IXXP: Need Help Here

[Iyan]

Okay, let me tell you about what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to find out if I am an S or N type, basically. But this is my description of myself:

I tend to be absent-minded, but I go back and forth between the imaginary world and the real world so that I know what I'm doing or so that I don't run into things. But when I do something that gives me sensory experience, such as playing computer games, or sports, I'm focused. With my mind tending to drift when I'm not doing anything fun (and I start thinking about some abstract topics or some concrete activities, something interesting to think about while passing the time), it could be either be a defense mechanism that I have developed in school to pass the boring hours of endless lecturing (I usually would draw in class, but my drawings could be confiscated, so I could get away with daydreaming), or it could be a totally natural thing for me to do, so I retreat back into my shell, so to speak. Which of these is true, I am not certain. (The longer I have fun, the more I'm observant. This means that if I play all day, I will be observant all day long. I tend to prefer seeking stimulation over daydreaming, but I still need to reflect quite frequently.) Don't know what type this could be, as I'm of unknown type, namely Keirsey Temperament Sorter IXXP. I could be ISTP/INTP/ISFP/INFP. I analyzed this to an insane extent (over the course of a few months since I've began analyzing myself) and I'm stumped. If I'm an S, why do I tend to daydream? If I'm an N, why do I seek out sensory thrills? I did read the protraits in Keirsey's "Please Understand Me II" and the ISTP protrait does fit me the best, with ISFP maybe coming next, and then INTP and INFP, and the same holds true for typelogic's protraits, but I still have my doubts, because I'm pretty much non-observant and quite reflective, though I do prefer to seek stimulation over daydreaming, like the Artisan-SPs do.

Another thing that stumps me is...

I am very mechanically inclined (as well as being visually and spatially inclined for imagining (imagining things visually and spatially seems to be an attribute for N types)), for a few seconds, how a machine could work before proceeding to fix the problem, and I like to play certain types of games, like chess (chess is more of an NT pasttime than an SP pasttime) and maybe solve puzzles. I like to use my head to figure things out like these. These are T-type attributes, and I have a T-approach to doing these kinds of things.

However, I tend to be sensitive towards the feelings of people at the same time, being afraid to hurt them, an F-type attribute. Other F-type attributes that I have are the tendency to take criticism personally, and I tend to be a hot head by nature, being reactive to criticism or insults. Though I do know that criticism can be helpful, I can still be a little-to-moderately hurt by it.

So I'm a T when it comes to dealing with THINGS, but an F when I deal with PEOPLE.

Maybe you guys can help me?

[Edmond Zedo]

Did you take the Temperament Sorter? It's one of the better tests. Try the descriptions on typelogic.com as well. You sound like a lot of INFPs, imo.

[Magajy]

I am an IxTP that has settled for ISTP; though I consider myself to have a really strong N.

So I will only speak on S/N and not T/F.

I am quite a reflective person too, I can drift so much into though that I can and frequently am oblivious to the world around me. This is especially true while analysing something really inetersting or when with people that are dead boring (ie to me). But I read somewhere that when we're trying to figure out our types, we should use our "home mode" and not "work mode", as this could have been influenced by lots of things. And keep in mind a S with strong N, can even appear to have a stronger N sometimes, due to help form Ti-Se axis.

A simple question? When with close friends/colleagues do you do lots of care free physical stuff, jumping aroud ie sensory stuff, or do you just feel free to talk and still stay collected?

If you do sensory stuff then their is a strong likelyhood you are ISxP. Though both INTP's and ISTP's all feel greatly at ease with close firends/family. INTP's don't generally like "rough" play, they prefer to indulge in the act of telling you all that has been on their might since they last spoke, whereas ISTP's will jump, kick, and mess around to satisfy their senses.

All this is my opinion, though and I can'yt say much on F's, as I am too much of a T....? But i think it can tell you where you incline.

[waxwing]

Hey, Iyan.

I'm pretty sure Ss daydream too. It's got to be like a nearly universal human experience. What are your daydreams like? Do you daydream about things happening differently in your life? Events and people? Or do you more often daydream in images, tangential ideas, and snapshots?

You said you like stimulation better than daydreaming. Are you referring to sensory activities here? What specifically are some of your hobbies? Describe the time you were most satisyingly stimulated.

As far as Ns seeking out sensory thrills, it's possible. I'm a thrill-seeking, impulsive N.

*edit.* Just saw your addition. I don't think what you described sounds necessarily F. I know a lot of Ts who are sensitive to criticism, but might try not to show it.


Which of these orders seems best?
ISTP - Ti, Se, Ni, Fe
ISFP - Fi, Se, Ni, Te
INFP - Fi, Ne, Si, Te
INTP - Ti, Ne, Si, Fe

[Neppy]

You sound like an INFP to me.

Intuitives can seek sensory thrills too. We still sense things. It's just not what we use to gain information or understand it. Intuitives are more "big picture" people, they see the forest first, before they can see the trees.

But thinkers can be sensitive towards the emotional needs of others too. I'm a very, very strong T, but I'm not utterly oblivious to the emotions of others. I can still detect when somebody is unhappy or worried or angry, and what I need to do to accommodate that.

You could be an INTP. But you'll need to do more research and figure it out for yourself, find the type that seems to fit you the best. No type is going to be 100% spot on, but you can always have a good idea of where you fit.

