Plastic Surgery

[nottaprettygal]

I have been thinking about this lately (the topic, not getting it myself). Part of me feels as though it's only for people who place their personal value on the way they look.

Recently my dad got plastic surgery, and he claimed that it was for himself...not for anyone else. Is that a valid claim? It is hard for me to believe that cultural pressure cannot be factored into a person's desire to alter their appearence.

In my dad's case, I eventually accepted his choice. After all, it's his money and his body, and he can do whatever he pleases with them. Nonetheless, I question his reasoning along with the reasoning of everyone else who decides to get plastic surgery. People should just come out and say, "I want people to like me more. I want to be accepted," because that appears to be the real reason people opt for cosmetic surgery, right?

Let's try not to turn this thread into a boob discussion, shall we?

[booyalab]

It's ALWAYS for yourself. Culture can't make you insecure about something. You decide whether you will let comments and media pictures affect you to the point of spending thousands of dollars on it.

[Neppy]

I wouldn't say no to plastic surgery on my nose. Not because I care about how others percieve it, but because my nose annoys me. I don't really care about the ethics attached to plastic surgery. Your body is basically your exterior. If you want to change how it looks, you're entitled to do so. It's no different from getting a nicer case for your computer. The computer parts won't change, but from the outside the computer'll look nicer. If I'm satisfied with my nose, I'll be happier with the way my face looks. My personality and my friends and my place in society will not change - and I don't want them to. It isn't always to do with how others see you, or how accepted you are.

I do love me though (I'm a bit of a narcissist), and I could live without getting plastic surgery. If it was offered to me for free (or if I was incredibly rich) though... ;)

If anyone's curious - I have a very large, crooked nose. It doesn't affect me in any way and nobody else cares. However, given the option of getting rid of the bump in it, I'd say yes.

[nottaprettygal]

If anyone's curious - I have a very large, crooked nose. It doesn't affect me in any way and nobody else cares. However, given the option of getting rid of the bump in it, I'd say yes.

But what if having a bump on your nose was suddenly considered the epitome of beauty? Would you still want to fix it?

I suspect no. That's why I say that cultural norms have to play a role in a person's decision to get plastic surgery.

[booyalab]

But what if having a bump on your nose was suddenly considered the epitome of beauty? Would you still want to fix it?

I suspect no. That's why I say that cultural norms have to play a role in a person's decision to get plastic surgery.
but some women get disgustingly huge breast implants, while others get drastic breast reductions, and both are living in the same culture.

[booyalab]

and there are plenty of flat women that dont get implants at all

[Neppy]

But what if having a bump on your nose was suddenly considered the epitome of beauty? Would you still want to fix it?

I suspect no. That's why I say that cultural norms have to play a role in a person's decision to get plastic surgery.

I don't find it terribly ugly. I just don't like it. It's too big for my face. D: But I suspect you're right. I'm not about to deny that cultural norms play a role in our idea of perfection or beauty. As a child I was sometimes bullied for my nose and it's given me a negative opinion of it ever since.

I wouldn't change my nose to please other people though. People already consider me attractive (as far as I know) and I've no problems in that department... and I wouldn't use the term "fix", either. My nose isn't broken or imperfect. I'd just like it to look different. Although not enough to dish out £3000 for surgery. It's not important enough for me to spend large sums of money on it, or even important enough for me to think about very often.

Since the subject was brought up though... ;)

[lexiphanic]

and there are plenty of flat women that dont get implants at all

some people are even pressured into capitalization and punctuation


heinous

[CoHo]

I think the possible benefits (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4484728.stm) are worth the research...


I have been thinking about this lately (the topic, not getting it myself). Part of me feels as though it's only for people who place their personal value on the way they look.
Yeah, I tend to think of it as an attempt to bring people bowing down to the demands of our current lifestyle and how beauty is reflected in the media.

But then again, so is everything (http://extremecatholic.blogspot.com/images/abercrombie.jpg) else (http://www.beertownusa.com/prodimages/Golds%20Gym%20MGD%20lg.jpg)
on (http://www.wonderfullywacky.com/pocketbikeredblondelarge.jpg) the (http://www.bradpittfan.com/pics/apr001a.jpg) planet (http://www.dotsloft.co.uk/images/slim_main.jpg)

[booyalab]

some people are even pressured into capitalization and punctuation


heinous

SHUSH!!!!!!!!!

