"Why Nerds are Unpopular"

[Niflheimian]

I liked this (long) article. While its intention was not to describe the INTP type, I do believe it's reflected here, at least partially.
http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

[Claverhouse]

Whilst, for obvious reasons I neither attended an American school nor ever wished to, I did quite enjoy the film Heathers occasionally shown on TV.

Apart from the grossly cop-out ending, of course.




Claverhouse :ph34r:


Better to go out with a Bang than a Whimper.

[cjs55]

Interesting read. I personally didn't give a shit whatsoever in high school, despite definitely being a nerd. It was good because I was fairly happy and had a close circle of friends that were cool. It was bad because I was an utter misanthrope otherwise which results in me being maladjusted today socially. I have never 'made' friends in my life, and I really have no clue how to do it. Never even asked a girl out, which was absolutely fine in high school for me. Now I realize it would have been much easier to practice that sort of thing back then (when incompetence was expected and mutual) than it will be now.

[PsiKik]

Nerds are not popular because theyre generaly nonconformists. Group identity is very important to teens.

[Arcael]

I suppose I would be considered a nerd.

I dunno if my school is out of whack or what, but I some of my best friends were of the more popular crowd. I know that almost everyone knew who I was, but then again I went to a small high school and I had been in the district for 11 some odd years.

All in all High school was pretty worthless educational wise due to the coach teachers, but it was a very important time to connect with others and evolve into a being that can socialize without getting stressed.

I'm a little overweight and I would say im a computer nerd, but i dated the prom queen and the sophomore/junior class president. Too bad the class president is engaged, she was a keeper :(

[flan2dave]

The article reminded me of the sense I got around my junior year, when I was more around the intelligent students and those more intelligent than I, so called "nerds." I did not hang out with these people usually, I did not know them very well (hardly any group for that matter), but I could admire from a distance their rich souls with dreams and interests motivating them to tough out whatever game the school system threw at them, or whatever social isolation it caused them, so they'll be able to live out their personal aspirations. Their lives had meaning, so they could smirk and laugh at their busy schedules instead of getting overwhelmed by it. Not that they weren't stressed, they were very stressed. The difference is they pocessed the maturity and foresight to handle it.

Ok, I am exxagerating to be sure (maybe they all just commited suicide), but I wanted to get the point across that I felt something intangible was missing and it had something to do with this idealized picture that had some dwelling in my subconcious.

Likewise to the present, prolonged time spent in school makes me thirsty for "real" work.

[Arioch]

I remember readin that ariticle quite some time ago.

I still find it amusing yet it bears little resemblence to my own high school days. Especially since we don't group ourselves over here so there was no "nerds" table. Also no jocks, cheerleaders or whatnot.

[INTrPosr]

I think that being dubbed a "nerd" is relative. I grew up in rural Oklahoma, where there was limited activities. There was no debate team, chess team, science team, etc. Therefore, I had athletics as my only outlet. I may have been considered a nerd while in grade school, but once I began playing school sports, I would have probably been deemed a jock. Yet, I wear the term computer geek with pride.

[floyd]

in the original script for heathers, he blows up the school.

i speculate there may be an inverse correlation between intelligence and athletic ability. i think this is why some smart people may be unpopular because athletic ability correlates to physical health, which correlates to physical attractiveness (which in grade school/high school is all important).

if you read the whole article you can replace freaks with intps, and nerds with intjs. i think the author of that article is an intj.

[booyalab]

[quote="floyd"]i speculate there may be an inverse correlation between intelligence and athletic ability. i think this is why some smart people may be unpopular because athletic ability correlates to physical health, which correlates to physical attractiveness (which in grade school/high school is all important).
quote]

I can think of several examples that contradict that theory.
1.My dad is the most intelligent person in my immediate family (INTP), job:electrical engineer, has 2 patents
I dont know if he was popular in school or not, but throughout college he was a very excellent runner (ran the twin cities marathon every year for 20 years) and almost got to try out for the olympics. He's also very good in every sport I've seen him play.
2. I'm an INTP(duh) I think my IQ is somewhere between above average and genius. I'm very athletic, last summer I rode my bike to work and back 5 times a week, 8.8 miles each way. I also run long distance and I enjoy water-skiing and downhill skiing. I also played soccer for about 5 years
3. All of my dad's brothers and his one sister are very athletic and all of them have PhDs. One of my uncles runs some of those 100+mile marathons they have in Africa and he's in his 60s. He's a civil engineer working for the government on a military base in Korea, I'm sure not just any idiot can do that.
4. My brother with an IQ of about 130 was very active in athletics: wrestling, long distance, baseball, football, all through high school.
5. I know one person with a 190 IQ who is absolutely obsessed with martial arts, and I know another person with a 179 IQ who is in the Marines special forces- and played soccer and baseball all of his life.

