INTP not entrepreneurs?

[Totenkopf]

I took a class in entrepreneurship as an undergraduate (ages ago). I can’t recall what sort of particular psych test I took then, but my scores were a poor fit for becoming an entrepreneur. This was a major disappointment for me and I disagreed vehemently, but so far it has proven true. I have plenty of great ideas, but I am not a “doer” so these ideas go nowhere.

I am wondering if this is true of other INTPs or if it was just me.

[Fade2Black]

True, I am an another "idea person" but not a doer/entrepreneur with great people skills. In general, INTP's are mostly "idea people" and nothing more.

[Nadiar]

I think an INTP/ENTJ partnership could be awesome as far as a company goes.

[kuranes]

I think more companies should look at MBTI when HIRING ! Not just when "team building" with people already hired.

[Ka.avik]

My personal problem with entrepreneurship, and I attribute it to my INTP-ish qualities, is that I don't follow politics, meaning I can do the E3-type thing and make people want the crap I want to sell, and of course, two I'd much prefer to stay in my mind, and never actually 'do' anything too terribly challenging.

But if you can gather a few sycophants who'll stand behind your systematology, you'll see the holes in the system you can exploit sufficiently to pay everyone involved.

Good luck in the rat race. I plan on letting the rats win, myself....

[azurwarrior]

I run a video store and have had some success in entrepeuring. It's what's of the several businesses my father started. When he died a little over a year ago, it was up to me to run that place :(
He was my mentor. I just try to do what he did:)
One of the worst things zare the routine things. Oh, I hate doing that stuff.
i was usually the guy with the ideas, true to form, I guess.
I've had to learn how to put my ideas into action (something I suck at). This is entirely because there is no way to get out of it. If I don't do these things, there's absolutely no one else there to do them! I have no other choice.
I did hire a guy part-time for awhile who is very organized (in the traditional sense of the word) and outgoing and good at implementing my ideas (and is willing to do so no matter what I come up with) and is good at other things I'm not good at:)
Unfortunately he's unreliable-will say he worked when he didn't, for example. I'm not the greatest judge of people.
I DO try to switch on my "career personality" (as Socionics puts it) when I leave to go to work.
I'm just a guy going to his job at the video store.
I try to always be working while I'm there, because that's "why" I'm not chit-chatting with customers..... I have that excuse for not doing what is automatically assumed I'm supposed to be doing (loads and loads of small talk). At least some of them seem to buy that. They tell me I'm "always working."
I ack! gasp! choke! try to make small talk and deal with people. That's torture that sometimes just cannot be avoided. And that just drains my energy.
I'm ok starting the week. By the weekend I have had more than my fill of things involving people. (Except INTPc;) I just take a day off and just vegetate and do absolutely nothing.
A sense of humor helps.
As does internet access;)
Fortunately, it is the nature of the business that usually I'm alone (yay).
A few customers who make big purchases means a successful day, money wise.
Also, perfectionism kicks in, so I keep going to avoid self-imposed humiliation. Healthy? Probably not. But it works, thus far, anyway.
It has been about 1 year, 4 months! I can hardly believe it myself.
I'd rather do this than work in someone else's place of business and be told what I can or cannot do or when I can work and have to chit-chat all day and be forced to participate in office politics, and other conformist bullshit, etc.
If you have a chance to start or run a business, don't automatically turn it down just because of what "Type" some test says you are. It possibly can be done. Test results can't measure the human spirit.
And there are always mitigating factors, depending on the person, I think.

[Stillwater]

I think more companies should look at MBTI when HIRING ! Not just when "team building" with people already hired.


Hmmm..I wouldn't want to discriminated against because of my type. It seems there are more square pegs than square holes, in my opinion.

I do agree that after the fact testing does practically little in real team building, that has been my experience at least. The existing roles aren't that flexible to really adapt in most situations. However, I do appreciate the money my employer spent on testing, for my own personal enlightenment.

[cathmc]

I can be a doer if I have to but it's definitely not my strong suit, especially if I have to DECIDE what to do and then do it. I get lost in weighing pros, cons, implications, possibilities, etc. etc. and end up doubting any possible actions.
I am at this moment job hunting to get out of an extremely 'doer'-oriented job to one more focused on researching/thinking/analyzing/deliberating. Ironically though I now have this 'doer' resume so that I'm aftraid I'll end up trying to sell myself to prospective new employers by saying, 'yeah but really i wasn't so good at that doer stuff'. Maybe not the best strategy.

[jyakulis]

you can be anything you wanna be!!!! now get the hell out of here and start making some money!

