an INTP quirk

[Lucas]

Quoting http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html#SI describing introverted sensing of INTPs:

"When an object is put aside, not to be returned to for a while, it will lie fully ignored until used again. Objects which lie unmoved for more than about 48 hours usually become invisible to the INTP, until such time as he has a use for them again. For other temperaments whose need for tidiness and order in a house is strong, this lack of concern in this area may seem despairing. For the INTP, however, no problem exists. Corners of rooms, table tops and cupboards may become cluttered with objects, but while they don't move they remain effectively invisible and are unimportant."

Does anyone else do this too? I'm looking around my room right now noticing all the seperate but organized piles of junk laying around that I'd forgotten about for weeks. :huh:


-lucas

[cjs55]

Yes, often, and put it in my IM profile for a while because it was so damn true.

I do this with soda cans/beer bottles as well, except with those they pretty much disappear to me within an hour of nonuse, whether I drank them or not.

I'm also occasionally terrible at finding things that I have left lying around and mentally morphed into the surrounding background environment, even if they are in plain sight.

[Arioch]

I'm terrible with this. Maybe this is one of the ways to see a INTJ from a INTP.

[file cabinet]

I don't like it when my mom cleans up the dirthy laundry that was on my floor. why can't she just leave it the way it was? it's always eerie coming home to see my room appearing clean.

[Arioch]

I don't suppose this has anything to do with your penchant for cross dressing?


I just hate it because I can't find anything anymore when it's clean.

[purple13]

You should see my cube at work. :o This reminds me of that song, "She blinded me with Science" (she's tidied up.. I can't FIND anything).

[Strephonade]

lol! So true...I prefer to clean things up myself, so I can use my own powers of organization to remember where I put things.
Oddly enough, I'll remember exactly where each and every thing is when I do this, so when I need it, it's easy to find. If something's just semi-useful though, it likely will go into a random semi-useful pile, which I wind up throwing away when I sort through it later.

[BritainOphira]

I really started to notice this today when I was doing a mandatory clearing out of the floor. I had a messy stack of ACT/PSAT/SAT registration crap, a pile of clothes waiting to be laundered, a five-foot circle of shoes I haven't worn in I don't know how long, a pile of blankets hanging precariously from the edge of my bed, an entire stack of receipts I'd forgotten about slowly taking over my dresser, and too much other stuff to mention. The worst part of it all is that I hadn't really realized any of it was there. I mean, sure I noticed it was there when I tripped over something, but I never really took the time to figure out what is was or why I still had mounds of crap laying around.

[crule81]

People generally understand that messes don't bother me. They attempt to talk me into tidiness by pointing out how long it takes to find something when I eventually need it. I reply that it would take just as long or longer to organize and put things away, so I actually save time and effort with the mess. Most of the time I can remember exactly where things are buried anyway.

[CeSoirNoir]

I have piles of stuff everywhere in my room. And I do notice its there, but its just becomes "part" of my room after a certain amount of time.

[Crazy]

Thinking about it just now, yes, I do that. I even sat and thought about random items, and I know exactly where they are, or were, considering my wife cleans things up all the time, then I have no idea where they are, and she forgets.

[Tatsuboshi]

I remember taking my gloves out of the washer and not putting them in the dryer with the other stuff in case they'd shrink (I might have been in a J mood at the time)... I'm fairly sure I put them in a place where I was supposed to be able to find them. Now, I'm not sure where they are... I'm sure I'll eventually find them in a perfectly logical place that I'm somehow overlooking.

Curse of the J/P boundary, perhaps? It's like Dr. Jekell and Mr. Hyde or something... :ph34r:

[Boozer]

I remember taking my gloves out of the washer and not putting them in the dryer with the other stuff in case they'd shrink (I might have been in a J mood at the time)... I'm fairly sure I put them in a place where I was supposed to be able to find them. Now, I'm not sure where they are... I'm sure I'll eventually find them in a perfectly logical place that I'm somehow overlooking.

Curse of the J/P boundary, perhaps? It's like Dr. Jekell and Mr. Hyde or something... :ph34r:

Hehe I'm also on the P/J border. So my spaces are a mess that I don't notice... and I can't find anything. :P

The only things I can find are the things I leave in the same place. So my keys and wallet are always in the last pair of pants I wore, that's about the extent of my organization abilities.

[booyalab]

shouldn't the title of this thread be plural?

[Arioch]

People generally understand that messes don't bother me. They attempt to talk me into tidiness by pointing out how long it takes to find something when I eventually need it. I reply that it would take just as long or longer to organize and put things away, so I actually save time and effort with the mess. Most of the time I can remember exactly where things are buried anyway.

I'm going to steal that idea :ph34r:

[MacGuffin]

People generally understand that messes don't bother me. They attempt to talk me into tidiness by pointing out how long it takes to find something when I eventually need it. I reply that it would take just as long or longer to organize and put things away, so I actually save time and effort with the mess. Most of the time I can remember exactly where things are buried anyway.

I'm going to steal that idea :ph34r:

Organization is for lazy people. They never want to take the time to look for anything!

[Groty]

People generally understand that messes don't bother me. They attempt to talk me into tidiness by pointing out how long it takes to find something when I eventually need it. I reply that it would take just as long or longer to organize and put things away, so I actually save time and effort with the mess. Most of the time I can remember exactly where things are buried anyway.

