Free Psychotherapy and Advice

[Hustler]

I, Hustler, am offering my services as a problem solver to help you, the disaffected, find more happiness in your life. Tell me what's bothering you, and I will dip into my well of caring and understanding to help you find a solution to your difficult situation.

Disclaimer: I am not a psychologist. I once took a psychology class in college, but I slept through ~80% of the classes and got a B-. Hey, it was senior year, and I was drunk and/or stoned around the clock, and I was just finishing up some basic course requirements for graduation which I had, of course, been procrastinating on for my entire stint as a student. Furthermore, this is a public forum, and you should be aware that you will be broadcasting your personal problems to all of us but, then again, I guess this alone is therapeutic for some so, whatever. Finally, while I made claims above of a "well of caring and understanding," there is one school of thought which holds that I am actually a total asshole and, as such, pretty much incapable of caring and understanding. I'm not sure where I stand on the matter, but what the hell, it's not for us INTPs to try to make definitive decisions about such matters anyway. Finally, I suspect that most of my "solutions" are actually going to be very unpopular, because they will generally involve some sort of attack on your character and require that you blame yourself for your problems in ways with which you are not comfortable. And I'll probably say all of this stuff in a very insensitive manner, which could even seem to some to be wholly mean-spirited. Why? I don't know, but that's usually how it goes. All that said, I stand ready to be of service, once again, to my INTP brethren. Which, by the way, brings me to another point. If you're not an INTP, don't ask me to analyze you or give you advice, because I'm not interested, and everything I say would just be 100% insulting anyway so, if you are an NF for instance, you're just going to get upset. If you are an S, you wouldn't understand what the hell I'm talking about.

Addendum: I am going to be proactive about stifling argumentation in this thread by saying that, if you come to me with problems and I answer them, other people are probably going to have opinions which are different from mine and, seeing as how this is INTP Central, they are going to be vociferous in giving their opinions and calling mine into question. Be advised that they are generally going to be wrong. In fact, you can just go ahead and assume they're all wrong. This way, I'm not going to get bogged down into telling every intellectually-arrogant INTP who drops by this thread why he's wrong. Because that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about amateur e-psychotherapy and the many benefits it could have to the participants of this forum.

[joft]

I'm having trouble figuring out what to major in. Do you have any advice?

[Hustler]

I'm having trouble figuring out what to major in. Do you have any advice?

Dammit, joft, I've already given you advice about this. Quit trying to hoard my advice. But, I'll humor you this once. Use your freshman year to explore your academic options and then make your decision for your major(s) in your sophomore year. Last I heard, you were not considering some very competitive, rigid major like biochemistry, which pretty much requires that you get the ball rolling in your freshman year, so you have the luxury of postponing this decision. In other words, procrastinate. You have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by making this decision too early.

[joft]

by the time I transfer i'll have 36 credits. i don't have any freshman year left to do the deciding, and I'm still undecided

[Obelix]

Hustler, I am waiting for you to PM me. Got any advice?

[Hustler]

by the time I transfer i'll have 36 credits. i don't have any freshman year left to do the deciding, and I'm still undecided

Are you going to transfer in as a sophomore? Are you sure all of your credits will transfer? Anyway, all of this is inconsequential. If your rational mind is telling you that it is time to make a decision and there is no value to further procrastination, then I will attempt to assist you in facilitating that. Why don't you share with me your thinking on the matter of a major over the last year. I have a vague outline already in mind, but I would like you to break it down for me completely. Perhaps we can then determine the logical direction for you to proceed. I will then offer up a final decision on the matter, and you can take it or leave it.

[Hustler]

Hustler, I am waiting for you to PM me. Got any advice?

Don't wait on PMs from Hustler. Sometimes, they never come. Now, do you have any other problems on which you'd like some advice?

[sasapurdue]

I must be some kind of masochist for doing this, but here goes....Why can't I make a commitment in my life without feeling like I am trapped in a freaking cage? Everytime I make any sort of commitment I instantly start looking for ways to get out of it and feel an overwhelming sense of anxiety. Is there anyway for me to change this about myself?

[Obelix]

Sure. I'm inorgasmic. Got any advice?

[Turnip]

I'm having trouble thinking of a way to be a happy INTP without having a job.

[Obelix]

I am having trouble waiting for your advice.

[Hustler]

I must be some kind of masochist for doing this, but here goes....Why can't I make a commitment in my life without feeling like I am trapped in a freaking cage? Everytime I make any sort of commitment I instantly start looking for ways to get out of it and feel an overwhelming sense of anxiety. Is there anyway for me to change this about myself?

Perhaps you could share an example of the type of commitment you are talking about. Do you mean something as simple as agreeing to meet someone for a movie at 7:30pm? Are you talking about commitments in the workplace or romantic commitments?

[Hustler]

Sure. I'm inorgasmic. Got any advice?

Do you have any idea why you are inorgasmic? Do you think it is physiological or psychological? Would you prefer to not be inorgasmic?

[Obelix]

Do you think it is physiological or psychological? Would you prefer to not be inorgasmic?

Both. Of course I prefer to be orgasmic.