[Edmond Zedo]

So I'm a T when it comes to dealing with THINGS, but an F when I deal with PEOPLE. Maybe you guys can help me?
Since that doesn't make sense, I'd say you're likely F.


Though I do know that criticism can be helpful, I can still be a little-to-moderately hurt by it.
Yeah, life's a bitch.

[last_caress]

Since you've established the IXXP part, from your description it sounds like ISXP more specifically.
To really determine that perhaps figure out what you spend more time doing, physically playing or mentally playing.

I can identify with your approach to people. I am the same way yet I score T on tests. I'm usually within 10-15% of the border.
Perhaps what will help you decide this is what you act on and what you do not.
In other words, do you more often show that you've been hurt by criticism, or favor staying in someones good graces at the expense of what you think makes the most sense rationally?
If yes then I would say you are an F.

Like I said I can identify with how you feel, however I make an effort not to display emotional responses to criticism and with decision making I try to take peoples feelings into account but favor objective criteria. That puts me on the T side of that fence.

[April]

Some people say that XXXX is the best type to be. You're half way there!

I'm getting an ISFP vibe mostly.

[Melody]

have u lookd at other profiles like entp

[Iyan]

This is so cool. Thanks for your replies.

Edmund Zeto, yes, I took the sorter---in fact, several times. I had many "swing" questions that could put me on either side of the fence. One time I scored ISTP, but the S was too close to the center. Then I scored INTP with the N close to the center. Then I answered as honestly as I could, and I scored IXXP. Then I wondered what would happen if I answered all "Ns" to all the questions I had a neutral response to. All of a sudden my N went through the roof. Then I tried to answer all the "neutral questions" as all S. I scored IXXP. So my range of answers means that I would answer either mildly S on one extreme, or strong N on the other extreme, with the best answers giving me an X.

As for T/F, I scored a very mild T if anything, on the T side. When I took the test again, I scored one point away from the center towards T. When I answered the questions as honestly as possible I scored X. If I answered a neutral question with one more point towards the F side, I'd score F.

On Typelogic.com I received the same result several times, but I scored more INTP than not. I wasn't sure if I was answering the questions as accurately as I could, and I try to be a perfectionist at doing this. Sometimes I would score ISTP, and other times as INTP. Still I scored ISFP one time, but I don't remember scored INFP. But still, the IXXP factor remains as the answers are simply too close to the center.
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Magajy,

I do prefer sensory activities, but when I settle down, I could think about anything, and I can be quite calm, though this wasn't the case when I was younger, as I was very, very active and quite rowdy.
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waxwing,

My random daydreams can be almost anything. I'll give you some examples. I may see a fighter blowing up in a computer game that I play, seeing the explosion and hearing the noise from it, with the music playing in the background. I might daydream about the past, and I might reflect on the future. I may hear an insult someone that someone called me, play over and over in my head. I may even see a page in "Keirsey's Please Understand Me II," or a page from Dr. Stephen Montgomery's "People Patterns," in which case I start thinking about abstract material. I daydream a lot about Temperament Theory. I might contemplate about the complexities of the universe. I get bombarded by these thoughts so heavily that I liken it to a supercell thunderstorm filled with crashing lightning; yes, it can be that intense sometimes. All that can make my head hurt sometimes, because I am thinking automatically, and my awareness out in the real world can make me (or other people) think I'm in autopilot mode, staring into space with a blank look, being in a trance.

Though I automatically do this while I'm not doing anything exciting. Whenever I'm doing something that is exciting, sensory-stimulating, like a fast-paced sport, I'm observant. This is better than seeing myself in my head play. And if I can't do anything exciting at the moment, I will automatically think of something interesting, be it concrete or abstract, to keep me going. I need so much sensory stimulation otherwise I will shut down and start thinking about something interesting. There are a few times where my daydreams and thoughts can distract me while I'm playing a game in the real world, but this usually doesn't occur.

My interests specifically are the following:

Descent I, Descent II, Descent III, Descent: Freespace 1 and Descent: Freespace II. I love to play sports like Tennis, Tae Kwon Do, Ultimate Frisbee, and Soccer, particularly dodgeball, and I might take up Paintball. I also play Chess, an NT strategy game.

I play Descent 1/2/3 over the internet. I play single player and multiplayer. It's a cross between a flight simulator and a first person shooter. It's like Doom, but you are flying what is called a "Pyro-GX" ship in underground mines, blowing up virus-infected robots as you go, then you blow up the reactor and you get out before the mine blows up. Unline Doom, which restricts you to horizontal movement, Descent allows you to fly up and down vertical shafts. You could even fly upside down if you wished. First time I played that game I got a headache because I was disoriented and was trying to see which way was up and orient myself as such, but it was as fun as heck because it was so different and so hard to control and get used to. It's 360 degree 3D flight. I soon got into multiplayer and enjoyed blowing away other players with various weapons. Truly, I was really excited when I got the chance to play. In one vs. one matches, you start to try to think about the other player's strengths and weaknesses, and what kinds of tricks you could play on him to get one more step ahead and score extra kills. Mind games are a common thing in one vs. one. I've played with the Descent series for almost 10 years, and I'm still trying to master the game.