And it's always fun to find something, in a pile/box/linen closet, that you'd forgotten about.

Except left over meals....

[jimkopelli]

So true. So true it's not even funny. If I'm not using something, it goes in a pile. When I need it again, it doesn't take me long to remember which pile it's in. It's not a mess, it's just not organized.

[KentOhio]

I have piles of stuff everywhere in my room. And I do notice its there, but its just becomes "part" of my room after a certain amount of time.
Same with me. I don't have the heart to move certain things because they've been in the same place forever. I have an Easter basket, complete with candy, next to where I sleep. It's been there since Easter 2003. When Easter 2004 came, it got 2 friends. Everything around me is part of my personal time capsule.

[KentOhio]

[posted twice]

[Arioch]

People generally understand that messes don't bother me. They attempt to talk me into tidiness by pointing out how long it takes to find something when I eventually need it. I reply that it would take just as long or longer to organize and put things away, so I actually save time and effort with the mess. Most of the time I can remember exactly where things are buried anyway.

And it's always fun to find something, in a pile/box/linen closet, that you'd forgotten about.

Except left over meals....

I sometimes find little piles of money that I hid there ages ago. I consider it my reward for cleaning up something.

[YourLocalCynic]

My usual answer to the question of "Why don't you move/clean/organize the stuff in/on your bag/floor/dresser?" is "Why? It isn't HURTING anything!" I never really notice the mess, or the size of the mess, until it starts hindering me in some way. As in, I start tripping over things, or I don't have anymore space to put anything new. That's when I'll start do something about it. Until that happens, pfft, everything's fine where it is.

[Lucas]

Oddly enough, I'll remember exactly where each and every thing is when I do this, so when I need it, it's easy to find. If something's just semi-useful though, it likely will go into a random semi-useful pile, which I wind up throwing away when I sort through it later.

I've done that for as long as I can remember. B)

[lauriep]

My husband will clean things up and I can't find anything so now I just keep my piles of stuff in my own little area that he knows better than to mess with. But it's limited room so I have to be more organized than I was before I got married.

[Sam172]

I have piles of stuff everywhere in my room. And I do notice its there, but its just becomes "part" of my room after a certain amount of time.

Just how I feel too. I mean I started to clear out this room recently, a mojor cleanout at that. There are now boxes left where I put things away, and stacked them up.....but have just become part of the room now. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, unless I can't move from one end to the other.

[INTrPosr]

I recall during a Lou Tice seminar in Seattle Washington many moons ago, Mr. Tice coined a phrase Reticular Activating System (RAS) wherein a person may notice something out of place, broken, in need of repair or clean up, etc., however, the longer it remains out of place the easier it is to accept. I have been driving my Jeep now for eight years, and it looks like a piece of shit, but I never consider all of the bangs until someone else gets in my vehicle. Then I become self conscious. I am that way with clutter, unless I lose something and am in dire need of finding. Otherwise, business as usual.

I think that once the newness or need for something wears out, I can be very oblivious to it's existence and need to care for it.

[cloakable]

I recall during a Lou Tice seminar in Seattle Washington many moons ago, Mr. Tice coined a phrase Reticular Activating System (RAS) wherein a person may notice something out of place, broken, in need of repair or clean up, etc., however, the longer it remains out of place the easier it is to accept. I have been driving my Jeep now for eight years, and it looks like a piece of shit, but I never consider all of the bangs until someone else gets in my vehicle. Then I become self conscious. I am that way with clutter, unless I lose something and am in dire need of finding. Otherwise, business as usual.

I think that once the newness or need for something wears out, I can be very oblivious to it's existence and need to care for it.

Really? According to a paper I read by someone called Kathrene Bezengier, the RAS governs the overall level at which our brains take in information, and the level is higher for introverts, giving rise to the defensive behavior of automaticaly limiting the information we recieve, in order to prevent ourselves from being overwhelmed. Well thought out and seemed to make a lot of sense.

[SensEye]

Oh yeah, this is so me.

I have a letter dated 1994 regarding a factory recall for a defective parking brake on my vehicle. That letter has sat there for 10 YEARS. I keep thinking I may yet get around to dealing with that brake issue. :huh:

There's another letter entitling me to $58 dollars from a class action lawsuit (4 years old, never got around to claiming it), a rather large rice paper wall tracing from my trip to Angkor Wat (2 years ago, I still notice it and every time I see it I think I should find a place to pin it up) along with a bunch of other crap, some of it quite dated.

There is a tiny little spot burrowed through to the table. For some reason I can't explain, I only eat at the kitchen table when I have cereal for breakfast.

[Claverhouse]

This was done in the Elder Forum, so I'm not going to repeat. But I did recently formulate a new law of housekeeping:

'When you have no clean cutlery to be found anywhere, it is time to wash-up'.

So who can claim men are no good at that sort of thing ?


Actually, although many here no doubt know of the great Mil Millington's Website: Things My Girlfriend And I Have Argued About (http://www.mil-millington.com/), wherein he lists his tribulations with the adorable Margret ( German, and good at it ).


Did you notice this ?


