Know any ISFJ's?

[TPol]

After my asking several times, a good friend finally gave in and took the MBTI test. She came up with ISFJ. She questions whether or not that is right after reading one description. The "I" kind of surprises me, but the rest of the letters are logical to me. Anyone here know any ISFJ's? If so, please describe them. What are they like?

[joft]

they're fucking martyrs is what

[Snowflake]

meh

[Star]

Yeah that's my mom. Her whole life is taking care of people, and reading freerepublic and the Bible. Part of her way of taking care of people is informing them of all the wondrous things she has read on freerepublic and in the Bible.

[Nemesis]

what is freerepublic? It sounds like something similar to Right Wing AM Talk Radio...

[phenol]

they're fucking martyrs is what

YES! My mother is a very kind caring person, but she's also a martyr. She's ISFJ. She will tell you not to do something, and then later complain to you that you didn't do it. This is particularly true with cleaning. I don't meet her 'standards' for cleaning so this causes a problem.

[Star]

what is freerepublic? It sounds like something similar to Right Wing AM Talk Radio...
Yeah the freepers are like, Rush Limbaugh graduates.

Why, oh why did I get her a computer... :banghead:

[DeadDove]

Whoa, sounds just like my mom, ISFJ too...without the freerepublic part. Both of my parents (dad is ISTJ) went nuts with the Catholic church about 7 yrs ago and haven't slowed down since.

[joft]

they make you feel bad by purposefully letting you walk all over them. of course being an intp this would likely only be something you'd end up doing with someone you're really familiar with and have been around for a long time, like family. but they also use the fact that they constantly sacrifice on your behalf as leverage to be obstinate about certain things, and those things will likely drive you out of your mind and drive you to be less careful about walking all over them.

both of my parents are isfjs.

[Nemesis]

Yeah the freepers are like, Rush Limbaugh graduates.
:sick:

[Edmond Zedo]

They are no longer of any use to me.

[Eileen]

My mother is an ISFJ. She's very caring, concerned, and dutiful. She's also conservative, but she's not overbearing about it. I'm definitely a lot more overbearing with my liberalness.

She's definitely not a martyr. She rarely complains about anything.* She's had a really hard life, too.

*unless she is gearing up for or in the throes of a schizoaffective episode. These are disruptive and traumatic episodes, infrequent but intense.



I have an ISFJ ex also. He's not a martyr either.

[Eileen]

They are no longer of any use to me.

Nor are you to them, probably, which no doubt works out well enough.

[joft]

you don't think they're martyrs because you're an infj. you're probably sensitive enough to the F side of things to not wrong them enough for them to be martyrs to you

[Conan]

Marge Simpson

[Zephyrus055]

ISFJs I don't know. But ESFJs I know. That's my second most studied type.

Fe roxxors!

[Nemesis]

Fe roxxors!
:cheers:

[Zephyrus055]

:cheers:
Only in girls though.

[Nemesis]

Only in girls though.
<_<

[Conan]

Only in girls though.

Yeah its kind of gay in guys.

[Nighthawk]

My wife of 11 years is an ISFJ. She is a very kind and caring person. Not much of a martyr, but she will let some people walk all over her in trying to help them ... particularly her daughter. She has the typical SJ love of rules, orderliness, tradition, and societal standards ... but will break some rules at times ... such as speeding. She is very diligent and hard working ... and does not believe a job should be fun (in direct contrast to me). She has a tremendous capacity for detail work, like sifting through stacks of legal documents prior to testifying on medical cases. That would drive me nuts. Family is of prime importance to her. She is an excellent judge of a person's character and can usually size them up within minutes of meeting them. She places a high value on education, and has worked very hard to attain bachelor's and master's degrees. She is somewhat possession oriented, especially when it comes to having a nice home, car, and clothes. I am her continuous project in terms of her taking care of my well being. She also has a tremendous capacity for taking care of the sick and elderly. I certainly do not have that. No pleasure reading or games for her. Everything involves either becomming better at her job, or taking care of the home. She will watch some television shows for pleasure, however.

Her weaknesses however, involve not being able to think very strategically in terms of causality links between what is happening now and future events. She does grasp concrete causality from past events very easily, however. It is difficult for her to grasp abstract concepts and theories. She also lets her F get involved in much of her decision making, doing what "feels right" rather than what is best for all involved or fair. She has a huge blind spot when it comes to family and lets them stomp all over her at times. It was also a bit difficult for her to put together concise, written documents ... although she has become much, much better at it over the past few years, with my help and schooling.

Overall, she is a good balance for me. She displays strengths (J, S, and F) where I display weaknesses, and vice versa (P, N, and T). She provides me with something very precious for me. A sanctuary at home that is mostly free of drama and administrative overhead. I'm glad that she is an introvert, because I think living with an extravert, who always wanted to talk and be on the go, would burn me out.

[Nemesis]

Yeah its kind of gay in guys.
Actually I think it's pretty sexy if I do say so myself. Girls dig a guy who cares.

[Conan]

Actually I think it's pretty sexy if I do say so myself. Girls dig a guy who cares.

Right, of course they do.

[Nemesis]

Right, of course they do.
Don't be so bitter. Someday soon a man will come along who sticks around after he impregnates you, Esteban.