I even built many maps for the games, and I usually plan them out ahead of time, because I prefer to have a general plan in mind in how I want the map to look like, and experiment with different structures to see if I can make it play differently, perhaps maybe speed up the pace of play or slow it down, so I think of certain level dynamics and theories to give the level a feel that I want to give it. As a result, I'm more inclined to have a plan in mind prior to building the map rather than building it on impulse upon impulse, though I will resort to doing that if I can't make my mind up on a plan.

I also love the sports like Tennis, Dodgeball, and Ultimate Frisbee and Tae Kwon Do, for the sheer action. Though I went into Tae Kwon Do to learn Self Defense, I tend to be more interested in a SYSTEM of moves called a Poomse, and I like looking at the diagrams of the steps in the system and carrying them out because the complexity of the system intrigues me, and that part may interest me more than the other aspects of Tae Kwon Do.

But the abstract will hold my attention when Sensually stimulating activities are not available, in which case I can become pretty interested in Temperament Theory, in chemical bonding, etc.

I like Chess because it makes me think. I like to exercise my head in trying to see a certain amount of moves ahead. I would play at work at lunch and I would get a kick out of playing it, and I was pretty good at it, too, though I did study some on Chess Strategies while the others may not know how to properly play the game.

Like I said, this could either be a non-naturally occurring habit, or a naturally occurring one. If it's non-natural, I developed the habit of daydreaming in 8th grade to escape classroom boredom, and thus, I may be an S type underneath the skin. Or if it's natural, I'm probably an N type. I heard someplace in Please Understand Me II that ISTPs are more easily bored than any other type. Another place in that book said that boredom is one of the most painful things an Artisan can go through, and almost anything would be done to get rid of it or avoid it.

I do agree with you, that certain people can be VERY boring. They talk about their children or husbands or wives doing this or that, just really drab ordinary stuff. I have trouble with small talk as well, and I tend to talk about scientific stuff (NT), becoming quite excited (SP) as I speak about, say, chemical bonding, and maybe some scientific facts. Or I might talk about temperament theory (N) and I can watch others passing out and falling over asleep with the Ether of abstract topics.

I might listen with interest about funny events that occur in the real world, or something really intriguing, greater than ordinary stuff. I might listen to exciting events that occur, normally anything with larger-than-life sensation.
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last_caress

As of now, while I do get hurt by people I don't know, I tend to not want to make myself a public spectacle or to create a scene. But as with close friends or family, who may or may not deliberately hurt me, I might say something, due to my introvertedness. While as a child, it was different, I was much more expressive and caustic; as of now, I tend to not want to make a scene of myself, so I hold them in. Maybe part of that reason is because I was raised by a couple of T Grandparents, and they communicated to me their disapproval of expressing emotions childishly through tantrums. Though I did wish that they told me that I could express them in a more mature, controlled manner, so that my F could see the development that it probably didn't see. I would have to say, however, that I tend to make mountains out of mowhills, even if I do express my emotions in a controlled manner. I still take things personally (internally) but I don't really say anything. But as for now I don't like to create scenes, though I can be sensitive to others' feelings. I don't trust my grandparents when I express my emotions to them because I could be put down by them, and I usually find someone else more worthwhile to talk to. All I can say is that I'm watching myself, trying to see if I can pick up on any hints. I may be an F temperament-wise, but a T-personality-wise, since this is how I developed, but I could still be wrong. I don't know how I would REALLY have acted if my personality followed my temperament, since I don't know what my temperament is, that is, whether I was really predisposed towards F or predisposed towards T, since temperament cannot be changed but personality can.

Another thing to add. As a child, I was a very, very active kid always seeking something fun to do (SP). But at the same time I was fantasy-oriented, turning objects into characters and making a story out of it, an N-attribute, though I think that sensory activities may have appealed more to me. I was also more observant than I am now. That is where it gets quite confusing...at least.
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Melody, I have. Strangely enough, eNTp might apply more to me than iNTp would. On Keirsey's site, ENTPs and ENTJs are not "extraverted" or "outgoing" very much, though they can be. The E in ENTP or ENTJ is different from the E in ESFJ or ESTJ.

http://users.viawest.net/~keirsey/difference.html

The ENTJ is not "extraverted" very much, and the ENTP is even less, it says. The E, therefore, seems to mean more like "outer directed" rather than "sociable." It's a possibility.

On a side note...it is strange enough, when I would be called to write a book report on someone, I would choose a Biography, and select people like Thomas Edison and Benjamin Franklin to write about (assignment is still boring though, heh). As an SP (supposedly), you'd think that my favorite historical people to be Artisans. Most of my favorite people are scientists. Yet Science may become a hobby for me rather than a major that I choose in college, since I'm not sure I want to get into Science as a major, though there is some interesting things in there.

[distraction tactics]

Maybe you guys can help me?

Drawing strict lines on MBTI, Artisans are noted for their restlessness in school. Se plays a dominant/auxiliary role in each SP type; a weak(er) or absent Ti could make sitting around in class a difficult thing indeed.

Hot-headedness would indicate to me an SP personality; be it Ti or Fi I cannot say.

Are/were you a patient chess player? I played chess well on the computer, but a newbie chess player could always beat me simply by taking their time. I had a tendency as well to overlook my opponents' strategies because of the game's completely abstract nature (ie. a Queen poses no real, physical threat to a pawn).

