what is most important is trying to be the most honest person I can be in every aspect of my life. It's about being a good friend, companion, family member to every person I care about, even when it is not "convenient" for me. It is about trying to understand perspectives that are different than mine, and trying to have empathy for every other human being and creature even those that are not personally close to me. It's also about being present in every moment and being thankful for the many wonderful aspects of my life. I don't even come close to being successful at this but I am trying and I am making some progress.
I am sure for you the "point" will be something quite different and I am sure that none of us will ever really know the Answer. I also feel that the biggest step you can take toward being a "worthy" (using your words) person is to be asking just the questions that your are. Not that I am some wise old sage, that is just what I think.

[afton]

If you were to look for "a good job", and you were looking for exactly that. Doesn't the possibility present itself, that you would never find this "good job" until you started to define criteria for this? (ie: fair degree of autonomy, decent pay, capacity to innovate).

Thus isn't the search for 'meaning' itself, something that is so vague, that you would never ever find it unless you started to define criteria for what meaning is?

Alright, maybe I should refined it even further. I think it is my longing
to achieve what Abraham Maslow termed as "self actualization".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs#Self-actualization

[afton]

I would recommend reading one of Csikszentmihalyi's books on Flow. Essentially, he says that in stretching yourself beyond your capability (but not so far that you have no hope of success) you can become one with an activity or enter a "state of flow" and achieve happiness. Passive activities such as watching movies, drinking, etc. may provide momentary pleasure but do not lead to happiness. As for what specifically should be your purpose, only you can decide. Explore.........explore..........explore...........

Ah you hit the nail in the head, Enigma!
Yes, the flow experience. I haven't experience that for a loonng time and
I need that stimulation back.
So maybe an even better question:
What kind of activities bring you to that state of flow?

and PS. I wonder if this "flow" has any correlation with the
Archimedes' Eureka moment or Zen Buddhists' Satori moments.

[Neppy]

The meaning of life...

TO CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES, SEE THEM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU, AND TO HEAR THE LAMENTATIONS OF THEIR WOMEN!

[Hypnos]

Flow sounds very zen-y. An attendant concept is "zanshin," or the practice of completeness. Happiness comes by making the difficult effortless.

I find that to be rather simplistic -- there are joyful things apart from that, including beer. Rather than focusing on some singular principle, focus on the feeling. Certainly, easier said than done, esp. for thinking types, who tend towards rationalism.

[MistWraith]

Conquest.

[Zephyrus055]

Conquest. Conquering what???

[Zephyrus055]

Anything I can. Like???

[MistWraith]

Like???

Sorry, accidentally deleted my other post. Don't know how I did it, but I did.

Anyway, if I'm being too vague, it's because I can't quite put into words what I really mean. The power to overcome anything, is the simplest way I can put it.

[Zephyrus055]

Sorry, accidentally deleted my other post. Don't know how I did it, but I did. That's ok http://forums.intpcentral.com/images/smilies/smile.gif.


Anyway, if I'm being too vague, it's because I can't quite put into words what I really mean. The power to overcome anything, is the simplest way I can put it. Oh I see. So you basically yearn to be an accomplished individual living a life of significance?

I'm that way, except I'm too damn lazy to make anything of myself, lol.

[MistWraith]

Oh I see. So you basically yearn to be an accomplished individual living a life of significance?

I'm that way, except I'm too damn lazy to make anything of myself, lol.

An accomplished individual with some form of power or another. :)

I was lazy at one time myself, but I grew out of it with age. Now I just procrastinate, but I've been slowly growing out of that, too.

[illusivemind]

Flow sounds very zen-y. An attendant concept is "zanshin," or the practice of completeness. Happiness comes by making the difficult effortless.

I find that to be rather simplistic -- there are joyful things apart from that, including beer. Rather than focusing on some singular principle, focus on the feeling. Certainly, easier said than done, esp. for thinking types, who tend towards rationalism.

