Tell me about ENTJs

[distraction tactics]

I realize this may not be the most appropriate place to ask the question, and I do plan to check out N-central, but I'm going to risk it anyway because in a weird sort of way I've come to respect the INTP's take. There's been a lot of passing mention made on this type here at INTPC, but searching through the archives shows there's not a lot of in-depth discussion. In short, what the hell do you think of ENTJs? What do you think makes them tick? Powerful? Annoying? Confidant? Enemy?

As usual, any topic I raise has a personal relevence.

The following two profiles resonate strongly within me: http://socion.info/ENTJ.html and http://www.bestfittype.com/entj.html

Given the frustration I've found in MBTI failing to accurately describe the way I think and act, it's almost disconcerting to finally read something that details my thoughts and actions to a near 100% accuracy (at least in how I regard myself - YMMV).

Reading about the ENTJ type has made a few things clear:

-Concern for social justice is no longer a runaway Fe.
-Seeing people as people, and people as tools are not conflicting views.
-Tolerance one minute and impatience the next are not conflicting reactions.
-Being warm and accomadating to one person, and reserved and stand-offish to another is not conflicting behaviour.
-I can subvert pointless authority and admire positive social structure.
-Nothing is impossible - it's simply a qustion of how bad you want it.
-Why I elevate my standards over another's.
-The very real difference between a conflict and the people involved in it.

--

So what are your thoughts?

(...and if all you have to say is 'You are not an N', that's fine too.)

[Xander]

My father is an ENTJ so I could go on for hours about the type.
Suffice to say he is like me but cannot do the whole P thing of going past a certain point of sanity whilst analysing a subject.
Also he is a terrible person for introspection.
He's studdied psychology and yet he can't apply the thoeries to himself. only to others.
Will post more when I'm not at work.

[Xander]

It's quite weird that thwo people can exist inside one guy.
I guess that everyone has it.
On the one hand my father is cool calm and logical. He can remain the centre of peace in a discussion and can even interpret my ramblings! (Though that may have been a hard won and painful achievement.)
He is pragmatic and an enemy of mess. In fact any humour which requires mess, such as a pie fight, couldn't stir the slightest laugh, though the one about the one eyed deer had him in stiches. Oh yeah his sense of humour is way off the wall. Mundane things appear funny, god knows why.
OH and the consuming interest with detail. Not minute detail but detail anyway.
A trainspotter (he says he has reformed but who'd believe that!) and an interest in model railways, though he is rarely as anal about it as some fanatics.

I'd say the most succinct description of him would be that his goal is fixed. His standards unmoving. His methods, logical and appropriate. His feelings, obvious and yet never admitted to. His confidence, as strong as a mountain but as vunerable as a kitten.

Does any of that help?

[distraction tactics]

...

Sounds like a person you want to admire, yet throttle all at the same time.



Does any of that help?

It's all relevent. I can't discount anecdotal evidence in this context.

What's especially important to me, is the source(s) of any disconnect you two may have with ENTJs. Clearly, parents hold an emotional power over us few can match - the case could be made this both skews perception and makes it more clear.

[TPol]

In short, what the hell do you think of ENTJs? What do you think makes them tick? Powerful? Annoying? Confidant? Enemy?

I knowingly know one ENTJ, and he's a friend rather than a parent (like the others here described). He isn't annoying to me, but he is annoying to those who don't want blunt honesty or who don't get things done quickly enough for his tastes. He seems very confident in the disciplines with which he is familiar and quite eager & patient in learning those with which he is not. He is not "powerful" in this community because it is an older, conservative community who saw his partying teen years and are also too hung up on his being an "unconventional" sort. In a younger, less uptight society, I think he'd probably gain some power, though.

Regarding your list, I find that it isn't much different than the perspectives held by my INTJ hubby as well as the ENTJ friend....and me, in some ways:

-Concern for social justice is no longer a runaway Fe.
* The ENTJ I know has more of a tendency to be an emotion-driven vigilante for a cause than the INTJ does. The INTJ is more likely to work logically and subtly behind the scenes to manipulate toward justice.

-Seeing people as people, and people as tools are not conflicting views.
* Both ENTJs and INTJs have this perspective, from what I've seen. The word "tools" sparks fury in some, but it is simply another way of saying that people are of use in making the plan happen. Doesn't lessen them to being "objects" in their eyes; just means they understand where people can best be positioned for the maximum benefit to all involved in the idea.

-Tolerance one minute and impatience the next are not conflicting reactions.
* I'm not quite sure what this is getting at in terms of the NT world in which I live. This, to me, would imply a flippant practice in displaying emotions...which are not conducive in making things happen in the NTJ world.