(Determining T/F I have to ponder a point - could an F be distinguished as one who actively involves themselves with others, as opposed to a T who simply 'reacts' to others... the success of which depends on how well socialized they are, not specifically how they naturally operate?)

Things I would recommend trying if you haven't already:

-In-depth recollection of your behaviour as a child. Climbing-trees/skinned-knees activity? Were you a bookworm? Did you create plays or act out fantasies? Shy? Bold? Precocious? One's dominant function should show clearly in childhood.

-Make a list of the typical S/N dichotomy, and without providing context, ask your close friends and family which one they think fits you best. Outside perspectives can bring valuable insight.

-Throughout your teen years, what hobbies old or new did you develop? Art? Writing? Music? Interest in abstract theorie? Sports? Mechanics? Relationships?

[Iyan]

I was a pretty patient chess player. I would look at one move and look at all the good possible replies that my opponent could do, though if I can't focus well, I might play a quicker game. Mostly, I didn't see many moves ahead, but I could see at least 2 half moves ahead, and at max, 3 half moves. A half move is one move made by one side, whereas a full move is a move from each side.

Yes, SPs are known to be restless. I couldn't sit still in 1st grade. I was really hyper. Even now, at 23, I still tend to pace around the room, in perpetual motion, still restless, but not having the overloaded child-like energy of my earlier years.

Though I did live in a fantasy world as a child, I didn't really make any stories...I just simply made things up as I went along, and act them out, and using any object(s) at hand as characters. Though I would have to say that I was a little more of a tree-climber/runner/jumper/hyperkinetic/bouncing-off-the-walls type of kid. I was definately not a bookworm, but a few times I might look something up in the encyclopedia if I was curious about something. I was interested in science, and while in the library, on a whim, I could read science books geared towards kids, but I had trouble following along in adult-oriented science books. I even remember picking up a Chemistry book geared towards adults and I found it to be boring. I didn't find pictureless fictional books interesting though, but I did like watching fictional Walt Disney videos, since I was more visually inclined. I was more shy than not. Not sure about boldness, as that probably depended on the situation, though it is humiliating to be called a "scaredy cat."

But I also did some unusual things, even in the 3rd-5th grade. I also was interested in other alphabets of other languages, and so I would try to memorize them, and I would make up my own and sound them out, and create my own codes. I was also able to draw 3D geometric figures on paper, and I could tell whether there was distortion or not. Didn't need the help of a perspective dot on the horizon to help me.

Our 3rd grade Teacher gave us all a block of wood with a hole in the center, with four nails around it. Our objective was to create a "snake" with yarn. So she looped the yarn around the nails and gave them to all of us, and instructed us how to use it. There was probably around 20 kids in the classroom, maybe a little bit more. I was one of the few/couple kids, if not, the only kid in the classroom, creating uniform patterns while the other kids were strugging, having difficulty with their tool. I simply looked at the loops, and I knew that you lift up the bottom strand over the top of the nail, onto the top of the top strand and pull down. And you simply repeat the same pattern, over and over again, in circles. While I was having trouble learning classroom/homework material, I was surpassing the other kids in using this tool to make a snake of yarn correctly. Our teacher also taught us how to crochet, making a simple thin snake of yarn, and I also picked up on that easily.

Throughout the 3-5 grade years, I had so much trouble doing homework I simply couldn't do it. I had trouble with doing a certain creative writing assignment in the 4th grade. We were given an obscure figure, and we were to draw body parts of various kinds onto it, and describe it, but I didn't know what to put on, nor did I know how to describe it. I won't forget that one.

As for the teen years, I had stopped fantasizing. Daydreaming didn't have a firm hold on me though, but sometimes I would daydream to get away from being bored, and it was most likely a deliberate thing. I might have been more observant, maybe. I used to draw mazes in junior high, and I made some pretty hard ones. I had artistic drawing capabilities, but I tended to gravitate more towards mechanics. I would mess around with computer hardware, dinking around with the sound board/modem, messing around with IRQ settings and DMA settings, etc. My friend and I used to experiment with data communications by sending faxes to each other. I'd experiment with modem initialization strings (if anyone is familiar with AT&FE1&C1&D2S11=50 or ATZ^M, you will get what I'm saying). I guess you would say I had "fax fever." I had another friend who liked playing modem-to-modem computer games with Descent 2 Demo, and IndyCar Racing II, and those are what I got into. I loved shooting stuff down. I also took up golf and played some other sports. Tae Kwon Do appealed to me very much, thought at first I thought it may only be mildly fun. I developed interest in abstract concepts later. While I was 17, I was handed a "Keirsey Temperament Sorter" test. I looked down at the "ISFJ, ISTP, ISFP, INTP" and other symbols at the bottom. I was thinking, "What the heck are these?" Some of the pages to the test were missing and so I didn't get an accurate result. I scored ISFJ, whatever that meant, heh. It said at the bottom something like this:

ISTP -- "Getting done what only needs to get done."
ISFJ -- "Something-something-duty" and etc. etc.