Depends what you mean by happiness. If you mean 'enjoyment' as in the sensation of pleasure then 'stretching yourself beyond your capability' certainly doesn't seem to apply. But that's not what 'happiness' means to me.

I agree that it can only come about by 'stretching yourself beyond your capability' because this means moving out of your comfort zone. Those achievments within your comfort zone aren't all that fulfilling and promote more comfort rather than any kind of lasting happiness.

But these ideas are so vague and personal, that nothing beyond subjectivity
is likely to emerge.

[Zephyrus055]

An accomplished individual with some form of power or another. :) Indeed. That would be great http://forums.intpcentral.com/images/smilies/smile.gif.


I was lazy at one time myself, but I grew out of it with age. Now I just procrastinate, but I've been slowly growing out of that, too. Wow! That is amazing. I never knew it was possible for an INTP. How'd you manage to pull it off?

[Apostasius]

The meaning of life...

TO CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES, SEE THEM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU, AND TO HEAR THE LAMENTATIONS OF THEIR WOMEN!

"Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you will remember, if we were good men, or bad. Why we fought, or how we died. No, all that matters is, that two stood against many. That's what's important. Valour pleases you Crom, so grant me one request, grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, then the hell with you!"

[MistWraith]

Wow! That is amazing. I never knew it was possible for an INTP. How'd you manage to pull it off?

Another part of me that didn't manifest until later on. When I want to be bothered, I have a "take charge" side to my personality (this doesn't mean controlling anyone else). Not sure yet if it's life experience that made me that way, because normally I don't want to be bothered. I know I am quite the chameleon, so to speak. There's still so much about myself I'm learning through the MBTI system.

[CosmicDust]

I start my day out of habit, really. And because reasons not to start my day aren't strong enough to overcome my fear of dying.

Otherwise, I am motivated by the challenge of learning how to enjoy and cope with life better - coming up with ideas, maybe on occasion sort of testing one.

[aether]

Behold.....I bring you the answer to the ultimate question... :think:

[Hypnos]

Depends what you mean by happiness. If you mean 'enjoyment' as in the sensation of pleasure then 'stretching yourself beyond your capability' certainly doesn't seem to apply. But that's not what 'happiness' means to me.
I mean enjoyment in the sense of what feels good, which isn't quite "pleasure." Sometimes pain is pleasurable, as well as not pleasurable but still a good feeling -- hence my current activities :)


But these ideas are so vague and personal, that nothing beyond subjectivity
is likely to emerge.
Indeed -- work for poets.

[illusivemind]

I mean enjoyment in the sense of what feels good, which isn't quite "pleasure." Sometimes pain is pleasurable, as well as not pleasurable but still a good feeling -- hence my current activities :)

Wow, that could be construed as disturbing! Only of course if one finds masochism disturbing... :blink:

[Hypnos]

Wow, that could be construed as disturbing! Only of course if one finds masochism disturbing... :blink:
Two examples of such "pleasures": doing a really nasty physics calculation, and powering through a heavy set in the weight room.

No doubt there is some reinforcing neurochemical reaction associated with these things, but it seems to be more than simple pleasure. PET studies to follow, of course ... :)

[PromiscuousMind]

(A couple of people have touched on the two topics that particularly caught my attention, so I’m not gonna quote directly.)

I’m not sure if I quite am in tune with the “flow” and resulting happiness. But, I definitely think there is something in challenging yourself. I think that may be one of my issues now – while I’m perhaps focusing on “pushing the envelope” for myself academically/career-wise right now, I think maybe I’m playing too safe personally.

I think that I felt most “alive” during the time that I was really stretching myself in my personal life. Even when it was painful, it was interesting and it drove me doggedly forward. I wouldn’t say that state was conducive to overall happiness. But there sure was meaning!

The other thought I kind of summarize as “the greatest revenge is success”. Striving to reach a level of “power” where I can crush anything(one!) that dares incur my wrath… or just to have the smug satisfaction of outdoing someone in their own game. That’s something that can keep me trudging along. But it’s sort of a shameful motivation – one certainly with foundations in insecurity.