[booyalab]

i speculate there may be an inverse correlation between intelligence and athletic ability. i think this is why some smart people may be unpopular because athletic ability correlates to physical health, which correlates to physical attractiveness (which in grade school/high school is all important).


I can think of several examples that contradict that theory.
1.My dad is the most intelligent person in my immediate family (INTP), job:electrical engineer, has 2 patents
I dont know if he was popular in school or not, but throughout college he was a very excellent runner (ran the twin cities marathon every year for 20 years) and almost got to try out for the olympics. He's also very good in every sport I've seen him play.
2. I'm an INTP(duh) I think my IQ is somewhere between above average and genius. I'm very athletic, last summer I rode my bike to work and back 5 times a week, 8.8 miles each way. I also run long distance and I enjoy water-skiing and downhill skiing. I also played soccer for about 5 years
3. All of my dad's brothers and his one sister are very athletic and all of them have PhDs. One of my uncles runs some of those 100+mile marathons they have in Africa and he's in his 60s. He's a civil engineer working for the government on a military base in Korea, I'm sure not just any idiot can do that.
4. My brother with an IQ of about 130 was very active in athletics: wrestling, long distance, baseball, football, all through high school.
5. I know one person with a 190 IQ who is absolutely obsessed with martial arts, and I know another person with a 179 IQ who is in the Marines special forces- and played soccer and baseball all of his life

[floyd]

exceptions don't make the rule, only a study of sufficent sample size would answer this question.

also if the inverse correlation exists (and it might not), i don't think intelligence causes poor athletic ability - i think you can be very smart and very intelligent (in fact improving physical health enhances intelligence test scoring in research, and i agree there are intelligent great athletes) - it just means, in general, the two often coexist for some reason.

[Niflheimian]

i speculate there may be an inverse correlation between intelligence and athletic ability. i think this is why some smart people may be unpopular because athletic ability correlates to physical health, which correlates to physical attractiveness (which in grade school/high school is all important)

This might be because the faculties of the brain dealing with intelligence are more developed than those of athletic ability in "smart" people. As a rule, most people concerned (/obsessed) with intelligence and developing it are less likely to maintain good physical health and/or apperance. If someone is spending most of their time (say, 80%) in academic or "intelligent" pursuits, that leaves 20% for physical activities.
{Yeah, that's not the best example, but it gives you an idea.]

[int]

I'm really more of a dork than a nerd.

[floyd]

i think there may be other reasons, like maybe navigating life is easier for smart people which causes them to be more out of shape because they never have to strain. also, since intellectuals are more often ectomorphs, and therefore thin, their being 'out of shape' is not as apparent as it is for a mesomorph who becomes obese when they are out of shape.

[Division56]

I think the percentages of smart people and the percentages of fit people are low, so there's an even lower probability of a smart fit person.

:)

[Slider]

Nerds are not popular because theyre generaly nonconformists. Group identity is very important to teens.

you seriously think this? c'mon man, let's think about this for a second. nerds would probably like to think they're non-conformists, but the majority are not. maybe they're non-conformists according to wot socially-accepted or 'cool' behavior is but that's about it. the stereotypical nerd is involved in nerd clubs (like chess or A-Team or math clubs). they're conformists to the definition of nerdism. why else would those "how much of a geek are you?" tests be so popular?