[Hustler]

Both. Of course I prefer to be orgasmic.

Both? I would like to hear your speculation as to the mechanisms at work behind both elements of your inorgasmic status. Understanding the problem in its entirety is essential to rectifying it, of course.

[Shimpei]

Hustler, it seems you're gonna soon be overwhelmed by work... :)

[Hustler]

Hustler, it seems you're gonna soon be overwhelmed by work... :)

All messiahs are. It's all part of the lifestyle.

[Kljoki]

Hmmm, any advice on how to chose a fulfilling and appropriate collage?

[Hustler]

I'm having trouble thinking of a way to be a happy INTP without having a job.

Do you have any guesses as to why you are having difficulty thinking of ways to be happy without a job? Is it because you can't think of a way to earn money outside the confines of a job?

[Snowflake]

I have a tendency to be a bit arrogant. I was wondering if you could come up with any suggestions on ways I could perhaps lessen my tendency to act in ways that are perceived as arrogant and conceited, without me having to resort to being an overly "nice" person (because I don't like that persona).

[Obelix]

Both? I would like to hear your speculation as to the mechanisms at work behind both elements of your inorgasmic status. Understanding the problem in its entirety is essential to rectifying it, of course.

My brain cannot cannot shut down when engaged in the act. I feel I am losing breath and about to die.

[Hustler]

Hmmm, any advice on how to chose a fulfilling and appropriate collage?

If, by collage you actually mean college, then my advice would be to go to amazon.com and search for books which give detailed reviews of colleges. Use that to create a list to further research online and perhaps visit in person. However, if you are really talking about collage, such as the kind where you paste a bunch of magazine pictures onto a piece of posterboard, then I guess you should learn to be satisfied with whatever is aesthetically appealing to you.

[abathur]

I need to learn a programming language but I'm always too lazy to do it. Is there a way to trick myself into learning it?!

[Hustler]

My brain cannot cannot shut down when engaged in the act. I feel I am losing breath and about to die.

Are you experiencing panic attacks while engaging in sexual intercourse? That's what this sounds like. Tell me, what do you think about in these cases? Have you always been this way (since your first sexual encounter, I mean), or was there some event in your life which coincides with your first experiencing this?

[Kljoki]

If, by collage you actually mean college, then my advice would be to go to amazon.com and search for books which give detailed reviews of colleges. Use that to create a list to further research online and perhaps visit in person. However, if you are really talking about collage, such as the kind where you paste a bunch of magazine pictures onto a piece of posterboard, then I guess you should learn to be satisfied with whatever is aesthetically appealing to you. Sorry, a typo, college. Online research yielded little to no results. I'm going to visit a presentation next week. I'm still undecided.

[abathur]

Sorry, a typo, college. Online research yielded little to no results. I'm going to visit a presentation next week. I'm still undecided.
Do you know what you're planning to major in? How confident are you that you'll stick with this discipline?

[Kljoki]

Do you know what you're planning to major in? How confident are you that you'll stick with this discipline?What's "major in"? :)

[Hustler]

I need to learn a programming language but I'm always too lazy to do it. Is there a way to trick myself into learning it?!

All of those tricks are just stupid J devices which don't work on us. You know, like setting up your own reward program, by which you abstain from something you enjoy until you have spent at least 20 minutes working on the skill in question. An example would be putting in 20 minutes of Python (or your computer language of choice) study before logging onto the internet everyday. I have found these to be ineffective.

I think the best way for an INTP to learn programming (or most things, for that matter) is when it is an integral part of something you really enjoy. Let's say you really got off on spamming the crap out of message boards you hated. Let's say you wanted a way to make finding proxies and setting them up in your browser more efficient because, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but proxy-hunting fucking sucks. Anyway, you could then turn learning how to make this process more efficient this through scripting, which would, of course, require getting some programming know-how. The trick, then, is being creative in figuring out a way in which programming will help you get even more enjoyment out of your activities on the computer. I realize this is a nebulous suggestion, but it's the best I can do on something like this. I am legendary for partially completing tasks or procrastinating on something until it is no longer even relevant.

It could be your only solution is to actually pay money to take a class and force yourself to try and get an A.

[Obelix]

Are you experiencing panic attacks while engaging in sexual intercourse? That's what this sounds like. Tell me, what do you think about in these cases? Have you always been this way (since your first sexual encounter, I mean), or was there some event in your life which coincides with your first experiencing this?

I think about random things during the act, but in general I couldn't seem to block my mind from visualizing two sex organs rubbing against each other and that will for sure turn my libido from 100 to 0 in a 1/4 of a second. I also have this sensation that I am going to pee and I am self-conscious about that.

[Hustler]

Sorry, a typo, college. Online research yielded little to no results. I'm going to visit a presentation next week. I'm still undecided.

Like I said, look for actual books on the subject at amazon.com. There are some very comprehensive, in-depth guides out there.

[abathur]

What's "major in"? :)
Ah, Croatia, hmm. "major" here would be your primary degree plan or the primary subject you're studying.

