What type bothering you most? [Archive]

Universal

5 Oct 2004, 07:15 PM

Me? ENTJ. :rant:

ESTP "I'm a stud and the world revolves around me"
ISTP "I can make anything work"
ENTP "I can come up with a solution for anything"
INTP "I'm brilliant and you'd better bow to my genius"
ESTJ "I am in control"
ISTJ "I do everything right"
ENTJ "I am all-powerful"
INTJ "I am all-knowing"
ESFP "I am the most glamorous"
ISFP "Nobody has better taste than I do"
ENFP "I have the most enthusiasm"
INFP "I have the most sensitive conscience"
ESFJ "Everyone likes me and wants to be like me"
ISFJ "Nobody can get along without me"
ENFJ "I can teach anyone anything"
INFJ "I have the best intentions"

jittus rye

5 Oct 2004, 09:26 PM

People Bother me, Pshaw.

spirilis

5 Oct 2004, 09:37 PM

I was just chatting practically all day with an ENTJ female who entered the main IRC chat I frequent. Interesting fella. Definitely an "All About ME" type of person, but she was rather entertaining.

Boozer

5 Oct 2004, 10:43 PM

That fella threw me off, girl, no guy, no it's a girl...

Damn you IRC! Why can't they all be nubile 18 year olds girls that all want me!

*Realizes the sad truth that they are all iover-weight middle aged men*

:cry:

jimkopelli

6 Oct 2004, 03:57 AM

Stupid people.

INTrPosr

6 Oct 2004, 08:56 PM

ENTP "I can come up with a solution for anything"

or

INTP "I'm brilliant and you'd better bow to my genius"

Actually, I would never consider making that statement as INTP! Usually, I am the INTP - internal self-assurance. I am also not conspicuous.

booyalab

7 Oct 2004, 02:45 AM

I think the statements in that little list corresponding to each type are what each type strives for, but isn't necessarily what each thinks it has achieved. They're implicit.

Misty_Kye

7 Oct 2004, 05:22 PM

ESFJ or anyone else with the attitude of "Everyone likes me and wants to be like me"

I once worked for a guy with this attitude. Down side: Worst two years of my life. Up side: I learned that while there are things in this world worth dying for there is nothing in this world worth killing yourself forâ€¦ especially not this guy.
:rant:

YourLocalCynic

7 Oct 2004, 05:32 PM

ESFJ's and ENTP's are the only ones that really "bother"me, per se. The others I just automatically discredit as irrelevant and idiotic. How typical. :-D

Universal

7 Oct 2004, 06:34 PM

The list I wrote with the decription of each type is a description in an ulhealthy state of each type :hello:

cjs55

7 Oct 2004, 10:54 PM

In my circle of close friends I definitely have alot of trouble with 2 types in particular.

ISTJ "I do everything right" : I can't understand him, I can't ever convince him of everything, and anything I find interesting he finds a waste of time. I've known him since second grade, and we really have nothing to talk about. If we are in a 1 on 1 situation its very akward.

ENTP "I can come up with a solution for anything" : Its more like ENTP - "I am very clever, and use people as objects to demonstrate my cleverness to". He won't shut up about totally boring information, even after I've told him its boring. He constantly shows off and needs attention. He doesn't care if you are bored or uninterested, he only cares that you tell him he is great at piano or physics or whatever he is doing. He uses human beings to make him feel special. I really hate that.

Finally I don't get along well with anyone with a strong S in any circumstance. My N is so strong that I simply can't understand these people at all. We view the world so differently that it seems impossible to reconcile the two viewpoints.

booyalab

7 Oct 2004, 11:41 PM

The list I wrote with the decription of each type is a description in an ulhealthy state of each type :hello:

wrong. A type in an unhealthy state demonstrates the 'shadow', or the negative traits of it's polar opposite type. For example, if an intp is under stress, they will display the negative traits of an ESFJ: being over-sensitive, irrational obsession with details, etc. If, however, an intp is hair-splitting and giving the impression to others that they are a know-it-all, those are completely normal negative traits for it's type.

Universal

8 Oct 2004, 12:33 PM

In my circle of close friends I definitely have alot of trouble with 2 types in particular.

ISTJ "I do everything right" : I can't understand him, I can't ever convince him of everything, and anything I find interesting he finds a waste of time. I've known him since second grade, and we really have nothing to talk about. If we are in a 1 on 1 situation its very akward.

.

My boss at work is an ISTj i think. If you analyse his thoghts you may understand his point of view and it's not that dumb at all!!!!
But what I don't like about ISTJ they are cold and this is the ordinary way to do it like instead of come with something original. And when it comes to " To do right " he puts it infront of friendship.

You said about ENTP "He uses human beings to make him feel special. I really hate that."

My friend is an ENTP. We get a long so long we talk like 3 times a mounth, play some tennis, drive around the town. He is very unsure about his look and stoff but he has perfect grades at school, best student. He is very to be trusted on person and kind ... never noticed that he uses people like you said .... maybe ENTP you know is sick?
Btw. he runs from bees like from someone with a knife! :blink:

crule81

8 Oct 2004, 07:08 PM

UNVS

cjs55

8 Oct 2004, 07:49 PM

"My boss at work is an ISTj i think. If you analyse his thoghts you may understand his point of view and it's not that dumb at all!!!!"

I understand how his thoughts work, but I don't understand why anyone could think this is a preferable thing. I just can't put myself into his shoes.

I suppose ISTJ's are useful in some situations where there stubborness can help through completion of projects or when an ISTJ decided they need to be the best at any certain thing. But not really as friends it seems as you point out (although maybe with other types they work out better).

My ENTP friend probably has other psychological reasons that along with his type cause this sort of behavior. I think that ENTP's often have some of this in them, but he has more of it than most. Its not really malicious or terrible by any means. He doesn't totally use people, and in fact I'm pretty sure he doesn't do it concsiously. For some reason or another though, he constantly needs reassurance of his cleverness or goodness, and he will use people to get it.

Universal

8 Oct 2004, 10:10 PM

cjs55, their are very many ISTJ's ... just avoid them, or if you have to comunicate don't start arguing or discuss something, as some one said they will put you to your level and kill you with experiense. As one sick INTP 28 yo. girl said to me on MSN earlyer today when I sended her picture of someones dick and she showed it to all her friends, just lissan to what they say then just go to the next task.
When they speak to you look at them and think " What an idiot " he will think you respect him!

Any other types gets on your nerves?

Claverhouse

8 Oct 2004, 10:18 PM

But what I don't like about ISTJ they are cold

Oh, thank heaven I'm an INTP then.

Benevolently

Claverhouse :ph34r:

Boozer

8 Oct 2004, 10:20 PM

Claverhouse

8 Oct 2004, 10:22 PM

As one sick INTP 28 yo. girl said to me on MSN earlyer today when I sended her picture of someones dick and she showed it to all her friends, just lissan to what they say then just go to the next task.
When they speak to you look at them and think " What an idiot " he will think you respect him!

It's difficult to get respect in this crazy mixed-up world. Thanks for the tip.

Any other types gets on your nerves?

Take a wild guess.

Claverhouse :ph34r:

Universal

8 Oct 2004, 10:45 PM

Claverhouse

8 Oct 2004, 11:18 PM

I olso noticed that I block my thoghts when I am speaking, I think that they can " hear " my thoghts! Example. I am afraid to think " You are are moron " when speaking to a person cos I think he can " hear " it!
I am sure many others here do the same.

They can't hear ya! :hello:

Actually, one of the world's great pleasures is to look interested/respectful/dozy/polite etc. whilst internally one is considering the sheer stupidity of one's interlocutor; and/or what a blessing it would be if one unleashed some cossacks upon them.

How do you know what to say if you are consciously blocking your mind from thinking ?

Claverhouse :ph34r:

Universal

9 Oct 2004, 09:12 AM

Some times I don't know what to say!
your right I did not spoke very clear, I was afraid to think bad about the person while he spoke to me I was thinking positiv about him, cos I thoght if I think bad about him at the moment he speak to me he will notice it some how...

Biff_Loman

13 Dec 2004, 04:22 PM

ESFJs. . .
Piss.
Me.
Off.

I have yet to interact with a person who I suspected to be an ESFJ without encountering conflict within minutes. As soon as I begin to ascertain that a person might be an ESFJ, I detach from the conversation or at least input as little as possible.

I inevitably say something to offend them greatly, or they say something so vapid or illogical that I cannot help but reply: "That was the most ignorant thing I have ever heard" and then begin explaining why. I cannot stand to hear them prattle on about nonsense.

Hmm. . . A lot of people are complaining about ENTPs. Yeah, they can get a little annoying, but they are thinkers, after all. I know one ENTP who bugs me occasionally; I am not shy about telling him: "I don't like you right now. Go away." Sometimes it works.

ISTJs are irritating as hell when in positions of authority, but I would take an ISTJ boss to an ESFJ boss any day. Not that the choice is particularly palatable, but still. . .

mgb

13 Dec 2004, 04:27 PM

ESTJ think they are great at arguing but find one point and stick to it like glue. Drives/drove me nuts.

ESFJ because I can't stand that type of lifestyle. I just find it incredibly artificial.

SheepDog

13 Dec 2004, 04:28 PM

ESTJ. I can ignore most others, but this type doesn't seem to want to leave me alone.

Helen

13 Dec 2004, 06:02 PM

YourLocalCynic, where in LA might you be from, if you don't mind telling? It's nice to see a fellow Louisianian on the board.

--Helen
(from New Orleans)

Boneca

13 Dec 2004, 06:08 PM

I would say ESTJ ("I won't change my mind whatever you say"), ENTP ("I have a severe crush on myself") and ESFP ("It's boring to think") types annoy me a lot, but for some reason my best friends belong to these types. It all goes to show that you cannot judge anyone only on type, I guess.

But I have still to meet an ENTJ that I don't want to strangle after ten minutes. Whoever suggested that is the ideal partner for an INTP must have been on drugs.

keetah

13 Dec 2004, 06:11 PM

i'm so glad no one said "infj"

SheepDog

13 Dec 2004, 06:14 PM

There's an ENTJ in upper management where I work (he told us his type). Workaholic, needs to be the one with the answers, in spite of those lower than him in the org chart that are much, much closer to the problem. Problem solves, out loud, on conference calls.

