Childhood...

[Avengardh]

You know when you were a child? Hopefully you do, at any rate, my parents thought that sometimes spanking me was ok, but sometimes they took it to the limit (No blood, but with a wooden stick, kinda really hurt). Anyone taught in that "old-fashioned" way?
What are your thoughts about doing that with children/kids these days?

Fear is a powerful thing.

~*Aven*~

[SensEye]

Not really. I was only spanked a few times. Usually when I was caught doing something that my parents considered dangerous. For example, when I was little we lived near a small creek. I was warned and warned and warned not to go on the ice when it froze over in the fall. Naturally, I could not resist. The sound of the ice cracking underfoot was too seductive. It was a small creek, only waist deep in most spots if I fell through. But if I came home wet, I would get my hide tanned.

And yes, used judiciously, I think it is a suitable form of discipline.

[EternalCynic]

Yes I was spanked a few times, but I rarely did anything to deserve it, so I'm probably a little biased:

Spanking children is a good thing, well, in some cases. Maybe it's a little shaky ground for people to use 'fear' as discipline, but what else can you do with some kids?

"Ignore them." No. Then they'll think they can get anything they want without consequence, they're not ALWAYS just after attention you know.

"Cave in." Well, that's obviously a big fat no.

"Time out." Isolation doesnt work well, especially if the kid is an introvert :P.

But as far as going as far as Avens parents did.. I'd say that's a little much.. wooden stick sounds like a tad severe, but, er, I wasnt there so I couldnt say =P

[Avengardh]

Yes I was spanked a few times, but I rarely did anything to deserve it, so I'm probably a little biased:

Spanking children is a good thing, well, in some cases. Maybe it's a little shaky ground for people to use 'fear' as discipline, but what else can you do with some kids?

"Ignore them." No. Then they'll think they can get anything they want without consequence, they're not ALWAYS just after attention you know.

"Cave in." Well, that's obviously a big fat no.

"Time out." Isolation doesnt work well, especially if the kid is an introvert :P.

But as far as going as far as Avens parents did.. I'd say that's a little much.. wooden stick sounds like a tad severe, but, er, I wasnt there so I couldnt say =P


Weeee!

I think they were too young to have kids, mentally. It's also the culture, it was probably worse for them when they were kids.

And interesting responses, thanks peeps.

~*Aven*~

[nobarcode]

What are your thoughts about doing that with children/kids these days?

~*Aven*~

As far as my childhood, it was at times brutal.

I don't have children of my own, but I've had experiences being around children and my friend (mariel) has a daughter that I have at times "perented". I have never seen a reason to "spank" her or any other child. My observation is that doing so is almost always about misappropriated frustration. I have endless patience; there is always a solution within that.

[Sam172]

My childhood, (having only recently come out of it) was pretty laid back really. I wasn't really smacked or beat at all now I think of it.I never really did much to annoy my parents. I was smacked about once every month or so as a child....but my mother would usually comfort me afterwards because she felt bad.
I'm not going to go on about what my father did....but that really really scared me and he only did it when I pissed him off quite badly (such as when I accidently spilt meths on the carpet while chasing my brother).
Lets just say that I learnt very quickly not to piss off my father. To be honest, he still scares me now at times.

I've turned out alright in the end :)

I don't know about doing it with children though....I suppose it would have to come from experience and depend on the child....

[int]

I got my hand slapped on occaision, but it was more of a scare tactic and never really hurt. That only until I was 4 or 5. Then my parents made me go to my room, which I never really minded.

My kids are gonna go to my room. :ph34r:

[Jezebel]

I was spanked a lot as a kid. Paddles with holes drilled through them were used on me. My father used to show them to his friends and brag about how he used those so he could hit me harder, which bothered me more than the spankings themselves. I don't think I always deserved it and he never allowed me to tell my side of things. Personally I couldn't see doing it to my kids. I turned out ok I think, but it sure wasn't because of the spankings. To this day I am completely unaffectionate toward my father and have a hard time not seeing him as an aggressor.

[BritainOphira]

I don't think I was ever spanked, but as I've rather sucessfully blocked most of my childhood, you never can tell. My father worked nights when I was young, and as my mother was a stay-at-home mom for a while, the entire job of disciplining fell to her. She decided that screaming at me was the best way to curb my behaivor in most cases.
I can't quite claim, "..but I think I turned out all right," because I currently have my doubts about that, but I survived.

