Self Employed/Entrepreneurs

[int]

So I've been working with a couple partners doing website design mostly. We originally started this company as a production company and used web design as a way to raise some capital. Eventually, we bit the bullet and started moving towards production (we're about halfway through filming a documentary). But details are swamping me, and I think I need to take myself out of the mess.

Our biggest flaw is the fact that my partners want to pay off our debt with more debt - effectively delaying the inevitable, imo. I want(ed) to pre-sell the documentary for a long time. Of course, that means we'd lose some of the "creative control" of the doc.

Big deal. I've got a mortgage to pay. Plus the whole reason I was able to take risks is my credit rating and financial smarts (such as they are)- I pay bills on time and have good credit (which gives me means to take financial risks - like running a business). I've had to slip on the bills lately and could potentially ruin my means to be able to work for myself. That wouldn't be good.

So I'm thinking of heading out on my own this time, just doing computer/network support/installs/testing/etc for homes and small businesses. That's where my previous experience is. I can manage that part time and build another production company - focused on music (kind of like a record label but I'd work with the musicians a lot more, and help them build something to which a major or 1/2 step label would be willing to take over) - on the side over the next few years. I'd do it myself this time though, and hire people as I needed.

And if the computer jobs worked out, I could either charge a lot more or get more help and evetually phase myself out to focus on the music stuff.

After that, I've got plans for a restaurant, but that's still 15 years away (at least). Or maybe law school (I'd like to be a big-shot in a decent musician's union :) ).

Anyways, what are you guys doing? If you've gone solo are you partnered? How's that? What convinced you to drop out of the "regular" jobs? Do you like it? Can you tell me more or give me any advice on what to look for next time ;)?

[Spartan26]

I want(ed) to pre-sell the documentary for a long time. Of course, that means we'd lose some of the "creative control" of the doc.

Big deal. I've got a mortgage to pay. Plus the whole reason I was able to take risks is my credit rating and financial smarts (such as they are)- I pay bills on time and have good credit (which gives me means to take financial risks - like running a business). I've had to slip on the bills lately and could potentially ruin my means to be able to work for myself. That wouldn't be good.


If you can get ANY money to shoot, grab it. You always want to use other people's money to shoot. Creative control is more something you "earn." I use the quotations becuase earn should not be confused with merit.

It takes a while of having success to get people to leave you alone. You can tell the financiers, "look, you hired me to make this film. You obviously trusted me, let me finish." Don't think of having to have every point or idea in the film but think "does this production fit the tone and message I want to convey?" If it's way off the mark, but no offensive, you can always pitch your original idea to do later. Which might be just as well as people will expect something similar from your follow up project.

Don't be paralyzed by your final product, especially your first, not being as good as you hoped. Just showing you can get a film in the can could give you the opportunity to fight again.

Pay off all your bills. Learn to do without. Cut overhead. Re-fi. Get rid of all bills. If only for the serenity of not having someone call or get second notices in the mail. It'll just add undue pressure.

I better break this into multiple posts. :nerd:

[Spartan26]

So I'm thinking of heading out on my own this time, just doing computer/network support/installs/testing/etc for homes and small businesses. I can manage that part time and build another production company - focused on music (kind of like a record label but I'd work with the musicians a lot more, and help them build something to which a major or 1/2 step label would be willing to take over) - on the side over the next few years. I'd do it myself this time though, and hire people as I needed.

And if the computer jobs worked out, I could either charge a lot more or get more help and evetually phase myself out to focus on the music stuff.

After that, I've got plans for a restaurant, but that's still 15 years away (at least). Or maybe law school (I'd like to be a big-shot in a decent musician's union :) ).

Can you tell me more or give me any advice on what to look for next time ;)?

Is there anyway you can combine all of these into one? Intergrate as much of the process as you can. Use you computer tech skills to help bands (Charge them as a service, of course). Shoot videos for local bands. Work with a restaurant to bring in live entertainment once a week. Network, network, network.

Enroll in school now. Film school will give you access to cameras and equipment. You can often get film for cheap and ease in getting permits (if needed at all). Many times they'll cover insurance on shoots. People are less intimidated by film students and are more willing to look at your work.

Don't spend money you don't have. Checks can be a long time in the coming. Months. Don't think, 'well, I've got that consulting session next week and the weekend event that I'll get paid for..." Things ALWAYS fall through.