-Being warm and accomadating to one person, and reserved and stand-offish to another is not conflicting behaviour.
* True for me and my INTJ, but not so much for the ENTJ friend. He is extroverted enough that he loves being around people. Plus, he tries to be warm and accommodating toward everyone because he can get more accomplished that way.

-I can subvert pointless authority and admire positive social structure.
* I think many of us are that way.

-Nothing is impossible - it's simply a qustion of how bad you want it.
* This is the motto this INTJ and ENTJ both live by. The ENTJ has actually surprised us in some of the things he goes for but has been able to pull off. The INTJ goes for just as big or bigger projects, but the ENTJ goes for more of the "outlandish" ones than the INTJ normally would.

-Why I elevate my standards over another's.
* "Because I know they work." That's the answer you'd get from them both.

-The very real difference between a conflict and the people involved in it.
* I see no difference, but maybe that's the difference between an INTP and an ENTJ/INTJ.

Some descriptive words for the ENTJ friend: hard-working, persistent, neat-freak, loves being among people, non-conformist, confident, hard-pressed to let any great ideas just die without action being taken, intuitive, doesn't like to take a whole lot of time to read and certainly not for pleasure, attentive father, can get nit-picky, blunt, resourceful, can get domineering without realizing it, moral, adventurous in the business world.

[Biff_Loman]

My father is an ENTJ. . . Disconnect? Work ethic is the first that springs to mind. My god, my father is more productive than I am, and much much harder on himself.

I could actually share a lot on this topic, but you'll have to narrow it down if I'm to comment further. What precisely do you mean?

[distraction tactics]

-Concern for social justice is no longer a runaway Fe.
* The ENTJ I know has more of a tendency to be an emotion-driven vigilante for a cause than the INTJ does. The INTJ is more likely to work logically and subtly behind the scenes to manipulate toward justice.

It's weird because I find myself invested in some causes with which I personally have no association - for example, I've gotten into some heated arguments in support of gay marriage, though I don't currently know an openly gay person, much less one who wants to get married. 'Arguing the other side' was one of the main reasons I first believed myself to be an INTP.


-Seeing people as people, and people as tools are not conflicting views.
* Both ENTJs and INTJs have this perspective, from what I've seen. The word "tools" sparks fury in some, but it is simply another way of saying that people are of use in making the plan happen. Doesn't lessen them to being "objects" in their eyes; just means they understand where people can best be positioned for the maximum benefit to all involved in the idea.

Exactly. Plus, when in positions of leadership I'm more than willing to forego my overall plan if one person has misgivings about their place in it. I recognize their feelings and will work to place them in what they consider to be the best possible position even if I don't agree that's the case.


-Tolerance one minute and impatience the next are not conflicting reactions.
* I'm not quite sure what this is getting at in terms of the NT world in which I live. This, to me, would imply a flippant practice in displaying emotions...which are not conducive in making things happen in the NTJ world.

This was specifically targeting my attitude that making mistakes are necessary for gaining experience and understanding in all things. However, if you refuse to learn from them and continually fuck up (be it inserting widget A into gadget C instead of thingamabobber B, or just life choices in general), then my patience goes out the window and you deserve whatever choice words that come out of my mouth.



I can subvert pointless authority and admire positive social structure.
* I think many of us are that way.

Touche. I hate this tendency to consider human traits specific only to one or two types. This is applicable to most if not all of the above traits - it could be they are stronger in the ENTJ, however.


-Nothing is impossible - it's simply a qustion of how bad you want it.
* This is the motto this INTJ and ENTJ both live by. The ENTJ has actually surprised us in some of the things he goes for but has been able to pull off. The INTJ goes for just as big or bigger projects, but the ENTJ goes for more of the "outlandish" ones than the INTJ normally would.

This I truly believe, and I maintain my biggest personal failing is not giving enough of a shit about any one thing to see it through. I think my 'projects', as you will, have been limited by financial resources, but I have pulled off some crazy things (though again, this behaviour doesn't seem to be limited to one type).


-The very real difference between a conflict and the people involved in it.
* I see no difference, but maybe that's the difference between an INTP and an ENTJ/INTJ.

I liken this to, "I don't respect your beliefs, but I do respect you". Two sides of the same coin? Most would agree, but it doesn't always hold true. I think it's perfectly possible to attack the view without attacking the person, or rather, not making the issue personal.

[distraction tactics]

My father is an ENTJ. . . Disconnect? Work ethic is the first that springs to mind. My god, my father is more productive than I am, and much much harder on himself.