[RottenApple]

The other thought I kind of summarize as “the greatest revenge is success”. Striving to reach a level of “power” where I can crush anything(one!) that dares incur my wrath… or just to have the smug satisfaction of outdoing someone in their own game. That’s something that can keep me trudging along. But it’s sort of a shameful motivation – one certainly with foundations in insecurity.

It's facinating to me how much of a drive insecurity is in humans...we never admit it, but it is.

I often like to ponder on the subject of motivation, and so far I have identified four or five basic engines of human drive.
Instinct( motivates you to pull your hand away from the fire )
Fear ( motivates you to build the fire in a safe place )
Pleasure ( motivates you to warm your hands near the flames)
Insecurity ( motivates you to make your fire bigger than your friends)

Insecurity is an interesting one. It's almost like nature has built in this bizzare 'need to like yourself'. I think of it as the 'battery of life'. What you are at any given point and what you would like to be to achieve 'true self love', are almost like negative and positive poles on a battery. I fear, that if we removed insecurity from the human race, that is, if we all had total self-security all the time, our society would collapse.

Our clothing factories would shut down..we'd all wear simple cheap practical clothing.
Our Universities would be virtually empty... only a few of us, motivated by the pleasure of curiosity, would attend (and probabaly would'nt write the exams ... only read the text books and attemd the lectures).
Would we date?, get married ?, would we even socialise?, what cars would we drive? , What carreers would we have?

[kuranes]

I frequently struggle with the question "What will give my life meaning and what will make it satisfying to me and feel like I have done something of value to me?"

And philosophically life has not inherent meaning, I am the author of life's meaning.

But as you said this doesn't necessarily make it easier. I see my father and brother do the things is life that they believe God has made them for - wouldn't this be so much easier, having this belief? But I don't.

Is it money? Money has never inspired me. I think of all the jobs I have had where I could now be getting a lot more money, but the thought of a lot of money doing something where minute by minute I'm not inspired is unbearable.

I tend to have always gone with my current interest. But just gathering information on some current interest although interesting does not give great satisfaction. It is combining a current interest with a project that is challenging and pushes me to achieve beyond where I have been before that gives me the greatest sense of fulfillment. Plus I need to have a sense that what I am doing contributes is some way, makes an impact in a wider circle in a positive way that has others be admiring or grateful.

Starting my own business in nutrition fulfilled those three requirements for me. Plus I get to read more and more info/ research on this huge topic which I find is continually fascinating.

Right now I am facing some boredom though as my day to day work activities are feeling way too repetitive. Then I see people doing some ground-breaking nutrition research and getting their names in the paper and I think - I want to be there.
So that's the avenue I am about to explore.

I found your post insightful of my own condition, and I'm glad one of us was able to see a solution.

I have some knowledge of nutrition - although there seems to be a lot of contradictory info floating around out there. Did you need much of a nest egg to start your biz? How do you market it? I know there's a lot of these MLM's, or things like that, which give you curiosity seekers from the internet as leads. Is that what you are involved in? It would be interesting to see how it is working for you.

People often feel pressured to "manufacture" good results in the early days on these things I described above, because they depend on you signing up others, and one of the first questions people will ask is "How much money have you made on this so far?" Of course your biz may be completely different.

[kuranes]

"Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you will remember, if we were good men, or bad. Why we fought, or how we died. No, all that matters is, that two stood against many. That's what's important. Valour pleases you Crom, so grant me one request, grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, then the hell with you!"

Devil take you and thrice damned Python. I am on your trail, and I mean to hang your hide on a bramble bush!

[joft]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meaning_of_life

[kuranes]

I forgot all about flow states. Entering a flow state is one of the most blissful things that i've ever experienced. It happens when i'm alone and i'm playing the guitar, and even when my inner extrovert cries out for human contact and gets that contact. I become witty, and charming, and enthusiastic and every thing, my thoughts, become clear.