Anyway, never mind that now, because the real point is that it's Margret who fills our house with crap. And I'm not talking about doing so by the omission of crap-throwing-away here, but by insane design. While sorting out the stuff in the boxes, these are some of the things I've discovered that Margret actually packed away at our last house and brought to our new one:

* A dentist's cast of her teeth circa 1984.
* Empty Pringles tubes.
* Rocks (not 'special ornamental rocks', you understand, just 'rocks' from our previous garden).
* Old telephone directories.
* Two carrier bags full of scraps of material.
* Those little sachets of salt and sugar you get with your meal on planes.
* Some wooden sticks.
* Last year's calendar.

And yet, were I to throw her from a train, they'd call me the criminal.


Personally I can claim to have had 5 of those categories whilst moving.



Claverhouse :ph34r:


Hell, why not ? From Mil's latest posting ( 32 ):


First of all, let me convince you that I am hostage to no more, and no more alarming, sexual urges than any other man of my politics and height. In fact, 'fewer and less', I suspect. To demonstrate, let me mention that Margret and I went to see PJ Harvey in Birmingham the other week.

Besides being a frankly mesmerising singer-songwriter, Ms Harvey is also a woman it's impossible even to glance at without risking near-dangerous levels of tumescence. As she walks past, fruit ripens. If she bends over, onlookers fall into gasping, buzzing unconsciousness where they stand. This is a simple fact. So, she strode on to the stage at the Carling Academy, and immediately the mind of every single person there was filled with the words, "Take me, Polly! Take me, tie me up, bestride my trembling body and drag me to shuddering, spent ecstasy even if the dark, sin-strung journey costs me my very life!"

Though, admittedly, I think I was the only person in the auditorium actually to shout these words out during the expectant pause while she was still picking up her guitar.

I mention this, as I say, to show how my inclinations are not simply beyond reproach, but even, it's arguable, marvellous in a way that would reduce many a woman to fall to the earth, sobbing with joy that she was blessed enough to have me as her partner. You see, according to myriad surveys, the most frequent fantasy among men is for a sexual encounter with two women. (That is, "At the same time." Not, as the Canadians among you may be assuming, "Ever.") Well, catch that I am, this doesn't attract me at all. An extra woman would, for me, dilute the intensity, not double it. That, and the burden of having to stay awake to empathise with two lots of stories about their useless immediately-previous boyfriends afterwards, presumably. Thus, as you can see, I'm especially desirable as a partner. No overly-casual questions about whether her friend Charlotte might like to join the two of us for a drink one evening from me, no siree.

Now, such is the erotic charisma of Ms Harvey, that even devoutly heterosexual women can't be in her physical presence without instantly being aware that the woman is the very apotheosis of surging desire. I know this. When PJ - thin cotton dress, high heels - appeared, I felt Margret glare at me... but then simply knew that she was musing, "Mind you, if I was going to try out the GGB option with anyone, then..." My natural instinct was to catch her thoughts, acknowledge them, but then reassure her that this wasn't something I would consider. Absolutely not. I'm a one-woman man. No, I'd definitely choose to sleep with PJ Harvey alone. Then, several weeks later, move back to Margret for a couple of evenings. And then alternate, until I was grey and hollow. (Though, obviously, when Alyson Hannigan finally comes around and starts answering my emails, the four of us will have to sit down together and bash out some kind of rota.)

Mark my words: long after I'm gone, Margret will sit in her prison cell serving out her life sentence for my exceptionally brutal murder and realise just what a good thing she had.

[Arioch]

I sometimes jokingly tell people that I'm so agile because I had to jump several times to get from one side of the room to my computer.

[Six]

I just moved my bed from one side of the room to the other... any pile encountered was just shoved aside... now I'm wondering what would happen if I just threw away one or two complete piles of stupid university-paper-stuff... can't imagine that I'd miss it at some point, haven't looked at it for months... B)

but somehow...can't... argh :ph34r:

[ainoassassin]

My mom used to complain that I've been eating too much candy because of the candy wrappers on the ground. Little did she know that they were the same wrappers that she was complaing about for the past six months. I just recently cleaned them up.

[t]

i keep a messy room. i have since i was little. i also keep my workspace cluttered, for the most part. i am awful at organization. i am completely content in a messy area as long as it's MY mess. i hate other people's messes. it's an organized mess, though. i can always find what i need.

i most definitely forget about things. i tend to collect stuff for the sake of collecting it and couldn't tell you the last time i used anything in the collection. i need to have my clothes displayed where i can see them or i will forget that i have certain outfits and buy new ones. this had led to me owning about 5 white tank tops. in fact, i need to have most things right out in front of me (this is probably why i keep a messy room, btw) or i will forget completely about them.

[Laeskis]

I do this...it doesn't make me too happy though, as I've been known to break a lot of good expensive stuff from stepping on it.
But it's everywhere!

[Fujikanaeda]

Empty space is the best place to stack stuff. Everything must be vertical :)

[Bluehaze]

This is one point where my INT"J"ness shines. All of my item (books, games, music, homework, etc.) are all organized extensively. For example, my CDs are organized by genre, alphabet, and release date. My magazines are stored in boxes or tubs with indexing in: chronology, genre, and magazine title. Almost all of the items that I own are done in such a manner--each within their own respect. I use desks, shelves, closests, and the trusty garage for storage rather than the 'random piles' method.

However, I may be doing this to help me find items better when, if in fact I do, forget where they are. More than likely, it is a little bit of both.

[shaytana]

My room is so bad right now, I have a huge pile of clothes that gets transfered from computer chair to bed and back again everyday and it just keeps growing.