I can't remember how many times I passed this group of three IB star-trek nerds struggling up the stairs with their freakin' too-big-for-carry-on rollie-backpacks and talking about the newest mousepad. ahh, they were such good targets when I was bored . . . one of the skank bastards sold me out to my journo teacher though. she'd been gone one day and we didn't have a sub (since we were the responsible, newspaper kids heh) - my friend and I set up a pseudo-knife throwing competition (using the copy-editing cutters) and using pictures on the bulletin board as a target. yah, its all fun n games til the conforming nerd tattles . . .

so sorry I interrupted yer nerd-party, I just wanted to clarify that nerds were social slaves too. the only non-conformists are those who don't claim any group. you can go back to watching star trek or doing math for fun or building yer robot or talking about how cool anthony michael hall is or wotever it is nerds do for fun.

[coffeezombie]

Yeah, good point, Slider. If you go to the right school, the nerds might be the majority, and the jocks and preps could be the minority. Nerds would most likely engage in the same "superiority" behavior that goes on in most schools. The jocks and preps would be hurt that they did not get invited to the Sci-Fi Channel Stargate parties on Friday night.

[booyalab]

I think the percentages of smart people and the percentages of fit people are low, so there's an even lower probability of a smart fit person.

:)

I was going to say something along these lines...you beat me to it :rant: More specifically that people with an inherent athletic talent are probably as uncommon as people with an inherently high IQ. (I know it's redundant to say inherent, but I haven't seen anyone specify being in shape vs. a predisposition towards athleticism) Anyone can get in shape if they want, so a better question might be..why don't people with high IQs choose to be in shape as often?

[coffeezombie]

I was going to say something along these lines...you beat me to it :rant: More specifically that people with an inherent athletic talent are probably as uncommon as people with an inherently high IQ. (I know it's redundant to say inherent, but I haven't seen anyone specify being in shape vs. a predisposition towards athleticism) Anyone can get in shape if they want, so a better question might be..why don't people with high IQs choose to be in shape as often?

I know in that my case, I don't put an enormous amount of effort into trying to be intellectual. I enjoy learning new things and engaging in intellectual behavior. I think athletic people enjoy being athletic and engaging in athletic activity. They don't have to "try" to be this way. Perhaps our brains our only programmed to have a limited amount of activities come naturally to us.

I also think, in a sense, that as children, we tend to adopt one survival method to cope with the external world, and we become fixated upon this method. It isn't psychologically efficient to engage in multiple adaptation behaviors as children. This has been talked about some on Enneagram boards.

[CosmicDust]

I was in my high school class's "nerd herd," but they weren't all into anime and sci-fi and stuff - they were the AP kids, basically. I went to one of their parties once. I was also in a couple science student clubs in high school. Now it's TKD and personality forums, with my involvement in TKD decreasing after I discovered the world of message boards which was overall more up my alley (more suited to introvert/head-in-the-clouds sorts than an athletic club). I definitely have sheepish tendencies, but I'm too unmotivated and uninterested to completely immerse myself in all aspects of nerd culture. I didn't score very high on the nerd test I took, though, because I never really got into Monty Python or sci-fi/fantasy much.

[Claverhouse]

I didn't score very high on the nerd test I took, though, because I never really got into Monty Python or sci-fi/fantasy much.

Oh yes. Both are...

:zzz: :ph34r:

[ Apart from one sketch 'Yorkshire', in which some of the inhabitants of that sturdy county outdo each other in whinging about their rotten starts in life: very exact, but I doubt if foreigners would see the joke; & perhaps Tolkien, although he's rather too popular just now ].

On the other hand, perhaps the test was outdated, perhaps these two things only attracted the nerds of yesteryear... Perhaps the truly modern nerd, the thrusting young up-to-the-minute nerd of here & now has discarded these stereotypes and embraced ( stickily ) new stereotypes to define himself or herself with.



Claverhouse :ph34r:


[ I don't wear glasses myself, so without any rancour I can ask why is nerdhood typified by the wearing of glasses. Is it imagined that clever people and spectacles are inextricably linked ? I've met some extremely stupid people who wore glasses ].

[ Then again, I've met a large number of extremely stupid people. I can't think of anything that they necessarily had in common apart from their stupidity ].

[BritainOphira]

[ I don't wear glasses myself, so without any rancour I can ask why is nerdhood typified by the wearing of glasses. Is it imagined that clever people and spectacles are inextricably linked ? I've met some extremely stupid people who wore glasses ].

