Tookie Revisited

[kendoiwan]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/14070143.htm... so Tookie couldn't get a life sentence but this guy can walk?!?:rant: <_< :mellow: :shock:

[Claverhouse]

Well, from that account that chap didn't kill anybody and has served 20 years.
Wonder what you get for doing something...


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[kendoiwan]

Well, from that account that chap didn't kill anybody and has served 20 years.
Wonder what you get for doing something...


Claverhouse :ph34r:

What makes his claim of innocence or rehabilitation any more valid than Tookies, who took his claim of innocence to the grave with him?

[Rhu]

I guess because the guy who did it actually had blood on him, owned the knife, or may even have admitted to it.

Another question about hypocrisy: how is it that the father of the victim has expressed some sort of concern in this case, but didn't have enough to share some living space with his homeless son?

Though I guess I'd pardon both the father and the murderer if the victim was a smelly, homeless hippy.

[Claverhouse]

Rehabilation is wholly unimportant: the fact that no-one has suggested that he did any killing isn't,


Although Tramel was present at the crime, he did not wield a weapon and did not witness the crime in time to stop it. In fact, Kurtzman testified at his own trial that Tramel's back was turned at the time of the attack, and that Tramel had no knowledge that the attack was going to take place.

Although it has been reported otherwise in recent news coverage, court records from Kurtzman's trial state that Tramel did not know that the attack would take place, he did not tell Kurtzman that Stephenson was a member of the gang, and he did not see Kurtzman attack Stephenson. That said, Tramel stated at his October parole hearing, "I fully accept both my legal guilt and my moral culpability. I was one of two boys responsible for Michael’s death. In the hours leading up to his murder, I encouraged my classmates to confront the “City Rocker” gang. This was completely wrong and it directly led to Michael’s murder. My conduct was utterly unacceptable and I am justly punished for my role in the murder of an innocent man."

http://www.er-d.org/3577_60808_ENG_Print.html

He is not claiming innocence, but the fact he was innocent of actually wielding a weapon or of encouraging the other to do so presupposes that 20 years in jail is long enough for whatever he did or did not do.

I didn't follow the Tookie Williams thread since I'm not greatly interested in murderers, but,


Court records show that as Darryl and Sims walked to the counter area to take money from the register, Williams walked behind Owens, pulled the sawed-off shotgun from under his jacket and told Owens to “shut up and keep walking.” While pointing the shotgun at Owens’ back, Williams directed him to a back storage room and ordered him to lie down. Coward said that he next heard the sound of a round being chambered into the shotgun. He then heard a shot and glass breaking, followed by two more shots. Records show that Williams shot out a security monitor and then killed Owens, shooting him twice in the back at point blank range as he lay prone on the storage room floor. Williams, Darryl, Coward, and Sims then fled in the two cars and returned home to Los Angeles. They had netted approximately $120 in the robbery. Once back in Los Angeles, Sims asked Williams why he had shot Owens. Williams said that he “didn’t want to leave any witnesses.” Williams also said he killed Owens “because he was white and he was killing all white people.” Coward testified that Williams had bragged about the shooting, stating, “You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him,” as he made gurgling or growling noises and laughed about Owens’ death.


According to court transcripts, at approximately 5:00 am on March 11, 1979, Stanley Williams entered the Brookhaven Motel lobby and then broke down the door that led to the private office. Inside the office, Williams shot and killed Yen-Yi, Tsai-Shai, and Yu-Chin, after which he emptied the cash register and fled the scene. Robert, asleep with his wife in their bedroom at the motel, was awakened by the sound of somebody breaking down the door to the motel’s office. Shortly thereafter he heard a female scream, followed by gunshots. Robert entered the motel office and found that his mother, his sister, and his father had all been shot; the cash register was empty. It was later determined that the Brookhaven incident netted Stanley Williams approximately one hundred dollars.
The forensic pathologist testified that Yen-Yi Yang suffered two close range shotgun wounds, one to his left arm and abdomen, and one to the lower left chest. Tsai-Shai also received two close range wounds, one to the tailbone, and the other to the front of the abdomen, entering at the navel. Yu-Chin Lin was shot once in the upper left face area at a distance of a few feet.
Witnesses testified that Williams referred to the victims in conversations with friends as "Buddha-heads", a derogatory term for Asians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Williams

Undoubtedly he maintained his innocence, but only a fool wouldn't. If you're going on his rehabilation, the wiki has:


On January 28, 1982, Williams had two separate instances where he threw chemical substances at guards. In one of these instances, Williams threw a chemical substance in the eyes and on the face of a guard. As a result of that assault, the guard suffered from chemical burns to these areas and had to be taken to the hospital where he received emergency care.


On October 10, 1988, Williams was involved in a fight that led to him being stabbed by Tiequon Aundray Cox (aka Lil Fee), a Rolling 60s Crips member, and fellow death row inmate. Prison officials subsequently learned that this stabbing was done in retaliation for a September 22, 1988 stabbing of another inmate ordered by Williams.


The basis of his request for clemency is the "personal redemption Stanley Williams has experienced and the positive impact of the message he sends," yet "it is impossible to separate Williams' claim of innocence from his claim of redemption.

Also he wrote children's books. One should always be intensely suspicious of celebrities who write children's books.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[eyebyte_atWork]

THere is a lot of hypocracy(sp) around as well as double standards. Not just between races (ethnic groups) but also in socio-economic groups.

Wealthier children (teens, late teens, and young adults) get into as much trouble as the middle class and poorer kids. They just do not get convicted as often because of daddy's money and lawyers. All, well almost all, sins are forgiven with the blood of currency (cash, money, moolah). This is hardly fair - but it is present amoung us everyday.

I guess what I am saying is we should kill these kids. ;)

or

change the system.

One way of doing this is holding law enforcment accountable for all its actions. It is amazing how people (cops) react when they see their actions on television. People may say bad things about TV but I submit that it is a two edged sword in that it not only rots your brain - it actually can be used to expose societies dirty laundry too.

[Claverhouse]

What's that got to do with the Reverend Tramel ? He got 20 years for being a bystander; doesn't sound a whole lot like privileged to me.

Unless US jails are rather more enjoyable than I've been led to believe.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Johnny]

Unless US jails are rather more enjoyable than I've been led to believe.

It would certainly explain why the wealthy kids aren't the only ones committing crimes... <_<

[eyebyte_atWork]

I did not read that article - I was commenting on the general outcome things I have seen or read/heard about.

I have no clue about this case.

I still think we should kill wealthy kids (I am only kidding)

[cjs55]

To say that wealthy kids get in as much trouble is probably wrong, but you are certainly correct that they can buy themselves out of much more. Heh, growing up in Park City, which almost seems to be the rich-white-people-doing-crack-capital-of-the-world, made that quite clear to me. Of course, only being middle class there made our family poor by comparison. If I ever fucked up I sure as hell wouldn't have been able to buy my way out of it (of course, the most illegal thing I ever did was light fireworks in summer and make black powder bombs in our backyards just to see them blow up stuff...we never even tried mailboxes damn!). But the upper class definitely has advantages there, with bribes and uber lawyers and who knows what else.