I could actually share a lot on this topic, but you'll have to narrow it down if I'm to comment further. What precisely do you mean?

I'm inclined to think that a lot of personal insight can be gained from how others react towards you. Especially in the context of the negative. We often see the reaction and results of a situation, but rarely are the machinations behind the emotions explained. Such is what I'm doing here, to see if any nuggets can be gleaned to either confirm or deny my suspicions, or even just to learn something new about human interaction in general.

For example, the disconnect between you and your father on work ethic could be:

-Jealousy. His effortless ability to get things done is something you wish you had as well, and is a source of insecurity. Therefore, not something he should change about himself.

-Values. You two have very different ideas on the importance of work, and it would be beneficial for him to realize this for a better relationship between you.

...Or something entirely different.

[meshou]

The ENTJ I know:

Very concerned with his appearance, yet wears bright, flashy, garish colors.

Very smart, but does not have the attention span to read much.

A wonderful communicator, but gets the titles to songs, popular sayings, the punchlines to jokes (which he loves to tell), and sound alike words wrong. A lot.

Very serious. Comes across as goofy.

Talkative and friendly, unable to hide ANY emotion or thought he as whatsoever. An advantage to him-- people who are empathetic, not totally sure of a subject, or need some personal or emotional space are easily overwhelmed if he has an interpersonal goal.

He is not particularly strong willed or disiplined, but instead driven.

Bad temper which got better as he aged.

A STRONG streak of idealisim, which also tends to be his blindspot. Very emotional for a thinker, but like all thinkers, treats his feelings like a mysterious force of nature rather than a way of thinking. ALWAYS has some idyllic idea or cause in the back of his head he can get sidetracked by, but has a little difficulty determining the particulars of when, where, why, how and who when it comes to faith. When it pays off, it pays of well, but he often makes BAD mistakes, and then has to do a lot of soul searching.

The above behavior is a within the decade type thing. He moved from a strong type three to a 2 w 3 on the enneagram.


Most ENTJs I know are a little to hard for me to handle at first. They get better after I know them, but there's a little discomfort after as well.

[distraction tactics]

Very serious. Comes across as goofy.

Any chance of dry humour at work here?


He is not particularly strong willed or disiplined, but instead driven.

I think this is a valuable distinction to make, though it sounds very SPish.


Bad temper which got better as he aged.

A STRONG streak of idealisim, which also tends to be his blindspot. Very emotional for a thinker, but like all thinkers, treats his feelings like a mysterious force of nature rather than a way of thinking. ALWAYS has some idyllic idea or cause in the back of his head he can get sidetracked by, but has a little difficulty determining the particulars of when, where, why, how and who when it comes to faith. When it pays off, it pays of well, but he often makes BAD mistakes, and then has to do a lot of soul searching.

How old of a man is he?

[booyalab]

my ex is an ENTJ. I think he's nuts, but I really admire his strong convictions, sense of humor, and intellect. I have never known anyone so intense or with such fascinating ideas. He used to scare the shit out of my mom, but he had this emotional vulnerability that he only showed to me. (or anyone else he had an intimate relationship with). Some of his faults: unbe-fucking-lievably fatalistic, principled to a fault, giving with one hand taking away with the other, anti-social, self-righteous.

[TPol]

It's weird because I find myself invested in some causes with which I personally have no association - for example, I've gotten into some heated arguments in support of gay marriage, though I don't currently know an openly gay person, much less one who wants to get married. 'Arguing the other side' was one of the main reasons I first believed myself to be an INTP.

You stand up for logic and fairness. Makes sense to me.


Exactly. Plus, when in positions of leadership I'm more than willing to forego my overall plan if one person has misgivings about their place in it. I recognize their feelings and will work to place them in what they consider to be the best possible position even if I don't agree that's the case.

The INTJ and ENTJ here are the same way. The INTJ is more diligent about doing so, but I think that's an age/experience thing rather than a personality difference. The INTJ is about 7 years older than the ENTJ and far more experienced with managerial roles. From what I've seen, both are great leaders. As a general rule, the potential pitfalls they encounter are not recognizing those feelings "long enough" to satisfy the feeler and people thinking they are cold/evil because they don't display emotions when stating their reasonings/argument.


This was specifically targeting my attitude that making mistakes are necessary for gaining experience and understanding in all things. However, if you refuse to learn from them and continually fuck up (be it inserting widget A into gadget C instead of thingamabobber B, or just life choices in general), then my patience goes out the window and you deserve whatever choice words that come out of my mouth.