[int]

I can't quite claim, "..but I think I turned out all right," because I currently have my doubts about that...

That's probably the norm around here.

[candela]

I usually got spanked when I did something bad. I never had "timeout" or whatever. I honestly don't think it affected me much in a good or bad way. I don't think I would have ended up a criminal if my parents hadn't done it. I don't feel abused either, even though I remember one time my dad going a bit overboard over something really stupid. I also remember my mom breaking a hair brush from hitting me with it, which I find kind of funny for some reason.

For most kids though, I think it's a good thing. However, I'm never going to have kids.

[synchronous]

You know when you were a child? Hopefully you do, at any rate, my parents thought that sometimes spanking me was ok, but sometimes they took it to the limit (No blood, but with a wooden stick, kinda really hurt). Anyone taught in that "old-fashioned" way?
What are your thoughts about doing that with children/kids these days?

A wooden stick is definitely extreme. When I was young, my father would use his belt. I knew trouble was brewing by the rhythm of his foot steps. One time, he lined us all up (four siblings), and belted us bare butt. It was very humiliated as well as painful.

As a parent, I opted to not to spank. I don't agree with using spanking as a form of discipline. But, I do admit to spanking my children once or twice. My aunt shared the same view - no spanking. One day years ago when I was 19, I saw my aunt pull out the wooden spoon and both my aunt and uncle rushed into my cousin's room to dole out a physical punishment. I didn't quite understand why the extreme punishment then. As a parent now, I do. There are times when there just is no other way to make a statement sink in.

Time out is not too bad of an alternative, although, I think it's more for the benefit of the parents. Alot of times, the behaviour of a child is due to a particular stage of development, not necessarily a trait that will be carried over if it doesn't get corrected. Best to pick and choose carefully what behaviour really needs to be corrected. Understand the stages of development, let the child learn through natural/logical consequences as much as possible, provide a good example for your children. If you are going to ask your child to do something, you are best to show the example by doing it yourself.

[Birdsnest]

:mellow:

[Boozer]

I only got spanked twice, both times for beating up my younger brother... or I should say starting to beat him up, almost as soon as I had knocked him down, I was being drug upstairs. It seems to me that it was pretty effective, I never touched him after that, and I still remember that day.

As for turning out all right, I don't think so, but I don't blame that on the few spankings I got.

[cloakable]

...I was being drug upstairs.

I misread that as '...I was being drugged upstairs', and I had to re-read your post. :D :ph34r:

[Boozer]

You must be confusing them with my other drug addled posts :cheers:

*stumbles back down stairs*

[Google Monster]

I got spanked with belt or shoes. Sometimes they (both parents) would send us outside to get a stick for the spanking but it didn't work, either we would not come back or bring little twigs with leafs that would break in one hit and the leaves would absorb some impact. When it comes to the show spanking I perfer the slipper and run when the boot was grabbed. I got spanked until I was around 10 or something like that.

[Arioch]

I can dodge quite well.

[Boozer]

*imagines some young Neo dodging his parents spanking attempts*

"Oh no, Dad was taken over by an Agent! RUN!!"

[s]

[quote="Birdsnest"]
quote removed.


-int
quote]

:huh:

[Niflheimian]

Birdsnest, your mother is a genius! Next time I'm at the cinema, I'll be sure to dump Coke on talking people (or, better yet, people who're making out). That is, if I live that long. :D

[Birdsnest]

Uhm, it did evoke some strong emotions and a major chase scene all the way out of the theatre and down the hill. They did get furious, running after as fast as they could and we were huffing and puffing to get to our car before they caught us, fumbling with the keys to unlock the locks & get in our car before the 2 breathless ushers & the couple with the wet heads could get us, & and we took off down that road so fast, never to return.

Whew, not recommended, but it does wake up and get a message across not to talk when others have repeatedly told you not to. (maybe).

[nobarcode]

'tis always the challenge.

[file cabinet]

I was spanked. I believe I was only spanked when I had 'earned' it. I don't really remember the times I was spanked though so I guess I can't say how often but I have seen other children spanked. The child will be asked to lay face down on the sofa and then his pants will be tugged down or the child will be told to pull his pants down to lay ass up... well.. anyway.. the child would be spanked once, and spanked very hard, easier for the spanker who didn't want to spank more than once and of course there would be tears and screaming.. I think the psychological effects surrounding the spanking of what is/was done is far worse then the actual spanking.. as noted by Jez and her shitty experience and others.