[Chall T. Dow]

My room is sorta like that. I never have much on my floor, but that's mostly becaue things on my floor had a tendency to disappear when I was a kid. Instead I pile things on any relatively flat surface. I only clean if it gets so bad that I can't get any work done.

:devil: Chall T. Dow :devil:

[nobarcode]

I figured a few pictures would help illustrate the point. I used a phone cam, but...
my living room
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/nobarcode/livingroom.jpg
the garage
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/nobarcode/garage.jpg

Of course, these are considered "projects" ;)

[Ponderous]

So true. So true it's not even funny. If I'm not using something, it goes in a pile. When I need it again, it doesn't take me long to remember which pile it's in. It's not a mess, it's just not organized.

Exactly. I sort of have a feel for how far down in the pile to look. So it's organized. Organized my way.

This is why I no longer print anything out unless it's absolutely necessary. If someone at work gives me a printed presentation or a copy of something for reference, I just cringe. I'm thinking, "How long do I need to keep this on my desk before I trash it? Because if it was worth printing, it's probably worth filing and I'm certainly not going to do that."

[Ponderous]

I have piles of stuff everywhere in my room. And I do notice its there, but its just becomes "part" of my room after a certain amount of time.
Same with me. I don't have the heart to move certain things because they've been in the same place forever. I have an Easter basket, complete with candy, next to where I sleep. It's been there since Easter 2003. When Easter 2004 came, it got 2 friends. Everything around me is part of my personal time capsule.

I was just noticing this Christmas CD in my car the other day. Plus I found a Christmas tree watch that I had put in my "needs battery" pile prior to the holiday last year...

And look, in the corner, are those pine needles? I really should get rid of this tree sometime....

[Chall T. Dow]

Because if it was worth printing, it's probably worth filing and I'm certainly not going to do that."

Filing? What's that??? :huh: :huh: :huh:

:devil: Chall T. Dow :devil:

[gypseymothlee]

I used to have piles of stuff around my room, but my INTJ boyfriend has the tendency to get annoyed and clean the place while I'm away at work.

[Dunearhp]

The next time he does that you should shuffle his CD collection. :devil:

[Misty_Kye]

I go through spurts. While the P is in control the clutter piles up and begins to take over. Then the J will drop in a few times a year and I clean/organize everything. Then the P returns and I never remember where I put everything. :ph34r:

[Aryan]

If you'd look at my desk u'll find:
some scattered CDs, a book on Einstein, Quantum mechanics, my harmonica, my ID cards, my telephone, diaries, nail-clippers, pencil rubbers pens always scattered around, my files, CONCISE OXFORD Dictionary, a magnifying lens, my modem pack (without the modem of course, its in my computer), my computer (oh yes!! :D), some scraps of food, some ants (Shit!!),....
These are some of the things that i am currently seeing on my desk as i type this so you could imagine how nerdy I am :nerd: and so some nerdy girls out here would come and say "Hi nerdy boy" :nerd:
Yup nerds all around, :D
but wait
I think i read somewhre that nerds tend to be well dressed and tend to do repititive tasks such as routines properly, infact very properly. So that makes INTJs nerds, not us ... or is that so ? :nerd: :D

[BritainOphira]

If you'd look at my desk u'll find:...
These are some of the things that i am currently seeing on my desk as i type this so you could imagine how nerdy I am :nerd: and so some nerdy girls out here would come and say "Hi nerdy boy" :nerd:


:wub: Hi nerdy boy. *giggle fit*

[Johnny]

Aryan, are you a flatlander?

*noticing your location in two rather than three dimensions*

:sombrero:

[booyalab]

If being messy is an INTP quirk, why is my ESFJ mom the messiest one in my family and my INTP dad the cleanest.

[SensEye]

If being messy is an INTP quirk, why is my ESFJ mom the messiest one in my family and my INTP dad the cleanest.

You've got their types backwards?

[s]

Being a mom may put more pressure on her to be clean.

[booyalab]

If being messy is an INTP quirk, why is my ESFJ mom the messiest one in my family and my INTP dad the cleanest.

You've got their types backwards?

I wouldn't be the one that got their types backwards, 20 years ago when they took the test- both of them would have had to answer the exact opposite of what their preferences are for each question. If my dad is an ESFJ, I wonder if there are any other ESFJs out there that are electrical engineers with a physics major. I also wonder if there are any INTPs out there, like my mom..according to you...., who like to tell strangers their life story.

[MacGuffin]

If being messy is an INTP quirk, why is my ESFJ mom the messiest one in my family and my INTP dad the cleanest.

You've got their types backwards?

I wouldn't be the one that got their types backwards, 20 years ago when they took the test- both of them would have had to answer the exact opposite of what their preferences are for each question. If my dad is an ESFJ, I wonder if there are any other ESFJs out there that are electrical engineers with a physics major. I also wonder if there are any INTPs out there, like my mom..according to you...., who like to tell strangers their life story.
They might have just gotten their J/P preferences wrong. Or be weak in those areas and have "trained" themselves to the other preference.

[SensEye]

If being messy is an INTP quirk, why is my ESFJ mom the messiest one in my family and my INTP dad the cleanest.

You've got their types backwards?