Boneca

13 Dec 2004, 06:24 PM

i'm so glad no one said "infj"I suspect that if there were only more INFJ men in the world, fewer INTP women would be single.

And SheepDog, yeah, that's what I mean. If I have the solution to a problem, it must be wrong simply because the ENTJ didn't think of it first. And I can't stand the way they always try to "babysit" me. Poor little me, who isn't as smart and great as the ENTJ. *sniff*

synchronous

13 Dec 2004, 08:12 PM

But I have still to meet an ENTJ that I don't want to strangle after ten minutes. Whoever suggested that is the ideal partner for an INTP must have been on drugs.

Never a day passes that I don't feel such tender loving feelings for my ENTJ ex-husband. *sigh* I miss him so.

xavierd

13 Dec 2004, 09:26 PM

synchronous, I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not.

synchronous

13 Dec 2004, 10:13 PM

synchronous, I can't tell if that was sarcasm or not.

Never a day passes that I don't feel such tender loving feelings for my ENTJ ex-husband. *sigh* I miss him so.

Sackanaka

13 Dec 2004, 11:51 PM

Never a day passes that I don't feel such tender loving feelings for my ENTJ ex-husband. *sigh* I miss him so.
That deserves an L.O.L. :lol:

I have a friend whom I believe is an ENTJ, and we get along well superficially. When it comes to debating issues however, we are probably polar opposites. The best thing we could settle on was that "If it weren't for this diversity [of personality] we wouldn't have interesting conversations like this." Indeed, there is a lot to be learned from dealing with particular types of people.

(Perhaps someone should create a font that means [sarcasm]; it seems like it would be used quite often. then again, the tags do seem to do the highest justice)

YourLocalCynic

14 Dec 2004, 01:50 PM

It's interesting that that a lot of people are complaining about not being able to stand ENTPs, when my best friend of 6 years is one. But, I definitely do recognize the tendancy to need reassurance of her cleverness a good bit of the time, and ABSOLUTELY recognize the whole "I am very clever, and use people as objects to demonstrate my cleverness to" bit. But even with all that, she's still an NTP, and understands me more than anyone else I've known.

As for the ESFJs...I understand the yearning to strangle them entirely too well. My mother is one.

By the way, Helen, I'm from a little town next to Houma, about an hour south of New Orleans. :)

cjs55

14 Dec 2004, 04:41 PM

I've decided that my ENTP friend probably isn't an ENTP, but rather an ESFP who uses NT often in science, so has developed that well. He's far better at math/science than myself, but his personality otherwise is just too much SF to be ignored. I think its the SF part that really makes it hard to get that same sort of connection. Any connection I thought I had with him at any time has been faked on his part. He pretty much just tells you what he wants you to hear.

indie

14 Dec 2004, 04:53 PM

Being around ESTJs gives me that feeling you get when someone scratches their fingernails down a chalkboard. They (generally) are so set in their ways that they fail to see new possibilities, and they act extremely smug and superior.

Zero Angel

14 Dec 2004, 05:15 PM

Whats that personality type that always bums off people and takes 10 just to give back 1? The one that they think people actually owes them stuff when they are actually pretty useless people? I know at least one guy like this, and although my aunt told him to save some ... stuff ... for her in the morning, he smoked it up on her, saying 'who cares?' and tried to share it with me. I assume that he wanted someone to share the blame for his own selfishness.

It was funny that day when he tried to feed me a line of BS and I just didnt just ignore it, but gave him this look, like I was staring right through him. Ah, to see the look on his face. He tried to make a bunch of nice-ish gestures after that, but it was too late.

ESTP I think :: Those people piss me off.

Polystom

15 Dec 2004, 08:55 AM

ENTJs. ENTJs talk to make sounds.

My one's fucking hyperactive. All day. Every day. All the time. Never keeps anything to himself. I'll hear his vaguest thought loud and clear and probably twice in any given day. Inordinately fussy about the conduct of others in public situations; obfuscate to the last when his own personal hygeine, dress, behaviour, etc. is concerned.

And for all their sharing and domineering, they pretty much NEVER get a grasp of what's logistically involved in any given situation, anywhere, any place, any time.

MasterMerk

15 Dec 2004, 09:08 AM

Miss Anthropic

15 Dec 2004, 09:29 AM

Finally I don't get along well with anyone with a strong S in any circumstance. My N is so strong that I simply can't understand these people at all. We view the world so differently that it seems impossible to reconcile the two viewpoints.

YESSS!!! My annoyance with those with a strong S centers around their constant monitoring of people around them and the subsequent B.S. they put out in response to what they see and hear in order to fit in, or be important. I have come to suspect and despise those people who tell "tall tales" to be interesting or important, or those who fish around to find out what you don't know about something so they can make something up to sound like they know what they are talking about.

NGene

15 Dec 2004, 10:59 AM

ESTPs really piss me off. I don't feel I have anything in common with them, and the fact that I am able to have any discussions with them is due to them being extraverts.

One of my husband's friends is an ESTP, and he's fun to be with for a couple of days. He's got a weird sense of humor and a quick wit, so it's fun to talk to him, and he's good company for going out and drinking, but after he's stayed at our place for a couple of days, he really starts pissing me off. He also starts pissing my hubby off.

I know three ENTPs in real life (my hubby, my uncle, and an aqcuaintance I see every now and then) and I find their company extremely stimulating. We really are on the same wavelength. I do know what some of you mean about ENTPs having a crush on themselves and talking regardless of the audience's boredom, though, but my hubby is the only one I see often enough to get annoyed. Luckily he's into the MBTI, so he understands when I tell him I need to be alone.

Speaking of ESTPs and ENTPs, it seems the ESTPs have all the annoying traits an ENTP has, but none of the good ones.

evil kitten

15 Dec 2004, 05:26 PM

Just dumbass people who think they are better than everyone else.

cjs55

15 Dec 2004, 05:42 PM

Are people that know they are better than everyone else ok then? ; )

SheepDog

15 Dec 2004, 05:47 PM

Now that I think of it, I don't think I have any Artisan (SP) friends. I wonder if that means anything? ;)

Zero Angel

15 Dec 2004, 05:49 PM

Yeah, us INTs dont think we're better then everyone else, we KNOW. We're so great that we dont even have to think about how great we are. :lol:

Wait... damn!

heeroyuy

15 Dec 2004, 05:57 PM

ohnoaninfp

15 Dec 2004, 06:45 PM

I hate everyone!!!! Grr!!!!!!!! Just kidding. People who are mean to other people, people who stick their noses in my buisness, people who try to force their beliefs on me, and people who act like they are better than everyone else. I don't go buy type, because there are bad apples in every type.

MjrMarshmellows

15 Dec 2004, 07:24 PM

... so then everyone?

MjrMarshmellows

15 Dec 2004, 07:43 PM

ooh, I forgot:
ENTP's annoy the hell out of me.
All the ENTP's I know seem to be wanna-be intellectuals. They come back from school every single day with some new bull shit theory that someone from their school pulled out of their ass, subscribe to it completely, and talk about it for hours. Worse, they make the ass hole who came up with the stupid theory their new God. Anywho that irks the hell out of me.
ENTP's also tend to think they are the center of the world. They are SOO clever, and EVERYONE cares about their new bull shit theory's. They tend to say whats on their mind, (because EVERYONE cares) but because they cannot introvert at all, they end up hurting everyone. The less mature ones (all the ones I know) then to be horrible in relationships, but at the same time, the guy who all the girls want to go out with. (or vice versa) (and YES it IS a bitter spot)
But now that that I've heated my self up enough... lets turn to ISFJ's.

My mother is an ISFJ. (enough said)

ESFJ's are also terrible. I thought I had a really good relationship with one, untill I realized that our relationship was completely built up on misunderstandings. (plus she really didn't give a damn about me in the end.) She cared MUCH to much about her self.

ESTJ's are alright, but I tend to have many problems with them.
(my best friend is an ESTJ, She is wonderfull, but at the same time makes me wish I could up and die.)

ENFJ's and INFJ's on the otherhand....
They are the reason why I choose to live.

tragula

15 Dec 2004, 08:36 PM

Anyone who is not an NT is dubious....
After a recent friendship went bust with an ISFP I am very suspicious of them. They can be very devious.
Married an ESFJ and she is GREAT!
My son is ENTJ, and he pretty much demmands to run our household. (He's 2 yrs old ;-)

As Universal points out it is remarkable how little "telepathic" power other types display. This is interesting because I just realized that several people think I am an "idiot". I've been tackling them one by one, and they are astounded when confronted to learn that know exactly what they are thinking all the time. Hmm...

Of course other high Ne types are good at reading minds too, if not much better than INTP

giftedmadness@hotmail.com

28 Jan 2005, 06:27 AM

ESFJ's and ENTP's are the only ones that really "bother"me, per se. The others I just automatically discredit as irrelevant and idiotic. How typical. :-D

Can you explain why you didn't like the ESFJ and how you knew he/she was one?

mgb

28 Jan 2005, 06:39 AM

I really hate SJs, as a rule of thumb. I mean, I will give some of them a chance, but my core values are at odds with theirs and I don't think there can ever be a true meeting of the minds there.

I wonder if every type hates it's opposite or if it's just SJs vs NTs? For instance, what do NFs think of SPs? Do they find them too flighty and shallow? Hmm, CC, where are you?

Swift

28 Jan 2005, 12:03 PM

But what I don't like about ISTJ they are cold and this is the ordinary way to do it like instead of come with something original. And when it comes to " To do right " he puts it infront of friendship. This reminds me of my ISTJ friend.

Just like you said, he is very cold, detached, aloof and he will never initiate any contact with his friends. We were always the ones that asked him out to go someplace and do something.

I considered him my best friend for a long period of time, just because we could have great intellectual conversations and political and ethical debates. That was great fun (except the fact that ISTJ never change or adjust their opinion.)
Now I'm kinda disappointed by his unwillingnes to invest some time and effort in his friendships. We still get along if we meet, but this wouldn't be the case if I didn't accepted the way he was.

