J vs. P

[joecancer]

It seems to me that Ps have the ability to become J for a period of time if they need to get stuff done, but Js don't have the ability to call on their P as readily. Anyone else feel this way? I feel like I have the ability to have follow-through if I absolutely must, but many Js I know could not be counted on to brainstorm of be creative or openminded if their lives depended on it. I assume this is because, as Ps, we are more adaptable, making us able to adapt to being even a (gasp!) J for a time, whereas Js are not able to adapt to any other mode of operating. (Also, it is probably rarer that one's life -- or livelihood --would depend on brainstorming or creativity as often as it would rely on the followthrough so often necessary for getting a regular paycheck in the "SJ" world that we keep hearing about).

[a_rationalist]

IMO

[joecancer]

I don't know. It's easier for me to perceive. Though I do think I know what you mean - it's easier for a P to be a J than for a J to be a P. But I guess I'm just wondering if it has more to do with our ability to adapt than with our intelligence. Then again, maybe those two thngs are intertwined.

[Crazy]

There is heavy pressure on follow-up, and not much pressure on thinking creatively. You don't have to think creatively to survive, you don't have to be open minded to survive, you do have to finish things every once in a while to survive. They just don't have as much practice. It isn't necessary for them. It is for us.

[eyebyte_atWork]

It seems to me that Ps have the ability to become J for a period of time if they need to get stuff done, but Js don't have the ability to call on their P as readily.

I disagree - heavy drinking can bring out the P in all of us.


Anyone else feel this way? I feel like I have the ability to have follow-through if I absolutely must, but many Js I know could not be counted on to brainstorm of be creative or openminded if their lives depended on it.

Creativity does not stop because of J - and it is not present because of P.
P contributes to creativity as P tends to not be confined - but it does not garauntee it. Conversely J does not prohibit creativity - byut channels it.



I assume this is because, as Ps, we are more adaptable, making us able to adapt to being even a (gasp!) J for a time, whereas Js are not able to adapt to any other mode of operating. (Also, it is probably rarer that one's life -- or livelihood --would depend on brainstorming or creativity as often as it would rely on the followthrough so often necessary for getting a regular paycheck in the "SJ" world that we keep hearing about).

SJ 's tend to die with the largest retirement accounts.

[Crazy]

SJ 's tend to die with the largest retirement accounts.So you're saying get in good with your old, near-death SJ relatives? Good idea.

[Master O]

So you're saying get in good with your old, near-death SJ relatives? Good idea.i admire your perception.

[joecancer]

There is heavy pressure on follow-up, and not much pressure on thinking creatively. You don't have to think creatively to survive, you don't have to be open minded to survive, you do have to finish things every once in a while to survive. They just don't have as much practice. It isn't necessary for them. It is for us.

Yeah, I guess P is not generally necessary for survival, unless in an emergency situation. But it is necessary, I believe, for living a meaningful life. It just goes to show that survival is valued above and beyond having a meaningful life.

[Pooja]

I definately agree. When I have something important to do, I'll procrastinate (because of my "P"), but eventually, as things get desperate, my responsible "J" will kick in.
Also, I act like a "J" sometimes to impress other "J"s and to do well academically, but that charade is way too exhausting to keep up.
I find that many people who are naturally "J"s tend to walk around with sticks up their a##es

[MasterMerk]

I can try to be "J" for a length of time, but in the end it feels as though I'm balancing on the head of a pin. Not surprisingly, it isn't a very comfortable position.

I prefer getting things done though free accessibility than forceful drive.

[Snowflake]

responsible "J"
I'll procrastinate (because of my "P"

Why are these the most common stereotypes, anyway?

P != procrastination, it just means you prefer to take things as they come, and J just means one prefers to plan things out ahead of time.

[joecancer]

Ps are also more likely to take in more info before acting, while Js are more likely to act in order to reach a completion. It al comes down to how you define terms. In a society where getting things done=responsibility and not getting things done=procrastination, i think it's pretty understandable why someone might say a p=procrastination and j=responsibility.

[Snowflake]

Ps are also more likely to take in more info before acting

I agree, but if educating yourself before you move to action is part of the action, then how is that procrastination?