Ah, I see. The original wording didn't say that to me. So, yes, I can understand. The INTJ has stated something very similar to this many times -- "If so-and-so continually goes against good advice, insisting on getting himself into mess after mess, he can't expect me to dig him out of it. He's on his own." The more I age and have experience with people, the more I am getting this perspective, too. The ENTJ is still young enough that he hasn't gotten to this point quite yet, it doesn't seem.


This I truly believe, and I maintain my biggest personal failing is not giving enough of a shit about any one thing to see it through. I think my 'projects', as you will, have been limited by financial resources, but I have pulled off some crazy things (though again, this behaviour doesn't seem to be limited to one type).

If you are an INTJ or ENTJ, I'd suspect you just haven't found something that really sparks your interest yet. Or, because of limited funds, your projects haven't gone far enough toward completion for you to continue to maintain the interest in it. The ENTJ here had a tendency to start off with BIG projects that would peter out because of lack of funding. Over and over again this happened until he got frustrated that they were just "all unfulfilled dreams." Then, he got to watching my INTJ hubby and asking some questions that helped him realize that the best approach is to start with small, money-making projects (several) that, together, started bringing in the cash that can be used to start up a bigger project, which can then bring in cash to start a bigger one yet. Snowball effect. Granted, it takes superior managerial skills, the ability to multi-task, and attention to detail, but both have those qualities.


I liken this to, "I don't respect your beliefs, but I do respect you". Two sides of the same coin? Most would agree, but it doesn't always hold true. I think it's perfectly possible to attack the view without attacking the person, or rather, not making the issue personal.

Ah, I understand. Again, the original wording didn't say that to me, but now I can agree. Thanks for the rewording. Attacking the view is definitely not attacking the person. However, this is one of the things that my INTJ struggles with the most. The majority out there cannot take such an attack without thinking it's personal. Even quietly disagreeing gets him into trouble with some of the more sensitive types because of how strong he is in his stance. He loves to pick apart concepts and theories in order to assess their logic and strength. While I consider this an admirable trait, many have seen it as a picking apart of themselves, for they are quite wedded to their version of the concept/theory. This is a troublesome roadblock in accomplishing goals, in the view of an NTJ.

[joft]

I strongly identify with the wanting to be at the forefront of advancement and combination of powerfully conflicted idealism and pragmatism things

[Zephyrus055]

My mom is an ENTJ. While she can occasionally be intellectually stimulating, she usually annoys me domestically. For example, I might be explaining some concept and then she will interrupt me, rabbling about how "inexperienced" I am. Other times, when I discuss my problems associated with my P, she claims that I am making excuses when in reality I'm trying to reason through a solution. My INTJ dad does this too, but atleast he's much more receptive to my lectures, while my mom has the "shut up and get it done first" attitude. My mom is also very intrusive, demanding I give her a schedule or she'll tell me hers when I don't want it - even if it's going to bed or work.

But on the upside, there are those moments when she'll get in to an awesome discussion with me. Most importantly she is very good at frightening away my largely SJ (and some SPs) extended family, who find me a prime target for criticism. For example, she recently stamped my ISTP brother in to submission after he decided that I was sheltered because I refused his job offer (15+ hours in hot/humid weather and hard labor). And my ESTJ brother fears her (he doesn't nearly fear anyone else)! Which is good, because he used to like criticising me, atleast until my mom retaliated with a frenzy for his idiocy. She atleast understands me better than anyone else, whereas you could come to the conclusion that my extended SJ family thinks that if you aren't church going, live at home with your parents at 19, and aren't going to a four year college, then you're sheltered. I have atleast found someone in my mom who is a supportive facilitator of growth for me. At least she is supporting my goal to be an accomplished Professor, which is much better than what I can say for my SJ family who would sooner throw me in to a factory if given the opportunity.

Then I admire my mother's superb ability to lead people. She has this natural charisma about her that draws you in to following her, heh. It has made her in to a successful business woman, and she apparently runs the company she works for in all but name. When her old company was bought out, she was going to be fired after a few months until they realized how much of an important asset she was. Now she is flying through the ranks because they realized how effectively she makes the idle productive and bureaucracy efficient, hehe. She's definitely a woman I deeply admire and can learn from, and I love her more than anyone else in my family. Now if only we can solve the J vs. P conflict...

The only thing I am worried about my mom is that I think she may be trying to centralize the family under her authority. *shreaks*

[meshou]

Any chance of dry humour at work here?Ooooh, no. The man is positively hammy. His humor God is Austin Powers, who he misquotes religiously.

His wife is an INFJ. It's hard to tell if she hates or loves this, since it about sums him up in certain ways.
I think this is a valuable distinction to make, though it sounds very SPish.He definately is not a P, although he may be only a mild N.