Another negative trait of his is putting abstract rules and principles in front of real people.
Three of my other friends happened to be gay. Now this ISTJ has his own non-politically correct opinion about being gay, gay marriage, etc... but instead of being a bit diplomatic about it, he just throws his opinion in their face, defending this action by saying he has freedom of speech. Of course, the gay buddy's don't like him anymore and the ISTJ doesn't understand. Great move man!

CreativeChaos

28 Jan 2005, 05:54 PM

Hi Helen! I'm from New Orleans, too! :hello:

31 Jan 2005, 09:19 PM

Finally I don't get along well with anyone with a strong S in any circumstance. My N is so strong that I simply can't understand these people at all. We view the world so differently that it seems impossible to reconcile the two viewpoints.

same here. my N is really strong and i just clash with many S people. somehow, those damn S's always seem to find their way into my life, though.

i also have issues with a lot of feelers and i seem to be attracted to thinkers as far as relationships go. the only problem with that is that i tend to meet guys that have a strong t and that coupled with my decently strong t leads to many relationships never getting off the ground. however strong F's irritate the crap out of me in arguments and with clingyness. there must be some balance out there! haha.

about the entp thing - my best friend is an entp. she's my favorite person to talk to, and when we get on one another's nerves, we don't talk much for a couple days and nobody takes offense. i think i get along with entp's best, to be honest.

Nighthawk

31 Jan 2005, 09:40 PM

ESTP is my least favorite type. Soul-less, blood-sucking vampires who will stomp all over people to push their tactical agenda through for what immediately benefits them. I worked with an endless progression of Porsche-driving, pretty-boy marketing people who promised the world to the clients, collected their fat, front-loaded commissions, and then left it to us to accomplish the impossible for peanuts while they cavorted on the golf course. I will do my best to avoid any ESTP who crosses my path. If I am force to work with one, I will resort to sabotage.

ESTJ is my second least favorite type. Sanctimonious, rule-driven bastards who think they are morally superior to everybody else. They crave power over people and will not hesitate to use it to further their moral or rule-driven agendas. They become so wrapped up in the process, that they completely lose sight of the goal.

I guess you could say that I have a problem with most ES people.

CreativeChaos

2 Feb 2005, 04:15 PM

Origianlly posted by MG:
I wonder if every type hates it's opposite or if it's just SJs vs NTs? For instance, what do NFs think of SPs? Do they find them too flighty and shallow? Hmm, CC, where are you?

Here I am MG!!! :hello:

Yeah, in Kiersy, Please Understand me II, he calls the types as diametrically opposed. SJs and NTs are diametrically opposed, and NFs and SPs are diametrically opposed.

SPs and NTs can get along because they have the same way of ... rat's I've forgotten, I'll have to look it up. At work now. Will edit later.

However, NFs and SJs get along because each of those types are "cooperative" types. NFs and SPs DON'T, because they have nothing in common, and have opposing values.

The hedonistic, let's just have fun, values of an SP bother me to no end. However I do like ISFPs, simply because they do have a lot in common. I have a good ISFP friend and a good ISFP cousin friend. Their philosophy of "just smile and you'll be happy" drives me nuts, though. Their thinking seems rather shallow. Same with other SP. It's ESPs that bother me the most. And I absolutely can't STAND ESTPs. But it is the ESPs that have this "let's drink, eat and be merry (and while were at it have orgys and lots of meaningless sex)" and I can't STAND that!

Yes, NFs and SPs typically do not get along. The only thing that ESPs are good for is making a party fun. Otherwise, they are shallow, hedonistic (and that's a BIG insult, coming from me) crass, and think about physical pleasure FAR to much!!! They drive me UP THE WALL!!!!!BLAHHHH!!! :angry:

See? MG? Hee! :)

Nighthawk

2 Feb 2005, 05:20 PM

SPs and NTs can get along because they have the same way of ... rat's I've forgotten, I'll have to look it up. At work now. Will edit later.
SPs and NTs are both utilitarian in tool usage. They tend to do "what works" rather than "what is right."

Nighthawk

2 Feb 2005, 05:24 PM

Yes, NFs and SPs typically do not get along. The only thing that ESPs are good for is making a party fun. Otherwise, they are shallow, hedonistic (and that's a BIG insult, coming from me) crass, and think about physical pleasure FAR to much!!! They drive me UP THE WALL!!!!!BLAHHHH!!! :angry:
I have an INFP friend who has run though a steady and catastrophic string of SP men. All the relationships end in disaster when she comes face-to-face with their shallow hedonism ... and she then retreats into her shell ... only to emerge with a new Artisan boyfriend a few months later ... to start the process all over again. She is attracted to their bad-boy image and enthusiasm for life, but when she tries to make deeper, abstract contact, they are like, "Huh? What are you talking about?" I've recommended to her, on occasion to find an NT or NF boyfriend ... but she has yet to take my advice.

Elro

2 Feb 2005, 06:38 PM

songbird36

2 Feb 2005, 06:40 PM

SPs and NTs are both utilitarian in tool usage. They tend to do "what works" rather than "what is right."

i.e they are both morally bankrupt?

oh joy...

Nighthawk

2 Feb 2005, 08:01 PM

i.e they are both morally bankrupt?

oh joy...Speaking only for myself, it can be a very fine line. Some things that "work" for me are morally questionable according to society. Being a pragmatist, I try to conform where possible ... especially if there is a jail sentence involved. :) I have the most problems doing things that "work" where there are rule-bound SJ's involved. In most cases, my rebellion is against business and institutional rules rather than against societal standards. Perhaps that is why I like the software business so much. I have yet to find an SJ who understands writing code, so I can write it as I see fit, without them applying cooperative rules to it.

CreativeChaos

2 Feb 2005, 11:00 PM

I have an INFP friend who has run though a steady and catastrophic string of SP men. All the relationships end in disaster when she comes face-to-face with their shallow hedonism ... and she then retreats into her shell ... only to emerge with a new Artisan boyfriend a few months later ... to start the process all over again. She is attracted to their bad-boy image and enthusiasm for life, but when she tries to make deeper, abstract contact, they are like, "Huh? What are you talking about?" I've recommended to her, on occasion to find an NT or NF boyfriend ... but she has yet to take my advice.

The two ISFP friends I have don't think deep, but I enjoy doing fun things with them and teasing and bantering "lightly" with them.

I had one ESFP boyfriend. I thought he was ENFP. Yack! Nope! I know guys tend to be into sex and all but, brother! Yeah! I couldn't get him to get into a discussion about ANYTHING! And his hedonistic values were GROSS! But SPs DO have sex appeal, I give them that. But that's ONLY because that's what they think about all the time. Bluuuaak!

I had an ISTP boyfriend for nine months. He was GREAT! He had the sex appeal, but he also had the "street smarts" to know what I wanted. So the way he handled it was by simply asking "what are you thinking?" He asked that a lot. And I LOVED it! So I would just carry on my monologue about the meaning of life and so on and he would sit and patiently listen. HEEE!! But he MOVED! :cry:

Other than that, SPs gross me out! Your girlfriend will wake up one of these days. Artisans are easy to get, too. I could walk out and find myself an SP boyfriend in two seconds if I wanted too. Maybe she has a fear of being alone or something. Or she's rebounding, and rebounding, and rebounding....

QrioCT

3 Feb 2005, 05:26 AM

xSFJs. ISFJs are worse by their boredom.
they are wrong, very wrong, and even after they are proven wrong they stubbornly hold on, and just has to erupt to every opposing suggestion.

lexiphanic

3 Feb 2005, 05:39 AM

Geoff

3 Feb 2005, 12:56 PM

xSFJs. ISFJs are worse by their boredom.
they are wrong, very wrong, and even after they are proven wrong they stubbornly hold on, and just has to erupt to every opposing suggestion.

Interesting, I dont find that myself. The ISFJ I am married to does not hold hugely strong opinions. She dislikes being corrected (I am an INTP, I dont always do it in a sensitive 'F' way ;)) but she doesnt do the above.

-Geoff

Hustler

3 Feb 2005, 01:16 PM

Am I the only person here who is utterly annoyed by NF types? All of the NF types.

Elro

3 Feb 2005, 01:56 PM

Am I the only person here who is utterly annoyed by NF types? All of the NF types.

Some of my best friends are known and suspected INFPs.. I agree sometimes NFs in general can get somewhat "out there", but I enjoy being around even the overdramatic ones, if only in small doses.

The type that most consistently gets on my nerves is ENTJ. The people who I know or consider as ENTJs are typically fun people overall. However, if they think they are right about something, they won't budge. This is not a problem when they are actually right, but if you ever know they are wrong, try convincing them. And try to stomach the incredibly smug expression on their faces in the meantime. This may extend to all xNTJs, but the INTJs I know are less obvious about the smugness.

YMMV... There are some INTPs, for example, that I can't stand, and others that I am around all the time.

CreativeChaos

3 Feb 2005, 04:44 PM

Some of my best friends are known and suspected INFPs.. I agree sometimes NFs in general can get somewhat "out there", but I enjoy being around even the overdramatic ones, if only in small doses.

Yeah! I have an INFJ friend who is "out there". And I run in circles where there are a lot of "New Age" type of people. Some INFPs I've met tend to get into "unusual" faiths. One I met was a Quaker, another is into aboriginal Native Indian stuff, another into some kind of Buddist Monk stuff. Most are "spiritual". I think I am odd as an INFP to be atheist. But I am atheist with a PASSION!!! And I HATE with a PURPLE PASSION the believe in Hell!

So yeah! We get really adament about certain things and can drive other people up the wall with our "passionate" way of dealing with things. And if we are REALLY passionate about our cause, we don't care what other people think, because the cause is ALL IMPORTANT. It's a life or death matter.

Crazy

3 Feb 2005, 06:20 PM

ESFJ are the most annoying to me. The one I know is always blaming all of her problems on everyone else, always has to talk about her problems, and has to say the same thing multiple times in multiple different ways. She also is prone to outbursts of anger. If the slightest thing upsets her, she will go on for half an hour running down a list of all of the things that you have ever done wrong. I didn't know about this behavior until after I married her of course.