[ Then again, I've met a large number of extremely stupid people. I can't think of anything that they necessarily had in common apart from their stupidity ].

Maybe it's because nerds have notoriously bad hand-eye coordination and therefore can't really get the hang of contacts. I know I can't... :blush:

[Claverhouse]

But you're not a nerd...

:D



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Arioch]

[ I don't wear glasses myself, so without any rancour I can ask why is nerdhood typified by the wearing of glasses. Is it imagined that clever people and spectacles are inextricably linked ? I've met some extremely stupid people who wore glasses ].

[ Then again, I've met a large number of extremely stupid people. I can't think of anything that they necessarily had in common apart from their stupidity ].

Maybe it's because nerds have notoriously bad hand-eye coordination and therefore can't really get the hang of contacts. I know I can't... :blush:

Someone showed me how she put her contacts in on webcam. I think I'd rather wear glasses. Well I also think that I would look good in glasses but either way I wouldn't want to wear contacts.

Especially not after seeing that horror show

[BritainOphira]

But you're not a nerd...

:D



Claverhouse :ph34r:

Academic team, science olympiad, NHS, Beta, NAHS, forensics (speech/debate), trips over seemingly flat carpet, actually likes math, etc. I think I qualify...

[jittus rye]

I always that being a nerd was cool. Nerds at the school I used to attend were definentally the cool guys.

[shaytana]

I always that being a nerd was cool. Nerds at the school I used to attend were definentally the cool guys.

It's the Geeks that are cool around here, the nerds are still the stereo type.

[s]

I did not "fit in" anywhere in high school nor do I now.

I looked like a prep to many, but wore my dr martens before they were normal and wore crazy thrift clothes when I felt like it. I loved UIL poetry and swimming, Saturday Science Academy and fashion.

My friends were everyone from nerd hackers (before hacking was sorta cool), jocks, preps, and those in between.

I love nerds and nerd interests, but no one would ever pin me as one, much less anything else.

Popularity is sometimes a confidence issue. Those people in my high school who thought they were popular usually had a nice car, permissive parents, extroverted confidence, and a head start on puberty. I thought most of them were boring and stupid... oh, wait, I think that about almost everyone.

My reunion is coming up... *sigh* I wonder if I will remember many names.

[jittus rye]

I am friends with every social group as well. Kind of more fun that way, gives you a variety to go and watch. Wait a minute.. I am friends with almost everyone,.. What the hell.?

[Lucas]

there may be an inverse correlation between intelligence and athletic ability.

I can think of several examples that contradict that theory.
1................

You can't imply causation from correlation. There seems to be a negative relationship between intelligence and athletic ability. There are exceptions, but to me that seems to be the general relationship. Although to a certain extent athletic ability isn't something you're born with and wouldn't have anything to do with intelligence.

I think 'nerds' 'popular kids' and 'jocks' are just cultural schemas that we have created, and thus have been molded into these categories growing up. It isn't about being inherently 'athletic' or 'smart'.

The article best sums it up like this.....
"In general, people outside some very demanding field don't realize the extent to which success depends on constant (though often unconscious) effort. For example, most people seem to consider the ability to draw as some kind of innate quality, like being tall. In fact, most people who "can draw" like drawing, and have spent many hours doing it; that's why they're good at it. Likewise, popular isn't just something you are or you aren't, but something you make yourself."




smart people may be unpopular because athletic ability correlates to physical health, which correlates to physical attractiveness

I disagree that physical health is the most important factor in attractiveness. There is no denying that physical beauty is mainly genetic. I also disagree that popularity is a result of being attractive. Hogwash.

-Lucas :)

[jimkopelli]

Academic team, science olympiad, NHS, Beta, NAHS, forensics (speech/debate), trips over seemingly flat carpet, actually likes math, etc. I think I qualify...
Yay for A-team! Math Club, Science Club, Bridge Comp, etc.
People who think nerds are unpopular are talking to the wrong people. The group I hung out with (actually, when I was back in my town last weekend I went on a Science Club trip with the group in question) has decided that there are nerds, and then there, lower on the food chain, are the geeks. Not computer geeks, mind you, they're actually most of them nerds. I mean the ones that even the nerds won't hang out with if given a choice. Your social outcasts social outcast. The tiers that like to think of themselves as upper (preps, jocks) tend to class the geeks with the nerds, and that brings the nerds down.