"Being transparent, innocently allowing magic to flow through me rather than needing to create it"

Yeah, flow states are the bomb.

Yes, so we should strive to find a career that allows us to be in such a state - and hopefully offers the usual competitive amenities also. I interviewed with a company that seems to be attempting this. Hopefully I will hear back from them. Meanwhile I am also having to interview with limited opportunities as well, just because they will at least produce some weekly/monthly income, and I cannot afford to continue waiting for the optimum. I almost hope that the one I don't really want will be uninterested. Will this cause me to sabotage my own presentation?

[kuranes]

Flow sounds very zen-y. An attendant concept is "zanshin," or the practice of completeness. Happiness comes by making the difficult effortless.

I find that to be rather simplistic -- there are joyful things apart from that, including beer. Rather than focusing on some singular principle, focus on the feeling. Certainly, easier said than done, esp. for thinking types, who tend towards rationalism.

What do you think about Zen, Hypnos? IS it more in the realm of poetry than Philosophy? ( I know that there is more than one kind of Zen also. )
I read of a "Zen master" who was able to regulate his Theta brain waves in a complex rhythm as part of a meditation, and I hear other anecdotes about such biosystem self-regulation. It's hard to discuss it, as you will see axioms such as "cessation of conscious focus is what will GIVE you focus" etc.

[kuranes]

If you were to look for "a good job", and you were looking for exactly that. Doesn't the possibility present itself, that you would never find this "good job" until you started to define criteria for this? (ie: fair degree of autonomy, decent pay, capacity to innovate).

Thus isn't the search for 'meaning' itself, something that is so vague, that you would never ever find it unless you started to define criteria for what meaning is?

This also ties in with my "Psychic Income" thread.

[Hypnos]

What do you think about Zen, Hypnos? IS it more in the realm of poetry than Philosophy? ( I know that there is more than one kind of Zen also. )
I don't know if there's much of a difference between the two Ps. :)

Zen (as I understand it) preaches the anti-ego: humility, service, prayer, meditation, and benevolence. I find this to be just as damaging as egotism, and the attendant pride, selfishness, self-absorption and malevolence. It's a false choice.

It's okay to want things, innovate and express frustration. It's also good to reflect, know your limitations and learn from others. They're all aspects of our behavior that serve a purpose in one setting or another. What doesn't work is not thinking for yourself, and stressing out because you're trying to live up to something that doesn't do it for you.

[Zephyrus055]

I think altruism and humility are the very personification of evil.

[panda]

I think altruism and humility are the very personification of evil.
And yet, you depend upon your family's altruism for survival...

[Zephyrus055]

And yet, you depend upon your family's altruism for survival... That's not altruism. Altruism requires that the subject is first a parasite, if not then it follows that the assistance given is synergistic or biological, and therefore selfish.

[panda]

That's not altruism. Altruism requires that the subject is first a parasite, if not then it follows that the assistance given is synergistic or biological, and therefore selfish.
What benefit is your family receiving in funding your college education? How is your relationship with them synergistic?

[Zephyrus055]

What benefit is your family receiving in funding your college education? How is your relationship with them synergistic? The main component here is biological.

[panda]

The main component here is biological.
Biologically rooted altruism is still altruism.


al·tru·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ltr-zm)
n.

1. Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness.
2. Zoology. Instinctive cooperative behavior that is detrimental to the individual but contributes to the survival of the species.

[Zero Angel]

Thanks for posting those definitions, EC.

I was gonna say that giving and so expecting to recieve as a result of that giving is but one form of altruism, but is not the definition of it. Some people have given their lives so that others can live, I do not see what is so advantageous about death, or even fame that you cannot live to enjoy.

[Zephyrus055]

Biologically rooted altruism is still altruism. I still argue that it's egocentric, because the action proceeds from the interests of the individual, whether it be conscious or instinctive.

[Hypnos]

I agree with Imp55 here -- all altruistic acts are ultimately psychologically egoistic.