QrioCT

4 Feb 2005, 02:27 AM

Interesting, I dont find that myself. The ISFJ I am married to does not hold hugely strong opinions. She dislikes being corrected (I am an INTP, I dont always do it in a sensitive 'F' way ;)) but she doesnt do the above.

-Geoff

yeah, it depends on *the* xSFJ. for example, generally enfps are friendly and approachable but some arent. but i guess it might be just personal experience that makes me think this about xSFJs.

Edmond Zedo

7 Feb 2005, 11:40 PM

ESTJ tops, followed by the rest of the SJs. Know any?

Falling Star

9 Feb 2005, 11:25 AM

CreativeChaos says:

The hedonistic, let's just have fun, values of an SP bother me to no end. However I do like ISFPs, simply because they do have a lot in common. I have a good ISFP friend and a good ISFP cousin friend. Their philosophy of "just smile and you'll be happy" drives me nuts, though. Their thinking seems rather shallow. Same with other SP. It's ESPs that bother me the most. And I absolutely can't STAND ESTPs. But it is the ESPs that have this "let's drink, eat and be merry (and while were at it have orgys and lots of meaningless sex)" and I can't STAND that!

LOL! What good is life if you don't live it up? You people pretend to act so anti-authoritarian and individualistic but then you basically bash us SPs for wanting to live life on our own terms and for not taking life seriously enough evidently. I think a lot of you NTs and NFs are just a bunch of fucking whiners.
;P

heeroyuy

9 Feb 2005, 12:04 PM

I understand and see your point of view, but think of it like this. We do live our lives up, we just choose to live it up in a way you can't ever truly understand, as most of us don't see why you'd choose to live your life like that (in a similar way, we can't understand why you'd want to live like you do :) ). Living within the transitory pleasures of the present would make my life so baseless I'd probably want to kill myself. I don't think it's bad that you do, but at the same time the reason so many of us are angry at SPs in general is that alot of them make fun of us CONSTANTLY for "wasting" our lives, even ones we are friends with. After so many people make so many comments, even when you leave them alone, you start to become bitter. That's my theory.

I would agree, damn near any SJ or SP generally. SPs I get along with though, as long as I'm not in a bad mood. When I'm in a bad mood I get nihilistic and the SPs start getting angry that I'm so depressed :)

Lee

9 Feb 2005, 12:15 PM

I am going to say INTP's because they start and participate in conversations like these.......oh hang on I just...Do'h.

Arioch

9 Feb 2005, 12:38 PM

I don't really know any type that especially bothers me. Some people say SJ's but one of my best friends is a SJ. You could say SP but I have a ISFP friend I like alot.

The secret is to get the best of the type as your friend.

Lee

9 Feb 2005, 12:44 PM

There are good and bad in all types.

CreativeChaos

9 Feb 2005, 05:24 PM

CreativeChaos says:

LOL! What good is life if you don't live it up? You people pretend to act so anti-authoritarian and individualistic but then you basically bash us SPs for wanting to live life on our own terms and for not taking life seriously enough evidently. I think a lot of you NTs and NFs are just a bunch of fucking whiners.
;P

Aaaahhhh!!!! An SP!! Actually writting on a type site!!! Gee! :blink:

I had an ISTP boyfriend, Mr. ISTP. What's up!?!? :p

I know ALL about you guys! So I'm not going to even respond seriously to your non-serious response. :p

YOU are just too hedonistic, that's all. You don't take ANYTHING seriously. That's the problem with YOU! ;P

Crazy

9 Feb 2005, 07:01 PM

The secret is to get the best of the type as your friend.
Now we must figure out who is the best in each type, then we will have a Thunderdome competition, Mad Max style, to see who gets to be thier friend.

CreativeChaos

9 Feb 2005, 07:47 PM

Now we must figure out who is the best in each type, then we will have a Thunderdome competition, Mad Max style, to see who gets to be thier friend.

Yes, so are YOU the best of your type, Crazy?

Crazy

9 Feb 2005, 08:02 PM

I'm gonna hafta go with no, CC, but I believe I deserve an honorable mention

CreativeChaos

9 Feb 2005, 08:45 PM

Heh! Well that's good enough for me Crazy. Consider yourself a friend. :wub:

And I nominate you as a contestant in the Thunderdome competition, under classification ; INTP. :smooch:

heeroyuy

9 Feb 2005, 10:00 PM

Wait...so does Arioch have to go in and fight against someone for his own friendship? What if I have more than one personality, can I go in the thunderdome and fight myself. Methinks this concept needs refinement :)

Crazy

9 Feb 2005, 10:47 PM

Heh! Well that's good enough for me Crazy. Consider yourself a friend. :wub:

And I nominate you as a contestant in the Thunderdome competition, under classification ; INTP. :smooch:

Thanks CC. I hope my Marine training pays off.

I'll consider you as one of the top 10% INFP's in the world. Maybe higher if you got some REALLY good Mardi Gras pics :devil:

CreativeChaos

9 Feb 2005, 10:54 PM

CreativeChaos

9 Feb 2005, 10:56 PM

Thanks CC. I hope my Marine training pays off.

I'll consider you as one of the top 10% INFP's in the world. Maybe higher if you got some REALLY good Mardi Gras pics :devil:

Okay look. It's like this. If I put up some REALLY good Mardi Gras pics, then I want to be in the top 5%. :rant:

jk

Crazy

9 Feb 2005, 11:03 PM

Rules?

I just thought of an idea, I didn't expect to have to follow through!

Um, Two men enter, one man leaves.

That is all you need to know.

Crazy

9 Feb 2005, 11:04 PM

Oh, and by "men" and "man" I mean human, not gender specific.

misutii

10 Feb 2005, 03:49 AM

actually in old english man and men were not gender specific. Wereman and weremen was used to distinguish males and woman and women for females. Weremen was later, however, shortened to men and hence the modern definition (hence werewolf = manwolf)

token informative and useless info for the day provided by your local intp historian (me)

Crazy

10 Feb 2005, 03:13 PM

Nighthawk

10 Feb 2005, 05:44 PM

LOL! What good is life if you don't live it up? You people pretend to act so anti-authoritarian and individualistic but then you basically bash us SPs for wanting to live life on our own terms and for not taking life seriously enough evidently. I think a lot of you NTs and NFs are just a bunch of fucking whiners.
;PYes, it IS quite annoying when people bash you for the way you naturally are. Now you have a taste of what NT's and NF's live with on a daily basis.

glassmoon

10 Feb 2005, 06:38 PM

In my circle of close friends I definitely have alot of trouble with 2 types in particular.

ISTJ "I do everything right" : I can't understand him, I can't ever convince him of everything, and anything I find interesting he finds a waste of time. I've known him since second grade, and we really have nothing to talk about. If we are in a 1 on 1 situation its very akward.I had a close ISTJ friend at school. We had the same problems you described...

ENTP "I can come up with a solution for anything" : Its more like ENTP - "I am very clever, and use people as objects to demonstrate my cleverness to". He won't shut up about totally boring information, even after I've told him its boring. He constantly shows off and needs attention. He doesn't care if you are bored or uninterested, he only cares that you tell him he is great at piano or physics or whatever he is doing. He uses human beings to make him feel special. I really hate that.
...Hey, I'm an ENTP (not certain), and I think some people hate me for the reasons you mentioned... Is ENTP the most hated type (because of their weak eF)?

cjs55

10 Feb 2005, 06:42 PM

glassmoon

10 Feb 2005, 06:54 PM

First, I'm not even certain that friend was an ENTP. He very likely was an ESFP with a developed NT for science and math. Second, my issues with him are not necessarily related to his type. But if you do the things that my ESFP/ENTP friend does, then yes, some people will generally dislike it quite a bit.I read somewhere that people generally tend to hate ENTP's. It might be related to their weak eF...

I would say ESTJ ("I won't change my mind whatever you say"), ENTP ("I have a severe crush on myself") and ESFP ("It's boring to think") types annoy me a lot, but for some reason my best friends belong to these types. It all goes to show that you cannot judge anyone only on type, I guess.
...Interesting. The people I like most hang out with are all of different types (usually S's) maybe because we stimulate and interest each other more than same type with similar way of thinking. Of course that for studying or working on problems the similar types are better match.

Yeah, us INTs dont think we're better then everyone else, we KNOW. We're so great that we dont even have to think about how great we are. :lol:

Wait... damn!That was an under the belt punch!

glassmoon

10 Feb 2005, 07:28 PM

A certain ENTP is getting close to having the shit choked out of him. He is usually on my side, makes insane illogical arguments, contradicts himself and what he said in the last sentence, and makes _no_ sense! if he just had bogus ideas I think are bull, fine, fine, BUT HE CONTRADICTS HIMSELF. Normally I can take it with a smile at his ignorance and go on with life, but yesterday I went off and yelled at him. Twice. Then he shutup. He's my friend, and he has ADHD as well, which doesn't help, and he craves attention. Argggggh.

Ah, well, today his antics are once again funny, as long as he doesn't distort a logical and nice debate with pointless inane "oh yea, well what if the word 'blue' meant 'moo' instead of 'blue' but it means 'blue' so it must be 'blue' but it might be 'moo' after all, 'moo' isn't 'blue' but it could be, ya know?" stuff while I talk about physics and philosophical ideas. The only person I know who can explain why "yellow" isn't "green" for several hours.

ENTPs are stimulating enough for the first while you know 'em, but be around them for extended periods...argggggh.

So ENTPs :)
The ENTP personlaity type has all the diagnostic criteria of ADHD. Are you sure you'r not confusing ADHD condition with personality type? And if he has ADHD why are you describing it as an ENTP behaviour...
As the ENTP profile says ENTP's might relay heavily on their eN function without use of their logical iT function (the ENTP pitfall?). By the way, according to Socionics, ENTp's hidden agenda is to be loved, which can explain their need for constant affirmation and attention...

...As Universal points out it is remarkable how little "telepathic" power other types display. This is interesting because I just realized that several people think I am an "idiot". I've been tackling them one by one, and they are astounded when confronted to learn that know exactly what they are thinking all the time. Hmm...