[abathur]

All of those tricks are just stupid J devices which don't work on us. You know, like setting up your own reward program, by which you abstain from something you enjoy until you have spent at least 20 minutes working on the skill in question. An example would be putting in 20 minutes of Python (or your computer language of choice) study before logging onto the internet everyday. I have found these to be ineffective.

I think the best way for an INTP to learn programming (or most things, for that matter) is when it is an integral part of something you really enjoy. Let's say you really got off on spamming the crap out of message boards you hated. Let's say you wanted a way to make finding proxies and setting them up in your browser more efficient because, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but proxy-hunting fucking sucks. Anyway, you could then turn learning how to make this process more efficient this through scripting, which would, of course, require getting some programming know-how. The trick, then, is being creative in figuring out a way in which programming will help you get even more enjoyment out of your activities on the computer. I realize this is a nebulous suggestion, but it's the best I can do on something like this. I am legendary for partially completing tasks or procrastinating on something until it is no longer even relevant.

It could be your only solution is to actually pay money to take a class and force yourself to try and get an A.

Good point, I think I may just have to dive into the project I need the language for and try to plod my way through it learning as I go. The reason I didn't want to do it this way "this time" is because I've usually figured out a better way to do something by the time I finish a project like that and end up doing it over a few times. ;)

And yes, proxies were the necessity that helped me bypass the filtered internet my parents had me on as a young teen. ;)

[Kljoki]

Ah, Croatia, hmm. "major" here would be your primary degree plan or the primary subject you're studying. There is no such thing in my school. Mine would be a universal secondary school. It prepares you to go to any collage there exists.

What we do have here are graduations in different subjects. Math and Croatian are mandatory, but one also has to pick a third one. Would this be close to it?

[Kljoki]

Like I said, look for actual books on the subject at amazon.com. There are some very comprehensive, in-depth guides out there. On carrier choices or colleges? Or both?

[abathur]

I phrased that poorly, the subject you'll be studying in college. If you know what you're studying you'll want to look for schools with strong programs in that field. If you're fairly sure, but might want to do X or Y then you might want to find a school that is maybe not the best at X but good at both X and Y. If you've got no idea what you're going to want to study I'd look for a general all around "ok" school for a lower price and go explore until you find something you enjoy.

[Hustler]

I think about random things during the act, but in general I couldn't seem to block my mind from visualizing two sex organs rubbing against each other and that will for sure turn my libido from 100 to 0 in a 1/4 of a second. I also have this sensation that I am going to pee and I self-conscious about that.

You're weird. Anyway, this is certainly quite a problem for a girl who is just looking for a little fun. I think there is a deeper psychology at work here than you care to share with me and, as I am only just beginning as your e-therapist, I understand that you do not want to open up all at once. I cannot really offer solutions of any great value without knowing more, of course, but I can try to make a few suggestions.

I think you have formed an association between sex and something unpleasant (which will remain undisclosed for now) in your mind. You attempt to block out this latter element by focusing more intently on the act of sex but, in doing so, you start to become overly aware of your physical body and the physical act of sex, hence the visualization of sexual organs rubbing against each other and the sensation that you need to pee. This heightened awareness prevents you from being able to "lose yourself" in the act of sex and allow your brain to respond naturally to the stimulus.

Now, whatever it is that is behind all of this is what must be confronted so that you can release yourself from the negative association you have made with sex. A simpler solution would be to have 2 or 3 shots of tequila before having sex and see if that helps your mind slow down. That's right. I've just prescribed a drug.

[Turnip]

Do you have any guesses as to why you are having difficulty thinking of ways to be happy without a job? Is it because you can't think of a way to earn money outside the confines of a job?

Yes, that is the reason. Without working, already having money, or just being lucky, I can't think of a way for me to earn enough money to be happy.

[Hustler]

On carrier choices or colleges? Or both?

Colleges. Just go to amazon.com and search college guides or something like that. Now, I don't know how extensive the catalogue of books which cover Croatian colleges (if you're staying domestic, that is), but it never hurts to investigate. I don't propose that you should have a major selected before you start looking. Just having a general idea of your interests and areas where you'll likely focus your studies is good enough. With that in mind, just touring some of the colleges which you could conceivably attend is another good step.

[coffeezombie]

I, Hustler, am offering my services as a problem solver to help you, the disaffected, find more happiness in your life. Tell me what's bothering you, and I will dip into my well of caring and understanding to help you find a solution to your difficult situation.

Does Madrigal offer dream analysis with you as part of a package deal?

[Hustler]

I have a tendency to be a bit arrogant. I was wondering if you could come up with any suggestions on ways I could perhaps lessen my tendency to act in ways that are perceived as arrogant and conceited, without me having to resort to being an overly "nice" person (because I don't like that persona).