I wouldn't be the one that got their types backwards, 20 years ago when they took the test- both of them would have had to answer the exact opposite of what their preferences are for each question. If my dad is an ESFJ, I wonder if there are any other ESFJs out there that are electrical engineers with a physics major. I also wonder if there are any INTPs out there, like my mom..according to you...., who like to tell strangers their life story.

Hmmm... In hindsight I guess I should have use a "wink" emoticon. :)

booyalab, I don't suppose people have ever accused you of having a tendency to take things a tad too seriously?

PS> Now give s hell, her response makes no sense whatsoever. :D

[booyalab]

If being messy is an INTP quirk, why is my ESFJ mom the messiest one in my family and my INTP dad the cleanest.

You've got their types backwards?

I wouldn't be the one that got their types backwards, 20 years ago when they took the test- both of them would have had to answer the exact opposite of what their preferences are for each question. If my dad is an ESFJ, I wonder if there are any other ESFJs out there that are electrical engineers with a physics major. I also wonder if there are any INTPs out there, like my mom..according to you...., who like to tell strangers their life story.

Hmmm... In hindsight I guess I should have use a "wink" emoticon. :)

booyalab, I don't suppose people have ever accused you of having a tendency to take things a tad too seriously?

PS> Now give s hell, her response makes no sense whatsoever. :D

Just because I don't like to use emoticons doesn't mean I'm not smiling on this side of the monitor. It's called having a 'dry' sense of humor. =P *winces at having to make an e-face*

Actually, for some reason it enhances my amusement when people think I'm being serious.

[booyalab]

If being messy is an INTP quirk, why is my ESFJ mom the messiest one in my family and my INTP dad the cleanest.

You've got their types backwards?

I wouldn't be the one that got their types backwards, 20 years ago when they took the test- both of them would have had to answer the exact opposite of what their preferences are for each question. If my dad is an ESFJ, I wonder if there are any other ESFJs out there that are electrical engineers with a physics major. I also wonder if there are any INTPs out there, like my mom..according to you...., who like to tell strangers their life story.
They might have just gotten their J/P preferences wrong. Or be weak in those areas and have "trained" themselves to the other preference.

I just think the tendency to be messy or clean is not as closely linked to type as it is commonly thought. My dad hardly has to make an effort to be clean. My mom has invested in tons of scheduling books and organizing guides. I'm pretty sure my mom, at least, doesn't have her J/P preference wrong. Her personality aligns much more closely to that of the Guardian temperament than the Artisan temperament. As far as my dad goes, his thought processes and opinions have more of an INTP quality in that it takes him a long time to make a decision because he wants to make sure it's his own, and I think he's much more open-minded about ideas and coming to conclusions than INTJs. I'm also an INTP, and I go through periods of being very clean. Although, I admit it's not always that important to me. About the tendency of INTPs to forget about their physical surroundings, I might do that while I'm concentrating on something, but if I'm looking for something I go on a virtual 3-D tour in my head of the place in which I'm looking so I tend to pay attention to the spatiality of my location...and this is how I remember where something is.

[Postblank]

So my keys and wallet are always in the last pair of pants I wore, that's about the extent of my organization abilities.I was always wondering if I had a twin brother. :hello:

[Ponderous]

If being messy is an INTP quirk, why is my ESFJ mom the messiest one in my family and my INTP dad the cleanest.

It's been a while since I read it, but doesn't the intp.org profile say that an INTP can sometimes be obsessive about cleanliness? (Germ factor)

If I'm misquoting, apologies all around.

[Aryan]

Booyalab if I were a flatlander, then how could I type the things u r seeing on this screen ?

Hey BritainOphira :wub:

I said already It's nerd all around !
:D :D :D

[booyalab]

Booyalab if I were a flatlander, then how could I type the things u r seeing on this screen ?



I'd love to take credit for Johnny's witty comments, but I'm afraid he said it.. not me.


Aryan, are you a flatlander?

*noticing your location in two rather than three dimensions*

:sombrero:

[Lucas]

the garage
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/nobarcode/garage.jpg

Of course, these are considered "projects" ;)

Hey nobarcode, I'm curious about your bikes. That's a Ducati on the right, right? Which model is it? What about the MX bike in the back and the other bikes?

I've got a YZ250F and a Buell X9BR.

Just curious,
-Lucas

[Aryan]

Err... Booyalab, not for you that was for Johnny
Well ...
If I were human then I had to make errors otherwise i would have been GOD

:cheers:

[Clara]

(In case anyone wanted something kinda like heeroyuy's "messy" (heero, monitors? as "mess?" aahhh... no.) desk. :) ;)

[Shai Gar]

I don't like it when my mom cleans up the dirthy laundry that was on my floor. why can't she just leave it the way it was? it's always eerie coming home to see my room appearing clean.
i hate that two, because i have papers EVERYWHERE including on the floor that have my ideas on them that i just scribble down and i just know mum put them in the bin because they "looked messy". thank god i moved out, now she cannot complain, supposedly. she still does.

[indie]

I wouldn't be the one that got their types backwards, 20 years ago when they took the test- both of them would have had to answer the exact opposite of what their preferences are for each question. If my dad is an ESFJ, I wonder if there are any other ESFJs out there that are electrical engineers with a physics major. I also wonder if there are any INTPs out there, like my mom..according to you...., who like to tell strangers their life story.

Maybe the people who gave the test to them accidentally switched their tests? You know, if they took it at the same time?