[Edit] OH MY GOD 777 POSTS I'VE HIT THE JACKPOT!!!

[TPol]

Interesting perspectives so far. I've never known her to be a martyr, but she's definitely head-strong and opinionated, especially when it comes to religion and hers being "the only correct one." She's a very loyal friend, loving, and has always been there for me. Second-best friend in the world to me, actually. Yet, her judgemental nature when it comes to religion and philosophies will likely separate us someday, I think, and at her own hand. I doubt she sees it coming, but I can. It is where her line of thinking typically leads, and it is reinforced in her by her SJ parents. It is happening in them, so I figure she's not far behind. I have been curious whether this sort of thing would happen with a non-religious ISFJ...if they come in that brand. :)

Edit: Good grief! It takes me so darn long to write a reply that a good 7 or 8 replies were stuffed in there between the last one I read and my entry. ** Goes back to read what has been missed. **

Edit, Part II: Okay, I've read it all up to this point now. Thanks for the replies. Nighthawk, your wife sounds a LOT like my friend. In fact, reading your perspective on her has made me realize that I don't think she would tell me to take a hike someday if it weren't for her parents' rabid-christian natures and their direct influence from being in the same community as her (and I'm not). I think it will come down to a decision between her loyalty to a friend and loyalty to family, which will tear her apart. Seeing this coming over the hill is part of why I wanted to know more about her possible personality type...how to make the whole ugly thing easier on her somehow. I'm not going to change. Unless she figures on trailing me the rest of my days in hopes of "rescuing me from my dangerous paths," I think it is going to come to such a decision situation for her someday.

[Nighthawk]

I have been curious whether this sort of thing would happen with a non-religious ISFJ...if they come in that brand. :)

My ISFJ wife is not overly religious, although she is quite spiritual and believes in God. We did go head-to-head quite a bit in earlier years when she wanted me to attend church ... either Catholic or Christian. I am very private when it comes to my spirituality and believe the organized religion is just a money-making scam / political power. I eventually made that point clear to her and she no longer insists that I go to church or make any external displays of spirituality. In fact, she even stopped going to church herself.

[Edmond Zedo]

Fe roxxors!
Se owns Fe and you know it.

[TPol]

My mother is an ISFJ. She's very caring, concerned, and dutiful. She's also conservative, but she's not overbearing about it. I'm definitely a lot more overbearing with my liberalness.

Your second sentence there describes my friend well, too. I think I'd be more overbearing with my liberalness than she is with her conservativeness if she wasn't so influenced by her parents and church.

Sorry to hear your mom has such troubles, by the way.

[Biff_Loman]

ISFJ wife. Family oriented, yes, and traditional by my standards - but not traditional by her family's standards.

She's very much interested in social justice/saving the world. She keeps pushing our diet closer and closer to vegetarianism in order to consume less of the world's resources. She volunteers at a shop that sells fair-trade goods.

She's a Christian, but not particulaly avid. She prays, but we've lived in this city since May and haven't even looked for a church. "Spirituality" as such doesn't interest her as much as an interest in helping others and improving the human condition, which she sees as the core of the gospel message.

I don't see the interest in material things. Obviously she wants a neat and clean home (currently impossible as we are renovating the house), but she buys her clothes at the thrift store.

It's a good match for us. We've cleared our hurdles and have figured things out; we compensate well for each other's weaknesses, and being with an introvert is great. We don't get out all that much, but I don't have to listen to her yak yak yak.

[MasterMerk]

Mother is ISFJ. She ain't that extreme on the J though. Not religious or political or opinionated. Gets into bitchy moods sometimes. Pretty normal.

[Sally]

My old boss is an ISFJ. He didn't make a point of making people feel guilty, but he DID let people walk all over him. Very very family oriented, huge work ethic, but at the same time loved to tell jokes and stories and buy things off of ebay (that he would then incorporate into a family project of some sort...).

He's an honest to God compassionate conservative, which would frustrate the hell out of me because it was like he was physically incapable of seeing how corrupt and horrible and self-serving people (especially politicians!) are. The world in his head.... I wish it were the real one.

But yeah. A great guy. Still, very difficult to maintain a relationship with (even a professional one!) what with the diametrically opposed worldviews.

[waxwing]

Mother is ISFJ, but probably close to ESFJ. Our relationship is full of conflict. She is a churchgoing, traditional woman who feels tremendous duty to do the things that she cannot control. She is intelligent, very detail oriented, and has amazing ability to remember dates and phone numbers. She cries easily (moreso now that she is going through menopause) and bothers me with petty questions such as "Have you seen my makeup brush?" She is passive and holds grudges. Whenever she does something nice for me, she somehow ends up holding it against me later when we argue. Overall, she is a well-respected woman in the community, and is a good schoolteacher. She takes pride in the appearance of order and peace even when there is latent tension and serious problems underneath. That part probably frustrates me most.

[Eileen]

you don't think they're martyrs because you're an infj. you're probably sensitive enough to the F side of things to not wrong them enough for them to be martyrs to you

Or, you know, maybe they aren't martyrs. I know some martyrs. I work pretty closely with one, and she drives me nuts (and apparantly I am not sensitive enough to the F side of things, because I am one of her favorite targets). The ISFJs I know are not martyrs. I'm sure that some are, but none of the ones I know are.