Of course other high Ne types are good at reading minds too, if not much better than INTPYou're using your INTP powers for bad purposes...

Little Miss Krahka

10 Feb 2005, 08:57 PM

Now we must figure out who is the best in each type, then we will have a Thunderdome competition, Mad Max style, to see who gets to be thier friend.
You know what would be so hilarious, yet so utterly wrong? If we got a hundred SPs and a hundred NFs and made them all fight to the death. It'd be sad, because the SPs would be all too eager to get smackin', and the NFs would recognize the death match as the rediculous, disturbing and utterly awful event that it is. Which certainly doesn't help them, since there are a bunch of SPs coming in and ripping them to pieces. Yay for carnage!

I judge on an entirely individual basis. I have a few groups of people that get on my nerves (SJs, women, Christian fundamentalists, liberals, people who don't know squat about history, politicians, SJ politicians, women politicians, Christian fundamentalist politicians, liberal politicians, and politicians who don't know squat about history), but that's more of an observation than a broad sweeping judgement.

ENTPs are awesome when I don't hate them. They're a type that's easy to love, and easy to hate, and easy to love and hate at the same time. My brother is an ENTP, and though I enjoy our conversations (he and I share quite a few interests), he gets on my nerves quite a bit. Mostly because he won't shut up. Argh. I love him when I don't hate him. He's never the one hating me, since he's got like, five different emotions, and hate's not one of them. (I have three, but they aren't different versions of the same thing.) But they aren't the type that annoy me the most. No sirrie.
That's pretty much my opinion on NTs in general. They're awesome when I don't hate them. Usually I like them more than I hate them, but sometimes they bug me.

The types that annoy the most are ESTJs, and ISFJs. SJs in general tend to aggrivate my murderous tendencies, but ISFJs and ESTJs are the best at making me angry.
ISTJs are pretty much the only SJs that I can stand, because I grudgingly accept that they serve some useful purpose other than nagging and being irrational. ESFJs are annoying, but they can be amusing, and they have their own form of strange twisted logic that you can sorta understand if you make an effort. (As opposed to the other ones, who are litterally impossible to figure out.) And you can't deny that ESFJs are loads of fun to make fun of. Yay for immature INTPs with weak Is!
But there is something about the ISFJ and the ESTJ that make me want to kill people. Their shallowness, moronic stubbornness, lack of honesty, and general stupidity make me want to go werepuppy. Try as I might, I cannot get into their minds.

And, of course, there are people in general, no matter their type. They annoy the living heck out of me. Yep.

CreativeChaos

10 Feb 2005, 09:16 PM

The ENTP personlaity type has all the diagnostic criteria of ADHD. Are you sure you'r not confusing ADHD condition with personality type?

You're using your INTP powers for bad purposes...

Yeayyyy!!! An ENTP!!!! I LOVE ENTP's!!! :wub: But just on the web. I've had tremendous problems with my ENTP boss. Yeah, his Fe was the pits!! And he seems to have ADHD, but I know it's just that Ne in operation. But I am finally on good terms with him (I hope). What is your experience with INFPs?

CreativeChaos

10 Feb 2005, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by Little Miss:

You know what would be so hilarious, yet so utterly wrong? If we got a hundred SPs and a hundred NFs and made them all fight to the death. It'd be sad, because the SPs would be all too eager to get smackin', and the NFs would recognize the death match as the rediculous, disturbing and utterly awful event that it is. Which certainly doesn't help them, since there are a bunch of SPs coming in and ripping them to pieces. Yay for carnage!

You know what would be hilarious? Is when the SPs start hitting on the NFs in a total different manner. Because SEX and FUN is all they want not war. And LOVE is all NFs want not war. So the SPs start turning on all of the NFs and instead of carnage you get a GRAND ORGY!!!!!

YEAAAAAYYYYYY!!! ORGIESSSSSSS!!!!! :smooch:

Then I could look up and see all you pathetic INTPs SOOOOO Jealous becuase YOU cant get in the orgie with us. HAAAAAA!!!!! :devil:

THAT WOULD BE HILARIOUS!!!!!! :devil:

:rofl:

:cheers:

melancholeric

10 Feb 2005, 09:30 PM

You know what would be so hilarious, yet so utterly wrong? If we got a hundred SPs and a hundred NFs and made them all fight to the death. It'd be sad, because the SPs would be all too eager to get smackin', and the NFs would recognize the death match as the rediculous, disturbing and utterly awful event that it is. Which certainly doesn't help them, since there are a bunch of SPs coming in and ripping them to pieces. Yay for carnage!

The only thing "wrong" in that scenario is that there's only a hundred instead of, say, 500. Other than that, I want a front row seat.

And, people bother me. All types. All people. Everyone. Including you.

I have to get a dog...

Geoff

10 Feb 2005, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by Little Miss:

You know what would be hilarious? Is when the SPs start hitting on the NFs in a total different manner. Because SEX and FUN is all they want not war. And LOVE is all NFs want not war. So the SPs start turning on all of the NFs and instead of carnage you get a GRAND ORGY!!!!!

YEAAAAAYYYYYY!!! ORGIESSSSSSS!!!!! :smooch:

Then I could look up and see all you pathetic INTPs SOOOOO Jealous becuase YOU cant get in the orgie with us. HAAAAAA!!!!! :devil:

THAT WOULD BE HILARIOUS!!!!!! :devil:

:rofl:

:cheers:

Have you been on the booze again?

-Geoff

glassmoon

10 Feb 2005, 11:37 PM

Yeayyyy!!! An ENTP!!!! I LOVE ENTP's!!! :wub: But just on the web. I've had tremendous problems with my ENTP boss. Yeah, his Fe was the pits!! And he seems to have ADHD, but I know it's just that Ne in operation. But I am finally on good terms with him (I hope).It might be the eF as well...

What is your experience with INFPs?I'm still new in MBTI, so I haven't got to identify many people yet. It's easy though to distinguish the N/S. I'm surrounded mostly by N's, and most the people I hang out with are INxx's and one ISTJ and ESFJ.

11 Feb 2005, 01:42 AM

glassmoon - off topic, but how do you get the percentages for which type profiles you fit?

CreativeChaos

11 Feb 2005, 03:14 AM

Have you been on the booze again?

-Geoff

Haa! I'm drunk on life Geoff! :)

misutii

11 Feb 2005, 08:48 PM

Haa! I'm drunk on life Geoff! :)

i prefer sambuca

12 Feb 2005, 01:12 AM

in regards to the esfp's and the esfj's... i really don't mind them so much. i have a few friends who test into these categories and i find they are the friends that you just have to take with a grain of salt. however, i do find that they are some of my more thoughtful friends. leave it to them to ask me about a guy i've been dating or how someone in my family is doing. i appreciate that.

Heather Harrison

13 Feb 2005, 03:42 PM

Overbearing ESTJs and ENTJs in leadership roles bother me the most of all, although ENTJs can be interesting to talk to if they aren't in charge. ISTJs can annoy me because they are too practical and organized, but they aren't as overbearing. Generally, I get along better with N types, and especially IN types. F types don't bother me so much, but they can be hard to reason with. However, NF (especially NFP) types are usually very interesting to talk to. (Generally, I need to know people fairly well before I can read them, so I don't have a lot of data here to go on.) But I am attuned to ESTJs and ENTJs because these types can be a threat to me, especially if they are in charge of something I am involved with. ESTJs, however, can be manipulated (and can make very useful minions), but ENTJs with their well-developed logic and intuition can often see through attempts at manipulation. I respect ENTJs but I am apprehensive around them.

Heather Harrison

Eileen

13 Feb 2005, 03:59 PM

I have a good friend who is an ENTJ, I think--though she could be INTJ... Anyway, she is a firecracker and she kicks a lot of ass. She doesn't fuck around at all.

raincrow007

13 Feb 2005, 04:22 PM

My mother is ENTJ, and you're right Eileen, firecracker is the word for her. I find it very straining to interact with her though. She immediately wants to give orders [I know there's the parent/child dynamic here as well as type dynamics] and I automatically resist. I agree with Heather; I respect ENTJs, but they make me nervous.

Eileen

13 Feb 2005, 04:27 PM

I don't think I'm terribly bothered by any particular type, except the type of person who falls into the "arrogant asshole" category. However, I do have a hard time communicating with ESTPs.

Also, while I LOVE INFPs, they can also drive me bonkers. But it's in that way that people you love drive you bonkers, and not in a hateful way at all. INFPs and INFJs have some really fundamental differences, and we can seem very similar and BE very similar, but those differences can cause conflicts that take one by surprise. Last year, I lived with my INFJ best friend, an ENFJ, and an INFP. It was a high stress time for me and the INFP (I was student teaching and she was doing a whole lot of theatre stuff, which takes up so much time), and I'd get really exasperated with her because of our differences in our communication styles (in particular). I was sort of impatient with the "informing" communication, because my communication style is directive--more to the point and efficient, but also more bossy and seemingly judgmental. I don't know if she got exasperated with me... I think that she probably did, because I was a pretty difficult person to get along with at that time.

songbird36

13 Feb 2005, 08:04 PM

I've had most problems with ISTJs. The last boyfriend was one, and communication was *very* bad.

glassmoon

13 Feb 2005, 08:38 PM

I've had most problems with ISTJs. The last boyfriend was one, and communication was *very* bad.
Lol, you might wanna read this: http://www.personalitypage.com/ISTJ_rel.html

Geoff

13 Feb 2005, 09:15 PM

I've had most problems with ISTJs. The last boyfriend was one, and communication was *very* bad.

I presume you have noticed, as a lawyer, that your workplace will be full of them!

-Geoff

songbird36

13 Feb 2005, 10:28 PM

I presume you have noticed, as a lawyer, that your workplace will be full of them!

-Geoff

No it's interesting actually, I asked about peoples' types in a legal team meeting the other day.

Four of the others were ENTJ or INTJ (out of a team of 8). The others didn't know their type, so could possibly be NTs as well.

I think NTs make better lawyers than STs. They are better at identifying relevant legal issues quickly, and giving well rounded strategic advice.

