NTs and making music

[deus ex machina]

I am quite curious as to why I never find music as a field common to NTs. Music is a very complex system and not well understood system - thus it seems to follow that it would be a field common to NT's - yet I rarely find composers listed as NTs. Beethoven, for example - horrible personal life, took extremely experimental approaches to producing music, had a rather abstract belief system (generally described as athiest, or panthiest), had a system of composing that looked messy at first, but the final result of his efforts were always quite obviously excellent. Look at the ground breaking approaches to music others such as Wagner, Lizst and Debussy took to the compositional process, it just seems very NT to me.

Creating the motor skills to master tools, for instance, I always viewed as an abstract system in the physical sense. This, to me, is something intrinsically tied to the mind. Complex motor skills require years of purposively and complex thought and action to create. Perhaps I just find myself more of a hands on kind of person, but I always find myself wanting to create music rather than just listening to it. Due to my quest for perfection I spend several hours everyday studying theory, composing, practicing, sight signing, ear training etc. in my quest for artistic perfection and mastery of the domain of music (I am generally more of an INTJ though, although I get pretty variable results on thest tests suggesting something of an INxx nature, so maybe I just see things differently).

[kendoiwan]

it's what I do...

[last_caress]

I make breakcore, which I will post when I am satisfied with it.

I never got better than being able to play slayer on the guitar and rock on the drums, however with computer music one is freed from the limitations imposed by ones motor skills and allows sounds and compositions previously impossible with ordinary instrumentation.

[Serotonin]

The gifted ability to have your fingers just go to the right places is an interesting idea. As far as writing music, such as working out chord progressions, structure, rhythm and whatnot, I find comes quite easily to me. It's the implementation i.e. playing it faultlessly.... conveying that music in the real world that I have trouble with. You've kinda got to get "into the zone" while you're playing and just ride on instinct rather than being conscious of what you're playing, if you get my drift. Maybe it's a right-brain thing, and the moment you start employing your left-brain you start to fuck up.
Sight-reading I always thought of as a more S-based method, and playing by ear I always thought of as a more N-based method.

[deus ex machina]

The gifted ability to have your fingers just go to the right places is an interesting idea. As far as writing music, such as working out chord progressions, structure, rhythm and whatnot, I find comes quite easily to me. It's the implementation i.e. playing it faultlessly.... conveying that music in the real world that I have trouble with. You've kinda got to get "into the zone" while you're playing and just ride on instinct rather than being conscious of what you're playing, if you get my drift. Maybe it's a right-brain thing, and the moment you start employing your left-brain you start to fuck up.
Sight-reading I always thought of as a more S-based method, and playing by ear I always thought of as a more N-based method.

I usually get in the same mode in that I am always comming up with new progressions and melodic ideas, but actually following threw with them tends to be a chore, although I do have a shitload of original acoustic/vocal songs and quite alot of finale orchestration scores. I do have a problem with conveying these songs in a social setting. I am currently learning moonlight sonata on the piano, and I have a good portion of it down by memory. Even though I can sight read and play it half assedly I generally do the best memorizing it rather than playing it by score so as to be able to play it automatically from memory.

I also feel my greatest musical gift I have always been blessed with is my ability to improvise. I can figure out pretty much any melody by ear and can jump into any jam session and rip pretty well, but I have a problem performing material I haven't internalized to the point of being to play it automatically. I definetely think my greatest strength is being able to hear every improved phrase before I play it and having the ability to play whatever I am thinking. Intuition has definetely blessed me in that aspect.

[Ella]

I taught music for three years at a university. I only did minor composing, mostly I did arranging.

[Pooja]

I've been playing the piano for the last 12 years. I don't think I'm naturally gifted at making music though...

[Umbrosia]

I've been playing music since I was three, eventually gaining proficiency in about dozen instruments. Somewhere along the line I lost interest in being as skilled as possible on a single instrument and I would hop to another, I think I moved horizontally because I didn't see the point of spending all that time honing a skill that would decay over time anyway, too mortal. I went for a broad, whole understanding of music and now I pretty much only compose and teach. I approach composition architecturally I'd like to think, as in I design and build music very systematically. Maybe it is just our differing experience with other people but I have the impression that a lot of NT's are into making music.

[lexiphanic]

I'm planning on making as much music as I can pretty soon now. I'm setting up the optimal environment, and then I plan on playing hard.

