ANNIHILATE THOSE WHO INSULT ISLAM!!!

[Nyairj]

Some of you might have seen the posters from the Muslim protests at the Danish embassy in London. I found a 10+ minute video (http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2006/03/video_of_cartoo.php) of the protests, and it's really interesting stuff. Keep in mind, all this is about some fairly tame satirical cartoons published in a local paper. Here's what one protester had to say:



"Jihad in the name of Allah! Allah Akhbar! Allah Akhbar! Death to you, by God! May Allah bomb you! May Usama bin Laden bomb you! We love Usama! Usama we love you! Usama bin Laden and Zawahari are men! They will bomb you, and Allah will be with them! We will take revenge on you! Allah Akhbar! Allah Akhbar! May they bomb Denmark, so we can invade their country! And take their wives as war booty! Allah Akhbar!"


40 percent of British Muslims want sharia law (http://telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/19/nsharia19.xml), by the way. And if this report (http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/washington_quarterly/v027/27.3savage.html) is correct, the cultural enrichment of Europe has only just begun:


By 2015, Europe's Muslim population is expected to double, whereas Europe's non-Muslim population is projected to fall by at least 3.5 percent.12 Looking further ahead, conservative projections estimate that, compared to today's 5 percent, Muslims will comprise at least 20 percent of Europe's population by 2050. Some even predict that one-fourth of France's population could be Muslim by 2025 and that, if trends continue, Muslims could outnumber non-Muslims in France and perhaps in all of western Europe by mid-century.13 Although these projections seem incredible at first glance, they may not be far off the mark. At present, more than 15 percent of the 16-25-year-old cohort in France is Muslim; in Brussels, 25 percent of the population under the age of 25 is Muslim. A factor in this equation that is as important as the dramatic increase in the Muslim population is the dramatic [End Page 28] decline of the general European population, which, according to UN projections, will drop by more than 100 million from 728 million in 2000 to approximately 600 million, and possibly as low as 565 million, by 2050.14

[distraction tactics]

Sharia law, eh? An Ontario court recently ruled against it (which doesn't say much for Canadian 'multiculturalism') - I wonder if UK Muslims will have more success in the future.

The rest of that sounds like a lot of fearmongering.

[Lee]

ooooh, I can't wait.

[ptGatsby]

The rest of that sounds like a lot of fearmongering.


Well, I reckon that the quote is about the same as hearing a Christian talking about 'Nuking the whole region [...] Turn it into a glass sheet'.

I love the 40% want Sharia law, followed by it taking another 40 years to get half+ of the population.

Why, at that rate, 20% of the people will want Sharia laws by 2050! EGAD!

[Serotonin]

I think it's a good thing that the media is quoting these crude viewpoints.

Don't think for a minute that in the bars, clubs, and social gatherings of the West that such base sentiments aren't as widely expressed or held towards Muslims. The only difference is that the Muslims aren't scared of putting them in the public domain. They are rightly condemned for it, but in the process it may force the crude Westerners to reconsider their own sentiments, and truly evolve their attitude to politeness and humanitarianism.

Of course, when such attitudes spill over into violent acts in the name of Islam, the more war-inclined Westerners will be engaged to retaliate, thus perpetuating ongoing conflict, and refining human behaviour, through natural selection as a result of internecine actions, to an eventually more peaceful homo sapiens. Not in our lifetimes, though.

[philonightmare]

why is it that the idiots of any group often have the loudest voice... makes me wonder.

[Pooja]

Hmm... so when young islamic boys/men blow themselves up (and others with then :/ ), in the name of Allah, they're actually just propogating Natural Selection... good, we can do with fewer nutcases in the future!

[mgb]

Sharia law, eh? An Ontario court recently ruled against it (which doesn't say much for Canadian 'multiculturalism') - I wonder if UK Muslims will have more success in the future.

The rest of that sounds like a lot of fearmongering.

I don't know if it's as much of a slight against multiculturalism as it making sure the Canadian laws are the laws of the land.

[distraction tactics]

I don't know if it's as much of a slight against multiculturalism as it making sure the Canadian laws are the laws of the land.

With the minimal extent of the proposed system, Canadian law would not have been usurped and it would have been a gesture (however weak) towards the Muslim community. A common argument I heard against Sharia law was that women would be unfairly judged - which is a valid concern - but the reality is they are going to face pressure and derision in their families and communities regardless of the system.