Re: the topic of this thread, yep, that's me. I love my little piles of projects/papers/ideas waiting to be completed. Except for the mound of papers that has to deal with the student loans. Ugh.

[joft]

This is me too, and this is one of the primary sources of stress in my life. My dad is an ISFJ neatnik, who also happens to be an (ex-)US marine.

edit: Just as an example, he threatens to throw all my clothes in the garbage if I leave them on the floor in my bedroom... I say, just shut my bedroom door if you don't want to see them

[Edmond Zedo]

Maybe the people who gave the test to them accidentally switched their tests? You know, if they took it at the same time?
Accidentally? But I think their type-interested kid would have figured it out. And the ESFJ looks it from the photo.

[indie]

I don't know . . haven't seen the pic, but an ESFJ with a degree in physics and who is an electrical engineer? The INTP mom who is a neat freak who likes to tell her life story to strangers? That just does not makes sense to me. And, of course, the type-interested kid would have figured it out, but if they have not taken the test in 20 years, you never know.

[Edmond Zedo]

Hehehehe...I believe you have their stories reversed. Really.

[ApeTheDog]

Yeah! The first time I read that paragraph, it brought a big smile to my face. That's exactly how I am. My room's a junkyard. And it's not just my room, it used to be my desk in school as well - and my pencil case, and my backpack too. Many are the times I didn't hand in my homework, not because I hadn't made it, but because I couldn't find it from between the hundreds of loose pages and books in my bag.

[matthew0028]

This is one point where my INT"J"ness shines. All of my item (books, games, music, homework, etc.) are all organized extensively. For example, my CDs are organized by genre, alphabet, and release date. My magazines are stored in boxes or tubs with indexing in: chronology, genre, and magazine title. Almost all of the items that I own are done in such a manner--each within their own respect. I use desks, shelves, closests, and the trusty garage for storage rather than the 'random piles' method.

However, I may be doing this to help me find items better when, if in fact I do, forget where they are. More than likely, it is a little bit of both.


I go through spurts. While the P is in control the clutter piles up and begins to take over. Then the J will drop in a few times a year and I clean/organize everything. Then the P returns and I never remember where I put everything. :ph34r:

I'm like this as well. Basically, I'll have piles all about (on my desks and on my floor), until things start getting too messy for me (i.e. I need desk space to work on homework, or hopping across my room becomes a pain) at which point I clean up while simultaneously meticulously organizing everything (ordering magazines by title and date, alphebetizing video games, organizing Magic cards by rarity, set, color, and alphabetically, etc.). So, basically, my room gets messier and messier, then I totally organize everything, at which point the process begins anew.

Though upon cleaning, I do really appreaciate the ability to walk across my room uncautiously in the dark. Fun stuff.

[Boneca]

When I was a kid, I could barely get inside my room without stepping on stuff, but it never bothered me (except the times when I broke things by stepping on them). However, when I got older I became a little bit more orderly.
I never keep stuff on the floor anymore, and I do actually get fits when I clean away everything.
And I file things. I can even file other people's things, just for the fun of it. I do have my CD collection in alphabetical order. And then some dirty dishes, a bunch of old letters and an empty chocolate box on the table next to it...:blink: Yeah, I am probably close to the J/P border.

By the way, that "I know in which pile it is" reasoning does not work if you have cats. In that case, the thing you were looking for is either moved to behind the bookcase, has been carefully pushed into that little space between the fridge and the wall or has simply been torn to shreds.

[melancholeric]

Whenever someone comments the mess, I say it's an experioment on the second law of thermodynamic.
(And I'm fully aware that the law would require a closed system, and my apartment is an open system. Indeed, the external energy has turned the organic waste into an experiment of evolutionary biology. I've seen some interesting new lifeforms in my kitchen.)

[jca]

My basic tendencies are to leave stuff lying around as per the thread subject. However, as I'm sure everyone here can attest, this is not neccessarily a positive thing in regards to cohabitating w/ other (ie wife/parent/etc).

I'm new to this but I can already see the temptation to use the INTP profile as a guide to behavior (ie I am INTP therefore I should do A). I think this is a mistake. The INTP profile does not define us, we define it, and I find that it's most useful as a tool to help recognize and understand when I'm doing something that may not be desireable.

So for now, I limit my messiness to a single work area and make a concious effort to keep the rest of the house clean and organized. It works wonders for domestic tranquility.

[matthew0028]

Not that it's the same issue, but since I'm currently in the "must clean house since it's school break and I have time" mode, I cleaned out my fridge today. Yuck. With 4 guys in the fridge, and the amazing ability for stuff to dissappear in the back of the fridge, I got to deal with a ton of moldy old food items. Blech.

Though I have never before appreciated the subtle wisdom of Weird Al Yankovic's song "Living in the Fridge" as much as I do now.

Blech.

[Boneca]

With 4 guys in the fridge, :rofl: Cut into pieces, I assume?

Sorry, I'm just in a goofy mood. Cleaning fridges is scary enough even without corpses.

[matthew0028]

er... :blush:

What I meant was, with four guys sharing the fridge...

Which, come to think of it, could mean the same thing...

Meh... it's way to late...or early as it were (5 AM)... to try to form coherant forum posts...