Not sure what I'll be able to do with it, but I *really* enjoy figuring out how to make up messed up sounds with my software synthesizers.

[last_caress]

I'm planning on making as much music as I can pretty soon now. I'm setting up the optimal environment, and then I plan on playing hard.

Not sure what I'll be able to do with it, but I *really* enjoy figuring out how to make up messed up sounds with my software synthesizers.

I like soft synths, but I really prefer twiddling the knobs by hand.
I plan on picking up an Access Virus C desktop sometime next month.

Good production is much more challenging than I ever imagined.

[last_caress]

it's what I do...

What kind?

[TelecomClone]

I have always wanted to try music-making, but have not as of yet had occasion to pick up any equipment. Synth and software based music, though, because a) I have no patience whatsoever for repetitively training my muscle memory to play something like a guitar, and b) because it seems like a person has so much more creative freedom by him or herself when working in the synthetic environment.

[htb]

Three of the NTs I know, two of them among my closest friends, are accomplished musicians -- and uniformly prefer composition to performance.

[earwax]

Majored in music... Spend most of my musical time these days in live performance - primarily accompanying other people. Not real interested in being center stage.

Also have a home studio, where I spend most of my time engineering other people's projects. Don't seem to have any desire to actually record my own stuff - go figure.

[Nemesis]

The two best musicians that I know personally are both INTJ's. One is my Orchestra director and a professional pianist, the other is a friend of mine who was recently accepted to the Curtis Institute in Philadelphia as a cellist. Other than that, it depends on the type of music. Certain music strikes me as NF friendly (such as Romantic Era music) and other music strikes me as NT friendly (such as Baroque and Classical Era music. Structuring music isn't that hard, it just requires a grasp of theory, which, of course, is the forte (pardon the pun) of most N's in general.

[euterpenc]

I know NTs who are good at music. However, Music requires a lot of effort and dedication: neither of which I have enough of to feed more than a small ant colony.

[azurwarrior]

I had an intense dream of becoming a famous drummer.
( I also knew I really wanted to be a writer, but I wanted to persue a music career so I wouldn't have to look back on my life and wonder what might have been If Only).
In high school, I used to daydream vividly of being behind a drum set playing music in a band. (Especially in algebra class, which I hated anyway). Nothing else mattered. So, I went very far very fast. I did not even own a drum set to practice on till I was 16 years old.
But I knew what to do bacause I HAD "DONE" IT SO MANY TIMES in my mind.
How INTP that was, in retrospect.
At 17, I entered Berklee College of Music as a Percussion Principal.
I completed 2 years there. My teacher wanted me go to New York City and play free jazz (especially was my interest).
My technique was not the greatest, but I had such creative ideas that he felt my lack of extreme formal technique would not be a great obstacle.
I had a chance to break into the New York jazz scene (which is incredibly advanced and accomplished ansd of course, competetive).
I didn't go. I very rarely play now, 25 years later.
The music Biz demands way, way too much forced and unescapable socialing for my inclination. I hadn't thought of those realities -of the music business and not being an extravert
It was so hard trying to meet people, chit chat and small-talk all the time with band members between sets and after rehearsals and the audience, sometimes, too.
That was TORTURE.
One man had prophetically said point blank to me, at 16, that "It must be hard for you being an introverted drummer!"
I felt so ashamed and exposed!
I burnt myself out doing drinks and drugs to cope and feel ok.
Recently, I bought a Fender Jazz Bass that just sits there. I used to play a little bass. I have no ambitions in that regards, though. It reminds me of good times and looks good and will eventually have value as a collectors item, I tell myself. It's an investment for the future.
So, it stays. LOL.
BTW, my interest was in popular music and jazz and latin and jazz-rock fusion. I always hated classical music. Anyway, I actually studied with a former drummer with Weather Report (Skip Hadden-an INCREDIBLE drummer and mentor). (He was their Mysterious Traveller and played with another drummer on that album).
I was always pretty much ok one on one. But NOT groups. Once the music was over, I usually just wanted to go home.
I listen to a little Debussy and Ravel and Bartok. Otherwise, I have always has a strange aversion to classical music and violins that I attribute to past-life influences. I can't figure it out so it must be something irrational, anyway.