[purple13]

I had to chuckle/wince when I saw the "wooden spoon" response (My mom's weapon of choice). She rarely had to actually use it... all she had to do was go for the drawer and we knew she meant business.

[nobarcode]

I had to chuckle/wince when I saw the "wooden spoon" response (My mom's weapon of choice). She rarely had to actually use it... all she had to do was go for the drawer and we knew she meant business.

I went to the drawer and pulled out the filet knife. That's when my mom figured out that I meant business, as far as "business" is concerned.

I don't recommend this, but it was a last resort.

[synchronous]

I went to the drawer and pulled out the filet knife. That's when my mom figured out that I meant business, as far as "business" is concerned.

I don't recommend this, but it was a last resort.

Interesting way to create some distance. Yikes!

[file cabinet]

I had to chuckle/wince when I saw the "wooden spoon" response (My mom's weapon of choice). She rarely had to actually use it... all she had to do was go for the drawer and we knew she meant business.

I went to the drawer and pulled out the filet knife. That's when my mom figured out that I meant business, as far as "business" is concerned.

I don't recommend this, but it was a last resort.

fucking gun laws... should've pulled your glock.

[purple13]

Years ago, one of my older brothers pulled a knife on my mom when he was drunk and depressed/angry. My dad tryed to verbally power-arm it away from him in a rather tactless angry/fearful way. My younger brother screamed out "No!". That is an image I will never forget. Just one of the chaotic events of your average disfunctional family.

How's the relationship with you mom these days?

[Misty_Kye]

Dad (eNTj) stopped spanking us kids when we reached the preteen years. Then he would try to make us understand the reason what we did was wrong. :ph34r: I still have a lot of respect for him.

Mom (INFP) is infinitely patient with young children, but once we hit the preteens she would yell, scream, throw things and generally go ballistic, then my brothers would lock her in the closet :devil: (Yeah, OK, they feel bad about that now). However, she got over the anger quick and was a lot of fun.

My thoughts: I don’t have children so I haven’t had a real world test on my theories. I like the response by synchronous.


There are times when there just is no other way to make a statement sink in.

Best to pick and choose carefully what behaviour really needs to be corrected. Understand the stages of development, let the child learn through natural/logical consequences as much as possible, provide a good example for your children. If you are going to ask your child to do something, you are best to show the example by doing it yourself.
:thumbup:

Mild physical discipline: Possibly OK for young children. Anything that leaves a mark is out. Should never be done in anger.
Other Discipline: dependent upon the child. I don’t recall ever being sent to my room, though I know my siblings were. I assume I was, but being an introvert it wasn’t much of a punishment. Maybe they should have sent me to a party :ph34r:
Positive reinforcement: Defiantly preferred for all ages, but takes practice.

[Claverhouse]

Nothing to contribute to this: but can I mention that much of this thread is horrific. I'd hate to conclude that anyone's revered parent was a sadistic pervert, but the evidence just keeps mounting up.


Yeah, you have to hit kids ( very mildly ) on occasion, but let it be as Kipling pointed out of bears somewhere, 'one quick cuff, and both forget it': because in addition, frequent nagging and continual harping on about an offense, real or imagined, can be fairly as bad as physical pain to a child.

[ And to husbands too :D ]



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[nobarcode]

How's the relationship with you mom these days?
I was 10yrs. old when that happened. Now, 25yrs. later, our relationship is much different and better. It took some work though.

[file cabinet]

Mom (INFP) is infinitely patient with young children, but once we hit the preteens she would yell, scream, throw things and generally go ballistic, then my brothers would lock her in the closet :devil: (Yeah, OK, they feel bad about that now). However, she got over the anger quick and was a lot of fun.

hysterical!

[jimkopelli]

I was usually made to sit in the corner. It drove me bonkers, staring at the wall... but I guess that was the idea. Only been struck once (brother and I were wrestling, and I was winning, and mom couldn't get me to stop any other way) and it wasn't so much the pain that got me as it was the shock. Later it was all yelling, and those quiet talks of doom.

[gypseymothlee]

For a punishment, my parent once made me play outside with all the other kids in the neighborhood.
Aside from that they used guilt, they found it more effective.
Fortunately I've built up a tolerance to it over time.