[radiant__blur]

I tend to be the same--I have so many ideas, can plan everything out on paper, but when it comes to doing, I just can't be bothered. As long as I'm content in my mind that it's a good idea and it'll work, that's all I need. Unfortunately, unless we know the right people/have the right job, that's not going to be very helpful... but I don't think all is lost. We just need to practise self-discipline and force ourselves to actually implement things, and we could do anything--and that's a huge advantage, because no one's perfect (all types lack something), but there wouldn't be much hope if it was intelligence and creativity we lacked.

Ahh.. shameless INTP-worship right there :P

[eyebyte_atWork]

Unfortunately the problem with NT's is that they are good idea people - but need to keep their mind going - which is why many choose highly creative fields of work. THe people dynamic makes it really hard to be an entrepeneur. Also it is much harder for an NT to stick with a plan long enough to make it work in a business situation (We bore easily and many times lose the steam to keep going). Our pursuits tend to be more intellectual. Notice that azurwarrior did not start his store - he inherited it. I am sure he does an excellent job running it and making it grow... but thats not the same thing as starting one from scratch. NT's can work with something already there - make things more efficient and run smoothly. Starting an endeavor is a completely different story.

I am not saying that it is impossible - I am saying that it is not our natural way. It can be done, especially if one is really determined. It's just not likely that we ever become determined enough.

[eyebyte_atWork]

you can be anything you wanna be!!!! now get the hell out of here and start making some money!


You forgot to say "fool" after that statement - which would have been perfect usage.

[Jasz]

i will not die before setting up, running and selling my own company
plenty of ideas too, trick is to partner up with a do-er, still looking for a good partner

my BSc thesis was a business plan for a company that a fellow student and i wanted to start, the bank was not convinced and we moved on, went our own ways

[Stillwater]

I'm sitting on an winning idea for a new multi-billion dollar industry. Just waiting now for someone else to realize it, to reaffirm the sheer brilliance my idea. Maybe I'll invest in stock when someone else starts it. Don't ask me what it is either, it's like a birthday wish. If I tell you, it won't come true.

[Darren]

I can be a doer if I have to but it's definitely not my strong suit, especially if I have to DECIDE what to do and then do it. I get lost in weighing pros, cons, implications, possibilities, etc. etc. and end up doubting any possible actions.

I could have written that. What I need is a job where I simply write up great big lists of pros, cons, possibilities, alternate strategies, etc, and never have to do anything ;)

[nihilist]

This is yet another shining example of ego inflation perpetuated through typology. Everyone has ideas on some sort of business venture, and often those ideas emerge out of past experiences and skills. How many different ways of self-perceived uniqueness can people on this discussion board come up with? (rhetorical)

How do you know if an idea is effective or lucrative, even for short term? One way to find out is to implement it, and in the process, toil slavishly for something which hardly ever invites success. Otherwise, these so-called ideas, being synonymous with musings meant to be stored in a journal, cannot be objectively conjectured to have any significant monetary value.

Imo, most ideas, regardless of the brains behind the operation, are either shortsighted or constantly struggle against reality.

[geniusndisguise]

NT's can work with something already there - make things more efficient and run smoothly. Starting an endeavor is a completely different story.

This may be the case but there are countless businesses for sale out there everyday. I actually think running a small business can be ideal for an NT. When you have a job, you have your work and that's it. You're responsible for A, B and C everyday and no more. That's what we get bored with. As an owner, if you're getting bored you're doing something wrong because you should always be building and looking for better ways to do things and get people in the door, buying, etc. This is what we're looking for, to make a living coming up with ideas.

I think it's a good idea for an INTP entrepreneur to team up with a doer, definetly, or get up off your ass and force yourself. The thing is, once you get started you have no choice but to keep working, lest all your investment (monetary and personal effort) go down the toilet. So the most important thing is to go into a field that you enjoy.

[25fd]

The skills needed to become an entrepreneur can be learned. The major obstacle is that the formal educational system teaches people how to be good employees. What is good for an employee is not good for an entrepreneur and vice versa. Therefore, I’d say the biggest challenge is unlearning the old ideas/things/paradigms. The major contrast is that an employee seeks security while an entrepreneur seeks freedom. The more security you have the less freedom you have and vice versa.
There are many maxims written by famous people regarding this challenge, but I can only recall one at the moment.

“The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. Marcel Proust”

Do you want to test the waters? Keep your day job and start something on the side to learn the skill needed to become an entrepreneur. Also keep in mind that good is the enemy of great (Jim Collins). There are many good "everything" in this world but not so many great "everything”, that includes businesses.

[last_caress]

I'm sitting on an winning idea for a new multi-billion dollar industry. Just waiting now for someone else to realize it, to reaffirm the sheer brilliance my idea. Maybe I'll invest in stock when someone else starts it. Don't ask me what it is either, it's like a birthday wish. If I tell you, it won't come true.

You too?