He's an inventor, has sold a couple of patents, started and sold a couple of businesses, has come up with a couple math based gambling systems that he's lived off of, then abandoned because he could make more money elsewhere. He was a welder who repaired oil rigs, then invented a couple minor devices for oil rigs. When he did some car work, he invented then sold a pretty tool box for cars. When he had children, he invented a soft rail so three year olds wouldn't fall out of bed.

In short, he could be an SP, if it weren't for the fact he seems to constantly look at the world as a problem to solve, then go about solving it.
How old of a man is he?Fifty or so.

[Sally]

My boss is an ENTJ, which is fabulous. We work very well together. She's very much the captain of the ship. Typical ENTJ great leadership - motivation in spades, blind to obstacles or improbabilities in the Big Picture, but at the same time very rational about the details. We have very, very short conversations, because we're usually on the exact same page in terms of comprehension. She tells me what she wants; I make it happen.

She's got an offbeat, morbid sense of humor. She cares about people as people but she uses them - and loses patience with them - as tools. No conflict whatsoever on that front.

I doubt she spends much if any time on introspection. Everything's "make it happen." Runs about three separate but related enterprises. Has three adopted kids and a house husband. I imagine that she makes a very fun working parent - especially since her kids are rather young. She doesn't have much time to spend with them, but she's very good at focusing on the matter at hand. Work time is work time. Play time is play time. When she does actually have time to play with her family. Which is slightly more time than she spends on sleeping, which is not much.

So again comparing INTP - ENTJ. Biggest similarity is definitely the rational, cold-blooded, high perceptive comprehension of abstract concepts, including people. Biggest difference - motivation to affect external reality. Which is all as you would expect. She's motivated and she's logical and she pays me, which is plenty motivation for me. Then I can go home and revel in I__P lazy directionless anything to my heart's content. Except for the damn laundry and dishes and shopping....

[Zephyrus055]

I want to be a house husband to an ENTJ! That's my vocational dream!

[Sally]

Oh, and when I say that she focuses on one thing at a time, I think that everything else is still going on in the back of her mind - she's got so many things going on - but she can give the forefront - give her attention - to what's right in front of her.

It amazes me. I tend to get so involved in one thing at a time that it's hard to transition. But with La Generalissima - as I sometimes refer to her - it's as though her mind is extremely organized; she has no problem shuffling through situations rapidly and not losing her place anywhere and not getting distracted by anything.

[Sally]

I want to be a house husband to an ENTJ! That's my vocational dream!

I know. XD So focused, so rational, so inticingly motivated to make things happen, which I on my own can never do....

I wonder if it wouldn't be exhausting to live with one. But on the other hand, they tend to spend most of their time at work.......

[nobarcode]

What seems difficult is that NTJs have a cause, or loyalty rather, that doesn't seem readily translatable (...and has nothing to do with morality). I think that's key. I also think neither wishes to explain.

I 'disconnect' from a good ETNJ friend on the basis that he needs to visibly show his trickery whereas I don't given we both 'know' the result -given context (Yet, sometimes it's fun). I suspect he disconnects in the same opposed way, but that self knowledge doesnt change much between us. I guess we respect each other.

[2ds]

Oh dear, I know two ENTJ's. onemore intimately than the other.

I think meshou's description of them lacking self control but being driven fits them to a tee.

They both grew up in very emotionally invalidating environments. I see this as probably being the big key to who they are as people at this point in their lives (they're both in their mid-early 20's). One of them grew up with her parents and relatives calling her ugly, fat, useless, etc (she isn't). The other one was a mistake that his parents kept, they used to go out drinking and leave him at home by himeself when he was about 7 to look after his little sister. they took her away from him to send her to boarding school when she was 5. he felt like they'd stolen everything from him.

They're both _VERY_ selfish and manipulative and like to hear their own voices.

They both play a games with other people to make themselves feel better. this basically involves making other people like them and feel ... empathy for them (because they have such fucked up lives) and then ignoring the people and treating them like shit when they've fallen into the trap.

Unfortunately this only makes them feel better for a little while and they have trouble sleeping at night because they know deep down they're fucking horrible people. They're treating their friends like shit and there is no way to hide from youself in that dreamlike state between sleep and wakefullness, you can only stare into your own black heart with revulsion. they both work very hard and surround themselves with people to keep them from thinking about this.

Th guy has been down that path and come out the other side and is much happier about who he is, he can sleep at night now knowing that he isn't hurting people to make himself feel better. the girl hasn't, she hit me right after i broke up with my ex gf and played with me for a few months. i don't talk to her anymore (thought i should include this as a disclaimer, also she doesn't sleep with guys, just gets them interested nad walks away).