[Chaos Symphony]

I can't remember much of early childhood around my parents... Mostly I draw a blank except for the houses I've lived in and a few scattered scenes. I can't be sure if I was ever spanked or hit... I know my parents threatened it at times, because physical punishment was unremarkable in Indian life, even with sticks (branches and rods and suchlike), but I think they might have felt too awkward to actually do it to me.

No, it was mainly shouting, pinches and slaps (on the arm and elsewhere) from my mother (ESFJ) which constituted attempts at discipline in my childhood. Ruling by fear.... Not the most effective thing, especially as I grew inured to it and hate replaced my fear, but it didn't stop her from trying. Respect for my father (ISTJ) made his quiet commands more effective, but when my mother started taking advantage of this, they lost their value as well.

What I do remember well, though, is school. Physical punishment was /not/ prohibited in the school I went to in the Middle East. I've been beaten with wooden rulers and rods a few times over the course of those years, especially by a particular Arabic teacher who wasn't pleased with the fact that I often didn't complete my homework. Ah, and let's not forget the time I was beaten for not writing in cursive in either first or second grade... I was so well intimidated that I switched completely and irrevocably and have forgotten the art of printing neatly since.

Indeed, strict discipline was a fact of life there. Several teachers would make frequent note of the presence of canes in their desks or classroom closets. Fortunately, strikes were mainly to the hand, on the palm or the knuckles. Painful, but not brutal. Though I recall something about a teacher who would employ a wooden ruler without the metal sliver on the edge (a guide strip) removed... Now there's something to put the fear in you. I can no longer be certain whether that particular threat was rumor, bluff, or fact, but we all had good reason to be very well behaved around her.

Effective? Certainly. Good or bad? Well, that was the culture I grew up in. I don't think much of the method... I still recall those punishments every time I see a wooden ruler, especially those long metersticks they have in schools here. I also have a dislike for intimidation after having been exposed to it in so many forms... But I can't really fault the teachers back there for their actions. They instilled a discipline that is integral to the environment there. Hierarchy, authority, order. Not the kind of thing I value, so I'm happy to leave it behind, but I suppose it works for them.

[PsiKik]

My parents never spanked me and I turned out OK, well except for the petty crime, arson, robbery, assault, drug dealing, WMD smuggling, animal torture, nun murdering, cannibalism, satanic rituals, serial killing and insider trading that I indulge in with some regularity today.

[greenintp]

I can't really give an unbiased answer. I had a very abused childhood.
I would guess if "spanking" is done with the honest intention of guidance, and never venting and the personality of the recipient is considered... it maybe ok.

[SheepDog]

I wasn't spanked, and I won't spank my children. I believe in boundaries for children, and I believe in teaching them about consequences. But spanking seems to me to be arbitrary and totally lacking in creativity.

The comments about understanding children's stages is important. Not all behavior is about the behavior itself, but is about other issues that children must resolve. You may control the individual behavior, but you could create long term difficulties for the child by failing to allow the child to work through the stages successfully.

And I agree that for a patient person, there are always more effective alternatives.

Finally, I find the timeout/"go to your room" references funny. For a brief period, my mom would ground me to my room 'until it is clean'. I would stay there for days at a time, and did not consider it punishment in any way. After a few days, she'd order me outside to play with my friends. Eventually she stopped grounding me. Unfortunately, she resorted to yelling and screaming, which didn't really help my emotional well-being.

[Salad]

i don't... remember having been spanked... i don't think i ever was...
my parents didn't oppose it though... i do remember my brother getting spanked once...
i think my mom washed my mouth out with soap at least once... for lying... i think...
i was a good kid most of the time... when i wasn't though, i was smart about it... i rarely got caught...

wow... my memories from age 4 to 6 seem to swim together...

[Seraph]

I think I was spanked maybe once or twice. After my parents divorced, there was no more of that.

Spanking or paddling might work for SP or SJ children, but for NT or NF kids it's a travesty. To me, it always felt like a terrible violation of space. Hell, we don't even let people into our three-foot-radius "personal bubble" now!

[CosmicDust]

I occasionally got a brief swat across the face (and maybe sometimes the other cheek) when being "fresh" to my parents, but not repeated spankings that I can recall. My first stepdad used verbal and displayed intimidation (the latter including stuff like ripping up phone books in anger), which to my mother and older sister at least might have been enough to be considered abusive. (He was a druggie, and so his abuse of people was linked to his abuse of drugs.)