Geoff

13 Feb 2005, 10:31 PM

I guess it is just me then, having based myself in a firm of accountants, who is surrounded by ISTJs.

I suppose it is the logical exactitude required to work with people's money etc.

Edit : http://www.personalitypage.com/ISTJ_car.html

Suggests ISTJ are borne to be lawyers, at least in that larger corporate environment where there tendency to work hard, follow the rules and rely on their vast store of factual knowledge.

The other career paths are all similar, too.

But then ENTJ also says lawyer, as does INTJ and INTP.

Hehe. Why on earth would we need so many ;)

-Geoff

songbird36

13 Feb 2005, 11:31 PM

cjs55

14 Feb 2005, 12:03 AM

If I had to choose one type that I would never come into close contact with, it would be ISTJ.

songbird36

14 Feb 2005, 12:35 AM

If I had to choose one type that I would never come into close contact with, it would be ISTJ.

I'm with you there CJ...

CreativeChaos

14 Feb 2005, 04:58 AM

I'm with you there CJ...

Heh1 :) I was married to one for 18 years.

MasterMerk

14 Feb 2005, 05:05 AM

Must've been fun. Eh, C?

songbird36

14 Feb 2005, 05:09 AM

Heh1 :) I was married to one for 18 years.

You *poor* thing.

Did you need professional intervention afterwards to restore your sanity?

cjs55

14 Feb 2005, 05:41 AM

I can only imagine...

I've had a ISTJ friend in continuous contact with me since about 2nd grade, and that can be pretty fucking bad at times.

songbird36

14 Feb 2005, 05:43 AM

I can only imagine...

I've had a ISTJ friend in continuous contact with me since about 2nd grade, and that can be pretty fucking bad at times.

Does he seek advice from you on how to sharpen his pencils?

cjs55

14 Feb 2005, 05:46 AM

He uses pens, because he doesn't make mistakes.

songbird36

14 Feb 2005, 05:49 AM

He uses pens, because he doesn't make mistakes.

Ah but of course..

does he iron his underwear as well?

cjs55

14 Feb 2005, 05:50 AM

Thank God (rofl!) I don't know him that well.

Geoff

14 Feb 2005, 12:32 PM

Ah but of course..

does he iron his underwear as well?

Heh, you should see some of the ISTJ I know through work. One or two of them have to open the coffin lid before lurching around (providing they have a memo confirming that it is exactly the right thing to do).

The comment about using pens because they never make mistakes is *so* accurate. By the way, ISTJ are quite useful in organising - which isnt a bad thing when you are trying to get a mix where everything gets done. They are good 'worker ants' - they work hard and well, in fact too long in terms of hours. It seems to bother them when we see something in 10 minutes that it takes them 10 hours to prove to themselves, but that isnt my fault ;).

Oh, and one or two (well a couple) of the many ISTJ's I work with are genuinely pleasant people who are good to work with. It isnt generally the case, however!

-Geoff

Nighthawk

14 Feb 2005, 06:01 PM

By the way, ISTJ are quite useful in organising - which isnt a bad thing when you are trying to get a mix where everything gets done. They are good 'worker ants' - they work hard and well, in fact too long in terms of hours. What always amazes me is the ISTJ's ability to do the same thing over and over and over again. They actually seem to enjoy repetitive tasks ... something that drives me totally nuts. Then they expect everybody else to happily repeat their actions day after day. I think the ISTJs would be overjoyed if nothing ever changed.

CreativeChaos

14 Feb 2005, 06:07 PM

You *poor* thing.

Did you need professional intervention afterwards to restore your sanity?

Haa! Yeah! Actually I did! But after repeating to myself "It's NOT my fault, It's NOT my fault" about 1000 times, I started to believe it. (It was ALWAYS my fault, you see. He was right, I was wrong. ;) )

Thermo

14 Feb 2005, 07:26 PM

Misty_Kye:
"ESFJ or anyone else with the attitude of "Everyone likes me and wants to be like me"

I once worked for a guy with this attitude. Down side: Worst two years of my life. Up side: I learned that while there are things in this world worth dying for there is nothing in this world worth killing yourself forâ€¦ especially not this guy."

YourLocalCynic:
"ESFJ's and ENTP's are the only ones that really "bother"me, per se."

"As for the ESFJs...I understand the yearning to strangle them entirely too well. My mother is one."

biff_loman:
"ESFJs. . .
Piss.
Me.
Off.

I have yet to interact with a person who I suspected to be an ESFJ without encountering conflict within minutes. As soon as I begin to ascertain that a person might be an ESFJ, I detach from the conversation or at least input as little as possible.

I inevitably say something to offend them greatly, or they say something so vapid or illogical that I cannot help but reply: "That was the most ignorant thing I have ever heard" and then begin explaining why. I cannot stand to hear them prattle on about nonsense."

Crazy5711:
"ESFJ are the most annoying to me. The one I know is always blaming all of her problems on everyone else, always has to talk about her problems, and has to say the same thing multiple times in multiple different ways. She also is prone to outbursts of anger. If the slightest thing upsets her, she will go on for half an hour running down a list of all of the things that you have ever done wrong. I didn't know about this behavior until after I married her of course."

mgbradsh:
"ESFJ because I can't stand that type of lifestyle. I just find it incredibly artificial."

MjrMarshmellows:
"ESFJ's are also terrible. I thought I had a really good relationship with one, untill I realized that our relationship was completely built up on misunderstandings. (plus she really didn't give a damn about me in the end.) She cared MUCH to much about her self."

tragula:
"Married an ESFJ and she is GREAT!"

Its very interesting that INTPs either love or vehemently hate ESFJs. Two of us married them and are very happy and at least six people hate them. This would be an interesting study. tragula, we should compare notes. ;)

I am a INTP happily married to a ESFJ. Although we are opposites, we don't argue much. She occassionally complains that I spend to much time on the computer and zone out. I wish she wouldn't take things I say so personally.

Despite these little issues, we complement each other quite well. My wife handles almost all our social interaction and keeps me from crawling under a rock. She is also very supportive and sensitive to my somewhat retarded social skills. I come up with all the logical plans and make financial and legal decisions. I also deal with people who piss her off.

Roger

17 Feb 2005, 07:54 PM

ESTJ 's

I can't get along with them , They talk too much and just give facts.. the same ones over and over ... or just give orders and no reasons...

ISFJ ..they also annoy me. They say yes they agree with you and then they just
say the total opposite in the next sentance... or they just believe in shit and refuse to open their minds. They have no traits that I would like... except maybe tidyness.

ENTPs : I like them.. why would any INTP not like them.. They are so close to us.

ENTJ ( my eldest borther) : I respect them but they want to be in charge the whole time...

problem_child

21 Mar 2005, 03:48 AM

ESFJ "Everyone likes me and wants to be like me"

One of my best friends is an ESFJ, this is too true. How we came to be best friends for 6 years is beyond me, but I can only take her in 2-day long doses, and her self-importance gets to me.

The most annoying thing is this "I'm a Montrealer/only child therefore I am special and everyone must follow my plans". I'm an only child too, she gives us a bad name lol.
But she has a great quirky sense of humour that reminds me more of an NF. And she will be genuinely concerned with your problems as long as she's over her own problems (well you can't expect much more from an extrovert I guess, haha)

Hamro

21 Mar 2005, 06:41 AM

i think i could get along with any type but when looking at the descriptions at Joe Butt id choose

ESFJ "Look! Im a attention whore, did you hear?! an ATTENTION whore"

i like Fs alot but they bug me too for a bit, getting emotional about people they dont know

April

21 Mar 2005, 06:42 AM

when people got killed in the tsunami, my mother cried

How is that a bad thing?

Hamro

21 Mar 2005, 06:44 AM

How is that a bad thing?

i changed it, it sounded wrong, its not a bad thing, just i couldnt understand the reaction, sure i thought it was sad that many lifes was lost but i felt no real emotion, just faking what i was supposed to feel

glassmoon

21 Mar 2005, 11:44 AM

...
Its very interesting that INTPs either love or vehemently hate ESFJs. Two of us married them and are very happy and at least six people hate them. This would be an interesting study. tragula, we should compare notes. ;)
...
Well ESFJ's and INTP's have the same functions (in the opposite order) and according to Socionics ESFj and INTj is a relation of Duality.
Maybe this explains it (well, the being loved part of it).

melancholeric

21 Mar 2005, 12:00 PM

The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference.

That said, keep the ESFJs away from me. If for nothing else but their own safety.

It's quite difficult to be indifferent about them, as they usually do everything possible to draw attention. That's why ISFJs are better; they are introverts and thus easier to ignore.

Well not "better", but...

Architectonic

21 Mar 2005, 12:19 PM

but I can only take her in 2-day long doses, and her self-importance gets to me.

You know, being able to stand and ESFJ for 2 days is actually a pretty good effort....

MySavior

22 Mar 2005, 01:10 AM

Well ESFJ's and INTP's have the same functions (in the opposite order) and according to Socionics ESFj and INTj is a relation of Duality.
Maybe this explains it (well, the being loved part of it).
According to Socionics, the MBTI INTP's dual is either ESFj or ESFp. It depends on how you test according to their sorter. I'm an MBTI INTP, and my dual according to Socionics is ESFp. Which does make sense. :)

PS: I do know that the introvert's j/p is reversed by socionics; what I said above still applies.

minger223

22 Mar 2005, 01:50 AM

how do you all have so much experience with all 16 types to even answer this question?

Winterpark

22 Mar 2005, 01:55 AM

The type of people I can't stand is the one with a constant smile on their face and a bossy attitude. Their way of expretion looks very artificial to me. When they speak, it looks as if it's not coming directly from them. I am not shure if that's the ENFJ or the ESFJ ?? Or the ENTJ maybe ??

I seem to have a slight communication problem with xNFJs. They seem to take everything that I say the wrong way. I also get overwhelmed by them sometimes, cause they want to be in charge non-stop and I don't want to be controlled. They also 'assume' a lot and are mostly wrong. I respect their seriousness about relationships and the will to help people. It would have been much better if they understood my jokes :) .