After me the girl proceeded to go through a bunch of my firneds and none of them ever talked to each other about it. it's quite a feat of manipulation to hide something like that from so many people. She has no female friends because women can smell it on her and wont put up with her shit.\

Now the guy is chasing the girl, it's quite amusing to watch. maybe they're perfect for each other.

I'm very wary of entj's

-2ds

[TPol]

So, distraction tactics, are you thinking pretty definitely now that you're an ENTJ?

[distraction tactics]

So, distraction tactics, are you thinking pretty definitely now that you're an ENTJ?

As I said, those two descriptions were very accurate. Some of the personal observations don't fit (at least in my observation, but who knows really?), but maybe I'm just especially cranky. I think stress/dissatisfaction/depression/boredom modifies behaviour in interesting ways.

[geniusndisguise]

I really think my father is an ENTJ, but I don't know so take this for what it's worth.

There is an air of control around him, like he could take charge of any situation. I was always a little afraid of him. Accomplishment is obviously important to him. He went to school for electrical engineering and now does consulting in some kind of technical field. I never did understand. He's somewhat of a weekend warrior. He can sit still, but he likes to be doing things. Skiing, biking, windsurfing, hiking, berry picking, snowmobiling. He drove me nuts as a kid dragging me on all these excursions. He does read a lot, but I can't see him staying in all weekend with a book like me. He never really did well with relationships, although I don't know the details of that area. The two of us rarely talk, but only because we're both horrible about keeping in touch with people. That's too bad because looking back we had the most interesting conversations about wacky things. He had this "theory" that GOD was the Global Online Database and a long time ago, everyone had consulted it for every decision they made, and then it crashed and civilization fell and when they started over all they remembered was that GOD was the answer to everything.

[Winterpark]

It's weird because I find myself invested in some causes with which I personally have no association - for example, I've gotten into some heated arguments in support of gay marriage, though I don't currently know an openly gay person, much less one who wants to get married. 'Arguing the other side' was one of the main reasons I first believed myself to be an INTP.

I do that all the time. And I don't think it has anything to do with being an INTP or an "N" type.

[distraction tactics]

I do that all the time. And I don't think it has anything to do with being an INTP or an "N" type.

Possibly, but most people can't or are unwilling to separate the personal from the political, so to speak, and are confused when others do. Perhaps this is along the T/F divide.

[Nighthawk]

I dated a couple of ENTJs. Although we got along great as friends, I found them too demanding as partners. They always wanted to know exactly where we stood and exactly what I was thinking ... whereas I preferred more ambiguity and just seeing where things would go. They would browbeat me about this on a regular basis ... which eventually caused me to retreat entirely. Very aggressive people.

[Ella]

I don't usually make blanket statements about a specific type but I have to say I've NEVER met an ENTJ that I've liked. Their need to be generals directing everything and everyone around them is unbelieveable. I've worked for an ENTJ (he was tested) for about six years now and it's been one of the most horrible experiences of my life. The "little Hitler" characterization is right on for him. His ego is enormous and he needs to be if not the constant center of attention then at the center of a constant swirl of people and activities, the more chaotic the better because the greater the need for him to direct things. He'll happily contribute to the chaos to keep it going, too. He tries to micromanage things he has no idea about just for the sake of "directing" and in doing so he messes things up, continually creating more work for himself and others. He almost never listens to anyone - he doesn't have to, he's the Big General. People are just tools to be directed. He doesn't give a damn about anyone or anything else, he just follows the compulsion to direct, direct, direct.

He's very intelligent and his NT makes for an excellent meeting of the minds, but the rest of it is so ugly that it outweighs the good. I don't think he sees anyone as his peer or equal. I cannot begin to imagine being in a romantic relationship with someone like that.

[2ds]

whops i should amend my statement, i think i was drinking that night, one is an enFj and the oehr is borderline t/f

-2ds

[Al Cpwn]

I don't usually make blanket statements about a specific type but I have to say I've NEVER met an ENTJ that I've liked. Their need to be generals directing everything and everyone around them is unbelieveable. I've worked for an ENTJ (he was tested) for about six years now and it's been one of the most horrible experiences of my life. The "little Hitler" characterization is right on for him. His ego is enormous and he needs to be if not the constant center of attention then at the center of a constant swirl of people and activities, the more chaotic the better because the greater the need for him to direct things. He'll happily contribute to the chaos to keep it going, too. He tries to micromanage things he has no idea about just for the sake of "directing" and in doing so he messes things up, continually creating more work for himself and others. He almost never listens to anyone - he doesn't have to, he's the Big General. People are just tools to be directed. He doesn't give a damn about anyone or anything else, he just follows the compulsion to direct, direct, direct.