[Snowflake]

Structuring music isn't that hard, it just requires a grasp of theory, which, of course, is the forte (pardon the pun) of most N's in general.Music isn't theory, music is fucking MUSIC, dammit.

If it sounds good, it is good, fuck theory.

[azurwarrior]

Theory is a means to an end, and that's all. The end being music itself, IMO.

[KuJo]

Music isn't theory, music is fucking MUSIC, dammit.

If it sounds good, it is good, fuck theory.

you must like techno jam bands.

[Nemesis]

Music isn't theory, music is fucking MUSIC, dammit.

If it sounds good, it is good, fuck theory.
Music is more than what comes out of your speakers[, Hell even the Beatles noticed that]. Unless, of course, ya know, you like shitty techno.

[Snowflake]

What is jazz? Improvisation?

[Nemesis]

What is jazz? Improvisation?
ROFL :rofl:
Jazz is one of the most theory ridden branches of music!

[Snowflake]

Jazz is one of the most theory ridden branches of music!Not really.

[Nemesis]

Not really.
You're an idiot. Don't argue about stuff you obviously know nothing about.

[Snowflake]

You're an idiot. Don't argue about stuff you obviously know nothing about.Likewise.

[azurwarrior]

Jazz is one of the most theory ridden branches of music!


Really? Forgive my ignorance. I didn't know that.
So, what, exactly, does "theory ridden" mean?
"Branches of music," likewise....?
And just how does this relate to jazz, more than any other music? :sadbanana:
I have never come across these terms myself, although I have played and listened to a lot of jazz music.
Please do elaborate.

[Nemesis]

Really? Forgive my ignorance. I didn't know that.
So, what, exactly, does "theory ridden" mean?
"Branches of music," likewise....?
And just how does this relate to jazz, more than any other music? :sadbanana:
I have never come across these terms myself, although I have played and listened to a lot of jazz music.
Please do elaborate.
The writers of jazz had to have a good grasp of theory to make the music that they did. It was riddled with extremely complex rythms, chords, melodies and harmonies. It was the first branch of music (music genre), I'm fairly sure, to have augmented chords be commonplace, (I'm fairly sure). I've played jazz as well, and yes, some improvisation is part of it (such as playing straight 8th notes with a swing), but not as much as you might think. Snowflake here simply talks out of his ass [all the time] and expects us all to think his shit smells like roses.

[Conan]

I was my high school's jazz band string bass player

[Nemesis]

I was my high school's jazz band string bass player
Lucky you. Our school won't let classical strings players into the band. :sadbanana:

[Snowflake]

I always assumed music theory was the ability to recongize the different characteristics (tempo, rhythm, consonance, shit like that).

Having had taken a music class in university, this coincides with what I learned.

But the ability to produce music does not require theory. Anyone can learn to play a guitar without ever reading a book on notation. Will it do you much good? Perhaps not. But to the layman it doesn't matter, hence my stance that music is not theory.

I'll admit, there are DJs out there who know little about music theory, and can't play any instruments. But they can make music using existing recordings and turn it into something totally new and different. It is still music in the end.

I never claimed to be an expert, but then are most people who can play an instrument experts? No, because they don't need to be.

As far as I'm concerned, the academics who tell you music is about theory are quassi-intellectuals who enjoy devouring oranges merely for the sake of rendering orange juice, and at that, they take the pulp with them! Surely, there is a great deal of intellectual aspect to the music, but if you deny the other aspects, I'll be happy to call you insane.

Anyway, there are popular techno artists such as Aphex Twin who don't rely on traditional music theory to make music. And they are quite popular and well known for their work. It is not crap. They are highly influential groups, and they became that way because they did what they wanted, not what some music theory teacher told them sounds "good."

[Snowflake]

Snowflake here simply talks out of his ass [all the time] and expects us all to think his shit smells like roses.You should take a moment and realize you're not the fucking supreme being of the universe yourself, asshole.

[Nemesis]

You should take a moment and realize you're not the fucking supreme being of the universe yourself, asshole.
Exactly why I don't constantly talk out of my ass and expect everyone to think my shit smells like roses.

[Snowflake]

Exactly why I don't constantly talk out of my ass and expect everyone to think my shit smells like roses.You idiot.

[Nemesis]

I always assumed music theory was the ability to recongize the different characteristics (tempo, rhythm, consonance, shit like that).
Yes, but not instinctively.