[BritainOphira]

And I file things. I can even file other people's things, just for the fun of it. I do have my CD collection in alphabetical order. And then some dirty dishes, a bunch of old letters and an empty chocolate box on the table next to it...:blink: Yeah, I am probably close to the J/P border.

I file things, too (not my own things, but I do file). And organize other people's notebooks. Of course that doesn't help me find my homework (thank you text books that double as notebooks once the binding is good and broken), but it is something to do.
Last year I organized almost every piece of equipment I had at school for science. I knew where everything was, it was great. I taped up all five boxes, labeled them clearly (in magic marker that said such lovely things like "touch and die!" or the ever clear "i will kill you if you break the seal."), but some freshman got a hold of them, took everything of value, threw the rest of the contents around the storage closet, and denied ever having been in the class room. Errr...
My book shelf is in pretty good shape, for the 'rents. The random "yay! christian! I heart Jesus!" books are displayed prominently on the top shelf, followed by F. Scott, numerous dictionaries and other books salvaged from yard sales and used books stores on the next shelf (nothing that would offend anyone). The bottom shelf is devoted to my primary school love of Nancy Drew. (The books I actually read, except F.Scott, live in the pile of crap on the floor. It's easier to find them that way.)

[athman]

I can't do the filing thing, it needs to be out there visually. If it is in a file it is gone forever from my memory. I worked at IBM a long time ago and they had a Clean Desk policy that drove me nuts. At the end of every day you had to file everything away into locked cupboards, ostensibly for security reasons. I would get clean desk violations from random checks by managers. I got good at jamming my layers of unorganised crap into cupboards every night and laying them back out the same way the next day. I could actually find things in these piles if I wanted to because it was in kind-of geological layers, whereas if I filed everything the way I was supposed I would never find anything.

[euterpenc]

Yep, my room's a general mess, and I hate when my mom cleans/moves things/tells me to put away my clothes. Even when I bring something new I bought I don't put it away, even if it were to belong in another room of the house. I cleaned my desk recently, to an almost empty state (it was filled with junk I didn't use/need) and sure enough, a week later it's cluttered again. This time with a stack of Nietzsche and Zen books. I would move them, if I knew I wouldn't need them later. If I know I need something I tend to not put it away, cause then I have to go somehwhere to put it away, then go back again to find it later. Maybe I'm just lazy.

Everything's in a pile, and even in the way sometimes. I have a weight set that I rarely use (I got to the gym) and it's sitting right in front of my closet, so I sort of have to step over it to access my wardrobe. I love being messy. And it's funny, cause one of my best friends, is obsessively compulsively organized. His whole room is catogorized, and he flips if i move anything out of it's place. When he comes over, and is trying to find something he can't find it, and he's like "Wtf Jon, I can't find anything in this mess. Why don't you clean up." I just respond with a "I don't feel like it" or "Eh, I have better things to do," which is true.

One last thing. I don't know if it's INTPs or what but I find I don't have enough "time" in the day. I'll go to school, come home, go to the gym, and hang out with my friends all before 6 o'clock then after dinner I'll play a game, time'll fly and then when I'm finished it's past my "bedtime" (10:00). But at this point, I realize, I feel like reading or writing or something, and I could stay up doing that, but my parents make me go to bed. Usually around 9 I'll start reading something on the internet about psychology or philosophy or somethin then get interested and want to continue. But somehow school is more important...

*new thread*

[Claverhouse]

...and used books stores on the next shelf (nothing that would offend anyone). The bottom shelf is devoted to my primary school love of Nancy Drew.

This conjunction is quite funny really.




Claverhouse :ph34r:

[BritainOphira]

This conjunction is quite funny really.




Claverhouse :ph34r:
I should learn to proof-read, but I'm lazy...

[Miss Anthropic]

I don't like it when my mom cleans up the dirthy laundry that was on my floor. why can't she just leave it the way it was? it's always eerie coming home to see my room appearing clean.
I kind of miss that....there is nobody to clean my house for me. Clutter abounds.

[Architectonic]

I just let the clutter build up until periodically when the junk becomes too large, I simply throw most of it out.

[waxwing]

It's funny. Imagine if we were all roommates?

In college, when I lived in an apartment with 3 others, I found that I tend to keep community space relatively clean, while my own personal space remains a major disaster area.

I think I know why. I hate when I leave a pile of papers, cds, books, maybe a coffee mug out in the living room only to return and find it moved. The cup in the sink, my papers straightened, my cds put in my cd case, books back on the shelf. Why? What is the point of that?

My bedroom looks fun. I've got a tall lamp (minus the shade) laying on my bed (the one I never sleep on), boxes of books and papers, a mattress on my floor, many many papers, disregarded mail, cds(some broken from when I step on them). Really, I sort of enjoy having to plan out my steps so that I don't get pierced with a thumbtack or step on the mirror that's just stuck in the middle of the floor for some reason. I even had to jump to my bed for a while. Now I've got the one on the floor. Makes for easy access.

If I lose something, I'll move clothes and papers around. But I've noticed that I'm usually correct about the general vicinity of the lost object. I know it's in this quadrant, for example. Or, it's near that dvd. If I can't find what I'm looking for, I figure that it must be in my car, the abyss.

My SJ mother....wow. She used to pick up my stuff. When she realized that it took me longer to sort through "junk" that she moved, she backed off a bit.

[Ka.avik]

I hate when I leave a pile of [...] out in the living room only to return and find it moved.