Winterpark

22 Mar 2005, 02:05 AM

how do you all have so much experience with all 16 types to even answer this question?

I 'll speak for myself.
I don't, I am just expressing a thought.
Otherwise I should question myself if I should post anything on this forum.

minger223

22 Mar 2005, 02:14 AM

Otherwise I should question myself if I should post anything on this forum.

No, you should question yourself AFTER you post anything on this forum. Speak first, then question. That is the ENTP way. :)

Sean

minger223

22 Mar 2005, 02:22 AM

The ones I can't stand are those who have a constant smile on their face and are simultaneously fake as all get-out. I know someone who always smiles and asks me the same eaxct freaking damn "how are you doing?" question only to saddle me with yet another dull small talk conversation that slows my day down by 1 minute. (Would this be an ESFJ?)

Ok, now I can definitely speak on my experience with ENFJs. For some reason I come across them repeatedly in my life. (I have not met any INFJs that I know of), and my experience has been similar on the point that they always take everything I say the wrong way. Not all the ENFJs I have met are bossy though, I think I try to overwhelm them with my irreverence such that they know not to boss me around.

"They also 'assume' a lot and are mostly wrong."

--- OMG YES YES YES!!!!!!!! Ugh, do NOT even get me started on this. What is worse, is that they make these assumptions on their own based on virtually no evidence, come to a conclusion, then act on the basis of that conclusion, without even verifying any of their assumptions. And the assumptions are always based on some twisted self-righteous black-and-white social ordering worldview that they got from some fairy tale. It's worse when they make assumptions about YOU, in which case they are ALWAYS wrong. You'd think that with such a powerful Ni it'd actually be correct now and then. :rant:

CreativeChaos

22 Mar 2005, 02:26 AM

how do you all have so much experience with all 16 types to even answer this question?

I have known type for a 15 years minger. I have met all but the following type ENFJ.

I tend to not get along with ESPs the most. SPs are diametrically opposed to NFs. I get along really well with ISFPs though.

minger223

22 Mar 2005, 02:29 AM

I have known type for a 15 years minger. I have met all but the following type ENFJ.

I'd be happy to send all the ones in my life your way. :whistle:

Winterpark

22 Mar 2005, 02:41 AM

No, you should question yourself AFTER you post anything on this forum. Speak first, then question. That is the ENTP way. :)

Sean

I know you said that on purpose :angry: , you mother fucking, always ready for an argument, ENTP.

Niflheimian

22 Mar 2005, 02:41 AM

I tend to not get along with ESPs the most. SPs are diametrically opposed to NFs. I get along really well with ISFPs though.

Don't even get me started. I hate almost every SP I come into contact with, especially the males. Perhaps it's just the STP type, but I find each one pusillanimous; is it just me or are they all satyromaniacs? I actually like some ISFPs, however; I have a close friend who is a female ISFP, and we actually have a great deal in common (though she's occasionally too bovine for my taste).
In most cases, I prefer SJs over SPs.

CreativeChaos

22 Mar 2005, 02:49 AM

Don't even get me started. I hate almost every SP I come into contact with, especially the males. Perhaps it's just the STP type, but I find each one pusillanimous; is it just me or are they all satyromaniacs? I actually like some ISFPs, however; I have a close friend who is a female ISFP, and we actually have a great deal in common (though she's occasionally too bovine for my taste).
In most cases, I prefer SJs over SPs.

Uhh... what is your type Niflheimian. Are you NF?

MySavior

22 Mar 2005, 02:52 AM

I know you said that on purpose :angry: , you mother fucking, always ready for an argument, ENTP.
AHAHAHA.

Niflheimian

22 Mar 2005, 02:55 AM

Uhh... what is your type Niflheimian. Are you NF?

INTJ. Why do you propose I'm an NF (though I'm not rejecting the possibility)?
Because I think most SPs are brainless idiots? Sometimes I actually feel like 'getting physical' with them.
Let me demonstrate:
:laser:

MySavior

22 Mar 2005, 02:59 AM

SJs sit not well with me. Its funny though, I would take most SPs over NFs.

ESFP (some)
ENFJ
INFJ

Are my top 3 favorite types.

meshou

7 May 2005, 07:15 PM

Usually Js, but it helps if they're intuitives and introverts. ESxJs tend to set my teeth on edge.

Introverted SPs are OK, usually get along with the extroverts, although they can bug me.

ENFJs sometimes bother me.

Introverted SJs don't bug me as much as the extroverts, but do bug me in general.

Black-Master

7 May 2005, 07:41 PM

ISTJs - They act and talk like idiots and not noticing it at all! (males)
ESFPs - All of them are just soooooooo stupid (specially girls)
ESFJ - All they care about is their look and fucking.

cjs55

8 May 2005, 12:10 AM

ESFJ - All they care about is their look and fucking.

This still sounds like ESFP to me.

Wilde Mutton

8 May 2005, 12:16 AM

Let us examine the logical grounds for dislike of type. Analyzing a typical reply on this thread, we could perceive the following elements:

- Someone has just had a bad experience of an archetypal, one-dimensioned person, easily classified into a type/known to be of a type because of results from an MBTI test
- Someone has always had bad experiences of archetypal, one-dimensioned people, easily classified into (types/ a type) /known to be of (types/a type) because of results from an MBTI test
- Someone hates everyone equally
- Someone loves everyone equally
- Someone believes in equal distribution of odious qualities and lovable qualities

Beliefs whose premises need to be examined carefully to see whether they are valid or not...

In most cases such evaluation of motives has been ignored in communication. The author, I trust, will have good grounds. The reasons that are written down can´t possibly correspond all of the reasons; the reasons written and I´m talking about the first two attitudes) are:

- People are cast into types in a trustworthy fashion. Types reflect real qualities. If an individual has been tested for a type then an individual will possess the qualities of the type, or rather, all of the representatives of a type are similar when it comes to certain fundamental characteristics such as basic values.
- If I meet a person whose conduct I do not care for and which I can see is constructed of their basic attitudes, then because those basic attitudes are well described by the category of a type I can deduce those qualities to be representative of all the individuals of that type (unless the individual [or individuals] I am now examining as a specimen of a type is in fact an aberrant individual, ill or otherwise unusual) and the qualities which I perceive as nuisances to be representative of the qualities of other individuals of this type. Therefore I am entitled to bear a grudge against a type.

Are the aforementioned premises justified?
- Are people cast into types in a trustworthy fashion? What can be considered as a "trustworthy" description?
- Do types reflect actual qualities? If basic characteristics are displayed by types do the characteristics rigidly determine individual behaviour in any given situation? Is a statistical, inducted view valid?
- Does one disagree with others or with one´s self...?

jyakulis

8 May 2005, 12:17 AM

SJs sit not well with me. Its funny though, I would take most SPs over NFs.

ESFP (some)
ENFJ
INFJ

Are my top 3 favorite types.

agreed! I wouldn't touch an INFP with a 10 foot pole. BUT maybe I just have a bad impression from this site. :whistle:

Black-Master

8 May 2005, 01:09 AM

Wilde Mutton

8 May 2005, 01:29 AM

I know only 4 ISTJ`s and they are all idiots! I am not the only one who consider those 4 ISTJ`s that I know idiots. And those who do are differant types. So what I am saying is all ISTJ`s are idiots. Am I wrong or what?

I am saying that it is possible, what with idiocy being a quality that particularly stands out, that it is more often encountered and/or counted as a type flaw. It is a distinct possibility that if types prescribe qualities they might prescribe inter-type relationships, so that INTPS and the unspecified "other types" and the "idiotic" type in question do not get along and see in each other but negative characteristics. It is possible to know 400 representatives of a type and still get a poor view. Statistically speaking, 4 or even 400 is a very small figure to make generalizations on. Logically speaking, it is also possible that, even if probability were on your side, statistics do not correlate with reality. Can you perchance come up with, say, an environmental factor that these four unpleasant people shared that made them "idiotic"? It is a possibility. As for popular opinion...the opinion of the majority is not in itself a solid indicator of validity for a statement of an already subjective nature. Of the soundness of your argument I do not know if I can know if I know at all. The fact still remains that the premises on which your argument is based upon lie on the same foundations as I´ve dealt with before, and I would advice you to seek councel of the soundess of your argument by yourself concentrating on the speculation which I placed on the premises you are using and which, I may declare, still remains intact.

Wilde Mutton

8 May 2005, 01:52 AM

Am I wrong or what? I think I am since no type can be called idiot, but at the same time they are idiots, it`s kind of weird.

When did you add the boldened one? You might be right - that is exactly my point. You might or might not be justified in your dislike towards a type. Do the questions I asked seem easy to answer? To me they don´t. While as long as one cannot answer the questions I have represented no point can in all likelihood be said to have good grounds, it is UNDERSTANDABLE why you should resent a type - statistical inferences are easily believed by anyone. They are arguments represented in a form that persuades us to agree because the weight of even the most frivolous claim can thus "clothed" seem heftier than it is.

Edit: A hefty weight?

LuridLemur

8 May 2005, 02:18 AM

My least favorite type has to be ESTJ. All of the ones I know are aggresive arrogant assholes.

Black-Master

8 May 2005, 04:04 PM

My least favorite type has to be ESTJ. All of the ones I know are aggresive arrogant assholes.

I too don`t like ESTJ`s males. They don`t/miss understand us. But ESTJ`s females are ok not that I know so many. Besides perfect mate to INTP is ESTJ or ENTJ ...

ShadyShady

8 May 2005, 11:46 PM

The hedonistic, let's just have fun, values of an SP bother me to no end. However I do like ISFPs, simply because they do have a lot in common. I have a good ISFP friend and a good ISFP cousin friend. Their philosophy of "just smile and you'll be happy" drives me nuts, though. Their thinking seems rather shallow. Same with other SP. It's ESPs that bother me the most. And I absolutely can't STAND ESTPs. But it is the ESPs that have this "let's drink, eat and be merry (and while were at it have orgys and lots of meaningless sex)" and I can't STAND that!