[Nemesis]

I don't really know any ISFJ's personally but I like what I read in the socionics description.

[Eileen]

I don't really know any ISFJ's personally but I like what I read in the socionics description.

If one loves you, you'll never go hungry or be cold ever again.

[Nemesis]

If one loves you, you'll never go hungry or be cold ever again.
:mellow: :) I suddenly feel very happy. Perhaps it's the feeling that my desperate hunger to know if such kind people actually do exist has finally been answered.

[Shimpei]

After my asking several times, a good friend finally gave in and took the MBTI test. She came up with ISFJ. She questions whether or not that is right after reading one description. The "I" kind of surprises me, but the rest of the letters are logical to me. Anyone here know any ISFJ's? If so, please describe them. What are they like?

Hello, I'm an ISFJ. Age 34. So I think my originally inferior/less advanced functions have already been started to develop.
First, I'm a typical "good citizen". Traditional, kind, nurturing, caring and sensitive to other's feelings. Inside I'm very simple. I'm at ease with self and life. Serene and private. I have very few close friends. BTW: one of them is and INTP. How great! I admire her talents at which I'm not too good.
Problem: low self-motivation and coping with lack of ambition. Further problem areas: I can be rigid and prone to be judgemental - that's definitely really bad. Bad. I'm constantly educating myself not to be so.
I'm genuinely warm and conscentious.
I think ISFJs are simple souls. Not as creative and imaginative as INTPs. But ISFJs can nicely complement INTPs if they are ready to listen to them and open to new ideas. And if they are willing to get rid of their proneness to rigidity and traditionalism.
For example my INTP friend recommends me something to read that she finds special and I do my best to find that book and read it. I also keep up with her projects. I keep up with her. Like Dr. Watson follows Sherlock Holmes.

[Sackanaka]

I've never met an identified ISFJ I despised, yet. Of those I know personally, I like their face-value honesty. They seem to have lower self esteem than typical of other types, which makes it all the more worthwhile to make them happy. That is, if you have some F in you I suppose.

[Edmond Zedo]

I can be rigid and prone to be judgemental - that's definitely really bad. Bad. I'm constantly educating myself not to be so.

No, don't change. Just go back to SJ-land. A.k.a. almost anywhere.

[distraction tactics]

My mother is an ISFJ. Will loathe you up and down, but despite her best judgement will invite you into her home and cook you a veritable feast. Loyal to a fault. The type of woman who should've had at least 6 kids. Grade 2 teacher, loves her job, almost a legend among her co-workers. Religious, but not judgementally so. Would phone me everyday if she could justify it. 'A bit clingy', very controlling of my father when first married (his choice: marriage or his pilot's license), and a complete OC neat freak pre-children. I have to say she's very mellow now, though. And I see very little sign of Ti.

[phenol]

I have been curious whether this sort of thing would happen with a non-religious ISFJ...if they come in that brand. :)

They do. My mom isn't very religious at all. She does say that she has a difficult time understanding how somebody could be an atheist.


Will loathe you up and down, but despite her best judgement will invite you into her home and cook you a veritable feast.

My grandmother is also an ISFJ, and that is definately true of her. She hates her brother but still offers him all kinds of food when he stops by.

[Ivy]

ISFJ wife. Family oriented, yes, and traditional by my standards - but not traditional by her family's standards.

She's very much interested in social justice/saving the world. She keeps pushing our diet closer and closer to vegetarianism in order to consume less of the world's resources. She volunteers at a shop that sells fair-trade goods.

She's a Christian, but not particulaly avid. She prays, but we've lived in this city since May and haven't even looked for a church. "Spirituality" as such doesn't interest her as much as an interest in helping others and improving the human condition, which she sees as the core of the gospel message.

I don't see the interest in material things. Obviously she wants a neat and clean home (currently impossible as we are renovating the house), but she buys her clothes at the thrift store.

It's a good match for us. We've cleared our hurdles and have figured things out; we compensate well for each other's weaknesses, and being with an introvert is great. We don't get out all that much, but I don't have to listen to her yak yak yak.

I think your wife is my soulmate, too. :)

[Electric]

Oh my god! Did anyone ever mention that ISFJs are clean freaks??? I have a mother who was a martyr, clean freak, guilt tripper, and ISFJ. This is their only bad side though. They will take great care of you. :)

[AcidGoethe]

ISFJ's are great people... they are good people that are particularly trustworthy and caring. ISFJ's are a blessing to this world. The ones I know are really kind to everyone and good natured. It's really a pity people walk over them... an ISFJ I knew got into problems with someone that was convinced she must of had hidden intentions for acting the way she did. She simply could not believe that the ISFJ was acting from a benevolent point of view so she started treating the ISFJ badly.

Without ISFJ's the world would be rotten!

[Shimpei]

No, don't change. Just go back to SJ-land. A.k.a. almost anywhere.

Crooked man, I thought you'd appreciate my efforts to be an SJ you won't despise.