I was quite curious, but it would be a few years later before I looked for that mysterious test. I asked myself, "What was that 'ISFJ' thing?" So I searched the net and I immediately recognized Keirsey Temperament Sorter. I even recognized some of the questions. "This is it!" I said to myself. However, I only skimmed the surface...took the test, scored SP. But then I looked at the other protraits too, as well as the meaning between S and N. S people, it said, were observant. N people tend to lose track of things around them because they're so focused on what they are thinking about at the moment. I noticed that my mind drifted in class a lot. The protraits told me that N people are more head-up-in-the-clouds while S people are more down to earth. That S people are more practical, and N people more fanciful. So I took the test, thinking that maybe I was influenced by my family members as well as other people, into thinking that practical was better than fanciful, because it rubbed off on me and I didn't think for myself. So I took the test again, repeatedly, score SP about three or four more times. Some people say to choose answers that you observe yourself doing; others say to choose what sounds good to you, by impulse, as it is most likely the correct answer. I answered the questions that sounded good to me, though that may not reflect your actual opinions, because one can be influenced by outside factors to believe a certain way. The words "down to earth" appealed to me, because it sounded good, and I selected it. But I think when I repeated my test results SP over and over again, I was choosing answers based on my observations on maybe, say, the second or third try, maybe in combination with what seemed good. My sister scored NT though. However, she is not the scientific type, and she said, when she looked at the Rational portrait, her response, "Must be a fluke."

I started speculating about which questions related to S/N and T/F and so forth. At the time, I think I would have scored more F, though I personally thought the ISTP portrait described me the best. I may have scored F either because of temperament, or because of some life events that occurred before that softened me up at the time.

Then a couple years later, I decide that I absolutely needed the book Please Understand Me II. I was in College, and I needed some sense of direction. I didin't know what I would truly like for a job, and the last thing I wanted was a job I hated doing. In addition, it gave me even more than that: it gave me some tips on how to communicate with other temperaments, as well as trying to find the best girlfriend for me, should I ever look for one, though I have been way too shy to search for one. I scored 10/10 for the letter "I" in the test in the book. "P" was strong, but not quite as strong as "I." Since I turned out to be absent-minded, I may have made an error. While N types are more absent-minded, I was readjusting my answers to see if I would touch N because I thought I was N because I just wasn't observant. But this simple may have been only part of the bigger picture. But still, interest in abstract Temperament Theory pulled me to the center anyway.

[Magajy]

Good heavens. Are you sure u're an I? Or is it that your are really exicted?

From what you have said so far, I will vote you're an S. especially from your saying:

" I developed interest in abstract concepts later. While I was 17, I was handed a "Keirsey Temperament Sorter" test."

[Iyan]

Well, let's put it this way, I am definately reserved. Not outgoing at all.

[Zero Angel]

I've had a similar experience. Except it was in 6th grade where me and my friends (one an XXTP, probably ENTP; another a possible INFP, and another a possible ESTP) would do these kinds of things. Whether it was inventing things using our imaginations, playing RPGs together, acting out a story we wrote and things like fight scenes or making maps of our wilderness hikes. We led an active fantasy life.

Your story sounds very similar to my own, and my type is INTP (Socionics ENTp). Given that you already know that you're an introvert it shouldn't be impossible to narrow things down by such factors as:

- Do you introvert feeling? or extrovert it? Example (http://www.intuitivecentral.com/forum/showthread.php?p=99922#post99922) (a weak amount of expressed Fe appears similar to, but is different from Fi)
- Which of the 3 remaining temperament styles do you fit? (Competence/knowledge seeking rationals? Harmonic/Soul seeking idealists? Stimulation/Impact seeking experiencers?)
- Does intuition act in an extraverted capacity? or an introverted capacity? (ie: Ne: I see how this is connected to that, and I further add connections, my hopes and dreams are sometimes vague. I can take something in context and spread it out over multiple contexts to gather an understanding of how this is all connected. When I am afraid, it is caused by a vague intution of all of the things that can go wrong at each step. or Ni: I can see that the way you're looking at this isnt the way that it truly is.If I am spiritual I believe that god exists simply by looking around me, given the miracles that I can see in ordinary things how can he not exist? (actually that's tied more to strong Ni). When I am afraid, it is of myself mostly, I can see the ways which I am inferior and unable to meet the challenge of specific tasks.)

[Iyan]

I don't really know. I could do both, depending on the situation. Usually I will keep my feelings to myself, but if I extrovert it, it can be in the form of an outburst.

I'm still studying this stuff...got a new book called "Do What You Are" and it talks about Introverted/Extraverted Feeling.

I'm more familiar with Keirsey than with Myers-Briggs though. Introverted Thinking/feeling and Extraverted Feeling can take place (It's rare that I use Extraverted Thinking though).

I'm usually very calm inside, and I can feel intensely within myself, but only when I get frustrated or hurt. I hold it in until I can't hold it in much longer. I also have trouble talking about my feelings with other people.

I really don't know. I used to be observant, but I no longer am. I don't really consider myself an Identity Seeker--I'm only doing it now so that I can plan my future. As with SP-NT, I'm not sure where I fall. Though I'm not ruling out the possiblity of NF.

Looking outside of me is nearly as m00t as a mat in a moat, unless I'm having fun and enjoying myself, or if I'm forced to by circumstance.