Honestly, I think I really have at least one good one that I've been sitting on for awhile.
Convincing other people to give me their money as well as the actual people management and grunt work is unappealing to me in the extreme.
I've witnessed firsthand how grueling and tedious getting a business off the ground can be, as well as how unlikely it is to be profitable.

I know it's easy to say, but I had an idea some time ago and a few years later saw that some australian company had done something similar.
It was basically about using ambient pressure differentials to move air through a building sized tube structure and drive turbines.

A thing they did that had not occured to me, was to utilize captured solar heat at one end to enhance the pressure mismatch.

[geniusndisguise]

The skills needed to become an entrepreneur can be learned. The major obstacle is that the formal educational system teaches people how to be good employees. What is good for an employee is not good for an entrepreneur and vice versa. Therefore, I’d say the biggest challenge is unlearning the old ideas/things/paradigms. The major contrast is that an employee seeks security while an entrepreneur seeks freedom. The more security you have the less freedom you have and vice versa.


Very good points and I think this is where we have an edge. What with being not concerned with how things should be done, the ability to immerse ourselves in a subject to learn about it, and the desire for freedom instead of security.

[de groz]

I took a class in entrepreneurship as an undergraduate (ages ago). I can’t recall what sort of particular psych test I took then, but my scores were a poor fit for becoming an entrepreneur. This was a major disappointment for me and I disagreed vehemently, but so far it has proven true. I have plenty of great ideas, but I am not a “doer” so these ideas go nowhere.

I am wondering if this is true of other INTPs or if it was just me.

So true of me. I always thought I had the entrepreneural flair, but so far has proven not to be the case.

Lots of ideas, lots of attempts, but no results.

[AcidGoethe]

Best entrepreneur = ENTJ

[MySavior]

I lack the follow-through, the ability to maintain, the ability to endure prolonged periods of extraversion, the ability to be consistent, dependable, and trustworthy. There are many INTps that are probably the same way.. NOT A MATCH FOR ENTREPRENEURSHIP!

If there was someone good at maintaining my drive for me, I'd have taken over the world by the age of 12. So far, no dice.

[charred_heart]

Unfortunately the problem with NT's is that they are good idea people - but need to keep their mind going - which is why many choose highly creative fields of work. THe people dynamic makes it really hard to be an entrepeneur. Also it is much harder for an NT to stick with a plan long enough to make it work in a business situation (We bore easily and many times lose the steam to keep going). Our pursuits tend to be more intellectual. Notice that azurwarrior did not start his store - he inherited it. I am sure he does an excellent job running it and making it grow... but thats not the same thing as starting one from scratch. NT's can work with something already there - make things more efficient and run smoothly. Starting an endeavor is a completely different story.

I am not saying that it is impossible - I am saying that it is not our natural way. It can be done, especially if one is really determined. It's just not likely that we ever become determined enough.
I'd also like to add that an important trait of an enterpreneur is a high awareness of the environment around them. Employees' morale and performance, the current state of their market, competitors, the company's reputation among clients and partners/resellers. All this drives the enterprenuer away from the 'workshop' or the design / production lines in the company. I would imagine an INTx could get very depressed in such a position.

[airjaw]

i agree with what everyone else said. INTP's are not good entrepreneurs.
We have all the ideas, and seem to come up with new ones once every week, and yet never ever "close" them .. characteristic of E**J personalities.

I also agree that partnership would be ideal, INTP / ENTJ or INTP / ESTJ.

I also agree that buying/inheriting a business and running it would be a better idea, that or franchising a business. which i am currently looking into.

[Hustler]

I talked with another NT for over an hour yesterday about ideas for making buckets of money by privatizing mass transit and making a city bus system many times more efficient. We'll never get around to actually doing any of the stuff necessary to get that project started, though.

[Leftfield]

I think it depends on how strong of a 'P' preference you have.

My international business group is personally looking/implementing a 5-year investment horizion for an entreprenuership/venture capital idea to the country of Japan.

We all see the payout being extremely high, and the partnership we would have is well protected. Both the Americans and Japanese players would be equally vested in interest and both parties have little to lose, due to the minimal capital requirements and the genius of the product.

Plus it is our creation going into effect as well. I think it would be sweet to have the Japanense product our group made/created sitting in my American house (down the road) as the greatest memory/symbol of my life.

But I am a mix of J/P and think that life was meant to be lived, plus traveling to/within Japan would be fun as well.

I'd be Lost in Translation!