[Blue]

http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/4650/howentertainmentworks6rr.gif

+Blue

[joft]

the issue should "hit home" with me, but I don't really care. for all the research I've done, I'm not sure how much I would have needed the plastic surgery I had as a child for health purposes or how much for cosmetic. I guess people just consider cases like mine to be in a different category, but the line isn't so clear for me. now my condition is only really bothersome once or twice a year for about a week, or if I bend over or blood goes to my head for some reason then it can be uncomfortable, but I still want to have surgery for it. and I think that's vain, and I should just accept whatever pain, discomfort, and psychological troubles (or force myself to get over them), as fate. I can imagine what it would have been like if I were born decades, centuries, or millennia ago, and had to live with a golf ball size bump on my face, pushing my nose to the side and my teeth into very crooked positions, being unable to talk normally, being at risk of serious injury if it was struck, etc. I probably would not have survived very long. so, my life is a cheat.

I think the category of "plastic surgery" is fuzzy, and arbitrary. how do you distinguish between what's necessary and what isn't? why should anyone take painkillers? you could make an argument for necessity based on making it easier to complete some task, like taking aspirin to not be distracted from doing homework by a headache. but then consider the utilitarian benefits of cosmetic surgery; possibility of increased social status, gaining an advantage (or cutting a liability) in the dating exchange, eliminating the possible cause of a psychologically detrimental self-image (I can tell you from my experience that I'm starting to outgrow my practice of purposefully avoiding smiling or laughing, now that my teeth are straight and the bump in my face much smaller)

but if you forfeit the issue as too fuzzy and arbitrary or justify it for utilitarian purposes, how can you include those people who just live with their pains/problems? if you say there's something noble about it, then those who do opt for treatment are compromising, but if you say there's nothing inherently noble about it then by extension you're saying that the people who choose to live with their issue are sufferring needlessly for a stupid reason. there's a conflict of interests and I don't want to exclude anyone. so on a philosophical basis I'm undecided and just approving of every individual case.

[Neppy]

I'd personally say that surgery, for both health and cosmetic purposes, should primarily be for the purpose of improving the quality of your life - although that depends on what you consider factors for quality in life. Everybody has their own idea of quality.

[Geek Engineer]

Well hopefully I am not turing this into a direction that shouldn't be, but what about if you have breast cancer? I thought about this because one of the ladies on the van pool has breast cancer and is having one removed here soon. She was going to go for a reconstruction surgery afterwards at some point. I guess I can't argue against the necessity in a case like that, since it would be pretty obvious otherwise.

I know this is too idealistic, but it would be nice if everyone wasn't so hung up on external looks. Sort of reminds me of yesterday after getting my hair cut. One of the ladies was talking to her co-worker and I heard her say all of a sudden "looks aren't everything, I learned that the hard way." Look at me now I have to have "in" glasses to even have a chance at being "normal" and now I have to make sure I wear black socks with my black pants in order to impress. Is it going to come to one day when we all need plastic surgery to even get a date? Come on!!! It makes me sort of frustrated in a way that these things are so important to some people in the first place, when it isn't really what matters at the end of the day. Granted on the flip side of the coin it one of those things that is just instinctual and embedded within us to ensure survival of the species etc.

[TPol]

Makes me think of Dr. Seuss' Sneetches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches).

[Kilby]

While I believe getting ps in some cases is fine, when it's just a boob job then I think it is fine as well, b/c it allows you to know something about that person and what kind of mind that have. You can think that "oh, she has to fit in and be loved, so she got a job done."
It is a good way to gauge someone's values and priorities in life even if you don't know them.

[sbw]

While I believe getting ps in some cases is fine, when it's just a boob job then I think it is fine as well, b/c it allows you to know something about that person and what kind of mind that have. You can think that "oh, she has to fit in and be loved, so she got a job done."
It is a good way to gauge someone's values and priorities in life even if you don't know them.

agreed.

Scott

[eyebyte_atWork]

Nah - I work out so that I can feel good about myself - I may want to be wanted - but not neccessarely accepted- I could not care any less about being in any crowd (in or out or whatever). Does that make sense?

I would probably get plastic surgery at some point - and see nothing wrong with doing it - as long as it is within reason - and not some delusion.

I may change my mind tomorrow.

[Ivy]

I want to see Eyebyte's calf implants when the time comes!

[abathur]

It's a rough subject. Personally, I "think" we'd be far better off if we're happy with who we are, and aren't trying to change our physical appearance all the time. I think, mentally, it is far healthier to come to terms with what you are, in all respects, than to change it. That isn't, though, to say you shouldn't change--but I'd say it isn't something you should do until you're already completely comfortable with what you are.

