Ladies I need some advice please

[Aryan]

I am having a crush on a girl in my locality and I just want to impress her.
But I just dont know what do girls expect of a boy.
I just dont know how to approach her.
( I dont know her MBTI type either )

Girls can you help me please ? :wub:
I just want to know what qualities do girls like in boys.
Like character, comminucation, anything ...
What do I need to actually impress a girl
I am not having enough confidence in me

Any advice will be greatly appreciated ?
:wub:

PS:
Is it ok for me to post a message in the Women's only section, coz I just wanted to know their views ? Or is it restricted to girls only, no guys allowed?

[Jezebel]

Is it ok for me to post a message in the Women's only section, coz I just wanted to know their views ? Or is it restricted to girls only, no guys allowed?

Personally, I don't care and I like it when the guys give their perspective on some of the posts here too. And guys post in here all the time.

As for your question, I don't think it's possible to tell someone if you do "x", it will impress a girl. Everyone is different. My advice would be not to come across as trying to hard, most girls don't seem to like that much. Well at least I don't. Maybe you should just try talking to her instead and find out what she likes? Ask her out so you can get to know her?

[Avengardh]

Is it ok for me to post a message in the Women's only section, coz I just wanted to know their views ? Or is it restricted to girls only, no guys allowed?

Personally, I don't care and I like it when the guys give their perspective on some of the posts here too. And guys post in here all the time.

As for your question, I don't think it's possible to tell someone if you do "x", it will impress a girl. Everyone is different. My advice would be not to come across as trying to hard, most girls don't seem to like that much. Well at least I don't. Maybe you should just try talking to her instead and find out what she likes? Ask her out so you can get to know her?

I second Jez.

[Birdsnest]

;)

The first date or two are key in what type of impression a person leaves on another, so for that reason, I do not suggest just a casual attitude. I suggest a well planned, full of surprises, fun daring sweep her off her feet type date. If you do that for the first 2-3 dates, then mellow down and do more normal things, she will ALWAYS remember you for the interesting fun date you gave her. Always, forever.

Ask what type of music she likes. Find out what concerts are playing in your area with her type of music. The next time you meet, tell her there is a concert playing that you can get tickets to, and if she would like to go with you.

Then plan a really magical night. I mean, maybe make her a candle light dinner with shrimp curry and fine wine at your house, and set the mood. If you can't cook, perhaps take her to a steakhouse. Then go to the concert and take her back home. By the end of the date you will be able to tell if she is receptive to you, and either make another date, or let it go. Ask a lot of questions about what type of person she is, ie, likes people, or privacy, likes to save or spend, what her hobbies are, what she likes to do, her political preferences, religion, etc. Talk a lot in the car on the way home from the concert and at the point of dropping her off, you can ask if she'd like to go out again. If not, tell her you had a good time and thank her and get her number if you think there is more to it.

For some of you who don't think its nice for men to spend $ on the first several dates, the reasoning is, that it makes a big impression to have the very first few dates really dazzling. If its dull, she doesn't have much of an impression of you. Do something exciting, maybe pick her up in a limo and go to an amusement park, something crazy and different and fun, maybe a picnic on a golfcourse at midnight, who knows. It doesn't have to mean you spend a lot of money, but depending on the type of girl, and the neighborhood she is from, money can be important, but a well planned night at least will make it successful. If you are creative, think of something different and fun so it will leave an impression.

At the end of a date, maybe the 2nd or 3rd one, a massage exchange in candlelight after the concert also could leave a nice impression. Of course, this is all after you've established that you have her interested. Sit close, put your arms around her, kiss in a long warm kiss, and make it last.

Oh, and someone mentioned good hygiene, brush teeth, mouth rinse, non-cologne type deoderant, (ie Toms of Maine), non-smelly feet, and please don't wear cologne, everyone knows that cologne is a coverup for something bad, and that the smell of your own skin is far better and more appealing. Make a list of a few things about yourself you can tell her that make an interesting story. Try to disclose exactly equally, if she says something personal, you then try saying something personal, and if she doesn't disclose at the same level you are, then you don't. You can tell if you have her interest if she trusts you enough to tell you things about herself.