[aklight]

Odds are against me, but I'm going to do it anyway. Nothing is going to stop me. I don't really feel like getting a partner that can fill in my gaps because then I have to split everything we earn, when I'm actually capable of doing it all on my own. A partnership is a bad thing, even if it's your best friend. If in a few years I still have not done anything I'll consider a partner as a last resort. Also, I wouldn't like dealing with "employees" that much, but if I'm making enough to need employees, I can hire somebody else to manage them. There's plenty of ways to be successful and rich without having employees though, and that's what I'm shooting for. Paying somebody $10 bucks an hour to do work for you is risky business, because they have nothing to lose. I'd definitely be ready to fire any slackers.

For those of you with all of those brilliant ideas that you never did anything about: Don't you wish you could just sell ideas for $100 bucks each? You could make a great living and you wouldn't even have to do anything but think. If you are up to it, tell me your ideas, I'll make them happen. If I fail, I can just blame it on you, it's much better that way. Surely you can trust another INTP, and it will be a win - win situation.

[airjaw]

For those of you with all of those brilliant ideas that you never did anything about: Don't you wish you could just sell ideas for $100 bucks each? You could make a great living and you wouldn't even have to do anything but think.

amen, i definitely have... altho in my biased point of view my ideas ought to be worth more than $100 only...

I think the perfect career for an INTP would be a position in which you were allowed to continuously brainstorm new ideas/opportuniities/ways to do things better with a big firm that had great benefits and salary and since u were so valued you were allowed free reign to think anywhere u wanted meaning you could go play golf, sports, fishing, travel, whatever as long as by the end of the week you turned in something (deadlines are good for us).
I'm still searching for this position btw :) any openings call me! haha.

[aklight]

amen, i definitely have... altho in my biased point of view my ideas ought to be worth more than $100 only...

I think the perfect career for an INTP would be a position in which you were allowed to continuously brainstorm new ideas/opportuniities/ways to do things better with a big firm that had great benefits and salary and since u were so valued you were allowed free reign to think anywhere u wanted meaning you could go play golf, sports, fishing, travel, whatever as long as by the end of the week you turned in something (deadlines are good for us).
I'm still searching for this position btw :) any openings call me! haha.

Nah, they are not worth more than $100. I was being generous. I mean, in theory, they could be worth millions, right? But, in reality, the idea is cheap, very cheap. Those are a dime a dozen. I was just saying that you'd be better off to sell all your "million dollar ideas" for a hundred bucks because you have so many of them and you'll never use them yourself. How often do you see a really motivated J-type person running around looking for ideas or something to accomplish with all of their accomplishing talents? They need new ideas a lot less than you need somebody to make your ideas into reality.

That sounds like a great job! Throw in that you can take naps whenever you want to and that you only have to communicate with people through the computer, and it's even better!

I wonder, has anybody here tried to partner up with another INTP when trying to do something? I think you would both become more productive, in my opinion, and I'm almost positive that I would in that position.

[airjaw]

Nah, they are not worth more than $100. I was being generous. I mean, in theory, they could be worth millions, right? But, in reality, the idea is cheap, very cheap. Those are a dime a dozen. I was just saying that you'd be better off to sell all your "million dollar ideas" for a hundred bucks because you have so many of them and you'll never use them yourself. How often do you see a really motivated J-type person running around looking for ideas or something to accomplish with all of their accomplishing talents? They need new ideas a lot less than you need somebody to make your ideas into reality.


that is true, which is why i threw that "biased" in there.

[Llewellyn]

It depends on the strength of the idea.

I've had ideas formed, or more associative images. I like soil (black earth!), plants, imaginative language.

Now in my talk just this afternoon with my newly found psychologist (only the second talk, and already I've passed a few others of them, but that's another thing), who I'm sure is ENTP and very friendly and accessible, he just suggested this great idea for a company to me (I'm not getting too concrete about it - he made my images into a concrete suggestion of an idea), as I'm at the point where I have to find a new occupation out of necessity. Talks like these, with anyone suited, can be helpful to get more concrete, become aware of your own images. He said having a creative mind - which would be what NTs have, right - is the basis. Of course there are other conditions.

It's true 'we' tend to join an existing project and make it more efficient a.o., which is great, only not when one isn't supporting its base. So, if you have the opportunity it would a great source for independence and creativity to find some people to start something up with.

Ok, I'm getting all theoretical (well, I like writing). Consider that I'm all into 'in between jobs' ideation. And that I go from idea to idea in general. But this is where I am at the moment (I know you can handle: This morning I was more or less at joining an ecovillage. Find the similarity).

[Mkenya]

I think the perfect career for an INTP would be a position in which you were allowed to continuously brainstorm new ideas/opportuniities/ways to do things better with a big firm that had great benefits and salary and since u were so valued you were allowed free reign to think anywhere u wanted meaning you could go play golf, sports, fishing, travel, whatever as long as by the end of the week you turned in something (deadlines are good for us).

Strategic Planner fits.

I've been thinking about that career myself.