I am not disappointed it was denied - not by a long shot - but I don't know how mainstream Canadian sentiment can be geared so favourably towards multiculturalism and then pull a move like that.

[mgb]

I suppose at some point, human rights end up trumping religious laws here.

[KuJo]

i was really baffled by the outrage at those cartoons. I looked for almost an hour to find the cartoons, when i had actually found them on the first site i went to, but unwittingly thought they were just too tame to cause this kind of an outrage. Its ridiculous, and with the Muslim community becoming a larger part of the population of the world, its frightening to think what a very harsh cartoon would cause.

[Zephyrus055]

Hail King John Sobeiski?

[ohnoaninfp]

i was really baffled by the outrage at those cartoons. I looked for almost an hour to find the cartoons, when i had actually found them on the first site i went to, but unwittingly thought they were just too tame to cause this kind of an outrage. Its ridiculous, and with the Muslim community becoming a larger part of the population of the world, its frightening to think what a very harsh cartoon would cause.

Where did you find the cartoon? I am interested in seeing what the whole mess is about.

[Nyairj]

You can see the Cartoons in Wikipedia's article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_Cartoons). The English translations are in the body of the article.

[PsiKik]

I thought the one about the suicide bomber arriving at the gates of paradise only to find out they had run out of virgins was quite funny.

[ApeTheDog]

We have to outmarket them, and offer suicide bombers 80 prostitutes in real life - no virgins in the afterlife can compete with that.

I think the outrage these muslims feel over their religion being insulted is a direct result of how extremely important it is to their identity. They are poor, they have no quality of life, and not a single thing to be proud of EXCEPT that they are Allah's people. Imagine an attack on everything you ever were proud of, and the only thing in the world that you think of as positive in your shitty inescapeable life - you'd stagger for less.

[wildcat]

With the minimal extent of the proposed system, Canadian law would not have been usurped and it would have been a gesture (however weak) towards the Muslim community. A common argument I heard against Sharia law was that women would be unfairly judged - which is a valid concern - but the reality is they are going to face pressure and derision in their families and communities regardless of the system.

I am not disappointed it was denied - not by a long shot - but I don't know how mainstream Canadian sentiment can be geared so favourably towards multiculturalism and then pull a move like that.
This idiotic word multiculturalism can only be an expression of soft minded individuals. It is not just that it is an euphemism. From the semantic point the expression is ludicrous. These obliging politicians are pathetic. A mixture of ignorant bliss and extreme political naivete is
dangerous.

[distraction tactics]

This idiotic word multiculturalism can only be an expression of soft minded individuals. It is not just that it is an euphemism. From the semantic point the expression is ludicrous. These obliging politicians are pathetic. A mixture of ignorant bliss and extreme political naivete is
dangerous.

...now that the universe is once more set aright...

[songbird36]

I read this interesting opinion piece last week on the controversy, and it highlights some interesting facts regarding Jyllands-Posten's agenda in publishing these cartoons to begin with, and also the way in which the global controversy was fuelled and kept alive by a group of conservative Imams in Denmark (not to mention the rival newspapers, and "free speech" obsessed bloggers):

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/02/08/denmark/index.html

Overreaction on all sides, I would say.

[Snowflake]

I don't remember where I heard this, but it made me laugh like nothing else.

I mean, if Islam is so superior, then why can't the Islamic God defend it/he/her-self and Islam?

[wildcat]

...now that the universe is once more set aright...
Canada is set aright.

[dubbeltop]

who cares about islam /exactly everybody which doesnt know anything about it including me so lets study islam and realize that islam is just the same as christianity and that people have perverted it for there own f. agenda.

[charred_heart]

From http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/02/08/denmark/index1.html

The prohibition in the Koran is clear: The Prophet is so beautiful that no human hand can render him with justice.
This is indicative of how inaccurate and ill-informed the west is about Islam. Which is why they turned it into a free speech issue.
This is not about making fun of the prophet or Islam. People are entitled to their opinions. To understand this issue you have to know why there are no images of the prophet and what an artist's impression or depiction means (as opposed to a satire)

Muslims do not depict any of the prophets because:
-It would tie divinity to certain races or idividuals with certain physical traits.
and
-So that muslims remember the prophets by their deeds and not by how they looked on a good day.