[floyd]

live your life and wait till you notice a girl is interested in you (and if you like her pursue it)... courting women is a waste of time intps are not generic enough or desperate enough to be successful at squiring a girl that is not already very interested in them. and never pay for her meal, or mimick dating rituals, you are an intp, not a extraverted-droid, honestly if someone likes you, you don't need to follow cultural cliches to win their affection, it already is there.

anyone who is not repulsive can possibly create an artificial atmosphere that will make someone like them. however, you will eventually get sick of doing that and that person will stop liking you, and you will have wasted your time and their time (and the experience gained is not useful unless you want to keep living an artificial life). focus on self development, then you will have more possible dating options in the long run.

[Jezebel]

live your life and wait till you notice a girl is interested in you (and if you like her pursue it)... courting women is a waste of time intps are not generic enough or desperate enough to be successful at squiring a girl that is not already very interested in them.

This is a good way to be single for a long time. Don't expect girls to initiate everything, especially other introverts. Sometimes they're interested in a guy and expect him to make the first move so don't show it. It sucks sometimes, and I'm not saying it's how it should be, but it's often how it is.

I also think it's inaccurate to think that all INTPs have the same expectations when it comes to relationships. I've read what some of you want in ideal mates, and much of it doesn't appeal to me at all. I also think that my boyfriend would drive a lot of the other INTP girls nuts, but he fits perfectly into what I want in a relationship so far.

Personally, I'm not into romance with someone who is pretty much a stranger. If a guy went all out for me on a first date without even knowing me, I would think it reeked of desperation. It's not that I don't want a guy to treat me nice, but it would just feel like he was trying to hard too woo me and that he would do it for any girl, rather than just because he really liked me as a person. But, that's just my tastes and I know a lot of girls would think differently.

Anyways, if you do decide to make a move on her (holding hands, kiss, whatever), DON'T ASK. It seriously kills the mood, imo.

[floyd]

it's about meeting in the middle, and that only works if both people are interested. unplanned collisions may be the only natural relationships. most people are pathless generic reward zombies, and therefore endlessly interchangeable. but if you have any internal direction, deep motives in life, i think staying single until you find/collide with someone going a similar way is more sensible than involvements with people that don't fit your internal direction (who will waste your time in the long run). i think you can use relationships like one uses drugs, for temporary amusement, so long as both parties know thats what it is about (and can handle it).

and intellectualizing things can kill the mood (with some), but intelligent people are not mood dominated. if you don't get into someone's head, you don't know who they are, and getting involved with someone before knowing them (or clarifying the situation on both sides) can have undesirable consequences far greater than 'killing the moment'.

[Jezebel]

it's about meeting in the middle, and that only works if both people are interested. unplanned collisions may be the only natural relationships. most people are pathless generic reward zombies, and therefore endlessly interchangeable. but if you have any internal direction, deep motives in life, i think staying single until you find/collide with someone going a similar way is more sensible than involvements with people that don't fit your internal direction (who will waste your time in the long run). i think you can use relationships like one uses drugs, for temporary amusement, so long as both parties know thats what it is about (and can handle it).

Someone has to make the first move and be the one to show interest in the other person. If both parties just assume that they're going to wait for the other person to show interest before they do, then you may never even get to know the other person well enough to know if they are compatible. By saying not to show you're interested in someone until they do, you're just leaving the other person to do the work.

I agree that you shouldn't be in relationships with people you aren't compatible with, but you can't know that if you don't bother to get to know people.


and intellectualizing things can kill the mood (with some), but intelligent people are not mood dominated. if you don't get into someone's head, you don't know who they are, and getting involved with someone before knowing them (or clarifying the situation on both sides) can have undesirable consequences far greater than 'killing the moment'.