Having had taken a music class in university, this coincides with what I learned.
What kind of music class?

But the ability to produce music does not require theory.
I never said it did.

Anyone can learn to play a guitar without ever reading a book on notation. Will it do you much good? Perhaps not. But to the layman it doesn't matter, hence my stance that music is not theory.
Music is music, music theory is the THEORY that goes into how music is created, not what music is, despite the fact that there's already a definition of what music is.

I'll admit, there are DJs out there who know little about music theory, and can't play any instruments. But they can make music using existing recordings and turn it into something totally new and different. It is still music in the end.
Yes, music is music. A strong grasp of theory makes music composition, including DJing, alot easier, but DJing is not music composition, it's musical improvisation and innovation. Do you honestly think Beethoven would have written what he did if he didn't know any music theory?

I never claimed to be an expert, but then are most people who can play an instrument experts? No, because they don't need to be.
The players of music? No, you're absolutely right, they don't need to be. The composers of new music (not DJ's), They sure do.

As far as I'm concerned, the academics who tell you music is about theory are quassi-intellectuals who enjoy devouring oranges merely for the sake of rendering orange juice, and at that, they take the pulp with them! Surely, there is a great deal of intellectual aspect to the music, but if you deny the other aspects, I'll be happy to call you insane.
The people who study music theory aren't saying that music is theory, they are trying to better understand what makes music enjoyable, and what goes into the creation of music.

Anyway, there are popular techno artists such as Aphex Twin who don't rely on traditional music theory to make music. And they are quite popular and well known for their work. It is not crap. They are highly influential groups, and they became that way because they did what they wanted, not what some music theory teacher told them sounds "good."
The fact that they are popular and highly influential has nothing to do with it. Folk tunes that are passed down from generation to generation sound good, and are obviously popular. Did the people who first created the melodies know anything about music theory? No. Besides that, the people you refer to aren't composers, they are DJ's, who happen to be good at mixing music. They don't understand theory because they don't need to. They don't need to because they aren't creating new music, just different takes on existing music. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

[azurwarrior]

What is jazz? Improvisation?


That question is much more complex than it might seem at first.
I think yes, jazz is especially characterized by the use of improvisation.
First and foremost, that stands out.
But, of course, Jazz is much more. It is a truly American art form,
developed by African-Americans, mostly.
For instance, the polyrhythms often heard have their roots in the traditional music and drumming of Western Africa.
There are "standard songs" there are more typical time signatures and melodic/harmonic considerations used more frequently, such as the V-VII-I chord progression (the "amen" chorus that you hear in church hymns).
There are also "call and response" patterns that have their origins in songs slaves used to do working out in the fields to keep going.
These are lasting testaments of courage and triumph in unimaginably difficult circumstances.
BTW, There are many very successful (and paid) classical musicians who are nevertheless completely stymied if asked to improvise.
One other thing. I know I'm going to get jumped on for this, but I think Hip Hop is the new jazz because of the use of improvisation.
These are a few thoughts on this topic. Glad you asked.
Anyone else?

[Snowflake]

They don't need to because they aren't creating new music, just different takes on existing music.A DJ is quite capable of creating new music, entirely from existing music. Ever heard of sampling and dubs?
Sorry, but that's the way it is.Theory is theory, it is not reality. Theory is not the way it is, reality is. And the reality is theory is irrelevant.

[Nemesis]

such as the V-VII-I chord progression (the "amen" chorus that you hear in church hymns).
Nah. That's traditional harmonic chord progression. I was always taught that Plagal (IV-I) was what characterized church music. For instance, the beatles used the Plagal cadence all the time, and until people get the deeper meaning of their songs that use them, they often assume they are religious, such as the song "Let It Be" Which is riddled with them.

[Nemesis]

A DJ is quite capable of creating new music, entirely from existing music.
No, otherwise they wouldn't be DJing. It's not entirely new music. It's mixes of existing music.

Ever heard of sampling and dubs?
Yes. I have. Why do you ask? They don't prove your point, they support mine.

Theory is theory, it is not reality. Theory is not the way it is, reality is. And the reality is theory is irrelevant.
You are an iNtuitive right?

[MacGuffin]

For instance, the beatles used the Plagal cadence all the time, and until people get the deeper meaning of their songs that use them, they often assume they are religious, such as the song "Let It Be" Which is riddled with them.
Or it might be that the song contains lyrics like these:


When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness
She is standing right in front of me
Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.