Nailed it one, WaxWing. Golden rule in action.

And while I make sure the walk-ways can always be walked upon without gymnastics, they have on occasion become circuititious. Until I complete some project that uses parts from the pile...

I just got a couch. It's still sitting, a week later, tucked against a corner. I mean, I could sit on it...but I'd facing a wall that's scrunching up my toes...

Likewise, the "I know what quadrant it's in...unless it's still in the car" thing is
right on.

[sowega]

Cleanliness is something that is either innate or learned, and sometimes -both. In MY case it is LEARNED. I am a strong INTP and used to be quite messy as with most stereotypical INTPs, but gradually became a fairly clean person as my ISTJ mom really engraved it into my head to be clean and organized.

Now that I have been living with my INTJ hubby for more than five years, I have discovered that the only thing that really causes me to get annoyed with him is when he keeps on nagging me about being clean and organized. He is well aware that I am not as messy and disorganized as some INTP-type people, but for his standards it doesn't cut it. Nothing well be more aggravating than having my hubby each time remind me of the food that I have spilled over the plate each time I eat my dinner; or each time I forget to wipe my feet when I take off my shoes and come into the house. My INTJ husband also gets very irritated if I either misplace a certain object or if it not placed in the place where he thinks it should be. He will often say things like, "Oh why are the socks on the top drawer --they don't belong there, they are supposed to go in the bottom drawer"; or "How could you make such a mess, how is it that your family hasn't raised you like the way my mom did to me?" I will often either ignore him, or if he gets irratating enough I'll just say, "Alright quit the nagging!"

Not to get me wrong, we are both very similar when it come to behavior and personality and we get along extremely well at least 99% of the time, but it is just his Jness like his cleanliness and impatience with the abstract world that makes him markebly different from my more laid back and easy going Pness, and my intensive philosophical mind.

Or is it just me or is it that INTJs are often obsessive with cleanliness and organization?

INTP; 5w6 SX :sobs:

[PiccoloNamek]

No, I'm not really like that at all. My room is very clean and everything has its place. You've all seen the picture of my room a million times. You know.

[Eileen]

I actually have this tendency (to clutter surfaces up and forget about it for awhile) but I also feel very claustrophobic if I'm surrounded by clutter. This is why, every so often and especially when I'm stressed out, I will go on a psychotic cleaning spree.

[MySavior]

I notice INFJs have a very real tendency to be messy. "I want to clean, but I just don't have time. I'm telling you, I'm a neat freak, you just can't see that right now" - an INFJ. It usually happens when they are over worked (which is quite often).

As for me, I'm like some above. I am naturally messy, but after years of living with an ISTJ mother and the constant bickering (because of my mess), I am now not messy. That is, I'm not meticulously clean; however, if you enter my room, its spotless. I have also found it, as of late, to be unable to work in an environment thats too messy. That is actually freaking me out. But I have also discovered that its not the mess of the area directly, but the fact that it takes a lot away from openness. I notice a significant improvement in my mental state when I minimize the number of items in my rooms. I hate cleaning, so I just don't mess anything up.

[deus.ex.machina]

Quoting http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html#SI describing introverted sensing of INTPs:

"When an object is put aside, not to be returned to for a while, it will lie fully ignored until used again. Objects which lie unmoved for more than about 48 hours usually become invisible to the INTP, until such time as he has a use for them again. For other temperaments whose need for tidiness and order in a house is strong, this lack of concern in this area may seem despairing. For the INTP, however, no problem exists. Corners of rooms, table tops and cupboards may become cluttered with objects, but while they don't move they remain effectively invisible and are unimportant."

Does anyone else do this too? I'm looking around my room right now noticing all the seperate but organized piles of junk laying around that I'd forgotten about for weeks. :huh:


-lucas

I actually realized that I do this, so I spent the last several weeks creating a filing system for the vast quanity of unrelated data I had lying around. I completed this project several days ago and my room is already littered with folders and papers. Fuck. Well at least it's a bit more organized!

[deus.ex.machina]

I actually have this tendency (to clutter surfaces up and forget about it for awhile) but I also feel very claustrophobic if I'm surrounded by clutter. This is why, every so often and especially when I'm stressed out, I will go on a psychotic cleaning spree.


This describes me to a T.


My mom is an INFJ, but she is perpetually cleaning; it's extremely annoying.

[Enigma]

My house looks like Oscar and Felix live there, and usually it looks like Oscar is winning by a landslide. Usually most flat surfaces are piled in stuff and there are more piles on the floor. All of my desks (3) are always covered. The one with the newer computer consists of a rectangular table that has been expanded with another similar table at right angles to it that also adjoins to the (former) kitchen table. The stuff just seems to spread. Periodically it gets bad enough that I start to feel overwhelmed and can't find things; then the cleaning and organization kicks in.

I have tried to create various systems to deal with things like paying the bills, yet each one seems to get me farther behind than the tried and true "they're really starting to pile up.........I should do something about that" method.

I have been known to alphabetize thing such as canned goods, and to have meticulously organized drawers and closets on occasion....even down to matching hangers........if you could just find a path to the damn closet~

I like a clean house but I get absolutely no satisfaction in making it become that way, and I keep way too much stuff that "might be useful someday". But I don't want anyone else to touch it either, because then I couldn't find anything or they might throw something out. Fortunately I live alone.