I know this isn't where you were going with this, but I just want to say, T does NOT equal intelligence. Not being emotional does NOT equal intelligence. People who are dominated by how they feel can be very intelligent.

What you say sounds more like insecurity issues rather than intellect issues. Someone pulling away from you when you get close to them isn't the end of the world.

[floyd]

you are painting this picture that you don't know whether they like you until you ask them out on a date, i don't agree. if you don't get the sense that they are interested, don't waste your time (or theirs).

if someone likes you, and is not emotionally unstable, they will at least make noticeable eye contact with you whenever you are around. even with traditional women (who will want the cliche dating experience), they will make their interest known. now, in the 'traditional' world you still have to say 'lets go out' to a cliche female but they will do their part to make it easier (hint at their interest, punch you in the arm, hang around, etc.). with less traditional, progressive women, i think the same rules you would use with friends work best. the traditional dating scenarios fit a culture where women are supported by and subserviant to men, if that is the culture (and type of woman) you want, follow those customs, if you prefer an independent self reliant woman, then don't follow those customs.

as to T/F, when the limbic system surges (feelings), the neocortex shuts down. feeling types are at a disadvantage, generally (not absolutely), compared to thinking types in cognitive tasks.

[BritainOphira]

I am having a crush on a girl in my locality and I just want to impress her.
But I just dont know what do girls expect of a boy.
I just dont know how to approach her.
( I dont know her MBTI type either )



If you don't really know her be sure to talk to her a couple times before asking her out so it's not entirely too awkward. To approach her just observe her and find something you can talk about (even if it's just her earrings or something random like that). No matter how trivial, it can lead to a longer conversation. Also, if you discover she can't speak in complete sentences, you know to stay far, far away...
Just be nice, be yourself, and don't try to consciously impress her (most people can tell when you are trying too hard), and everything should be fine.

[Utopmk]

I am having a crush on a girl in my locality and I just want to impress her.


Clean teeth, clean shoes, and a stylish wrist watch. Look her in the eye always. Don't talk about yourself too much. Confidence? Don't have it? Fake it until you make it, it seems to be very important...

[Six]

with less traditional, progressive women, i think the same rules you would use with friends work best.

well put, I totally agree :thumbup:

[libertarianjim]

Don't talk about yourself too much...

As my cousin is fond of saying: "Well, I've talked enough about myself. Why don't you talk about me for a while?"

[s]

http://www.netwalk.com/~truegger/ftrh/five-point.html :rofl:


Good luck!

[synchronous]

it's about meeting in the middle, and that only works if both people are interested. unplanned collisions may be the only natural relationships. most people are pathless generic reward zombies, and therefore endlessly interchangeable. but if you have any internal direction, deep motives in life, i think staying single until you find/collide with someone going a similar way is more sensible than involvements with people that don't fit your internal direction (who will waste your time in the long run). i think you can use relationships like one uses drugs, for temporary amusement, so long as both parties know thats what it is about (and can handle it).

and intellectualizing things can kill the mood (with some), but intelligent people are not mood dominated. if you don't get into someone's head, you don't know who they are, and getting involved with someone before knowing them (or clarifying the situation on both sides) can have undesirable consequences far greater than 'killing the moment'.

Question: How can you whitewash most of the population by calling them pathless generic zombies in one breath, then suggest you need to get into their heads to get to know them? A little contradictory, no?

Your reasoning sounds logical, but, the last time I checked, Love isn't too terribly logical. How often have you heard or witnessed someone say "I was struck by love", kinda like a smack across the head that shakes your noggin'. Then you find that person changing their life direction to accommodate their love's life path. I suppose if we all decided to have people fit into our internal direction, we could possibly never hook up...