[Mountain_Recluse]

When events do NOT go according to plan, or schedule, or policy, or documented procedure that's when the strongest J's become flustered, ticked off about what happened, angry at anyone that they can find to blame, and generally lose their cool and become ineffective or worse.

Meanwhile...

Strong P's can take the screw ups in stride, revise the plan or schedule on the fly, and keep on trying stuff until something works.

Example:
Two drivers, a P & J are both traveling along a road. They come to a road closure and no way around. There were no signs back at the last turn off, nor any signs thereafter.
The J is fuming and stomping and ranting at the construction crew.
The P gets out the map, figures out a plan B, and continues on.

Example: "Houston, we have a problem."
The J people go off on a tantrum, find somebody to blame, point fingers, and spend a lot of time ranting and raving instead of thinking of a solution.
The P people meanwhile break out the manuals, the schematics, the duct tape and cardboard boxes and figure something out with a revised mission plan and schedule.

Okay, maybe the above J examples are really that of SJ's (I've known a lot) and the P examples are best done by NP's. But still, I think most of the above difference in reaction is due to J and P.

[dziner]

I disagree - heavy drinking can bring out the P in all of us.

I was wondering, does this bring out 'F' also? I never tried heavy drinking.




Creativity does not stop because of J - and it is not present because of P.

Certainly. But I think 'P's have more desire to explore and be creative. 'J's are more intersted in the solution than the process of problem solving. 'P's enjoy the 'quest of solution' more than the solution itself.

[Snowflake]

Okay, maybe the above J examples are really that of SJ's (I've known a lot) and the P examples are best done by NP's. But still, I think most of the above difference in reaction is due to J and P.

Actually, I thought it was kind of biased against Js in general, but I don't care, to be honest. It's quite refreshing to see someone rooting for the home team. :)

[joecancer]

I agree - it's an unfair stereotype. I was just saying that it does make sense that it exists. Unfortunately, we live in a world that values action more than contemplation.

[Neppy]

I find it almost impossible to become a J. I only act if I know I have to, right now, or else! I take things as they come. I'm not much of a planner, and I'm not one for itineraries or agendas. I just tend to drift. Not great, but I am a chronic procrastinator and I don't see that changing any time soon.

I suppose I showed my P side today. My friend and I were supposed to be getting a train back to our desired town (Kettering), and instead, the train took us over 100 miles in the opposite direction, to a city called Birmingham. Instead of freaking out and crying and screaming, I just burst out laughing. Quite terrible of me really, as my friend who is quite firmly a J, was getting quite worked up about it all.

I'd say it was because I knew everything would work out fine, and of course, it did. Or else I wouldn't be here typing now. I tend to take the calm, laid back approach to things and I find the humour in everything, however irrelevant or abstract. No matter what kind of situation I get myself into, I doubt I'll ever transform into a J. I'm too ...benign, if that's the right word.

However with my J friend with me, she took the initiative and solved the problem at hand. I would've done that myself in her absence, but she seemed to want to take control of the situation and I quite was happy to let her. Plus I was so exhausted anyway, from being among large crowds all day (Christmas shopping is the devil). :whistle:

[Kilby]

I find it almost impossible to become a J. I only act if I know I have to, right now, or else! I take things as they come. I'm not much of a planner, and I'm not one for itineraries or agendas. I just tend to drift. Not great, but I am a chronic procrastinator and I don't see that changing any time soon.:

Yeah, I was on here last night while simultaneously typing an english paper for today. It's great to get down to the wire and with the stress building (at least for me), I do my best work. It's that small burst of hard work and efficiency that comes with the label INTP ,I guess.

[Neppy]

I tend to work better under pressure. I think my mind goes into hyperdrive.

[moni]

hmmm... sackanaka says i'm becoming more 'p'...

[JBHunt]

I am in a relationship with a SJ and half the time she gives me the impression that she could really care less to be with me and that she goes around sleeping with other men. The only reason I am holding on to her is because I want to get to the bottom of this. I am really getting a kick out of this "experience," even though she drives me insane!! Right now I have all the time and money in the world...ahhhh....:rocker:
Any NPs been in a relationship with a SJ????