Electrostatic Propulsion

[trendal]

I've seen plans and talk on the net about "lifter" devices for quite some time now, but after seeing an acquaintance's attempt (and failure) I've decided to try it out myself.

Figured I would post my effort/results here, in case anyone is interested.

The design of a basic lifter is quite simple. I made mine as small as possible to cut on weight (the lifting effect is not very strong):
http://www.trendal.org/img/lifter/CIMG0200.jpg

As you can see it is just a small triangle made of straws, with some tinfoil and wire attached. The tinfoil is connected to ground potential. The top wire (corona) is charged to about 30,000 volts. When the wire is charged, the entire device is supposed to lift into the air.

I've read a few different explanations as to how and why this works, but I am quite confident that it involves ionization of the air surrounding the corona wire. The ionized gas is then accelerated downwards towards the tinfoil plate. I think it is this downward movement of air through the device which causes the lifting effect.

The power supply:
http://www.trendal.org/img/lifter/CIMG0293.jpg

I haven't had a chance to test it out yet, as I have only just finished the power supply (it's a rather simple one, but I was missing a flyback transformer to use). I plan on testing it by this weekend, and will post the results at that time.

If anyone is interested in trying something like this, I got most of my information from this site: http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/main.htm

(To add my own Disclaimer: I hold no responsibility for any damages or injury you or anyone else may suffer if you attempt to build and/or use one of these. Very high voltages are involved - around 30kV - and the risk of shock is quite high if you don't know what you are doing. Don't try it if you don't have any experience with high-voltage safety.)

[panda]

Awesome.

I used to play around with electronics quite a bit. (I studied electronics at a vocational school, back in the day.)

I think I may try that out, soon.

[Blue]

If you need help anywhere along the line:
http://forum.4hv.org/
As far as I can see, this board has the most technical (Electronics, computer, engineering, chemistry, ect) experiance of any on the internet. Make sure you read the rules though as the administration is mostly extreme Js and will come down on you, hard. See if you can spot me there, my handle rhymes with Noo.

+Blue

[nobarcode]

I wonder if this device will collect more dust than an Ionic Breeze...

I'll have to try this. The links are cool too, both of them. Thanks.

[trendal]

I finally got the HV supply working, though I doubt I'm getting much over 15kV right now. I may try to re-design a bit and change the input voltage from 12v to 24v to see how that works out. About all I can do right now is draw nice inch-long arcs from the HV output - http://www.trendal.org/img/lifter/arc.avi

I tried out two separate lifters, one about 4g and one about 2g in weight.

Neither showed any signs of movement.

I tried setting the smaller one on my pocket scale to take weight measurements while the HV was on...and instead of losing weight it actually went up about 1/4 of a gram. That may be due to RF interference, as it is a digital scale, but I would expect to see more erratic behavior if it was interference. The weight would go up from 2.22g to 2.56g over a span of 5 seconds after applying voltage, and then drop back down to 2.22 within 5 seconds of turning off the power. The weight change was consistent across 5 attempts.

[cryokinetic]

I finally got the HV supply working, though I doubt I'm getting much over 15kV right now. I may try to re-design a bit and change the input voltage from 12v to 24v to see how that works out. About all I can do right now is draw nice inch-long arcs from the HV output - http://www.trendal.org/img/lifter/arc.avi

I tried out two separate lifters, one about 4g and one about 2g in weight.

Neither showed any signs of movement.

I tried setting the smaller one on my pocket scale to take weight measurements while the HV was on...and instead of losing weight it actually went up about 1/4 of a gram. That may be due to RF interference, as it is a digital scale, but I would expect to see more erratic behavior if it was interference. The weight would go up from 2.22g to 2.56g over a span of 5 seconds after applying voltage, and then drop back down to 2.22 within 5 seconds of turning off the power. The weight change was consistent across 5 attempts.
The increase in apparent mass may be due to an increase in weight cause by the propulsion effect (whatever that may be) trying to exert a downward force but not lifting the object.

[Geek Engineer]

I looked into these lifters once a while back, and was always going to build one and never got around to it as usual. I don't remember if the ones I had seen on the web had more of stand off on the bottom. By that I mean the whole thing sort of works like a jet engine so you need a way for the air to exit the bottom I would think. Not sure what your setup is of course, but if it is like your picture I would extend the straws some on the bottom. *shrug* If you still have problems things you might look at is using the higher voltage of 30KV in order to ionize the air with enough force, your generator may need to be able to supply more current, and you may need to make your lifter bigger.

The funny things about these lifters is there is a lot of bogus information out there. The main one I found was some people think this thing is going to work great out in space. I finally found one web sight that tried running one in a vacuum to test this theory and it didn't work. It needs some sort of gas to moving through it to create a thrust. Maybe if you build one big enough to be able to capture and use the small amounts of matter in space then maybe that would be useful.

[cryokinetic]

The funny things about these lifters is there is a lot of bogus information out there. The main one I found was some people think this thing is going to work great out in space. I finally found one web sight that tried running one in a vacuum to test this theory and it didn't work. It needs some sort of gas to moving through it to create a thrust. Maybe if you build one big enough to be able to capture and use the small amounts of matter in space then maybe that would be useful.
You're thinking of a Bussard Ramjet (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A600436)

[Blue]

*Cough* Recruiting for www.keenhack.com *Cough*

+Blue