Well, Snowflake, you have to decide what you want to get out of your social encounters. I'm not a big proponent of toning down your arrogance but, if it is something you want to do, and if you think it will make your social life more pleasant, there are ways. First, you must realize that you don't have to be the "real" you everytime you talk to someone. One way to avoid being perceived as arrogant is by simply slapping a filter between your thoughts and your words and not offering up your opinion on most things. Yes, sometimes it will be hard to do, but you can just remain quiet instead of saying something condescending. This is pretty basic; if you want to get more advanced, then you have to take into account the idea of playing to your audience. One thing people like to do is talk about themselves. Let them. Listen to them go on and maybe show some interest in them, and they will perceive you as the greatest person in the world. All the while, you are getting information about these people. You can use this information to shape your behavior in their presence to something which they will not perceive as arrogant, because you'll know more about how they think. It's not always as much fun as arrogantly dismissing everything someone says as being the total idiocy that it is, but sometimes being "pleasant" has its uses.

[Hustler]

Does Madrigal offer dream analysis with you as part of a package deal?

That's a bunch of NF fluff. This is the real deal.

[coffeezombie]

What are your qualifications to psychoanalyze the board, Hustler? I'm not sure I want to trust my mind in your hands.

[Kljoki]

Colleges. Just go to amazon.com and search college guides or something like that. Now, I don't know how extensive the catalogue of books which cover Croatian colleges (if you're staying domestic, that is), but it never hurts to investigate.
There are no books. But there is an online listing of all the colleges and their web sites in Croatia. I have visited the ones that I find "appropriate" and there is little choice. I have not look at the ones that are "not appropriate".

I don't propose that you should have a major selected before you start looking. Just having a general idea of your interests and areas where you'll likely focus your studies is good enough. With that in mind, just touring some of the colleges which you could conceivably attend is another good step. I only have temporary interests. That's my main problem. In the end I have to pick one. And it will not last longer then half a year. I'm thinking something dynamical. What do you suppose would be dynamical?

[Pooja]

I'm really worried, that I might be heading down the wrong path (academically/career-wise). I used to be an econ. major last year (which was my freshman year), and then this year, switched to biology. I took extra classes, and got caught up to where I needed to be with my major. I'm also premed, and have taken the chemistry and physics that I'll need for the MCATs.
But lately, I've been thinking about what I really want from life. And I'm afraid that I'm making a huge mistake by going into medicine. Naturally, I may be too much of a "P" to truly head down that path. What do you think I should do now?

[Conan]

I'm really worried, that I might be heading down the wrong path (academically/career-wise). I used to be an econ. major last year (which was my freshman year), and then this year, switched to biology. I took extra classes, and got caught up to where I needed to be with my major. I'm also premed, and have taken the chemistry and physics that I'll need for the MCATs.
But lately, I've been thinking about what I really want from life. And I'm afraid that I'm making a huge mistake by going into medicine. Naturally, I may be too much of a "P" to truly head down that path. What do you think I should do now?

You better get into med school or your biology degree is worthless. Econ opens a much greater variety of doors. In fact I know people with econ degrees that ended up going to med school. And you know what they eventually did? They ran the hospital.

[PiccoloNamek]

When winter came last year, I simply lost all desire to even pick up my camera. I thought the problem would go away, but it really hasn't. I've noticed that I'm not even seeing the way I used to, when during the rare moments that I do, I can never seem to get the composition or color or "feel" just right.

Tell me, how can I overcome my photographer's block?

[Conan]

When winter came last year, I simply lost all desire to even pick up my camera. I thought the problem would go away, but it really hasn't. I've noticed that I'm not even seeing the way I used to, when during the rare moments that I do, I can never seem to get the composition or color or "feel" just right.

Tell me, how can I overcome my photographer's block?

Ganj.

[PiccoloNamek]

Negative.

[Hustler]

There are no books. But there is an online listing of all the colleges and their web sites in Croatia. I have visited the ones that I find "appropriate" and there is little choice. I have not look at the ones that are "not appropriate".
I only have temporary interests. That's my main problem. In the end I have to pick one. And it will not last longer then half a year. I'm thinking something dynamical. What do you suppose would be dynamical?

You are just going to have to make a decision from what's available. I imagine there are fairly slim pickings in Croatia, so just go with your gut feeling and make the best of it. Give yourself some time to adjust to college and make decisions on exactly what to study after you've gotten some experience there.

[Hustler]

But lately, I've been thinking about what I really want from life. And I'm afraid that I'm making a huge mistake by going into medicine. Naturally, I may be too much of a "P" to truly head down that path. What do you think I should do now?

Is there a path you'd rather go down?

[Hustler]

What are your qualifications to psychoanalyze the board, Hustler? I'm not sure I want to trust my mind in your hands.

Everything is right there in the disclaimer in my first post. It's up to you if you think I'm qualified enough to assist you.

[Hustler]

When winter came last year, I simply lost all desire to even pick up my camera. I thought the problem would go away, but it really hasn't. I've noticed that I'm not even seeing the way I used to, when during the rare moments that I do, I can never seem to get the composition or color or "feel" just right.

Tell me, how can I overcome my photographer's block?

You're an excellent photographer from what I've seen, so you are right to be concerned about this. I'm going to tell you the solution, and you might not like it, but I want you to go through with it. This weekend, I want you to get your camera, drive about 3 hours in some direction and just start snapping off pictures. Take a shitload of them. Keep taking them, and then drive back home and look over them. If they all suck, scrap them and start again. But don't scrap them all. Take the three you think are the best and post them up in the Atelier. Repeat this exercise every weekend if you can. I don't want to hear about how you're not even motivated to do that. If you want to cure this problem, you're going to have to do what I just said.