[synchronous]

live your life and wait till you notice a girl is interested in you (and if you like her pursue it)... courting women is a waste of time intps are not generic enough or desperate enough to be successful at squiring a girl that is not already very interested in them. and never pay for her meal, or mimick dating rituals, you are an intp, not a extraverted-droid, honestly if someone likes you, you don't need to follow cultural cliches to win their affection, it already is there.

anyone who is not repulsive can possibly create an artificial atmosphere that will make someone like them. however, you will eventually get sick of doing that and that person will stop liking you, and you will have wasted your time and their time (and the experience gained is not useful unless you want to keep living an artificial life). focus on self development, then you will have more possible dating options in the long run.

If we lived in an ideal world where men and women were equals, it would be no problem to expect the woman to pay for her meal. But, in the real world, there is still a gender bias against females. Chances are, you will be making more money than your potential female mate. It would probably be wise to factor that in when dating her, and pay for her meal (especially if she is a bright but underachieving INTP. ;) ). If the woman insists on paying her own meal, then, there is nothing to argue.

Personally, I like creativity. If the date has an intriguing edge, outside traditional norms, I'm interested. But, there is nothing wrong with taking your date out to dinner. It is a great experience to enjoy the food, wine and general ambience of the place all the while in deep intellectual discussion, or possibly get inside the head of your date. Intelligent, creative people like this sort of stimulation too. They do it quite often in fact.

[floyd]

are you rationalizing your habit or desire to have people support you? regardless of the stereotypes, many men and women would probably elect to have other people bankroll them if they had the option.

the important question to an intelligent woman who might be on the fence of independence/dependence is - do you want to provide a model to a daughter or son of dependency.

[synchronous]

are you rationalizing your habit or desire to have people support you?

I'm doing what everyone else is doing - commenting. I think that's allowed in this forum. The poster was looking for advice, and I give him some from my perspective, which he can take or leave. You have the option of not responding to my comments if you don't like them, like I've opted not to respond to the last part of this one you've just provided.

[floyd]

where did i say don't post your comments? i was simply asking a question about your point of view.

[Slider]

you'd ask a girl on a date and then expect her to pay for her own meal?

[Boozer]

:rofl:

[floyd]

dating is for social robots/zombies... intelligent people hang out, they don't date. dating (where one party consistently pays for the other) is a form of prostitution OR a desperate waste of money depending on the outcome of things.

[Jezebel]

Oh my. Being intelligent sounds terribly boring. I'm glad I'm one of the stupid zombies.

[floyd]

so you think its fun to go out with someone who consistently pays for you? don't you find that sort of odd? how does that make sense for them or you (i'm open to hearing a compelling reason)? how is a world where half the population is dependent on the other half more fun than a world where everyone is self reliant, the latter world has more freedom.

[synchronous]

so you think its fun to go out with someone who consistently pays for you? don't you find that sort of odd? how does that make sense for them or you (i'm open to hearing a compelling reason)? how is a world where half the population is dependent on the other half more fun than a world where everyone is self reliant, the latter world has more freedom.

Rather, you are open to hearing compelling arguments that support your view - that which *you* consider most logical. What you propose as the 'right way' to view dating is narrowly based on a utilitarian point of view - not based on intelligence or the intelligent way of being. Many people would consider what you are proposing as 'zombie-like'.

You are off topic. The poster is asking for dating advice, specifically from women. If you want to argue dating rituals in general terms, try bringing the topic up in another section. You might find a more receptive audience there.

[Birdsnest]

Actually, if its important to you not to have to pay for the meal, then let your date know.

If after several dates you find you'd rather make it more even, its up to you to communicate that and find someone that is receptive to that. Not everyone will want it equal, you just have to seek what you want thats all.

[SensEye]

For me to provide dating advice would be a textbook case of the blind leading the blind. However, I'm pretty sure if you want this to go well you should listen to the ladies and not floyd.

On the whole payment issue, dating/relationships are not usually the INTP male's strong suit. I would not compound your problems by picking this particular aspect of tradition to rebel against. Especially on the first date. The expectation will be that you will pay. If you can't afford to take her out, wait until you can.