Yes, NFs and SPs typically do not get along. The only thing that ESPs are good for is making a party fun. Otherwise, they are shallow, hedonistic (and that's a BIG insult, coming from me) crass, and think about physical pleasure FAR to much!!! They drive me UP THE WALL!!!!!BLAHHHH!!! :angry:

See? MG? Hee! :)

I wish people would fill in their gender on this site. The reason for that is posts like the one above.

female: I hate ESP males because they just want to have sex.

male: I love ESP females because they just want to have sex.

too many of you arent helping much because we cant tell where your perspective is coming from.

moni

9 May 2005, 03:49 AM

I know only 4 ISTJ`s and they are all idiots! I am not the only one who consider those 4 ISTJ`s that I know idiots. And those who do are differant types. So what I am saying is all ISTJ`s are idiots. Am I wrong or what? I think I am since no type can be called idiot, but at the same time they are idiots, it`s kind of weird.

*tears* :cry: i'm an istj... and i like the two istj friends i have... they're very funny, heh heh.

just out of curiosity, how are all of you able to "type" out everyone you know? i get a general feeling of how people are... but that doesn't mean i truly understand what type they are.

i'm not sure what "type" bothers me the most.
*trying to think of people i don't like*
Hmmm, maybe ENTJ? i get irritated by loud mouths that whine or think they know what they're talking about but don't (and i mean factual things... like programming in C).

meshou

9 May 2005, 04:04 AM

Seraph

9 May 2005, 04:38 AM

I'm currently in a relationship with an ENTJ, but I agree that they talk your ear off and seem to want to talk about themselves and their interests a lot more than anything else. I was watching a movie with my ENTJ friend, and he would not stop talking. He had commentary for every single scene, and I had to shut him up before he got us kicked out of the theater.

That said, I have a burning hatred for ESTJ's. There are so many irritating aspects of this type, I don't even know where to begin. All Guardians are anal-retentive sheep, but ESTJ's are just so much more in-your-face about it.

My mother is an ISFP, and I gotta say, if you're looking for intellectual depth or engaging conversation, look elsewhere. They seem to require very little in life (not necessarily a bad thing) and naively see the best in everyone. I've lost track of the number of times Mom has referred to someone as the nicest person she's ever met. And whenever I try to steer the conversation to a darker, more intriguing topic, it's an immediate shutdown, and she pulls it back to flowers and kindness and fluffy bunnies. That said, ISFP's are probably the best hands-off parents, especially for an INTP, but I certainly wouldn't want to be one.

moni

9 May 2005, 04:48 AM

there was one guy in my Japanese class that was always whining, mutters quite a bit, and shares unnecessary commentaries with the rest of the class. i can't pinpoint what type he is.... he can be outspoken, but i think he may be an introvert still...

i met up with some friends for lunch last week, and was asking about how the anime club is... the guy i mentioned above is in it too, and in the previous year, he tried to run for two different officer positions. he didn't win either, and he threw a temper tantrum!! yelling out "it's just a popularity contest!" and threw his backpack around. i have no idea where he got that from... most of us in the anime club are "social misfits" as my friend put it.

he does talk in an intellectual matter, and he raises good points SOMETIMES (when it comes to his complaining).

any idea how to type him? i'm thinking INTJ.

Black-Master

9 May 2005, 11:49 AM

*tears* :cry: i'm an istj... and i like the two istj friends i have... they're very funny, heh heh.

just out of curiosity, how are all of you able to "type" out everyone you know? i get a general feeling of how people are... but that doesn't mean i truly understand what type they are.

i'm not sure what "type" bothers me the most.
*trying to think of people i don't like*
Hmmm, maybe ENTJ? i get irritated by loud mouths that whine or think they know what they're talking about but don't (and i mean factual things... like programming in C).

Hey Moni!!!
You must be a uniq ISTJ! Hehe. You must know a lot of jokes.. since you are an ISTJ so. Are you a male or female?
I can tell what MBI type person very fast by just by observing and talking with the person. I read MBI for a half year and still reading, find it very intresting. You may like this site: http://www.personalitytype.com/types/istj.html -Click on speedreed an ISTJ forexample.

And yes it`s typical for an ISTJ to not like ENTJ since ISTJ finds ENTJ to be very arogant and selfish too much attention getting.

Lee

9 May 2005, 12:55 PM

just out of curiosity, how are all of you able to "type" out everyone you know? i get a general feeling of how people are... but that doesn't mean i truly understand what type they are.

I like to use this.

http://intuitivecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=961

:rofl:

I like ISTJs most of the time. They can be very intelligent and have an encyclopedic memory, I think it may have a lot to do with upbringing and what values were drummed in the ISTJ when young. The ISTJ I am sitting opposite for example (as I write this) is possibly the most unimaginative, close-minded, idiot I have ever met.

Black-Master

9 May 2005, 01:10 PM

I like to use this.

http://intuitivecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=961

...close-minded, idiot I have ever met.

ISTJ`s are Close-minded and over-serious yes.

Lee

9 May 2005, 01:20 PM

ISTJ`s are Close-minded and over-serious yes.
But what happens to an ISTJ that has NT or NF values drummed into them when young? will they not apply thier ISTJ qualities in a very different manner to fit with thier differing values?

Black-Master

9 May 2005, 01:26 PM

But what happens to an ISTJ that has NT or NF values drummed into them when young? will they not apply thier ISTJ qualities in a very different manner to fit with thier differing values?
Hell i know. What I know is that many TYPES don`t like ISTJ`s and I am one of them.

Phenylethylene

9 May 2005, 04:51 PM

I would imagine that it also depends somewhat on the environment.

One of the ISTJs I work with can drive me crazy, but I've learned to introduce new ideas to her slowly and subtly and then weather a brief tirade. If a proposed idea gets implemented, her ISTJ sense of loyalty kicks in and she can suddenly become one of its most ardent supporters. I think this really becomes a matter of policy -- she doesn't like to change it and whatever it is, is infallible. Si Te can be interesting at times -- in one instance, she couldn't understand how I was going on vacation because I hadn't marked it on my calendar.

My brother is also an ISTJ (guessed as much and had him test to confirm), but since we have lived in seperate households, I have developed a great appreciation for him. He is generally easy going (though particular about how things should be), helpful, reliable, and has a great memory for past events. If it weren't for his reminding me about family birthdays, etc, I'd likely be disowned by now. He is fairly serious minded, but really enjoys fun and funny people and has no problem letting loose in the presence of them. Where my humor has tended to be more verbal or visual, his has been more action based -- prankish.

Nighthawk

9 May 2005, 06:07 PM

just out of curiosity, how are all of you able to "type" out everyone you know? i get a general feeling of how people are... but that doesn't mean i truly understand what type they are.
This is a good reference for typing people:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316845183/qid=1115658367/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-5038866-4264006

glassmoon

9 May 2005, 07:46 PM

I also meant to add... I can totally see why a good majority of people hate us ENTPs. We're cool people, but most of us are self-important, somewhat arrogant, and always feeling the need to deviate from conventionality.

I also agree to whoever said that ENTPs' hidden agenda is to be loved.

Oh, and just because ESFJ annoys me the most doesn't mean that I don't think they're good people. In fact, I think they can be some of the best people, morally speaking. However, it doesn't stop me from feeling an inner need to tell them to shut up and stop blabbing about obvious things. ;)Hehe, I'm ENTP, and all the people I don't get along with are ENTP's...
From what I've seen it has a basis that ENTP's hidden agenda is to be loved, they're in a constant need for affirmation from others...

By the way, I think that although the ESFJ letters are opposite than INTP, ESFJ's are still much more similar to INTP's than many other types, they even share the same functions in the opposite order.

moni

10 May 2005, 05:15 AM

I like to use this.

http://intuitivecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?t=961

:rofl:

I like ISTJs most of the time. They can be very intelligent and have an encyclopedic memory, I think it may have a lot to do with upbringing and what values were drummed in the ISTJ when young. The ISTJ I am sitting opposite for example (as I write this) is possibly the most unimaginative, close-minded, idiot I have ever met.

heh heh, thanks for the link... although i don't see myself as a conformist nor a male :huh: . i also don't see myself as a close-minded idiot (i'm pretty open to learning about new cultures/traditions, ideas, etc... and heck, i'm doing quite well in college, but not as good as i hope). if i don't talk in debates with huge groups, that's because i'm absorbing other people's views first (i love listening). too bad i don't have that encyclopedic memory you mentioned, i'm better with applying formulas, algorithms, and such rather than spitting information back out.

LuridLemur

10 May 2005, 05:02 PM

Must.. kill... ESTJs.....

Miss Anthropic

12 May 2005, 11:17 AM

ESFJ "Everyone likes me and wants to be like me"

spirilis

12 May 2005, 12:35 PM

All ESxPs 'Thinking is boring' types. :rant:

ESTJs tend to get under my skin as well.
I love ESxPs, there's something relaxing about their stupidity that makes me want to drop everything and go play for a while :)

tragula

13 May 2005, 09:14 PM

Some ESTPs do get on my nerves sometimes these days... They often have an ultra-concrete view of the world, sort of a shallow, materialistic, sex-addict thing.

Ironically Ti is one of their primary functions. It is just grounded much more in physical reality. So much so that I think they sometimes lack imagination. I enjoy relating to them on their level sometimes, but it's a pity they can't seem to return the favor.

Anyway. Not true for all of course! (For example Letterman seems like likeable ESTP.) So, enough type bashing for now. Me bad.

Zero Angel

13 May 2005, 09:18 PM

I love ESxPs, there's something relaxing about their stupidity that makes me want to drop everything and go play for a while :)
I agree! Some of the most fun people are pretty simple. This one girl i know reminds me of the leading lady from Scream 3, and I am amused just being around her.

tragula

13 May 2005, 10:44 PM

RE: ESTPs. I think that during teens and 20s this type can have a lot of appeal. After all that is the period of life most people use for exploring and experiencing new things.

As you get a little older and start dig a little deeper, and lay down some roots, then things change. The cool guy from high school who was always a lot of fun, but who hasn't changed a bit, is going to become a lot more grating. Plus you just plain have less in common.

Just another example of how different types peak at different times and in different ways...

Geoff

13 May 2005, 10:47 PM