[PiccoloNamek]

I'd LOVE to do what you just said. If I could, I would be out doing that every single day. The only problem is that I don't have a car.

I will be taking a trip to the Georgia Horse Park this weekend to photograph the cherry trees, however.

[Hustler]

I'd LOVE to do what you just said. If I could, I would be out doing that every single day. The only problem is that I don't have a car.

I will be taking a trip to the Georgia Horse Park this weekend to photograph the cherry trees, however.

Good. Furthermore, for future weekends, you don't need to have a car. Go on a nice long walk or bicycle ride and you can accomplish the same thing. If you can't pick a destination, just walk in some direction for an hour or two and then commence with the photography.

[Madrigal]

I almost started a thread like this once, but I discarded the idea because I thought it was a poor way to make myself feel better about my mistaken career-path, and a smokescreen for my personal failure at being able to express my own pain.

[Kljoki]

You are just going to have to make a decision from what's available. I imagine there are fairly slim pickings in Croatia, so just go with your gut feeling and make the best of it. Give yourself some time to adjust to college and make decisions on exactly what to study after you've gotten some experience there. But when I choose a college I won't be able to switch. Like, for instance, if I take law I won't be able to switch to directing (Movie) or psychology or theoretical psychics. That is the magnitude of my interest shifts. Radical and from the core. Only my approach stays the same.

But I guess that makes no difference (My interest shifts) after I limit myself. I don't care about the things I'm interested in apart from the initial high anyway.


Thanks for your time anyway.

[Hustler]

I almost started a thread like this once, but I discarded the idea because I thought it was a poor way to make myself feel better about my mistaken career-path, and a smokescreen for my personal failure at being able to express my own pain.

Are you asking for therapy? Have you been able to make yourself feel better about your mistakes and personal failures yet?

[Madrigal]

Are you asking for therapy? Have you been able to make yourself feel better about your mistakes and personal failures yet?

I don't need your placebo. Do you?

[Hustler]

Yes, that is the reason. Without working, already having money, or just being lucky, I can't think of a way for me to earn enough money to be happy.

Books. They're out there. Do some reading about things you would like to try.

[Hustler]

I don't need your placebo. Do you?

Are you being defensive because if you were willing to accept that a psychotherapeutic hack on an internet message board could actually make a positive difference, then it would fall to you to admit that what's really going on is that you're afraid to confront your problems?

[Hustler]

But when I choose a college I won't be able to switch. Like, for instance, if I take law I won't be able to switch to directing (Movie) or psychology or theoretical psychics. That is the magnitude of my interest shifts. Radical and from the core. Only my approach stays the same.

Right, but you have to decide, and soon. Perhaps you will not make the best decision, but you will only learn that through hindsight. There is no way for someone in your position to analyze every detail of college and make the objectively optimal decision. You just have to use what information you can, roll the dice, and work to make the outcome as good as possible for you. What I'm saying is don't stress out.

[Kljoki]

I don't need your placebo. Do you?:hug:

You came here for something.

EDIT: Perhaps to declare your moral superiority?

[Kljoki]

Right, but you have to decide, and soon. Perhaps you will not make the best decision, but you will only learn that through hindsight. There is no way for someone in your position to analyze every detail of college and make the objectively optimal decision. You just have to use what information you can, roll the dice, and work to make the outcome as good as possible for you. What I'm saying is don't stress out. Oh don't worry, I'm not stressing :lol:. I really don't care that much. I'll end up doing what I want anyway, just with a title in something.

EDIT: I'm mostly concentrating on a profitable venture that leaves a lot of individuality and liberty in action.

[Madrigal]

Are you being defensive because if you were willing to accept that a psychotherapeutic hack on an internet message board could actually make a positive difference, then it would fall to you to admit that what's really going on is that you're afraid to confront your problems?
I'm not being defensive because of that. Only because of how I have screwed things up over the years. However, I am well aware that you cannot help me. The fucked-upedness of my decisions compells me to ignore them just a little while longer, and ask you why you need to provide this kind of support. Is it because you fear to request it yourself?

[Madrigal]

:hug:

You came here for something.

EDIT: Perhaps to declare your moral superiority?
Is it even necessary? :P ;)

[Kljoki]

I'm not being defensive because of that. Only because of how I have screwed things up over the years. However, I am well aware that you cannot help me. The fucked-upedness of my decisions compells me to ignore them just a little while longer, and ask you why you need to provide this kind of support. Is it because you fear to request it yourself?Sometimes a stick is just a stick.

EDIT: My view on it anyway. And if you have problems with something it doesn't necessarily mean that others do as well.

[Madrigal]

Sometimes a stick is just a stick.
That's not what psychoanalysis is about, young man.

[Hustler]

I'm not being defensive because of that. Only because of how I have screwed things up over the years. However, I am well aware that you cannot help me. The fucked-upedness of my decisions compells me to ignore them just a little while longer, and ask you why you need to provide this kind of support. Is it because you fear to request it yourself?