In my head, I'm constantly trying to determine where I fit, making a bunch of connections, and analyzing from every angle. Perhaps we might talk. (Sorry about my delay in this post...I'm pretty busy doing other things).

[Ella]

Is there a college or university near you? Why don't you take the actual MBTI and go over the results with a psychologist? That would be your best bet at finding out what type you are.

[Iyan]

Well, I went to a Community College, and I am not sure that they had the test there, but pretty much every test I've taken on the net was centered between S/N T/F. Heh. And I'm already out of college. Took Keirsey Temperament Sorter II, still centered. Though I did do an experiment.

I actually tried setting up a "range value" experiment. If you answer A. for a question, you score S on that question. If you answer B. on that question, you would score N for that question.

Many of these questions I could answer either A or B.

When I answered them, I answered as accurately as possible, with A being maybe for most of those questions that I had trouble answering. But I could also answer B, because B was equally accurate too.

So I answered A for most of those trouble questions. Came out X.

Then I answered B, and I scored a pretty high N. My range value is something like X at one extreme, and a pretty strong N at the other extreme.

X= 10 S's and 10 N's
N = maybe 14 N's and 8 S's.

Though I still have my doubts. I behave very unpredictably, going for competence when the feeling that I haven't mastered something bothers me (NT). Or many times I would do something for the sake of doing it, for the enjoyment of doing it (SP). It's hard to tell which I do more. Maybe doing something to get good at it, but at the same time, I must have fun doing it. Enjoyment of doing something is required. When I have fun doing something, I must be good at it, too.

Yet, I must say, if I'm an SP, I'm very strange. Just a couple of examples: I'm interested in personality theory, which flies in the face of SPs. And when I saw a book that talked about the Universe being a giant mathematical computer, I didn't really think it was "out there" but rather intriguing. Also the fact that I can understand theories unusually well for an SP seems to make me think that I'm a different type sometimes.

It's really strange, because the people that I work with at work have so much trouble seeing beyond the actual. I'm using them as a reference point. Even my grandmother doesn't remember whether I was a "hands-on" learner or not.

With laboratory experiments, even though they were hands-on, they were really hard to follow. I needed to know what the main point was before proceeding, and sometimes I would feel like I'm the caboose.

Though I enjoy playing (hands-on) with computer games the most, I can have trouble trusting my instinct sometimes.

And it seems that I can learn theories about as fast as learning how to play the game and tactics. Though in my best estimation, the SP portrait in Keirsey's book Please Understand Me II seemed to fit me the best, because of my fun-loving nature; though for an SP, I'm particularly odd.

If I could only choose among the four main types and nothing in between, probably SP, though I still could be wrong because I liked science and actually wanted to learn about things, just like an NT. I may have not been a bookworm, but watching videos engaged my attention. I'm not even sure whether play or learning dominated. But if I had no rules to follow, saying, that I can choose in-between types, it would be IXXP, because that would be the most accurate. It's so hard to say that I am one of these four, and not the other one, at the same time.

I don't really consider myself as an identity-seeker, namely, an NF. I have not exhibited it anytime in childhood up until the present (except for now), and the only purpose that I'm seeking my identity now is so that I can plot my course for the future, be it jobs, etc. So I am ruling out the possibility of being an NF, though if this continues (Lord willing), even after I get a job that suits me, I will ponder again the possibility of being an NF.

There were some things that stunted my interest for learning certain things, because those interests weren't pursued in depth, and as a result, I could seem slightly more SP than not. I would say that I would alternate between play and learning, though between these two I cannot determine which I did more, taking into account science videos that I watched. It's simply is too hard for me to determine at this time, it seems, where I lie in terms of type.

Here is something interesting. My ISFP mom tells me that she sees me more as an INTP. She says that SPs are more wild than I am, and that I am scientifically oriented. I tried to convince her that I probably was an SP, but she still sees me as an NT. Though I'm not sure I can really relate to the INTP portrait. Kinda funny. :P

Another possibility is that I'm an ENTP, and it seems, overall, to fit me better than an INTP, though the ISTP portrait still may fit me better than the rest. Though the ENTP portrait can still fit. Keirsey's page said that ENTPs are not "extraverted" very much, though they can be outgoing, they don't have to be. Since their point of view is pragmatic, their sociability is often contingent because of their focus on problem solving. Though on casual aquaintance, they can be "extraverted." They can be open to people to some extent. In the general NT section of Keirsey's book, it says that NTs lack social skills. This is a general section, and consequently, he was referring to ENTJs, INTJs, ENTPs and INTPs! That means that the "extraverted" NTs lack social skills! If that is the case, it could be that I'm an ENTP.

Though the possibility of being E can be factored in when I know that I don't have many opportunities to socialize. But when I do have the opportunity to socialize with friends who have the same interest, I probably wouldn't hesitate. I'm simply too busy to do it. As long as I'm hanging around with others who have the same interest, I can be "extraverted."

My heroes tend to be NTs, my favorite being Thomas Edison, followed by other inventors and scientists. The SPs in Hollywood don't have my respect. Whether this is relevant or not, I don't know.

Now that I'm more able to seek my interests, I will be watching myself closely...