[Arioch]

dating is for social robots/zombies... intelligent people hang out, they don't date. dating (where one party consistently pays for the other) is a form of prostitution OR a desperate waste of money depending on the outcome of things.

I just gave that quote to a friend of mine who then told me how he sometimes buys drinks for this girl. So I said that he's implying that his friend is a prostitute.

Then I recalled something. We used to treat eachother to chips a lot before. So we were actually participating in gay prostitution. As you might imagine this left me with mixed up feelings. On the one hand I was discusted for having participated in such things. And then I would feel cheated because I never got the crazy butt sex that I paid for.

Of course then I realized that you said dating so it doesn't count in our case.

Good

[floyd]

synch - you avoided the substance of my comments (which is fine) and are now saying my comments are off topic (are you the topic cop?)... i sense cognitive dissonance. i would respect it if the thread poster does not find my perspective useful and asked me to avoid commenting. and whether i agree with you or anyone else here, i value reading varying perspectives (and respect anyone's right to present their perspective even i find it regressive).

the poster asked girls here how to impress a girl. some of the responses thus far "expensive meal", "pretend you have confidence", "sweep her off her feet" - these could have been copied from the hallmark website. so that motivated me to offer a perspective.

intps don't live in an intp world, so many people here might be offering socialized 'desires/expectation' that really don't fit for an intp or a self actualized person. is the key to an intp finding workable relationships attempting to fit a model better suited to other types? i think trying to fit a mold that does not suit you is not good for anyone. based on what i have read, intps, generally, prefer equality in a relationship whereas other types don't as much.

in our nearest biological cousins, chimpanzees, women initiate mating via lordosis (genital exposure). i think the same thing happens, on a subtler level, with humans. if a girl likes you, you will see it, notice it, etc. intps being space cadets by nature would be well served to learn to be more observant, at least around someone they like, to figure out if the other person is interested.

however you decide to pursue/maintain a relationship, you will waste less time selecting only from girls that indicate/clearly reciprocate interest rather than pursuing solely based on your own internal interests (i.e being blind to the other person's interests). if you don't impress someone you like being your average self, then you don't have much chance with that person.

[Jezebel]

and whether i agree with you or anyone else here, i value reading varying perspectives (and respect anyone's right to present their perspective even i find it regressive).

Floyd, it doesn't seem to me like you value anyone's opinion but your own. Calling people pathless generic reward zombies, extraverted droids, cliche females, and social zombies doesn't indicate that you have any respect for anyone else's perspective. You also make generalizations about what intelligent people want in a relationship, inferring that we're stupid if we don't agree with you. You make a lot of assumptions about what INTPs want in a relationship, but based on various threads on this board, we don't all want the same thing.

I already said in other threads that I'm not looking for an intellectual partner, I'm looking for a mate. Much of what you described about the "ideal relationsips for intelligent people" bores me, which is what led to my comment. I don't care if what I do want is popular and "hallmark", I'm not going to say I'm attracted to things I'm not just to be different from most people or sound "intelligent".

[floyd]

i respect people's right to an opinion/preference but that is different from 'revering' those opinions/preferences or not being honest about what i think of them.

yes, intps are going to be different to some degree but there will be some more common traits/trends (my opinion on what those traits/trends are could be wrong). also some intps here might not be intps or are willing to pretend to be something else due to social pressures or perceived rewards. based on the mbti literature/research intps are the least liked in relationships because they are more distant and don't put much effort into a relationship. now, if you are like that, you might be smart to find someone that does not have a problem with those issues to begin with. intps and intjs, in general, simply have more individualized personality development which makes them less able to connect with people (compared to other mbti types).

/I'm not looking for an intellectual partner, I'm looking for a mate./

i would speculate that most intps (who have interest in having a relationship) would like someone that fits both... not having read your other referenced post i would be curious as to the allure of a mate who is not an intellectual partner.