[wildcat]

After my asking several times, a good friend finally gave in and took the MBTI test. She came up with ISFJ. She questions whether or not that is right after reading one description. The "I" kind of surprises me, but the rest of the letters are logical to me. Anyone here know any ISFJ's? If so, please describe them. What are they like?
My maternal grandfather was an INTP cobbler. His wife, my maternal grandmother, was an ISFJ. My IXTX Alzheimer mother, 85, told me yesterday in the phone: My mother was the best person I have ever encountered in my entire life.
This is not without interest from an INTP standpoint. The university cafeteria I frequented every day in a period of eight years employed a head waitress who was an ISFJ. She was the epitome of my grandmother. I should have thought she was my grandmother had I not realized my grandmother lay dead and buried. This woman hated me more than anyone else in the establishment- aside from my ESTJ professors: their hatred did emerge in a somewhat more vehement (but in less a pathological) form.

[Edmond Zedo]

Crooked man, I thought you'd appreciate my efforts to be an SJ you won't despise.
I wouldn't call it despisement, first of all...But we can't escape our nature.

[TPol]

Hello, I'm an ISFJ. Age 37. So I think my originally inferior/less advanced functions have already been started to develop.
First, I'm a typical "good citizen". Traditional, kind, nurturing, caring and sensitive to other's feelings. Inside I'm very simple. I'm at ease with self and life. Serene and private. I have very few close friends. BTW: one of them is and INTP. How great! I admire her talents at which I'm not too good.
Problem: low self-motivation and coping with lack of ambition. Further problem areas: I can be rigid and prone to be judgemental - that's definitely really bad. Bad. I'm constantly educating myself not to be so.
I'm genuinely warm and conscentious.
I think ISFJs are simple souls. Not as creative and imaginative as INTPs. But ISFJs can nicely complement INTPs if they are ready to listen to them and open to new ideas. And if they are willing to get rid of their proneness to rigidity and traditionalism.
For example my INTP friend recommends me something to read that she finds special and I do my best to find that book and read it. I also keep up with her projects. I keep up with her. Like Dr. Watson follows Sherlock Holmes.
Wow, Shimpei, your writing style and the way you think is just like my friend's, minus her religious rigidity. Makes me think she's probably an ISFJ for sure. She's exactly your age, too. What do you think your INTP friend thinks of you? Has she ever said much along those lines? Because of my ISFJ friend, I have quite an appreciation for ISFJ's (if indeed she is one).

I don't know. Perhaps I underestimate her loyalty as a friend. The more she learns about my philosophies, lack of church attendance, yoga practice, etc., the more she thinks I'm a "wayward soul." She's just starting to learn these things. A while back, she refused me a place to practice yoga when I needed it because it might be a "bad influence" on her kids. Recently, she's learning more about my philosophies on the Bible. Couple that with the way her parents judge people who aren't "strong christians," I'd think there'd be a lot of pressure on her to back off from me....or start preaching more, I suppose. Heh. Just trying to understand it from her perspective. I'm so "let others live the way they want to live" that it is a little difficult for me to comprehend her stance.

Judging by several of the responses here, it sounds like many of you have close relatives that are ISFJ. My guess is that such a relationship (especially when it is a parent) has slightly different dynamics than when it is a friendship. She's one of the few people outside my own family with whom I've had an argument or two, but we haven't spent long stretches of time together (not even a slumber party when we were kids). Yet, she is so perceptive that she knows me without my ever having said much to her. For someone like me who doesn't like to talk, that's a blessing. :) My guess is that I'm selling her short on what I think will happen in the future. From what I've read here, an ISFJ's loyalty is pretty steadfast. So then the question becomes whether I can withstand the "guidance." (smirk) Probably.

[Snowflake]

Crooked man, I thought you'd appreciate my efforts to be an SJ you won't despise.

There is no such thing.

[Eileen]

There is no such thing.

That's probably more unfortunate for you than for them.

[Snowflake]

That's probably more unfortunate for you than for them.

And your point is?

[Nemesis]

Oh dear. I daren't get into an exchange with Eileen.

[euterpenc]

At least you're not extraverted.

[Nemesis]

Yeah. Extroverts suck.

[Eileen]

And your point is?

My point is, I guess that it's your loss if you're going to use typology to assume that you will despise all members of a rather large group. That's all.

[euterpenc]

Yeah. Extroverts suck.

Aren't you an extravert...?

[Nemesis]

Aren't you an extravert...?
That's what I want you to think.

[Shimpei]

Wow, Shimpei, your writing style and the way you think is just like my friend's, minus her religious rigidity. Makes me think she's probably an ISFJ for sure. She's exactly your age, too. What do you think your INTP friend thinks of you? Has she ever said much along those lines? Because of my ISFJ friend, I have quite an appreciation for ISFJ's (if indeed she is one).

I don't know. Perhaps I underestimate her loyalty as a friend. The more she learns about my philosophies, lack of church attendance, yoga practice, etc., the more she thinks I'm a "wayward soul." She's just starting to learn these things. A while back, she refused me a place to practice yoga when I needed it because it might be a "bad influence" on her kids. Recently, she's learning more about my philosophies on the Bible. Couple that with the way her parents judge people who aren't "strong christians," I'd think there'd be a lot of pressure on her to back off from me....or start preaching more, I suppose. Heh. Just trying to understand it from her perspective. I'm so "let others live the way they want to live" that it is a little difficult for me to comprehend her stance.