Labels and unions are tough nuts to crack. There's never any guarantee. Like Fiona Apple finished an album a couple of years ago but her label won't release it. It's like standards but they don't know how to market it, so they'll sit on it. (That and the fact she's nuts). They do this with a lot of bands. You need to figure out how to get your product distributed on a large enough level to be profitable. Lots of local bands will sell cd's out of their trunk hoping to be the next Jay-Z or Metallica, but even getting on college radio or a nationwide campus tour may require going through a national promoter.

Good luck! :cheers:

[int]

I'm with you on the earning part. The gun was jumped there with my current group. And we have a fundamental disagreement. I just think business is something that should be built from the ground up if it's gonna last. They're willing to write checks they can't cash and pray for the best.

Starting a business in writing a check already, so don't write too many checks with so much uncertainty, imo. I also subscribe to a philosophy of and risk can be lessened with education. I covered my responsibilities imo. They haven't done their homework.

Luckily, the financiers thus far have been us, but future investments are too uncomfortable for me. I'd at least start to push for grants and the like - as I'm a fan of free money. How is that a waste of time in the vid production world? Their logic baffles me.

*looks at ultrasound picture of a little girl on the way*

Cutting off the bills isn't gonna happen (although I'm sorely tempted to get rid of my cell phone. Actually, that's a long-term life goal of mine)., but I know what you're saying. Which is why I'm leaving the guys to do their thing and going my own way. I can manage my own bills at least and not worry about theirs.

I'll hit your second post later.

[int]

RE: Video - that's why I partnered, because I have no video skills (photo yes, video no). It's also something I'm realizing I have little interest in producing. I mean, I love movies and all, but I know more about the music industry and am more comfortable there. And always have been - it's something I never tire of, which is weird.

School is out. I did it and hated it. Law school is only an option at this point but after talking to a few people I might put it into the back of my mind again (although it falls back into my music interest, so hmmmm...).

As far as growing the computer gig - most of my network is from fellow bands, so I started there already. Problem is no musician ever has any money. :D Plus this is kind of a seperate gig for now. I'll be taking out an ad in my homeowners association newsletter to be drumming up business, so you can see where I'm getting at. Eventually, I'll be working with small businesses, which included restaraunts. I'll get to that point...

With videos out where to go?...record the bands and get the CDs to restaraunts. OK. I'll work on that. Restaraunts are small businesses. I can help them with their network and pitch music to the managers while I'm working. OK. Good idea. :)


And things ALWAYS fall through - which is a good point: if we've worked, we deserve pay. I ALWAYS get the bills that matter paid on time. I deserve the same. That's the #1 reason I'm bailing on the guys I'm with now. I worked for the state through college and had some savings and liberties to play with. I played and am losing too fast for comfort. The only solution with these guys is to take on excessive debt to pay off the (little) debt we have. I can cover my portion of the bet we took already, but no more. We were supposed to pay off that debt wiith intermediate sales while we complete the project, but for reasons beyond my personal control we can't. That wasn't the plan. Hence my position in bailing.

So now I've got to grow this computer consultant gig, which is only 20 hours a week according to my calculations. I'm expecting 25 and a few band gigs, leftover savings, and the fsking lottery for profit.

OK, well, not the lottery. Although I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night (edit: damnit. Slider beat me to it).


1st rule of business, don't spend money you don't have. Agreed.

RE: The Label. Oh man. Where to begin?

Since I've got a home studio I can take 2 positions in the recording process.

1.) Produce - I've got the ears, the brain, and the mouth when it comes to music. I can split recording costs with the band (I would only work with bands that have a demo for sale, merch for sale, and can turn a light profit at gigs. I figure if we work together to keep those profits saved in a money market or other low risk account for a few months/years they can save up enough to put in half or more for a recording).

2.) Engineer - with a decent producer we'll work hard for some good sounds, all we need is a place to record for a few weeks. Since I'm taking on the recording costs the band(s) can hire a producer for a grand or so. Again, it takes some time to build for the band, but if we can reach an agreement and a timeline (something most musicians have a hard time meeting) we can start us all on the right track.

So I can take either angle there. Then what?

Artwork and copies: outsourced. I've got a few hookups but need more.

After that it's ditribution. I've been trying to get my own CDs into local shops for 10 years now. I've had some successes and know why: good music and persistence. Outside of the local shops we need to go national: use the web (I've spent the lsat year in web design and web marketing - and learned a shitload). As long as the band has turned a profit (at least for me/the label) locally, the distributers will be more willing to take me on. If I can't do it I'd need a saled person who I'll probably have to unload 5-10% of sales profits to. We'll see then. After that the band(s) goes on tour and phase 2 begins.