He's very intelligent and his NT makes for an excellent meeting of the minds, but the rest of it is so ugly that it outweighs the good. I don't think he sees anyone as his peer or equal. I cannot begin to imagine being in a romantic relationship with someone like that.
Probably a psychopath. Did he get tested for that? Well, if he messes up, he could be a sociopath. Was he ever arrested for anything?

[Ella]

I don't think he's pathological, just an ENTJ. lol He has no legal trouble that I'm aware of. I see his correspondence and know his friends, I'd know if something came up. His kids, OTOH, have all kinds of trouble. A neighbor once remarked to me that he fully expects the ENTJ's youngest son to murder someone someday. I completely agree. Those are seriously messed up kids. The ENTJ likes the chaos and the "need" for him to direct their lives, so he helps keep their messed-up-ness going.

[outcast]

I don't think he's pathological, just an ENTJ. lol He has no legal trouble that I'm aware of. I see his correspondence and know his friends, I'd know if something came up. His kids, OTOH, have all kinds of trouble. A neighbor once remarked to me that he fully expects the ENTJ's youngest son to murder someone someday. I completely agree. Those are seriously messed up kids. The ENTJ likes the chaos and the "need" for him to direct their lives, so he helps keep their messed-up-ness going.


Wow. What a sad world they live in. :boohoo: How can someone sacrifice their children like that? <_<

[Nemesis]

An ENTJ. Imagine an ENFJ without any sympathy.

I have a friend whose an ENTJ. Perhaps he's just underdeveloped. He's 10 days younger than me (meaning yes, I too am admittedly not fully mentally developed as you all know). He and I met Halloween night when we were both 16. Our mutual friends had to go off and get something so I just stuck around with him. He and I talked for a while (I forget about what) and hit it off pretty well. We became best of friends and remained that way for about a year and a half. We barely talk anymore outside of nodding and mumbling greetings at eachother in the hallways in school anymore. Supposedly ENFJ's and ENTJ's get along great. I'm not too sure about that though. Apart from the fact that he's a die hard right wing Republican (not religiously though, thank God) and I am a left leaning Democrat who fought like cats and dogs come election time, his complete lack of respect for everyone and his continued refusal to treat human beings LIKE HUMAN BEINGS is what drove me away from him. He recently had a girlfriend who I became friends with. He treated her terribly, cheated on her, got back together with her just because he had already bought tickets to the winter formal dance for them both and then broke up with her again. He would repeatedly try to take advantage of my loyalty as a friend to act like an asshole and get away with it and the straw that broke the camel's back was this other kid he became friends with. He became friends with an ESTJ. This particular ESTJ drove me up the wall. Everything I said he would contradict. Every discussion I've ever had with him would turn into him trying to out-fact me and trying to convince me of the inherent evil of Democrats. He was the master of flattery and would follow the ENTJ up the ass. The ENTJ, being an ENTJ, enjoyed having someone who obeyed his every command. I was basically like, "look man. I know it's not fair of me to say this and that it's not fair that you have to make this decision, but I'm going to and you have to. It's either me, or him. Take your pick." He never gave me a difinitive answer, but as lacrosse season came and went (they are both on the team and I am not) it was clear who he had picked. Now he's just someone who I'll talk to only if he initiates the conversation, and if I see him being an asshole, I fulfill my moral obligation to put him in his place, which I do by successfully making him look like a jackass to those watching and to himself. In short, I'm glad the relationship is over.

[jread]

I'm engaged to an ENTJ and have definitely learned a lot about them over the past few years. I also have another ENTJ friend, though he is pretty laid back for one. Some characteristics:

- They like being in control, all the time

- They are more sensitive and care more about people than INTP's do. They also are quite emotional with loved ones, though the rest of the world doesn't see this side of them

- Most people are afraid of them.... seriously. My fiancee can beat anyone into submission before they even know what hit them. She's effective because instead of an emotional outburst of nonsense, she's very serious and logical, forcefully showing the opponent that they are an idiot and this is why. The other person is usually unable to come back (save for emotional name-calling) and accepts their defeat. I'm the only one who will dig in and fight her tooth and nail, but this is only when it's something I really care about (which isn't much). She's said that this is why she is attracted to me... she respects me because I don't let her bulldoze me.

- They are extremely hypocritical. They will rip you a new one for doing a certain thing, then they will do the same thing themselves. If you call them on it, they get furious. I can think of many examples of this.