Judging by several of the responses here, it sounds like many of you have close relatives that are ISFJ. My guess is that such a relationship (especially when it is a parent) has slightly different dynamics than when it is a friendship. She's one of the few people outside my own family with whom I've had an argument or two, but we haven't spent long stretches of time together (not even a slumber party when we were kids). Yet, she is so perceptive that she knows me without my ever having said much to her. For someone like me who doesn't like to talk, that's a blessing. :) My guess is that I'm selling her short on what I think will happen in the future. From what I've read here, an ISFJ's loyalty is pretty steadfast. So then the question becomes whether I can withstand the "guidance." (smirk) Probably.

I'll send you a private message.

[Edmond Zedo]

My point is, I guess that it's your loss if you're going to use typology to assume that you will despise all members of a rather large group. That's all.
I would expect some kind of damn NF to say that. ;)

[Eileen]

I would expect some kind of damn NF to say that. ;)

true. we just want everyone to :hug:

[grobyc82]

It seems that lots of intps here have IsFj mothers......Interesting

My mother is an isfj. She'll go through great lengths to make sure that the house is clean. She's not a religous person but I'm convinced she believes in a higher power.

I have very little to complain about with Isfjs, other than to say they kind of annoy me with their household pet peeves... But their intentions seem to be good, and they'll go OUT OF THEY'RE WAY to make sure people are properly accomodated for an X amount of occassions. But all of you already knew that, right?

[Ella]

One of my friends is an ISFJ, 50-something male. I can see where the occasional F drama/sulking thing would be annoying, but frankly his caretaking abilities just amaze me. He remembers the most innocuous of facts about someone's likes and dislikes, even years later. What also impresses about him are his analytical skills. They rival those of any INTP, including me. (I had him take the truncated online version of the MBTI because I thought he might be one of us!) I've been in his home; he's certainly no clean freak. He's classy, gracious and engaging. He's also brilliant and outstanding in his field (he's an editor). His ENTJ friend bosses him around and regards him with open contempt, which is awful to see. Something crucial to interacting with them is showing and telling them how much you appreciate all they do.

I used to dislike ISFJs but I can see how in some ways they might make good partners for INTPs. Sadly, it's nearly impossible to find those qualities in men. Are they just socialized right out of them?

[Shimpei]

One of my friends is an ISFJ, 50-something male. I can see where the occasional F drama/sulking thing would annoying, but frankly his caretaking abilities just amaze me. He remembers the most innocuous of facts about someone's likes and dislikes, even years later. What also impresses about him are his analytical skills. They rival those of any INTP, including me. (I had him take the truncated online version of the MBTI because I thought he might be one of us!) I've been in his home; he's certainly no clean freak. He's classy, gracious and engaging. He's also brilliant and outstanding in his field (he's an editor). His ENTJ friend bosses him around and regards him with open contempt, which is awful to see. Something crucial to interacting with them is showing and telling them how much you appreciate all they do.

I used to dislike ISFJs but I can see how in some ways they might make good partners for INTPs. Sadly, it's nearly impossible to find those qualities in men. Are they just socialized right out of them?

My INTP male friend and I get along very well. Surely it took a while (and some amount of frustration at the beginning) to understand his ways. Now our relationship is balanced: that is, I don't expect too much from him so I won't be hurt. :) Otherwise I admire his talents I don't have (NT) and his sense of humour. We nicely complement each other.

[meshou]

Boyfriend's grandma. Very sweet and open-minded, but also very indirect, and does get slightly frustrated that that goes over my head. Conversation is always pleasant, but akward.

[Nighthawk]

What also impresses about him are his analytical skills. They rival those of any INTP, including me.

My ISFJ wife also has impressive concrete analytical skills, with a great eye for detail work. She can wade through hundreds of pages of medical reports and develop a comprehensive synopsis on exactly what happened or did not happen. Attorneys love this.

I'm more of an abstract analysis person, delving into a system (like software or MBTI) to figure out how it works. Detail work, like churning through hundreds of documents, would bore me to tears.

[Eileen]

I'm more of an abstract analysis person, delving into a system (like software or MBTI) to figure out how it works. Detail work, like churning through hundreds of documents, would bore me to tears.


And, dare I say, you probably wouldn't be very GOOD at it either. I know for a fact that I wouldn't. Details are not my thing at ALL. I either become obsessed with unimportant ones or overlook the details altogether.

[Nighthawk]

And, dare I say, you probably wouldn't be very GOOD at it either. I know for a fact that I wouldn't. Details are not my thing at ALL. I either become obsessed with unimportant ones or overlook the details altogether.

Hmmm ... and here I thought detail work was a J forte. Perhaps it relies more on the S?

It is the repetition that gets to me in detail work. I recently made a web page that involved resizing a gazillion pictures into little thumbnails. Same process for each one. After the 5th resizing I was about ready to scream.

[cryokinetic]

I'm more of an abstract analysis person, delving into a system (like software or MBTI) to figure out how it works. Detail work, like churning through hundreds of documents, would bore me to tears.
Likewise... this is why I both love and hate geochemistry/petrology... there's a lot of detail work when dealing with chemical analysis... but this leads to some interesting abstract ideas.
e.g. chemical analysis of continental volcanic rocks :(

Using that analysis to figure out whether or not the source of the rocks fits mantle plume theory :)

Using that analysis to contribute to the argument as to whether or not mantle plumes are complete horseshit :rocker:

[sbw]

He's an honest to God compassionate conservative, which would frustrate the hell out of me because it was like he was physically incapable of seeing how corrupt and horrible and self-serving people (especially politicians!) are.