Either way, I still think it's pretty gross, especially implants. Despite all this (and it rather disturbs me that I feel this way, but no amount of rational thought otherwise has changed my occasional desire to do so) I'd consider changing one thing. the skin above my right eye folds differently than the skin over my left, when they're open. It's fairly slight, and I've never felt shunned, looked down on or stared at because of it. Almost everyone's eyes are off a bit, so it's pretty natural for one to look different, but the odd fold bothers me when I see myself in the mirror.

Alas, I'll probably never have it fixed, because I don't think I really care enough to go under the knife in any means for it, but I do still occasionally think about it.

[Sue Denim]

Try understanding your father's reasons, rather than projecting your own judgements onto your father's decision. I see no reason for you to either validate or invalidate your father's reasons.

Everyone's reasons are different.

[nottaprettygal]

I want to see Eyebyte's calf implants when the time comes!

Heh. Reminds me of some show I saw on MTV. There was this guy who was "perfect" except that he had puny calves. So, he got implants...It looked painful. They bled a lot. He was probably the most conceited person ever. He could have used a personality transplant if you ask me.


Try understanding your father's reasons, rather than projecting your own judgements onto your father's decision. I see no reason for you to either validate or invalidate your father's reasons.

Eventually I came to an understanding. I have even told him that if it makes him happy, that's all that matters. I'm not even sure if it's right to look at his surgery in the same light as others. He lost a lot of weight and had some loose skin hanging around his middle that he wanted to get rid of. I realize that the surgery was more of a celebration of all his hard work, not purely for vanity's sake.

[ApeTheDog]

Plastic surgery might help with the first impression a person makes with other people, and I imagine ugly people would grow tired of always leaving a negative one. Of course it's always done for oneself - I can't imagine anyone caring enough about other people to change their body for them. They do care about what other people think about themselves - but that is still caring for yourself by proxy. Caring for the image you project on others, for the sake of reciprocation.

There are some people who are quite vain, and can't seem to push themselves past peoples looks - who spend their entire lives reaping the benefits of looking good, and receiving positive attention for it. I believe it's possible to spend your entire life being like that, as long as you look good enough and have people interested in meeting you for your physique. I'd wager people who have lived like this for a long time would feel the effects of suddently being found less attractive more - not having themselves spent a lot of time developing other qualities that would keep people interested in talking with you without the incentive of getting physical or having goodlooking friends - and would be more prone to have plastic surgery at a later age.

[Ivy]

Heh. Reminds me of some show I saw on MTV. There was this guy who was "perfect" except that he had puny calves. So, he got implants...It looked painful. They bled a lot. He was probably the most conceited person ever. He could have used a personality transplant if you ask me.

I saw that! That was what I had in mind when I posted. LOL He was the guy who thought he was such a stud, and the ONLY thing that was inadequate about him was his calves, but when they interviewed people who had interacted with him in clubs and such, they could hardly keep a straight face talking about him. That was great.

Speaking personally, I would have certain kinds of corrective surgery (i.e. after a mastectomy, maybe) without hesitation. I can't say I haven't waxed poetic about a full midsection lipo and lift to get back to the pre-babies state of things, but when I think about going under for that, I snap back to reality pretty quickly.

[meshou]

I might get it some day.

I want kids. Kids tear up your stomach muscles, making it impossible to have a flat stomach with excercize unless you're REALLY lucky. I might get rid of hanging flesh which won't go away.

If there was an option to do so, I would get a way to make my eyes more.... co-operative. I have trouble not splaying them when I look up, and it definately makes me look a little crazy.

My grandmother has trouble seeing because her eyelids are very puffy, and her optometrist reccomended seeing someone. She's getting them done.

I used to have D-cups. Going down to a AA really did a number on them. They're just not what they should be at my age. I would consider getting very small implants (like, one cup size) so they at least look young again. I'd be hesitant to do anything that didn't look real.

My torso is as long as my six-foot-five dad's. I'm five three. I wouldn't do that horrific surgery they've got now, but fuck yes, if there was something quick, I'd take it in an instant. It makes me look very young, it's near impossible to reach anything, flattering clothes are far between, and combined with the shoulders of a six foot tall woman, I just don't look right.

Vanity? Sure. I like myself fine. That doesn't mean I wouldn't restore what I used to have or should have at my age.