1. I'm sure I can help you. You are teetering on the brink of opening up, and it could be that the process of opening up would be therapeutic all on its own; any input I offer would just be icing on the cake.
2. When I require help with something, I ask. Having multiple minds consider the same problem can often lead to solutions I could not have discerned on my own (or, at least, not nearly as efficiently).

[Kljoki]

That's not what psychoanalysis is about, young man. Is it about making stuff up?

[Conan]

Theres this new girl at work and Ive caught her looking at me lately. I look back and she holds eye contact for as long as I keep looking. I dont find her especially attractive however I do find her very doable and I have the feeling I could bag her if I wanted. The problem is she is borderline fat. Shes not really fat, she just has a little roundness to her face and a little meat on her bones. Id say she isnt fat but she does have some fat qualities. I know I would enjoy having at her. However I dont want a reputation at work for hooking up with borderline fat girls. What do I do?

[outcast]

Theres this new girl at work and Ive caught her looking at me lately. I look back and she holds eye contact for as long as I keep looking. I dont find her especially attractive however I do find her very doable and I have the feeling I could bag her if I wanted. The problem is she is borderline fat. Shes not really fat, she just has a little roundness to her face and a little meat on her bones. Id say she isnt fat but she does have some fat qualities. I know I would enjoy having at her. However I dont want a reputation at work for hooking up with borderline fat girls. What do I do?

Define "fat qualities.":think:

[Hustler]

Theres this new girl at work and Ive caught her looking at me lately. I look back and she holds eye contact for as long as I keep looking. I dont find her especially attractive however I do find her very doable and I have the feeling I could bag her if I wanted. The problem is she is borderline fat. Shes not really fat, she just has a little roundness to her face and a little meat on her bones. Id say she isnt fat but she does have some fat qualities. I know I would enjoy having at her. However I dont want a reputation at work for hooking up with borderline fat girls. What do I do?

Last I heard, you weren't going to be at that job much longer, so what do you care? Even if that weren't the case, you could use this as a stepping stone to taking on a reputation as being a total rake who has nailed every chick in the office. So, bearing those things in mind, I suggest you go ahead and hit that. Incidentally, my tequila solution also works well for this. Just shoot down some tequila, get past your inhibitions, and get down to business. If you find that your reputation is damaged (and I doubt it will be), you can then use the excuse, "I was drunk." You win no matter how you look at it.

[Madrigal]

1. I'm sure I can help you. You are teetering on the brink of opening up, and it could be that the process of opening up would be therapeutic all on its own; any input I offer would just be icing on the cake.
2. When I require help with something, I ask. Having multiple minds consider the same problem can often lead to solutions I could not have discerned on my own (or, at least, not nearly as efficiently).
I don't know, I think you may have already helped me. By starting this thread you have created a mirror in which I can analyze, detached, the reasons why I need to provide advice to masses of people. Whether my advice or yours actually works is another matter which is beside the point. This is simply a stage created for the satisfaction of an audience, while the actor can achieve the sublimation of a frustrated desire. You'd think everybody wins - because you may not suspect that you are demonstrating, not only to show something to others, but mainly, to conceal something from yourself.

So thank you for that, you have helped me. I only wonder now, who will help you?

[Conan]

Last I heard, you weren't going to be at that job much longer, so what do you care? Even if that weren't the case, you could use this as a stepping stone to taking on a reputation as being a total rake who has nailed every chick in the office.

Well if I do go to grad school Id still be at the job till the end of the summer. So I do need to use some discretion in my decision making.


Incidentally, my tequila solution also works well for this. Just shoot down some tequila, get past your inhibitions, and get down to business. If you find that your reputation is damaged (and I doubt it will be), you can then use the excuse, "I was drunk." You win no matter how you look at it.

This is an excellent technique and Ive made good use of it in the past. The problem with it in this situation is Id have to get drunk first and then incidentally run into her then get down to business. And Im not sure how Id do this. If I were to have her over or go over to her place and then get drunk and get down to business, Im not sure if the "I was drunk" excuse would hold enough weight.

[Hustler]

So thank you for that, you have helped me. I only wonder now, who will help you?

By your logic, you have helped me in seeing the mirroring. It's like two mirrors which reflect each other infinitely. How lovely.

Hustler 1, Madrigal 1 :hug:

[Madrigal]

By your logic, you have helped me in seeing the mirroring. It's like two mirrors which reflect each other infinitely. How lovely.

Hustler 1, Madrigal 1 :hug:
That was unexpected.

*freaks out and decides to abandon thread immediately*

[Conan]

Who am I kidding. Hustler, you dont need to answer my question (though I will still give you credit for helping me see that I already know the answer.) If I get the opportunity, I will hit it. And thats that.

[Hustler]

This is an excellent technique and Ive made good use of it in the past. The problem with it in this situation is Id have to get drunk first and then incidentally run into her then get down to business. And Im not sure how Id do this. If I were to have her over or go over to her place and then get drunk and get down to business, Im not sure if the "I was drunk" excuse would hold enough weight.