[int]

Things We've Learned #1

1.) Don't spend money you don't have.

Just wanted to highlight it. I think it's self explanatory if you've been following this thread.



2.) Marketing only works if it translates into sales.

Press, word-of-mouth, rumours, etc... Unless you're an attention whore what does it matter?

[Spartan26]

Things We've Learned #1

1.) Don't spend money you don't have.
2.) Marketing only works if it translates into sales.

Press, word-of-mouth, rumours, etc... Unless you're an attention whore what does it matter?
Spending money you don't have should not be confused with spend money to make money. I've had a couple of signed contracts with reputable people figuring the whole thing to be money in the bank but you never know how far a step deal is going to take you.

2). Sometimes you don't really need sales to make money but to show others that there's a potential to make money, as a means for you to make money. E.g. About five-six years ago there was this company (TSX???) that owned some theaters & venues and did some promoting and then had some deal to supply campuses with crap, now I can't even remember what that was but they were set up with a well-defined market even though they hadn't made any money in that market.

So, I guess my big question to you is, "What do you want to do?" :huh: :huh: :huh:

I'll confess my ignorance of the music industry other than it seems pretty sleezy. No offense but even more so than TV & Film. It's actually in a label's best interest to have a bunch of one-hit wonders or groups that fizz out by the end of their third album. It's not like Budweiser trying to hook a beer drinker at 16 (technically 21, but who's kidding who?!) and keep him for life. If a band re-ups with a label, they'll get to the point where they can actually make some money, cutting into the label's margin.

When I said go back to school it wasn't with the intention of getting another degree. Lots of people in So Cal take extention classes from colleges and universities for mostly networking purposes. Sure learn a particular skill but your professor may be working in the area you want to be in or other in the class.

As far as the restaurants, I was meaning more live performances and getting bands in. But, if you could set up something with local and regional bands in a string of restaurants like Washington's, No Frills Grill, etc and get something going like Media Play has with local discs sold, that could be something. Maybe??????

I would think if you could get to the point where 19 year olds in bands biggest desire is to come to you to record, shot a video, distribute discs and have a few live gigs (all of course easier said than done) you could have a pretty good career launching people or at least building false dreams. Maybe more rewarding, too.

The MTV heavy rotation video days are long over but groups still need ways to market themselves. Is there a website like iFilms that shows indie bands? Computers are fast enough to where seeing one-four minutes of a band is feasible. I would think a website that has a bunch of quality unknowns or barely knowns would be something that you could attract sponsors. I'm sure they must have this. It'd be hard to keep it real with say And 1 or Puma saying, 'hey we reached 50,000 last month but we could hit 500,000 if you threw on Christina once in a while...'

I'd first try to figure out what do you want to do. What aspect appeals to you and then go from there.

[int]

Well what I want to do is pretty clear to me. I want to produce records and distribute them. That's my dream job.

But I realize what I'm up against so I need to take a different apporoach and I need to grow it on the side for now, hence my confusing way of execution. Besides, the groups I work with now are not going to be superstars, it's a much smaller niche market with groups that have been around for a long time. But you're right, the sleeze is there with the big guys.

I still have my school contacts - it would be superfluous for me to take classes at this point. I just graduated a year ago. :)

Restaraunts are a big thing. I would need a place for CD release parties and the like. Getting a CD on rotation over the speakers could be cool too. B)

lol @ building false dreams. Well, we've all got them. But yea, helping launch careers is a goal.

There's plenty of web-based indie band promotion sites. I could get people to my site (as I know how to do that) and subsequently get a few sponsors, but that'd be digressing from my main goal. Plus it involves other companies into mine and that's been a frustration before. I subscribe to the K.I.S.S. philosophy. :)

[greenintp]

I think INTP's are at high risk of not using their heads when it comes to their own business ideas. This is an area where we have to remind ourselves to remain detached. Consider a business idea at a distance as though it were someone elses idea.

I have found many INTP business ideas (including some of my own) are to far ahead of their time to be successful.

[adamaw11]

Have any of you guys done a business degree at uni? I'm just wondering if it would be worthwhile before getting too serious about starting a business.

I also wonder if its the sort of thing an INTP would eventually find painfully boring. Lately I seem to be imagining there would be a few interesting things about studying business.

[int]

I started taking business classes but quickly got bored. My degree is in economics.