[distraction tactics]

In the manner you are guaging your own interests and behaviour, MBTI has clearly been beneficial. If a lack of resolution to one specific type or temperment is absent, don't fret; keep thinking about it and mulling it over in your head. Try to type those around you - see what types you click with, who you're clearly NOT like... I always entertained being INFP until I actually had to work with one and found out about the many ways in which we clashed.

I would also echo any sentiment to look into socionics:
http://www.the16types.info
http://www.socion.info
http://www.socionics.com

It's a different beast than MBTI. Try to forget what you already know. An interesting aspect of socionics is the function-order which gives examples of how each type acts according to, for example, which function is their 'point of least resistance'/most sensitive to criticism/most likely to buckle under stress.

Another interesting site - this time MBTI - I've been browsing is http://www.bestfittype.com. Yes, it has the typical 16 profiles, but it also has some unique (afaik) information on the 4 temperments under topics like 'Change', 'Stress' and 'Self-Leadership'.

[Ella]

Tests "on the net" aren't the same thing as taking the actual proctored MBTI and having an exit meeting in which you discuss your results with a psychologist. Usually you don't have to be enrolled in the college/uni to take the MBTI, they offer them to the public (for a fee). If you want to figure out which type you are, that is really the best way. Best of luck.

[Zero Angel]

As Ella says, a professional test administered by an expert (not just an online test) would most likely be worth it for you.

As far as type goes, I am going to go out on a limb and say that perhaps you are an ENTP. ENTP is probably the most emotional of the NT's so they might sometimes fool themselves into thinking they are F types, particuarly introverted F's since the F is not willingly expressed to the world but very present regardless.

There is quite a difference between introversion and shyness and they often get mistaken for each other. A common misconception of the MBTI is that only introverts seek solitude. This is not exactly true, as a shy extravert can also seek solitude or feel shifty and get overwhelmed if they have spent too much time introverting.

I have written a lot more but I would first like to see your results on this test (http://cognitiveprocesses.com/assessment/survey.html), before I introduce any further biases to your thinking.

If you identify with something and then suddenly feel that it is 'wrong' then you might be identifying with a profile or trait you like. If that happens, try to identify with the opposite end of the trait before reaching a conclusion and continuing the test. The foyer effect (personal validation fallacy, aka: the thing that makes astrology work) is very present in MBTI because the questions themselves are not very neutral.

[Iyan]

Interesting point. Though I have been on infp.globalchatter.com , it was a really nice place to go, but I'm not sure that I "fit" on that website. I seem to fit it better on INTPC than I do over there, at least I think so at this point. I still read topics here from time to time, so that I can get a true feel for what INTPs are like, so that I can establish that as a frame of reference.

distraction_tactics: Yes, I would have to agree, that actually being around a person of a specific type helps you determine where you are, as opposed to thinking what they are/could be like, since bias nevertheless comes with conceptions, especially if conceptions can be overblown.

Though I would have to admit, if my mom is an ISFP (which most likely is the answer), that can probably negate me being an ISFP since I am around her, but our interests are very different, and she behaves in a different way than I do. She feels very "practical" relative to me. She feels "different" from me, yet still, with her being a much stonger S than I am (if I am an S), she is also interested in type theory, just like I am, but she is more interested in it when type is connected to parenting. I'm interested in type so that I know my strengths and therefore can chart my course.

(Who says that S-type people don't have interest in type theory? Maybe this is an exception. :P)

[meshou]

You strike me as an ISTP, which is awesome.

Don't discount sensory thrills. My INTX boyfriend was a herion addict, and his ISTP brother (whom he played chess with frequently) couldn't understand why he chose to. He was also much more prone to daydream. Furthermore, INTX boyfriend loves working on cars. ISTP brother was interested and picked up being taught more quickly than INTX brother, but was less in love with it.

However, if INTX boyfriend went off on something TOTALLY bizarre and on a tangent, he took a couple seconds to catch up, and never went into weird tangentry unless the boyfriend did so first.

Anyway, they aren't polar opposites, they're different skill sets for similar problems. Every N must notice things, every S has to follow confusing lines of thought, Fs must be objective, Ts must be self aware etc.

[Iyan]

Yes there are exceptions everywhere. Though certain S's can daydream constantly--it's probably that the big picture says they are an SP or an SJ. Or perhaps they all of a sudden are interested in the abstract, and suddenly, almost everything concrete doesn't matter anymore. I guess it may depend on the situation. I'm simply saying that there could be a time in the life of an S that is marked heavily and predominantly by abstract thought, only a little later in life, to find themselves settling back down in the concrete again.

Or it could be that according to a Myer-Briggs-based book, "Do What You Are," that I'm simply going through a time where I'm developing my Ni (if I'm an ISP). Somewhere in the book it said that an ENFP may find identifying more with the ENTP, but that's probably because they're just starting to develop and flex their third muscle, which is a Thinking function. According to the book, it says that exercising the third function takes place somewhere between age 25 and age 50. It could be that I'm developing Ni much earlier than expected. That is the first speculation.

The second speculation is that I was ENTP or INTP all this time, and I have never addressed the needs of my true temperament for me to grow properly.

This seems to be an unlikely case, since I don't really desire to have debates like NTs do, and the fact that having the "real thing" is better than imagining the same thing in my head. (Though if the present situation in the real world is too boring, I would opt to think about interesting concepts in my head. My ISFP mom also daydreamed during her boring classroom hours in high school to escape.) Though I'm not entirely ruling it out as a possibility.