Is it possible to organize a post-work trip to a local watering hole and see to it that she show up? Does she have anyone in the office who is interested in her but who has no shot with her? See, you could invite that dude and tell him to invite people. He would invite her and, upon hearing that you were going to be there, she'd come along. Alternately, you could orchestrate a carpooling event which has her take you home or you take her home. Things could just kind of happen after that. And, whatever, you could still just use the "I was drunk" excuse, even if it sounds implausible. Just refuse to accept any damaging charges against your reputation which could result from the hookup. Personally, I like moving toward the rake angle, and using this as a springboard to more hookups. As I recall, there are others in your place of business that you'd be interesting in hitting before you leave for grad school or Austin or whatever.

[Hustler]

Who am I kidding. Hustler, you dont need to answer my question (though I will still give you credit for helping me see that I already know the answer.) If I get the opportunity, I will hit it. And thats that.

Well, I'm going to take a stab at answering every question or problem which comes up on this thread. On that note, real life does interfere with my access to INTP Central, sometimes for hours at a stretch, so, to all forlorn solution-seekers, take heart, I will answer you.

[bergenski]

I am 31 years old and have wandered around since college doing some things but never feeling any kind of happiness, joy, satisfaction or dedication at all to what I was doing. It is like there has always been a wall inside of me that I was afraid to let down...and I kept saying that I was going to let it down, but I could never actually do it because I was too scared...instead I just kept wasting my time doing things I didn't care about...and now it seems like I have wasted too much time.

I am now living at home with my mother and I have thousands of dollars of student loans and about 7-8000 dollars in credit card debt that I am not making any payments on (not to mention thousands of dollars of more money I should give to my parents). I am literally without any money. I have had an excellent education but haven't worked for the last year and three-quarters and have never really worked very much or very hard at all. I have only had one real relationship with a girl so far.

I am feeling pretty desperate and without any kind of hope for the future because I feel so completely lost and off base (and my credit is getting ruined as well now) How would you suggest I go about getting my life together? I know this is all because I don't have enough confidence in myself and I feel like I don't deserve success and happiness. I feel that if I am who I naturally am then it won't be good enough in my eyes.

[ApeTheDog]

I want to download a song, but I can't find the title. I will describe it as best as I can:

It has a very haunted feeling to it, is bombastic, and is often used in haunted house rides on carnivals in belgium and france. It's sang by a choir. They start to sing four words which sound latin in a staccato rhythm - and sing louder and louder as the song continues. I can't describe it further. Can you help me, uncle Hustler?

[Conan]

I am 31 years old and have wandered around since college doing a lot of things but never having any kind of happiness, satisfaction or dedication to anything I have done. It is like there is a wall up inside of me that I am afraid to let down.

I am now living at home with my mother and I have thousands of dollars of student loans and about 7000 dollars in credit card debt that I am not making my payments on (not to mention thousands of dollars of more money I should also give my parents). I am literally without money. I haven't worked for more than a year and a half and have never really worked very much my whole life. I have only had one really kind of semi-satisfying relationship with a girl ever.

I am basically feeling really ruined without any kind of specific hope for the future (and my credit is getting destroyed as well.) How would you suggest I go about getting my life back together? I know this is all because I feel a kind of hatred inside myself...it's like there is a feeling inside that says I shouldn't enjoy anything or be happy at all or have any kind of success...

Step one. Get rid of all your credit cards. Get a job (work at the gas station if you need to) and keep living at home. Put all your money towards paying off the debt. 7000 really isnt that bad. If you need to, you can consolidate your loans. If you talk to your creditor you can often work out a payment with lowered interest rates (believe it or not, they actually want to see you pay off your debts).

Credit Card debt is BAD. Do this for now, worry about the rest later, Id say the next step would be some sort of school or classes if only part time, considering your lack of professional work experience.

[joft]

Why don't you share with me your thinking on the matter of a major over the last year.
it has just been a cycle of endlessly focusing on different criteria as most important and wondering which major would fit that criteria best. the importance of criteria shifts with my mood and relative levels of energy, motivation, and MBTI letter percentages. there are times when I'm probably further toward the N extreme when i can see myself majoring in mathematics or something. but i'm probably too stupid for that.

independence is important to me. pecking orders and superiors and dress codes are lame. i think it'd have to be something where my reason for coming to work day after day wouldn't be too remote. so i don't think conducting thousands of experiments under a microscope for 3 years in order to publish one study would work well. but, that's probably obvious? i don't know if there's any type of career i would be happy doing. but you know that. i'm interested in lots of things academically, but i don't need to go to college to learn them. so the most important thing is that the degree would work toward a job where i'd have enough freedom and variety to not go insane. also, it's nice if the stuff i learn is applicable to more things, like mathematics or philosophy would be. but it's also better for careers if the stuff you learn is really specialized and specific.

in the past i've considered linguistics, cognitive science, philosophy, history. most recently i've been considering philosophy, with a specialization in philosophy of science or biology or bioethics or something. or psychology, with a cognitive/neuroscience or evolutionary specialization. or anthropology, maybe with a linguistic specialization. biophysics i think i'm too stupid for.

i'm like 500% P on this. even if i made a decision, you or someone else could recommend some other stuff and i'd be defenseless to not considering them (although i would have ended up reconsidering on my own without any prompting). the longest i stayed convinced of one major was linguistics and that was for about a month

edit: i was just looking at wikipedia and thought sociolinguistics or psycholinguistics look good. what's the difference between linguistic anthropology and sociolinguistics?