I love these people. they're great fun.

Scott

[sbw]

My INTP male friend and I get along very well. Surely it took a while (and some amount of frustration at the beginning) to understand his ways. Now our relationship is balanced: that is, I don't expect too much from him so I won't be hurt. :) Otherwise I admire his talents I don't have (NT) and his sense of humour. We nicely complement each other.

I used to have an ISFJ roommate (and friend) before she moved to another state. after she moved out of my condo, but before she moved outta state--she called me all the fuckin time.

and I've mentioned in other threads that my mom is an ISFJ too. I think the "likely careers" list for that type should just say "mother" and not have any other items on the list.

Scott

[eyebyte_atWork]

Hmmm ... and here I thought detail work was a J forte. Perhaps it relies more on the S?

It is the repetition that gets to me in detail work. I recently made a web page that involved resizing a gazillion pictures into little thumbnails. Same process for each one. After the 5th resizing I was about ready to scream.


Kiersey says its the combination of S and J. Thus SJ - and introverted ones can do detailed analysis like crazy.

[justanotherMOAner]

[QUOTE=joft]they make you feel bad by purposefully letting you walk all over them. of course being an intp this would likely only be something you'd end up doing with someone you're really familiar with and have been around for a long time, like family. but they also use the fact that they constantly sacrifice on your behalf as leverage to be obstinate about certain things, and those things will likely drive you out of your mind and drive you to be less careful about walking all over them.

:unsure:I think I recognise myself in this thread, and I don´t like it!

[justanotherMOAner]

My INTP male friend and I get along very well. Surely it took a while (and some amount of frustration at the beginning) to understand his ways. Now our relationship is balanced: that is, I don't expect too much from him so I won't be hurt. :) Otherwise I admire his talents I don't have (NT) and his sense of humour. We nicely complement each other.

:blink:You discribe my relation in this thread!

[booyalab]

my cousin is an ISFJ, I wouldn't say she's a martyr but she likes feeling useful. She was a spoiled brat when she was a kid, as she was born with some 'conditions' and was the only girl after 2 boys, but now she's probably the nicest person I know. She's intelligent, though not intellectual or worldly at all, and has a good sense of humor for an SJ.

[digesthisickness]

i'm glad for the ones that have had great experiences with ISFJ's...

but my ISFJ friend tends to drive me insane. he's in love, and no matter how many times i've been straightforward and honest and told him that i'll never love him beyond friendship, he persists... as if he's trying to ingratiate himself into my life simply by not going away and insisting on doing things that i've repeatedly told him that i can do myself. and when i take care of things myself... he ever-so-subtly insinuates that i went to someone else (another man... ugh) instead of him for help.

i've told him numerous times... "i took care of myself before i even knew you existed... i can do it now", but he acts as though the only other option at my disposal is having another man take care of a problem. (a conclusion that confuses me, since from day one, he's witnessed me as completely self-sufficient). so, that's infuriating to someone who's always taken pride in the fact that they can and do take care of themselves. (not to mention that it feels as though he's calling me a stupid whore who needs, thus uses, men to solve her problems)

for instance, 1) if he sees i have some practical problem, then he breaks his neck to solve it before i can... then when i don't swoon with appreciation (because i see #2 coming up) then 2) he throws it in my face later... (though he denies that this is what he's doing)... "i did what i did because i care about you and worry about you." and the inevitable and usually out of the blue, "it's like you don't care if we're friends or not... and i try so hard to please you. that's why i did...[and here comes a list of shit that i never asked him to do, but now i'm supposed to feel guilty because he did them]"

to which i always end up having to say, "if it was just a good feeling that you were going for... if it really was just because you care when you did (whatever), then why are you throwing it up in my face? why do you need me to say anything at all?"

i realize this could seem cold-hearted to some, but i see this as pure manipulation... an attempt to guilt me into feeling something that i simply do not feel.

then there's the smothering questions when he has no right to ask them, and the tears when he gets the truth, the constant need for reassurance that i 'see' him are enough to make me want to kill him...

unbeknownst to him, 70% of the reason that i moved last time was to get 45 minutes further away from him. thank god he takes a rise in gas prices personally... that at least keeps his visits to a minimum.

but, in all fairness, it's been his levelheadedness in practical matters (without my asking him to... he reminds me of appointments, keeps me informed on weather conditions, notices flat tires, remembers when it's time to change the oil, etc), loyalty, and willingness to at least try to see my point of view that has allowed for me to see him as a friend. though, honestly, i don't see it continuing much longer.

but i can see, quite easily, why an ISFJ would be okay for an INTP IF they were in love with that ISFJ. it's just that in my situation, the two clash horribly.

a side thought... as a result of having him for a friend... there are times when i seriously wonder if the majority of scorned people that end up shooting the one they 'love' and/or then shooting themselves are ISFJ's... unhealthy ones or otherwise