That is, unless you're unhappy doing it ;D

[panda]

I agree with Imp55 here -- all altruistic acts are ultimately psychologically egoistic.

That is, unless you're unhappy doing it ;D
Actually, psychological egoism *is* my position. My initial response was based on this:


I think altruism and humility are the very personification of evil.

I was playing devil's advocate, if you will. Once you get deep enough, this is basically a game of semantics.

[Hypnos]

So is altruism without humility altruistic?

[panda]

So is altruism without humility altruistic?
No, because it's selfish; It's all about reinforcing the ego.*

Again, this entire topic seems semantical. Being as how we can't truly know another's motivation, any supposition becomes a matter of definition.


*Loaded with assumptions, of course, but posited for the sake of argument.

[Hypnos]

Again, this entire topic seems semantical. Being as how we can't truly know another's motivation, any supposition becomes a matter of definition.
Though, can't an individual reflect upon his own motivations?

[panda]

Though, can't an individual reflect upon his own motivations?
Do you think it's possible for humans to be that honest with themselves? How we define our motivations seems irretrievably tied up with our conceptual framework (of reality), which is loaded with biases.

[tinribz]

If you want a meaningful purpose in life then strive to end suffering. I can't think of a more noble or righteous cause.

The greatest achiever would be Jesus. I often toy with the idea the whole spiritual thing was simply a master stroke in psychological motivation to get the less rational types to follow his moral philosophy. I mean who really takes any notice of the humanists?

[Zephyrus055]

If you want a meaningful purpose in life then strive to end human suffering. I can't think of a more noble or righteous cause.

The greatest achiever would be Jesus. I often toy with the idea the whole spiritual thing simply a just a master stroke in psychology to get the less rational types to follow his philosophy. I mean who really takes any notice of the humanists? I would never end human suffering, unless it served my benefit.

[panda]

If you want a meaningful purpose in life then strive to end human suffering. I can't think of a more noble or righteous cause.
How could suffering possibly be ended? We would have to divorce ourselves from the reality we exist in.

[tinribz]

I would never end human suffering, unless it served my benefit.

You will suffer eternal damnation...

[Zephyrus055]

You will suffer eternal damnation... I doubt it. God doesn't exist. He won't hurt me for being human.

[tinribz]

How could suffering possibly be ended? We would have to divorce ourselves from the reality we exist in.

I never said it was possible to end it completely but there is more than enugh unnecessary suffering going around.

[panda]

How could suffering possibly be ended? We would have to divorce ourselves from the reality we exist in.
In fact, I'll go one step further, the only way to cease suffering is to die. Suffering is an inevitable byproduct of the ego.

[panda]

there is more than enugh unnecessary suffering going around.
I agree with that.

[tinribz]

I doubt it. God doesn't exist. He won't hurt me for being human.

Obviously there is no god but but this thread is about meaning and purpose of life. I still say with or without one there is no better than to end suffering.

The point I was makinig was religion provides motivation to most for moral behaviour to meet this end. For you there might be a more rational requirement. Maybe when you have children you will come round.

[tinribz]

In fact, I'll go one step further, the only way to cease suffering is to die. Suffering is an inevitable byproduct of the ego.

It is paradoxically true that to end suffering we would have to make all life extict!

[panda]

It is paradoxically true that to end suffering we would have to make all life extict!
The extreme Utilitarian position.

[Trystorp]

Check out the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (http://www.vhemt.org/).

[Hypnos]

Do you think it's possible for humans to be that honest with themselves? How we define our motivations seems irretrievably tied up with our conceptual framework (of reality), which is loaded with biases.
Hence the value of reality checks.

[panda]

Check out the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (http://www.vhemt.org/).
After reading through some of that site, I can't even begin to articulate how misguided I think that movement is.

[panda]

Hence the value of reality checks.
Would you mind expounding on that? I value your viewpoint.