[booyalab]

You can't imply causation from correlation. There seems to be a negative relationship between intelligence and athletic ability. There are exceptions, but to me that seems to be the general relationship. Although to a certain extent athletic ability isn't something you're born with and wouldn't have anything to do with intelligence.

I think 'nerds' 'popular kids' and 'jocks' are just cultural schemas that we have created, and thus have been molded into these categories growing up. It isn't about being inherently 'athletic' or 'smart'.

The article best sums it up like this.....
"In general, people outside some very demanding field don't realize the extent to which success depends on constant (though often unconscious) effort. For example, most people seem to consider the ability to draw as some kind of innate quality, like being tall. In fact, most people who "can draw" like drawing, and have spent many hours doing it; that's why they're good at it. Likewise, popular isn't just something you are or you aren't, but something you make yourself."



Do have any knowledge of genetic traits? If someone wants to be a sprinter, but they have little fast-twitch muscles in their legs (obviously genetic) they're NOT going to be good no matter how much they train.
Conversely, if someone wants to be a long distance runner, but they are born with a condition like my friend Chris- who has an extremely high ratio of fast-twitch muscles to slow-twitch muscles, they're going to have shit endurance. Have you ever noticed where most of the African sprinters and distance runners are from? The vast majority of distance runners are from West Africa, the vast majority of sprinters are from Eastern Africa. Also, if they didn't inherit lungs that process oxygen in a super-efficient way, they can't run long distances.

Raw intelligence, or capacity for learning, is also innate for the most part. Identical twins are more likely to obtain the same IQ score than twins from 2 separate eggs with different genetic make-ups.
They've done brain scans comparing the activity of low-IQ individuals and high-IQ individuals. Those with low IQs show a lot more stress in the brain while trying to work out a problem than those with high IQs. So while someone with a low IQ could solve the same problem as someone with a high IQ, it's going to take a lot more time and effort. Since we've established that capacity for learning is innate, it follows that since a part of the brain deals with spatiality, some can learn better visually than others and that contributes tremendously to an innate ability to draw. This does not inhibit anyone without that capacity from learning, it just means it will come more easily to some than others...which will make it ENJOYABLE (because their brain isn't under stress)..and of course they'll want to do it more if they enjoy it, like you said.

Since we've established that everyone is not granted the same limitless talents in athleticism and intelligence, it makes sense that people don't just randomly choose their social categories.
So since intelligence and athletic ability are mostly genetic, it would make sense that if they're inversely correlated, the reason would be genetic. In reality, since it's unlikely you'll be born either very smart or very good at athletics, it's even more unlikely you'll have both...like div already mentioned first. If you try to read more of the posts, we won't have back-tracking like this.

[Slider]

wot's the difference between a nerd and a geek? silly me, I thought they were the same thing . . .

[Laeskis]

I went to a school for nerds, and there, I became something different and odd....I'm an ex-nerd, or some sort of nerd hybrid...I don't look or act like a nerd.
Somehow I was regarded as 'cool' in that environment...
Saying that somehow makes my tongue feel dirty.

I didn't recant my nerdhood, I just lost it somewhere. I was definitely a nerd until I went to that place...

I miss being a nerd. Now I appear to be strange and wierd without any obvious reason. It doesn't sit well with other people.

I might be a nerd at heart, even though I wear my leather and my tattoos. (they are tatoos with class people...designs and such, no skulls or naked angels or snakes or anything like that...and I don't dress biker style, so don't let your imaginations run amuck!)

If you're a nerd be proud of it!

[gypseymothlee]

wot's the difference between a nerd and a geek? silly me, I thought they were the same thing . . .

A nerd is a smart person who doesn't fit in in most social situations. :nerd:
A geek bites the head off of chicken in sideshows. :D

[Dunearhp]

Mmm, Chicken. :)

[Boozer]

I went to a school for nerds, and there, I became something different and odd....I'm an ex-nerd, or some sort of nerd hybrid...