[Shimpei]

i'm glad for the ones that have had great experiences with ISFJ's...

but my ISFJ friend tends to drive me insane. he's in love, and no matter how many times i've been straightforward and honest and told him that i'll never love him beyond friendship, he persists... as if he's trying to ingratiate himself into my life simply by not going away and insisting on doing things that i've repeatedly told him that i can do myself. and when i take care of things myself... he ever-so-subtly insinuates that i went to someone else (another man... ugh) instead of him for help.

i've told him numerous times... "i took care of myself before i even knew you existed... i can do it now", but he acts as though the only other option at my disposal is having another man take care of a problem. (a conclusion that confuses me, since from day one, he's witnessed me as completely self-sufficient). so, that's infuriating to someone who's always taken pride in the fact that they can and do take care of themselves. (not to mention that it feels as though he's calling me a stupid whore who needs, thus uses, men to solve her problems)

for instance, 1) if he sees i have some practical problem, then he breaks his neck to solve it before i can... then when i don't swoon with appreciation (because i see #2 coming up) then 2) he throws it in my face later... (though he denies that this is what he's doing)... "i did what i did because i care about you and worry about you." and the inevitable and usually out of the blue, "it's like you don't care if we're friends or not... and i try so hard to please you. that's why i did...[and here comes a list of shit that i never asked him to do, but now i'm supposed to feel guilty because he did them]"

to which i always end up having to say, "if it was just a good feeling that you were going for... if it really was just because you care when you did (whatever), then why are you throwing it up in my face? why do you need me to say anything at all?"

i realize this could seem cold-hearted to some, but i see this as pure manipulation... an attempt to guilt me into feeling something that i simply do not feel.

then there's the smothering questions when he has no right to ask them, and the tears when he gets the truth, the constant need for reassurance that i 'see' him are enough to make me want to kill him...

unbeknownst to him, 70% of the reason that i moved last time was to get 45 minutes further away from him. thank god he takes a rise in gas prices personally... that at least keeps his visits to a minimum.

but, in all fairness, it's been his levelheadedness in practical matters (without my asking him to... he reminds me of appointments, keeps me informed on weather conditions, notices flat tires, remembers when it's time to change the oil, etc), loyalty, and willingness to at least try to see my point of view that has allowed for me to see him as a friend. though, honestly, i don't see it continuing much longer.

but i can see, quite easily, why an ISFJ would be okay for an INTP IF they were in love with that ISFJ. it's just that in my situation, the two clash horribly.

a side thought... as a result of having him for a friend... there are times when i seriously wonder if the majority of scorned people that end up shooting the one they 'love' and/or then shooting themselves are ISFJ's... unhealthy ones or otherwise

I hear what you say. Actually I had a similar experience with another ISFJ (two isfjs...). It was terribly annoying: his constant nagging and his sense of coercion to please and compliment me. This turned me off and finally I told him not to be so kind because I can't handle it. (:)) Then we could switch to a low-key friendship. It was hard to make him understand my point though. Meanwhile I had to realize that his clingyness could be attributed to his mental problems.
Not all isfjs are that bad. In fact they are flexible folks who can adapt to your ways.

[distraction tactics]

...

Why are you even putting up with him?

[digesthisickness]

I hear what you say. Actually I had a similar experience with another ISFJ (two isfjs...). It was terribly annoying: his constant nagging and his sense of coercion to please and compliment me. This turned me off and finally I told him not to be so kind because I can't handle it. () Then we could switch to a low-key friendship. It was hard to make him understand my point though. Meanwhile I had to realize that his clingyness could be attributed to his mental problems.
Not all isfjs are that bad. In fact they are flexible folks who can adapt to your ways..

it seems to me as though they act differently depending on whether or not they're in love... or not necessarily in love but have just chosen someone for directing their attentions... which can be considerable. it seems as though they'd rather be miserably unhappy with the person they've chosen to focus on than to have no one to focus on at all



Why are you even putting up with him?.

because... ugh... he did a lot for my family without my knowing he was doing so until afterwards, and they now see him as 'absolutely priceless'... a really wonderful guy... (because they've only seen that side of him... they don't have to deal with him the way that i do) and see me as an ungrateful person.

so until now, i let both the fact that he helped them and my family's opinion influence me... however, like i said, i see it coming to an end. i just can't take it any more. it's gotten to an almost frightening point. he's never been violent (if anything, he'd stand there and let me stab him... not that i would), but he does strike me as the type to 'snap'

yesterday, i was napping on the couch when he came to visit, and i didn't hear him knock. he let himself in the door when i didn't answer (later, he claimed he did so because he was 'concerned' something may be wrong with me... uh huh). i'm not sure how long he was there before i woke up, but when i did, it was to find him nosing at my computer! so, i kicked him out of my house.

in pure 'him' fashion, he reasoned that since he helped me move the computer in... he had a right to look at it all he wanted to. again... throwing something in my face in an attempt to make me feel guilty.

so, like i said, i see no other way than to end the friendship.

[distraction tactics]

...

Emotional warfare, gotta love it.