[Nemesis]

Or it might be that the song contains lyrics like these:
Yeah. The song was written about his mother. Her name was Mary.

[Snowflake]

You are an iNtuitive right?Yes, and I stand by what I say. The theory is irrelevant to the process of making the music.

[Nemesis]

Yes, and I stand by what I say. The theory is irrelevant to the process of making the music.
Then in that case, you either are talking specifically about the genre of DJing, which involves preexisting music, or you're just mad that you're wrong.

[Snowflake]

I'm not wrong.

[Nemesis]

Yes. You are. Tough. Deal.

[Snowflake]

Nope, sorry.

[Nemesis]

Oh really? Prove me wrong.

[azurwarrior]

[QUOTE=Nemesis]Nah. That's traditional harmonic chord progression. I was always taught that Plagal (IV-I) was what characterized church music.


Maybe you're right. It's been awhile.

[Nemesis]

Maybe you're right. It's been awhile.
No biggie. I got the point of your post, and I agree.

[Snowflake]

Oh really? Prove me wrong.There is nothing to prove, it's opinion, duh.

[Nemesis]

There is nothing to prove, it's opinion, duh.
*Annoying Buzzer*. Ask your music teacher.

[Snowflake]

*Annoying Buzzer*. Ask your music teacher.Of course she'd say it is wrong, because she wouldn't have my opinion, dipshit. Ask any academic that, and they'll probably agree. Academics aren't known for their ability to apply to reality what they know. They love theory.

[MacGuffin]

Yeah. The song was written about his mother. Her name was Mary.
And everyone is supposed to know that? The lyrics scream "religion".

[Nemesis]

And everyone is supposed to know that? The lyrics scream "religion".
...That's exactly what I said.

[Nemesis]

Of course she'd say it is wrong, because she wouldn't have my opinion, dipshit. Ask any academic that, and they'll probably agree. Academics aren't known for their ability to apply to reality what they know. They love theory.
You're retarded. Here. (http://encyclopedia.com/html/t/theory.asp) Educate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_theory) yourself.


Music theory is a field of study that describes the elements of music and includes the development and application of methods for analyzing and composing music

[MacGuffin]

...That's exactly what I said.
No you said it was the chord progression, I said it was the lyrics.

[Nemesis]

No you said it was the chord progression, I said it was the lyrics.
Well I meant both contributed, but I guess I failed to mention that part.

[Snowflake]

You're retarded. Here. (http://encyclopedia.com/html/t/theory.asp)

cognitive systems to be used as a tool for comprehending musical compositionsWhich has NO relevance to making music at all.


Educate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_theory) yourself.

Music theory is a field of study that describes the elements of music and includes the development and application of methods for analyzing and composing music

Wikipedia is bullshit. But anyway, Music Theory does NOT have to be used to compose music, that is crap. You can make music without using "music theory." Duh.

[Nemesis]

Which has NO relevance to making music at all.



Wikipedia is bullshit. But anyway, Music Theory does NOT have to be used to compose music, that is crap. You can make music without using "music theory." Duh.
If you honestly believe that than you are a fucking idiot, and you're really trying my patience. I don't want to be pissed off on Easter, so after I talk about it with my MT teacher tomorrow, I'll continue to make you look like an idiot, because you seem to enjoy it, as you keep persisting with your idiotic assertions.

[Snowflake]

If you honestly believe that than you are a fucking idiot, and you're really trying my patience. I don't want to be pissed off on Easter, so after I talk about it with my MT teacher tomorrow, I'll continue to make you look like an idiot, because you seem to enjoy it, as you keep persisting with your idiotic assertions.I will also keep persisting, because I have my fucking opinion, and I'm not changing it. You're such a dumbass, just give up. Nobody is going to budge, especially with your closed minded attitude. I frankly would never want to listen to a single thing you would ever play, it mustn't be very good. All that theory has gone to your damn head.

[Nemesis]

*sigh* I'll fetch RiverCrow. I'll see what she knows.

[Not that it would do much. You act just like a cult member. You're made to feel persecuted, which only makes you more stubborn. Such a shame, because you seem like you've got the ability to understand stuff, you're just too god damned stubborn to see what's right in front of your nose. Oh well. Please return to your normally scheduled turd-dropping style of posting. Don't let me get in the way.]