For instance, you read a fantasy based story about a legendary hero who conquers in the end. To an NT, that is better than the real thing. To an SP, it isn't enough just to read about it; rather, they must become a soldier themselves. They must experience the action and the thrill firsthand, and the all-encompassing glory that they achieve.

The third speculation is that, unlike the first case, I'm developing VERY slowly, just flexing my auxiliary function, be it Ti or Ne, if I'm NTP, (whichever is coming second).

As far as Keirsey's Portraits go, I seem to identify more closely to the Keirseyan portrait of ISTP than ISFP. Though it does say that ISTPs are observant, I'm not very observant. It says that ISTPs tend to be risk takers. For me, this is only partially true. If something is too dangerous, I would avoid it. These are probably the only two things that don't fit me, with the rest fitting me pretty well.

As far as the Murray-State University portraits go when it comes to looking at the ISTP and ISFP, I can relate to both of them.

http://www.murraystate.edu/secsv/fye/istp.htm
http://www.murraystate.edu/secsv/fye/isfp.htm

I looked at Keirsey's and Murray-State University's portraits of ENTP and INTP, but I can't relate to them as much as ISTP and ISFP.

Should I be an ISTP though, I'm a pretty gentle one. It may be necessary for me to point out errors, but I tend to be more gentle in doing so. More like correcting someone in a polite way, though I tend not to like criticizing or to be given to criticism very much.

As far as things go, it is very rewarding for me to fix impersonal problems than to deal with people's feelings. I can feel helpless at my job when trying to help out an angry customer. I can only calmly ask them what they want, but I feel helpless trying to soothe their emotional state. I will speak calmly, but am careful not to make tham any more angry than they are. Yet, I myself am easily hurt by criticism.

[Zero Angel]

Maybe you are an ISXP. Those do exist you know. I used to have a psychologist, and his temperament was ISXP. I told him about temperament theory and all he wanted to know was what I wanted him to do (do you want me to take the tests? and how to best please me.

but he was also very feminine, there were definite signs of both Fe and Fi in his personality.

As far as being possible ENTP, there is a key quality that most ENTP seem to possess, and that is wanting to explain things to people. ENTP very much like INTP want to be the providers of clarity, however socionics ENTP types will go to great lengths to impress everyone with their knowledge, myself included.

This is because we ultimately want to please people. We like to see others enjoy our efforts, and this, while similar to the INTP style if different because the INTP want to understand Fe, they dedicate much of their lives to understanding Fe, where ENTP's use Fe as 'playtime' and in a very childish capacity.

I had a productive argument with an ENFP and her ISTP boyfriend tonite, and it seemed that there were key differences in our argument style.

The argument was that a rubbie had flipped off the ISTP as he was passing by in his car (for no reason?). The ISTP immediately pulled over and confronted the rubbie (who was with his kid), and the ISTP pulled out a knife to back up his seriousness.

The ENFP based her argument on 'oh, well some random stranger flipped you off, why do you even care? It was not like he was like 'fuck you *name* I hope you burn in hell', he probably just had a bad day.

The ISTP based his arguement on 'why did he do that in the first place? he deserved whatever he got', while I backed him up with the phrase 'if someone steps into the arena, they had better be prepared to do battle'. The ISTP agreed with me and the ENFP disagreed.

To the ISTP and me, it was about principles (if you step into the arena, then you should be prepared for the consequences), whereas to the ENFP it was about specifics and meaning (he didn't *mean* to hurt you specifically, he probably had a bad day and chose to vent on a stranger).

And this, I believe, is where Fi (FP/TJ) and Fe (FJ/TP) types differ. The Fi types believe that if you are hurt or angry, then you have a right to let out your feeling on anyone, it is a natural cause of venting, and should be taken on a case-by-case basis. Wheras the Fe types believe that if you are in turmoil you have no right to treat others like shit just because you feel like shit, ie: if you step into the arena then you had better be prepared to do battle.

Now, both of these may be right. The Fe types seem to believe that the world is based on dependence, where people need to depend on each other. If I do something for you, then you need to do something for me.

The Fi types seem to believe in non-dependence where if I do something for you, it doesnt matter because I don't really care that I did that thing for you. In that particular case I wanted to do that thing for you. That is giving. But in the same way it works with taking. I took from you because I wanted to take from you. A debt does not exist, for Fi doesn't like to keep score.

[Iyan]

Interesting points. I'm wrestling with it in my head though. I did make a couple more observations. I'm more careful with people in public, being cooperative so that there won't be any emotional turmoil. With family members, it can be more different, though I still don't like to have emotional turnmoil, I could be less sensitive to the desires of others.

Needless to say, I'm still thinking about it...still doing research, keeping in mind differences between Keirsey Theory and Myers-Briggs. Ugh...sigh. :banghead: I'm never done tirelessly and relentlessly analyzing it because it simply seems too stubborn to yield. But I will not give up, nor will I relent, until I solve the problem. And I agree with your take on Fe, and yes, I probably would do just as that ISTP would do (though for some reason if someone flips me off, it doesn't make sense to me, and so I don't get offended easily, but if someone insults my intelligence, then they're toast).