This is what happened to me. I was a nerd until I went to a nerd high school, there I was actually cool, probably because I didn't try as hard as everyone else. I also learned how to dress (sort of), and realized I wasn't innately repellent to the opposite sex. Once I got to college I receded some, but never as badly as before, I had learned to embrace my nerdhood and my lazyness. Now I work in IT so I'm kind of cool again (in comparison). I just wish the girls around here knew it.

That's one thing I miss about school, forced social interaction was the only way I ever met women, at least long enough to talk to them and lose my fear of rejection from strangers.

----


As far I know
Nerd=smart + social outcast
Geek=social outcast

[Lucas]

Do have any knowledge of genetic traits? If someone wants to be a sprinter, but they have little fast-twitch muscles in their legs (obviously genetic) they're NOT going to be good no matter how much they train.
Conversely, if someone wants to be a long distance runner, but they are born with a condition like my friend Chris- who has an extremely high ratio of fast-twitch muscles to slow-twitch muscles, they're going to have shit endurance. Have you ever noticed where most of the African sprinters and distance runners are from? The vast majority of distance runners are from West Africa, the vast majority of sprinters are from Eastern Africa. Also, if they didn't inherit lungs that process oxygen in a super-efficient way, they can't run long distances.

Sure sounds like genetic determinism to me. We're not talking about the elite of the elite here. We're talking mainly about high school athletes. Any normal person can train to reach the level of high school athletes. You make it sound like you either have it or you don't.



Raw intelligence, or capacity for learning, is also innate for the most part. Identical twins are more likely to obtain the same IQ score than twins from 2 separate eggs with different genetic make-ups.
They've done brain scans comparing the activity of low-IQ individuals and high-IQ individuals. Those with low IQs show a lot more stress in the brain while trying to work out a problem than those with high IQs. So while someone with a low IQ could solve the same problem as someone with a high IQ, it's going to take a lot more time and effort. Since we've established that capacity for learning is innate, it follows that since a part of the brain deals with spatiality, some can learn better visually than others and that contributes tremendously to an innate ability to draw. This does not inhibit anyone without that capacity from learning, it just means it will come more easily to some than others...which will make it ENJOYABLE (because their brain isn't under stress)..and of course they'll want to do it more if they enjoy it, like you said.

Uh, ok.



Since we've established that everyone is not granted the same limitless talents in athleticism and intelligence, it makes sense that people don't just randomly choose their social categories.

I never said they randomly choose social categories. Without the schema of 'nerd' already in place, it is unlikely that people would fit these characteristics as much as they do. That is, unless you think nerds and jocks are part of human nature???. Many indigenous peoples from all over the globe don't have these categories nor anything like them. Yes, people have certain propensities for things, like languages, math, athletics, etc. These predispositions are molded by culture to fit into the whole popular vs nerd stereotype. Which by the way is what my last post was about, don't talk to me about back-tracking booya.



So since intelligence and athletic ability are mostly genetic, it would make sense that if they're inversely correlated, the reason would be genetic. In reality, since it's unlikely you'll be born either very smart or very good at athletics, it's even more unlikely you'll have both...like div already mentioned first. If you try to read more of the posts, we won't have back-tracking like this.

According to this, the most intelligent people are the least physically fit, and the most athletic are the least intelligent. NOT TRUE. In many sports, high intelligence is very important, and is not just about the amount of fast twitch muscles available.

But please enlighten me booya, you seem to have a lot of answers. Scholars have been debating this issue for a long time, and in all honesty, I'm curious as to what is the real story.

-Lucas

[Dunearhp]

Fast-twitch muscle and slow-twitch muscle are also partly determined by environment and exercise. Astronauts end up with a larger proportion of fast-twitch muscle after any prolonged space mission, which then reduces once they get used to gravity again.

Martial artists generally have a high proportion of fast-twitch muscle. Weightlifters generally have a high proportion of slow-twitch muscle. It has more to do with the nature of their exercise than genetics.

I think that at the high school level, genetics has minimal impact on athletic ability.

[Dr. Caligari]

I don't think I was smart enough to be considered a nerd in high school. I believe nerds are becoming more and more popular nowadays, or at least dressing like a stereotypical one is, thanks to "emo".

[int]

That reminds me of a joke.

How many emo kids does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Who cares. Let 'em cry in the dark.

:mellow:

[HairlessBluetick]

That reminds me of a joke.