The cartoons are the artists' depiction of what the prophet mohammed looks like. What's a depiction? Dictionary reference:

To describe or put forward (a person or thing) as an embodiment of a specified quality
Basically a few of the the artists presented the prophet mohammed as the embodiment of terrorism. I won't go along with those who say they should be 'punished', but I will not let it slide as well. I voted for taking the pictures down at the newspaper's website last october, and I stopped buying Danish goods because I didn't appreciate the defensiveness of the Danes towards these bigots. I wasn't asking for legal action, but the fact that the people in Denmark didn't see that depicting all muslims as terrorists was distasteful did shock me.

[Purple-Silver Fox]

I think committing random attacks and citing the quran as motivation for it is much more distasteful for the religion. And yet, the concept of terrorism enjoys some popularity and very little open discouragement in the muslim population.

[charred_heart]

I think committing random attacks and citing the quran as motivation for it is much more distasteful for the religion. And yet, the concept of terrorism enjoys some popularity and very little open discouragement in the muslim population.
Very little open discouragement? So the Iraqis and Saudis like getting bombed by crazy fanatics?

I'm sure you have articles pointing to this trend. Probably by right wing 'experts' who know all about countries with muslim populations - such as France or Italy :whistle:

[outcast]

why is it that the idiots of any group often have the loudest voice... makes me wonder.

:thumbup:

I couldn't have said it better myself...

[Purple-Silver Fox]

Very little open discouragement? So the Iraqis and Saudis like getting bombed by crazy fanatics?

I'm sure you have articles pointing to this trend. Probably by right wing 'experts' who know all about countries with muslim populations - such as France or Italy :whistle:
I do not deny that the main media focus on types à la Abu Hamza, but where are their counterparts? The only disapproval of the violent protests against the infamous cartoon I know of happened in a Jordanian newspaper, and the guy publishing them lost his job. The muslim populations in European countries mostly stay silent, while sizable minorities in their communities promote stronger implementation of religious texts, to the point where young men are trained for armed action in foreign camps. There is lack of a visible movement for integration, and in this mediatized culture that means that people assume there is none.

[charred_heart]

I do not deny that the main media focus on types à la Abu Hamza, but where are their counterparts? The only disapproval of the violent protests against the infamous cartoon I know of happened in a Jordanian newspaper, and the guy publishing them lost his job. The muslim populations in European countries mostly stay silent, while sizable minorities in their communities promote stronger implementation of religious texts, to the point where young men are trained for armed action in foreign camps. There is lack of a visible movement for integration, and in this mediatized culture that means that people assume there is none.
My father, who is a doctor by profession, just came from Afghanistan last week. He didn't go to blow up Americans, he went with a group to help the hospitals over there with supplies and expertise.
It's not much against the massive media onslaught on muslims, but it doesn't help when you assume we're all evil.

[Purple-Silver Fox]

My father, who is a doctor by profession, just came from Afghanistan last week. He didn't go to blow up Americans, he went with a group to help the hospitals over there with supplies and expertise.
It's not much against the massive media onslaught on muslims, but it doesn't help when you assume we're all evil.
I know, but the apathy of the silent majority suggests silent approval. Normally one would expect them to care enough about their reputation to at least make a statement for the media, but even that comes only after some prodding.

[charred_heart]

I know, but the apathy of the silent majority suggests silent approval. Normally one would expect them to care enough about their reputation to at least make a statement for the media, but even that comes only after some prodding.
Abu Mazen's counterpart:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/20/reform.preacher.ap/index.html

[Purple-Silver Fox]

Abu Mazen's counterpart:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/03/20/reform.preacher.ap/index.html
Great! But as the article says he's considered controversial.. It's a good development though.

[charred_heart]

Great! But as the article says he's considered controversial.. It's a good development though.
He's as contreversial as Oprah Winfrey :)
Some people (hint: long beards) don't like him, but overall Amro Khalid is very popular not because he is trying to introduce modern ideas but because he proved they were in Islam all along. This is in regards to ideas such as free will, freedom of expression (to a certain extent: public displays of a sexual nature is where the line is drawn), equal rights to all humans, the importance of precision and the importance of knowledge. He is a good researcher and does not bend facts to support his views which is why the contreversy always centers on his character rather than his material