[Mr. Beef]

NTs and making music


I make music EVERY night......

unfortunately it's always a solo performance....:(

[dubbeltop]

Since i have a somewhat short attention span music just fills the gap between boredom and utter extascy. And i think some musicians should get a noble prize for there compositions and if I had my choice music would be nr2 but ?ts more the singing that is so great for releasing frustration so that is the ultimate nr1.yeah baby rock and rock and the 60ths . Just love peace and hapiness............

edit : I love film/music and jazz but new jazz and brazillian bossa nova

Its got to swing like hell also frank sinatra/johny cash

instruments:piano, saxaphone and the electrical guitar ,violin(!)

BTW im so a-muscial but the sheer power of words and sound are inescapably important too life and understand my deepest feelings.

more edit: listen too Ed Lincoln and Ennio Morricone

anyway sometimes i think I can talk better through music/songs that with actual speech.

[azurwarrior]

A mathmatical analysis of Thelonius Monk's music might suggest calculations of advanced physics...
And you can dance to it on the bridge (pun intended) to extascy.

[last_caress]

http://www.iwasdoingallright.com/improv/118/


There are several legendary players who never learned how to read music (examples: Erroll Garner, Wes Montgomery), and there are several who were pro-level players before they learned how to read music (example: Dave Brubeck), and many others who knew little or no theory (example: Percy Heath), and even more who know less than the average jazz studies major. If these great players didn't rely upon theory, then how did they know what to play? They used their ears! Every great jazz musician MUST have the ability to play by ear. Theory is a great add-on skill that can complement and improve upon one's natural talents, but it isn't essential.

If theory ISN'T essential, but being able to play by ear IS essential, then why do so many jazz educators and aspiring musicians devote most of their time to theory? And more importantly, why isn't the ability to play by ear emphasized as a must-have skill for jazz musicians. Well, I've got a theory about this (ha! You had to know that was coming…).

I'm not opposed to theory, but it isn't necessary. Of course I'm probably a bit biased being a by ear player.

[Nemesis]

http://www.iwasdoingallright.com/improv/118/



I'm not opposed to theory, but it isn't necessary. Of course I'm probably a bit biased being a by ear player.
We weren't arguing about it being necessary in order to play, we were arguing about it being relevant to the composition of music.

[rivercrow]

*sigh* I'll fetch RiverCrow. I'll see what she knows.

[Not that it would do much. You act just like a cult member. You're made to feel persecuted, which only makes you more stubborn. Such a shame, because you seem like you've got the ability to understand stuff, you're just too god damned stubborn to see what's right in front of your nose. Oh well. Please return to your normally scheduled turd-dropping style of posting. Don't let me get in the way.]

Erm...yes, Nemesis? How can I help you?

It's been a while since I played Western classical music, and I haven't been following this thread closely.

I noodle with a variety of instruments, and my fiddle-playing at this point sounds like Sherlock Holmes doing opium-inspired Rromany improv.

I can tell you Cage is sweet live, tarab is an amazing experience, and drum & didj circles are great fun. But all that is probably off-topic, eh?

[Nemesis]

Erm...yes, Nemesis? How can I help you?

It's been a while since I played Western classical music, and I haven't been following this thread closely.

I noodle with a variety of instruments, and my fiddle-playing at this point sounds like Sherlock Holmes doing opium-inspired Rromany improv.

I can tell you Cage is sweet live, tarab is an amazing experience, and drum & didj circles are great fun. But all that is probably off-topic, eh?
Lol. Very.

[last_caress]

We weren't arguing about it being necessary in order to play, we were arguing about it being relevant to the composition of music.

That it's relevant is a given. That it is necessary for the composition of coherent complex pieces of music is not.

[Nemesis]

That it's relevant is a given.
Try telling that to flaky.

That it is necessary for the composition of coherent complex pieces of music is not.
Tell that to Bach, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Shastakovich, Mozart, Gershwin and all the composers of pop music for the likes of Britney Spears and all other popular musicians who don't write their own music.

[azurwarrior]

[QUOTE=azurwarrior]A mathmatical analysis of Thelonius Monk's music might suggest calculations of advanced physics.

For instance: calculate polyrythms, explore bending time,

Thelonius Monk wanted to study classical music. No one would let him, because
he was black!