[synchronous]

synch - you avoided the substance of my comments (which is fine) and are now saying my comments are off topic (are you the topic cop?)... i sense cognitive dissonance.

1. I'm not a topic cop, just stating a fact that we are off topic now. The poster's looking for specific advice, not a debate about equality.

2. As for avoiding the substance of your comments: I've given you a response of what I think of all your comments on this topic. It doesn't matter what anybody says, taking it from any angle, you are adamant. I'm sorry you are not able to pick up on the 'nuance'.

3. You are being offensive: suggesting a woman is a prostitute if she accepts the man to pay for a meal is very offensive, immature and out of line. I was trying to be polite and refrain from saying something offensive to you.

Floyd, there is no doubt flowers, dinners by candlelight, expensive gifts etc are a bit cliche. My husband showers me with these things all the time and insists on paying for everything. He could not bare the thought of being looked as a 'bad provider' in the traditional sense. I like an egalitarian arrangement and don't care for flowers and fancy gifts, but, I'm also smart enough to know that's the way he understands love, affection and intimacy. I graciously accept his gestures. It's foolish to change him - it's his mindset. It's like asking an INTP not to think.

There is a good 75% probability this poster is interested in someone other than a rational, who might prefer a more cliched, traditional dating experience. So, playing the odds is not so bad. If you insist on wanting to take the date according to your values, then go ahead. If she's game, then bonus, if not, then she is not for you.

[synchronous]

Bye the way, Floyd, my husband holds a Masters degree in Biochemistry, graduated with highest honours. He opted not to continue his education to obtain his PhD. By conventional standards, he's no 'dumbie'.

[floyd]

on one end of the spectrum you have freedom, civil rights, egalitarianism
on the other end you have women with no freedom, rights, considered property.

financially supporting a women exists closer to the latter end of the spectrum. if you are interested in furthering the former, don't defend traditions on that side of the spectrum (to make yourself feel better). and in a society like the u.s. where women have the freedom to be independent, to pursue a more dependent lifestyle, i do think, is closer to prostitution than socialized society is willing to admit. i also think it weakens society (less self reliant individuals, less dynamic society) and is poor modeling for children (boys and girls). so i think it's ignorant to defend/support traditions which further those behaviors. if you want to make a case for how women (or anyone else) can be more egalitarian while being supported by someone else, please do, but don't make this about you being offended. because you can be offended and still be wrong. i can also be wrong with out you having to get 'offended'. based on neurscience research, when a person gets upset their cognitive abilities shut down and they start operating on a more primitive/violent level.

by the conventional standards of his day galileo was a heretic.

[Misty_Kye]

Aryan,

Breaking off from the route this thread has taken and going back to your original question (I KNOW it’s my J poking through again :ph34r: ).

My recommendation is to be an INTP: Watch, Observe, Listen. Do things that will mean something to her as a person and not just a generic date, it will separate you from the rest of the crowd. If she is the kind of girl that will accept male friends you may want to try that route at first.

Things to remember:
At some point you will have to take a chance.
She may be nervous of you.

Good Luck

[Jezebel]

Floyd, I think you're reading too much into paying for the first date. And for the record, I don't believe that males should always be expected to pay for the females. The original poster, a male, was asking about a female. If he invites her out on a date, then yes, I think he should pay. Not because he is male, but because he invited her out as a romantic interest. However if the female is inviting the male out, then I think she should pay. I have paid for both myself and the guy on dates before, it's not that big of a deal. I see it as a courteousy, not as a proclamation on my ideals of what gender roles should be. Kind of like being a host and not expecting your guests to pay for the groceries when you invite them over to your house for dinner.

Women from other cultures and those who are more traditional may always expect the male to pay. If you are a male and specifically don't want a woman with these traditional views, then I agree that you should not continue dating her. But I don't think it should be done by imposing one's views onto her. Just don't ask her out on anymore dates. That's what the first date was for afterall, to get to know if you're compatible.