[Hypnos]

Would you mind expounding on that? I value your viewpoint.
Well, you think you want something, then you become intimate with it. Even if you comprehended things clearly beforehand, the feeling in the moment is not what you expected. To give an example, you go out with the popular chick. She's as shallow and needy as you expected, but you don't feel much pride in the envious looks you generate. Makes you reevaluate what's important to you.

[panda]

Well, you think you want something, then you become intimate with it. Even if you comprehended things clearly beforehand, the feeling in the moment is not what you expected. To give an example, you go out with the popular chick. She's as shallow and needy as you expected, but you don't feel much pride in the envious looks you generate. Makes you reevaluate what's important to you.
I have difficulty being honest with myself, which is why I was curious about your take on it.


EDIT: I'm not satisfied with my post, at all, but I'm too tired to scrutinize it.

[afton]

Evolutionary biologically speaking, the purpose of life is
to produce another life, by passing our genes through
sexual intercourse. Somehow with the invention of birth
control pill and other effective methods of contraceptions,
more and more people are opting not to have children.
But of course for forever, people are still very interested in the
sexual intercourse part, although not the product of it.

I found that kinda amusing.

[illusivemind]

Evolutionary biologically speaking, the purpose of life is
to produce another life, by passing our genes through
sexual intercourse. Somehow with the invention of birth
control pill and other effective methods of contraceptions,
more and more people are opting not to have children.
But of course for forever, people are still very interested in the
sexual intercourse part, although not the product of it.

I found that kinda amusing.

I think it's a mistake to think of purpose in this way, possibly even think of life in this way.

Are we really talking about life in the sense of everything that is not inorganic? Or are we talking about life meaning your life, my life, the conscious existence of a human being?

Let's suppose we are, the same biological considerations apply of course, reproduction. A human being is simply an advanced holding device designed to replicate DNA (I'm using the word 'design' very loosely here!).

But is that in itself a purpose? Why does DNA replicate? It just seems to be really good at it and everything else is a by-product of that fact.

Does this help us to understand the conscious experience we call life that we live every day? Well the conscious experience is another by-product of the accidents of evolution, but we don't really understand it all that well.

I mean, if reproduction was our only purpose, then why are we able to sit around wondering about our purpose, is what we call 'life' just an ancillary afterthought?

In terms of biology it probably is, we don't yet know enough about it to be sure. This means (according to me) that there is no extant purpose behind the experience of life waiting to be discovered. Such an idea can only exist as an adjunct to the whole of evolution.

Maybe it doesn't even make sense to think of purpose in this way as it necessitates reasoning behind the physical universe that non-religious types cannot accept. Even the religious types don't have good answers as to why the whole 'love me' experiment was started in the first place.

But until we figure out a way to be content with nothingness, we have more than an abundant supply of meanings and purposes that will do the job.

Choose wisely.

[tinribz]

Going with the evolutionary thing, if you were to invent one of those self reproducing mutating evolutionary software programs then I guess it's purpose would be to see how far it would go and if the end result would be interesting or useful.

So we can only assume that if god exists we are some amusing experiment and our purpose is to entertain.

If life was the result of a probable accident then there is no 'purpose' as such. Our existence is just an inevitable chain reaction given the nature and make up of the universe.

I can cope with either, still happy to be part of it and the latter does not lessen in anyway what it means to be 'human'.

[Dman]

How about we begin trying to end unnecessary suffering by throwing out this thread

[euterpenc]

How about we begin trying to end unnecessary suffering by throwing out this thread

but there's no joy without suffering..

[illusivemind]

I don't understand what you mean by suffering.
I know what pain is and I know why it exists to an extent. But what is this 'suffering' business?

[euterpenc]

I don't understand what you mean by suffering.
I know what pain is and I know why it exists to an extent. But what is this 'suffering' business?

I think pain and suffering equate to about the same thing.

[aether]

Purpose in life is to achieve and maintain peace of mind.

[euterpenc]

Purpose in life is to achieve and maintain peace of mind.

Yeah, something like that.

Well, now that that problem's been solved...