- They get shit done! Bills, appointments, shopping lists, chores, buying a house, doing taxes.... all the shit INTP's are too lazy or forgetful to ever do. If I didn't live with an ENTJ, I wouldn't have any of the things I have now. I had no idea these things were even possible.

- They don't like being alone. They want to talk to you or want to have you in the same room with them. If they do have to be alone, then they call someone or turn on the TV/radio and get a bunch of noise going around them.

- They don't have much self-discipline. They will work 80-hours a week, but they don't care for exercising or dealing with school. They also don't like to read for pleasure (except for magazines or catalogs). This probably has a lot to do with their short attention span.

- They are very bright and confident (sometimes over-confident) and know how to get what they want. They can outsmart most people and manipulate them to do their bidding. They are also capable of extremely productive intellectual conversation, but that is only if you can get them to listen to you for more than 10 seconds. In conversing with an ENTJ, you must remember that it's ok for them to get distracted by every minute thing happening around them (causing them to interrupt you), but if you try to talk in the middle of their 30-minute, extremely long-winded lectures, then you're interrupting them and you should die for that.


Overall, she's a very good match for me. Our P/J conflicts can be quite explosive at times but we have learned a lot about how to get along with one another. I think the INTP/ENTJ combo is great for both people as you kind of make each other "whole"; complimenting the strengths and weaknesses of each type.

[faith]

That sounds like a fair description, jread. I have a close friend who's ENTJ. We get along very well because I don't mind him being the boss as long as he's right, and when he's wrong I can usually make him see that.

I appreciate his willingness to change his opinion when he sees he's wrong, and his eagerness to use what he's learned in order to become more effective. He doesn't cling to old ideas once he's convinced they're incorrect.

As you point out, ENTJs have awesome abilities to accomplish things. But I haven't found my friend to be hypocritical at all.

He can actually be very moody and emotional and often doesn't know how to handle that. I think he likes the idea of denying feelings because they seem so powerful and uncontrollable to him--and, of course, he likes to be the powerful one who's in control. But he's incredibly thoughtful and caring, and, because he's generally effective, he's very good at finding practical ways to show he cares.

He's extremely responsible, trustworthy, and honest--if a bit headstrong and occasionally dense.

[AllThingsConsidered]

Overall, she's a very good match for me. Our P/J conflicts can be quite explosive at times but we have learned a lot about how to get along with one another. I think the INTP/ENTJ combo is great for both people as you kind of make each other "whole"; complimenting the strengths and weaknesses of each type.

I won't quote all that you said, but I agree with it in my experience.

Reading through this, it appears as though some are descriptions of the healthy ENTJ and some are the extreme.
The ENTJ in my life is irreplaceable. I am not sure if it is the mirrored dichotomies, or just the person I know.
It seems we spark each other in new directions and learning. It's very complimentory.
We can hear and relate to each other so well. We have almost oppositely progressing similar qualities. (Like a particle/antiparticle without the annihilation.)Yet at other times (Like when I put my foot down) we can get into it, which never lasts too long.

I can see the ENTJ being a sort of hard headed catalyst, but can be obviously vulnerable and sensitive to those they are very close to. (They just don't like to look so transparent.)


Edit: to quote faith, "He's extremely responsible, trustworthy, and honest--if a bit headstrong and occasionally dense."
To a tee.

[AcidGoethe]

I'm an ENTJ. What do you weaklings want to know?

[AllThingsConsidered]

I'm an ENTJ. What do you weaklings want to know?

Personally, I would want to know why you hang around here. What do you get from INTP types?
Not to derail the thread too much that is all about ENTJs.

[AcidGoethe]

Personally, I would want to know why you hang around here. What do you get from INTP types?
Not to derail the thread too much that is all about ENTJs.

As much as people's idiocy is a bliss for bossing them around, it can be a burden not to be able to talk about something intelligent. Small talk is so boring. You very rarely get the chance to talk about deeper topics IRL as you do on the internet. I come here to find refuge from the lack of mental stimulation. I like INTP's because they have a no bullshit attitude and see things differently from most people. They have always got an interesting alternative perspective on something. INTP's are amongst the few types I actually like.

[phenol]

My ENTJ friend will actually have conversations about intelligent topics with me, and he doesn't seem bothered by my lack of small talk ablility.

He's very confident in his knowledge which I admire. I'm an intellectual but I'm kinda unsure of myself most of the time.

[Electric]

Personally, I would want to know why you hang around here. What do you get from INTP types?
Not to derail the thread too much that is all about ENTJs.

Sorry to butt in but I got to say that you INTPs are gurus.