How many emo kids does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Who cares. Let 'em cry in the dark.

:mellow:

:rofl:

[Laeskis]

Who is Emo?

[int]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emo

[Hunter]

Read it before I went to work today. Extremely accurate, I was one of the lucky nerds who actually managed to figure out that I was ahead of everyone else in that respect.

I feel sorry for nerds in High School who think they're messed up and don't realize they're winning at life, I know how that was as well for some time.

[Nindy]

I'm in high school right now, and people only call me a nerd sometimes because I tend to get high marks at tests, but that's only when we're getting our results.
On the main I went from a true non-conformist to what would be labelled as a 'Goth'. I do well with sports and also in class, but the sports have to be individual, otherwise I don't enjoy it (all that much) and am less good, a lot.

[s]

The is nothing original about Goth. Just head to any suburban mall and head to the store "Hot Topic." Only Robert Smith wears that look right.

[Nindy]

The is nothing original about Goth. Just head to any suburban mall and head to the store "Hot Topic." Only Robert Smith wears that look right.

Didn't say that it was original, just like it... :)

Anyway, we don't have 'Hot Topic' here in The Netherlands, I have to head to a somewhat big city as for getting 'Goth' clothes.
I just like the music and style, and it's said to actually represent 'individuality', which is quite true for where I live, considering I'm one of the two 'Goths' on my school :blink:

But yeah, label or no label, whatever I feel happiest in at the moment. :)

[Slider]

wot's the difference between a nerd and a geek? silly me, I thought they were the same thing . . .

A nerd is a smart person who doesn't fit in in most social situations. :nerd:
A geek bites the head off of chicken in sideshows. :D

by this definition, I'd be a 'nerd' - but I'm not. Maybe you mean "a person who gets good grades, is involved in academic clubs and doesn't fit in in most social situations." cos I'm smart but I barely graduated with honors (third to last person, heh), mostly cos I hated school. and I deffo wasn't in any academic clubs, I did bare minimum to get by.

the definition you give for geek is wot I'd normally call a freak I guess. And then there are losers who aren't smart, aren't cool, aren't athletic, aren't musical etc.

[Dr. Caligari]

Who is Emo?

From what I've observed, to be emo means to be a whiny loser who listens to music played by other whiny losers. It also means to be an elitist dick who believes a majority of the bands one listens to are as far away from "the mainstream" as possible because they're "indie", even if they're no different in sound from the bands that currently receive frequent airtime on MTV. It is said that goths are just messed up emo kids.

[MacGuffin]

Who is Emo?

From what I've observed, to be emo means to be a whiny loser who listens to music played by other whiny losers. It also means to be an elitist dick who believes a majority of the bands one listens to are as far away from "the mainstream" as possible because they're "indie", even if they're no different in sound from the bands that currently receive frequent airtime on MTV. It is said that goths are just messed up emo kids.

Ha! Indie elitism has been aroung long before emo!

Goths were around before emo too.

Emo mostly came out of the D.C. area, Fugazi and Rites of Spring.

[Aryan]

Who is a greater nerd : INTP or INTJ ?

[int]

If an INTP can be a "cynical realist", as proposed by another thread/blog, we can be badasses.

W00t. Something to strive for. :rolleyes:

And I'm not emo, but have played the style for fun. The kids are into it and alot of them are nerds, but at least they have somewhat of a clue as to what's going on in this disaster.

If only they could get over that whole whiny vocal thing...

[s]

The is nothing original about Goth. Just head to any suburban mall and head to the store "Hot Topic." Only Robert Smith wears that look right.

Didn't say that it was original, just like it... :)

Anyway, we don't have 'Hot Topic' here in The Netherlands, I have to head to a somewhat big city as for getting 'Goth' clothes.
I just like the music and style, and it's said to actually represent 'individuality', which is quite true for where I live, considering I'm one of the two 'Goths' on my school :blink:

But yeah, label or no label, whatever I feel happiest in at the moment. :)

I thought you said you went from "true non-conformist" to Goth... I just think that is too bad as I think labels suck.

In my opinion, true individuals can wear blend in the crowd clothes and still be thought of as original.

Now... changing costumes IS fun, but just do not feel you have to conform to um, non-conform.
:D