[Slider]

Not because he is male, but because he invited her out as a romantic interest. However if the female is inviting the male out, then I think she should pay. I have paid for both myself and the guy on dates before, it's not that big of a deal. I see it as a courteousy, not as a proclamation on my ideals of what gender roles should be.

that's wot I was getting at, floyd. ask someone out and then expect them to pay? ha, yeeeah. 'uhh, sorry, that's the day I clean the windows in my house.'

[floyd]

i think the original poster asked how to impress a girl. my point was that if she is not already impressed by your normal persona/behavior, then you have little chance.

also, intps are known to desire equality in relationships more than other types and i think traditional 'dating' rituals are about inequality, cultural role playing, codependency, and will counter many intps preferences. so i was making fun of dating in general.

the only difference between a relationship and a freindship to me, is that there is mutual physical attraction.

friendships form naturally (based on mutual interests), and physical attraction is there or it isn't. so expensive meals, sweeping people of their feet, etc. is just socialized fairy tale nonsense that only plays a signficant role if the person does not like you intellectually and/or physically. in so far as that behavior might not reflect your preferences, you might actually wierd out someone that likes you (or end up dating someone that likes the rituals not you).

[s]

For me to provide dating advice would be a textbook case of the blind leading the blind. However, I'm pretty sure if you want this to go well you should listen to the ladies and not floyd.

On the whole payment issue, dating/relationships are not usually the INTP male's strong suit. I would not compound your problems by picking this particular aspect of tradition to rebel against. Especially on the first date. The expectation will be that you will pay. If you can't afford to take her out, wait until you can.

I love this answer! :D

[synchronous]

on one end of the spectrum you have freedom, civil rights, egalitarianism
on the other end you have women with no freedom, rights, considered property.

financially supporting a women exists closer to the latter end of the spectrum. if you are interested in furthering the former, don't defend traditions on that side of the spectrum (to make yourself feel better). and in a society like the u.s. where women have the freedom to be independent, to pursue a more dependent lifestyle, i do think, is closer to prostitution than socialized society is willing to admit. i also think it weakens society (less self reliant individuals, less dynamic society) and is poor modeling for children (boys and girls). so i think it's ignorant to defend/support traditions which further those behaviors. if you want to make a case for how women (or anyone else) can be more egalitarian while being supported by someone else, please do, but don't make this about you being offended. because you can be offended and still be wrong. i can also be wrong with out you having to get 'offended'. based on neurscience research, when a person gets upset their cognitive abilities shut down and they start operating on a more primitive/violent level.

by the conventional standards of his day galileo was a heretic.

Floyd, floyd, floyd.... you are too much. lol. You have no clue what you are talking about. But, I certainly give you a "P" for persistence, and perhaps a J for "INTJ".

Best of luck with your dating experiences. Drop me a line in a few years. I'd be interested in knowing how it all works out for you. Perhaps we can also discuss the concepts of Feelings, Love, Compromise, Respect and Reciprocation (in the intangible plane). Until then, I'm pretty well done debating this with you.

Luv ya xo

[synchronous]

Floyd, I think you're reading too much into paying for the first date. And for the record, I don't believe that males should always be expected to pay for the females. The original poster, a male, was asking about a female. If he invites her out on a date, then yes, I think he should pay. Not because he is male, but because he invited her out as a romantic interest. However if the female is inviting the male out, then I think she should pay. I have paid for both myself and the guy on dates before, it's not that big of a deal. I see it as a courteousy, not as a proclamation on my ideals of what gender roles should be. Kind of like being a host and not expecting your guests to pay for the groceries when you invite them over to your house for dinner.

I agree. This is a very good suggestion. Also, the poster could find some mutual connection, like music or coffee or something, and choose a spot for the first date that they both most likely would enjoy. It doesn't have to be anything expensive - just something that is appealing to both. Then he could find out more about her, and take it from there.