[file cabinet]

I occasionally got a brief swat across the face (and maybe sometimes the other cheek) when being "fresh" to my parents, but not repeated spankings that I can recall. My first stepdad used verbal and displayed intimidation (the latter including stuff like ripping up phone books in anger), which to my mother and older sister at least might have been enough to be considered abusive. (He was a druggie, and so his abuse of people was linked to his abuse of drugs.)

that reminds me.. I saw a pseudo-father break a kid's toy in half in front of the child and yelled loudly because the child who is merely 5(or 6?) was suspended from school for kicking someone(kind of funny).

[Sam172]

I find that some of the best people I know had the worst and most messed up childhoods. Though I do know others whom had bad childhoods and are mucked up beyond belief now...

[lauriep]

My parents did spank me some when I was very little but I think I had a pretty normal childhood. Frankly, I don't think I became mentally fucked up until I was a teenager.

[Sam172]

Frankly, I don't think I became mentally fucked up until I was a teenager.

I know this is going off topic, but would you be willing to divulge as to why you became, or believe you became mentally messed up in your teens?
I'm interested see :)

[lauriep]

There were other factors, not spanking, that changed my mental outlook on life. They just didn't happen until I was a teenager.

For better or worse, I guess you just accept it because it makes you who you are.

[Nindy]

Mwa, have been spanked but hitting/slapping has been more usual. For most occasions I just cannot give them an accurate reason for it though, and I know when I deserve negative feedback in some way.

But it didn't happen too frequently anyway, the going to my room part was not a punishment and mostly I ran to my room without their encouragement anyway lol. :D

Their favorite way of punishment seems to be making me feel extremely guilty, which I tend to do by myself anyway, other methods often used are neglecting me, rejecting me, gang up on me, yell at me excessively which mostly includes stuff like telling me how I screwed up their life, how I do everything wrong, how the world does not revolve around me (while I never think that, but just makes me feel guilty), how I was an accident anyway etcetera..

Anyhow I wouldn't say I've turned out okay, but that's also due to a lot of other factors.

[Bluehaze]

Spanking was garnered as an ineffective method to use on me. Use of spanking by my parents ceased as they thought that I kept repeating the same action which resulted in the discipline again and again. Some may think this as stupid because it seems that I never learned, but the complete contrary was present. I learned from ever action that made me get into trouble and would try the same scenario using 'different' methods everytime. Eventually, I would succeed, but after adequate repeated discipline.

[cloakable]

Huh, the only thing dicipline taught me was 'don't get caught'

[Sackanaka]

My dad did all the effective punishments:
1) The skull thump, a quick multi-finger jab to the side of the head
2) The "Look into my pissed-off eyes", grabbing my jaw firmly and bringing it up to his face full of rage.
Both of these types were inevitably followed by verbal statements such as "Use your head!" or "Why do you do things like that?"
Perhaps this is what led me down the path of INTP self-awareness.

On another note, I was thinking of starting a poll: Are INTPs created or born INTPs?

[Boneca]

I was only hit once in my childhood, as far as I can remember. That time, I started by hitting my father, and he hit back. :D
Then again, my father is also an INTP - I guess I was lucky.



On another note, I was thinking of starting a poll: Are INTPs created or born INTPs?
I was certainly not "forced" into INTP-ness, so I must have been born like that. I think it has at least some genetic aspect.

[Claverhouse]

There were other factors, not spanking, that changed my mental outlook on life. They just didn't happen until I was a teenager.


Puberty has a lot to answer for.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[SheepDog]

After reading this thread a couple times, some incidents from early puberty have come to my mind. I haven't thought of them for a while, and must have suppressed them. I don't feel like going into the details at the moment, it just freaked me out that these memories were hiding so well.

[tragula]

Was spanked infrequently as a kid. It didn't scar me for life. Mostly I was annoyed because my sister caused the trouble always and we would both get punished always. Taught me a lot about unfairness. "Life isn't fair"--my mom, with hairbrush ;-)

Now a parent I am totally against spanking. I don't think it teaches anything worth learning. The vast majority of physical abuse is done in the heat of the moment. Parents need to learn to cool off first and then discipline in a non-abusive manner. This in turn teaches kids to cool off first by example! The worst I've done is dump a cold cup of water on my son! That got his attention!! And perhaps that is blurring the line a little but I'm ok with it.

[Edmond Zedo]

When I was a kid, my dad gave me $5 every Saturday night to spank my mom. I don't think the resulting complete insanity has changed my outlook on life much at all.

mgbradsh this is a joke