If you'd laid out to him in clear terms your position and your problem with his behaviour (and his lack of effort to change it), then you're completely justified in dropping the guy. Sounds like a real case. :crazy:

[justanotherMOAner]

Why are you even putting up with him?
Yes, I agree, sounds more like a stalker to me!!! :eek:

[justanotherMOAner]

it seems to me as though they act differently depending on whether or not they're in love... or not necessarily in love but have just chosen someone for directing their attentions... which can be considerable. it seems as though they'd rather be miserably unhappy with the person they've chosen to focus on than to have no one to focus on at all

because... ugh... he did a lot for my family without my knowing he was doing so until afterwards, and they now see him as 'absolutely priceless'... a really wonderful guy... (because they've only seen that side of him... they don't have to deal with him the way that i do) and see me as an ungrateful person.

so until now, i let both the fact that he helped them and my family's opinion influence me... however, like i said, i see it coming to an end. i just can't take it any more. it's gotten to an almost frightening point. he's never been violent (if anything, he'd stand there and let me stab him... not that i would), but he does strike me as the type to 'snap'

yesterday, i was napping on the couch when he came to visit, and i didn't hear him knock. he let himself in the door when i didn't answer (later, he claimed he did so because he was 'concerned' something may be wrong with me... uh huh). i'm not sure how long he was there before i woke up, but when i did, it was to find him nosing at my computer! so, i kicked him out of my house.

in pure 'him' fashion, he reasoned that since he helped me move the computer in... he had a right to look at it all he wanted to. again... throwing something in my face in an attempt to make me feel guilty.

so, like i said, i see no other way than to end the friendship.
Yes just what I said, a reallife STALKER, I think you need to and this "friendship" today!!!:whyi:

[digesthisickness]

indeed... the time has come. the sooner i do it the better too.

aaaanyway, i'm done now... having contributed my bit of information to pop up on good ol' google for the rest of internet history when someone types in "ISFJ" :)

[justanotherMOAner]

[QUOTE=digesthisickness]indeed... the time has come. the sooner i do it the better too.

Yes, and please don´t forget to change your locks!!!!
Why did you give him your key in the first place!!!! And please understand that his behaviour has in my opinion nothing to do with ISFJ´s, I think he is just a psycho-maniac. Don´t listen to your family too much to, they obviously don´t know him well.

[Ivy]

yesterday, i was napping on the couch when he came to visit, and i didn't hear him knock. he let himself in the door when i didn't answer (later, he claimed he did so because he was 'concerned' something may be wrong with me... uh huh). i'm not sure how long he was there before i woke up, but when i did, it was to find him nosing at my computer! so, i kicked him out of my house.

in pure 'him' fashion, he reasoned that since he helped me move the computer in... he had a right to look at it all he wanted to. again... throwing something in my face in an attempt to make me feel guilty.

so, like i said, i see no other way than to end the friendship.

This guy has bigger problems than being an ISFJ. That's not why he's a dick. Doorslam time!

[deus ex machina]

ex girlfriend is. I hate her more than any other person alive.

[Superstring]

Yeah that's my mom. Her whole life is taking care of people, and reading freerepublic and the Bible. Part of her way of taking care of people is informing them of all the wondrous things she has read on freerepublic and in the Bible.

Wow, just like my isfj mom....

[Aaron Brown]

Yeah its kind of gay in guys.
I used to work with a guy who was an ISFJ. He was alwayd trying to help folks but it aways came off like he was trying to do too much. It was a bit weird. It just seemed like he was a bit of a nerd. Ok thats a lot coming from the an INTP. I've know two female ISFJs. I liked both. The first one let her mother boss her around a lot. She was a history major at my school and was pretty traditional. I do respect ISFJs even through through they tend too be conservative and literal. They are honest, loyal and are hard workers. They don't always jump at the newest ideas but if you have patience you can understand and appreciate them.

P.S. Has anyone observed the interactions of an ENFP and ISFJ. I have a female friend who has disliked every ISFJ that I noticed she has worked with without me ever telling her that each one of these persons was ISFJ. Have you noticed that ENFPs dislike ISFJs?

[Lee]

What's an ISFJ?

[digesthisickness]

the opposite of me

[Lee]

the opposite of meem?

[digesthisickness]

exactly

[mancroft]

ISFJs are servants. They like serving people. I know an ISFJ who is the manager of a tobacconist shop. He has worked as a shop assistant/manager ALL his working life... nearly 50, yes 50, years.

He is a typical ISFJ. He wants to be of service to people. Most of the following applies to him. He is the sort of bloke that people take for granted because he is always there.

* - Desire is to be of service and to minister to individual needs.
* - Need to be of service to others.
* - Devoted to mate and family.
* - Attitude of nurturing as well as an attitude of being critical.
* - Often are taken for granted.
* - Friends often criticize them for letting others continually take advantage of their goodness.
* - Allow themselves to become the doormats of a marriage.
* - Strong sense of duty and commitment.
* - Careful and exact in the words they use, words that represent bonds and contracts to be taken very seriously.
* - A quiet, guardian-like role.
* - Subjugation of the parents' needs in favor of the children's.
* - Will complain about all the work, responsibilities, or demands.
* - In fact, there is nothing that ISFJs would rather be doing.
* - Stubbornness will give way if authority . . .
* - Some other sense of responsibility can be appealed to .
* - Prefer assignments that are highly defined.
* - Believe work builds character.