[Hustler]

I am 31 years old and have wandered around since college doing some things but never feeling any kind of happiness, joy, satisfaction or dedication at all to what I was doing. It is like there has always been a wall inside of me that I was afraid to let down...and I kept saying that I was going to let it down, but I could never actually do it because I was too scared...instead I just kept wasting my time doing things I didn't care about...and now it seems like I have wasted too much time.

Perhaps you could tell me about some of your experiences since graduation. What are some of the things you have tried, and what about them has left you feeling satisfied. I would like to hear more about this wall you have been inside, as well. There is going to be a theme to my recommendations for you, and it is going to involve taking things one step at a time. When you are faced with a decade of unhappiness, with thousands of dollars of debt heaped upon it, things can look very gloomy, as though there is no escape from the hole you are in. At first, it will seem that you are a man faced with the daunting task of filling in a copper mine armed only with a garden spade. But each tiny scoop is that much closer to the completion of the task. So, in the spirit of this idea, I would like for you to share with me one small thing which has been imprisoned behind this wall. Pretend for a moment that I have taken a drill and bored a tiny hole somewhere in your wall. When I peer through it, what do I see?


I am feeling pretty desperate and without any kind of hope for the future because I feel so completely lost and off base (and my credit is getting ruined as well now) How would you suggest I go about getting my life together? I know this is all because I don't have enough confidence in myself and I feel like I don't deserve success and happiness. I feel that if I am who I naturally am then it won't be good enough in my eyes.

Continuing with my theme from before, I advise assessing things in discrete steps. Restoring your credit and having a meaningful relationship again are things which you can accomplish, but they are eventualities which can only come when you have first begun to take control of your life. In this, life is like a game of chess. When faced with a position on the board, the master thinks forward to a fantasy position he would like to establish. He does this by considering the imbalances in his current position and evaluating which moves can help him achieve his eventual fantasy position. He then makes one move, the first step in establishing his fantasy position. I want you to consider the current situation you find yourself in, and I want you to imagine a fantasy scenario for where your life could be if you could build from your current position and eliminate your problems, and if you could find happiness in your endeavors. Got it? Describe it to me. This is your first step. It is your move.

[Hustler]

it has just been a cycle of endlessly focusing on different criteria as most important and wondering which major would fit that criteria best...

I think the good news, joft, is that it isn't going to matter very much which of your proposed areas you end up majoring in. I am not saying this to disparage you or to suggest that your choices are unimportant, but I think you have the mind and heart of a true intellectual. I think any area of philosophy and/or the social sciences is going to be interesting to you, and you will be able to engage in the thinking process within their arenas for your entire life.

All that said, I do have a specific recommendation for you. I have considered all of our communication in the past and what I know about the type of intellectual curiosity you have, and I think that you should go into philosophy, and focus particularly on the following areas (in this order): philosophy of mind, philosophy of language, and philosophy of science. I am confident you will find intellectual fulfillment if you pursue those areas. That is my official recommendation, and I encourage you to consider it very seriously when you are selecting courses in the next couple of years.

[Hustler]

I want to download a song, but I can't find the title. I will describe it as best as I can:

It has a very haunted feeling to it, is bombastic, and is often used in haunted house rides on carnivals in belgium and france. It's sang by a choir. They start to sing four words which sound latin in a staccato rhythm - and sing louder and louder as the song continues. I can't describe it further. Can you help me, uncle Hustler?

I looked into it, Ape, but I can't find any information on the song you seek. Maybe you should ask a carnival worker.

[MacGuffin]

I want to download a song, but I can't find the title. I will describe it as best as I can:

It has a very haunted feeling to it, is bombastic, and is often used in haunted house rides on carnivals in belgium and france. It's sang by a choir. They start to sing four words which sound latin in a staccato rhythm - and sing louder and louder as the song continues. I can't describe it further. Can you help me, uncle Hustler?I looked into it, Ape, but I can't find any information on the song you seek. Maybe you should ask a carnival worker.
The "O Fortuna" movement from Carmina Burana?

[Hustler]

The "O Fortuna" movement from Carmina Burana?

That's a pretty good guess. I don't know why, but it would be funny to me if that were used in Belgian haunted houses.

[Star]

I want to download a song, but I can't find the title. I will describe it as best as I can:

It has a very haunted feeling to it, is bombastic, and is often used in haunted house rides on carnivals in belgium and france. It's sang by a choir. They start to sing four words which sound latin in a staccato rhythm - and sing louder and louder as the song continues. I can't describe it further. Can you help me, uncle Hustler?

Could be O Fortuna from Carmina Burana by Carl Orff. Very widely used for "scary" effect.

Owned by Mac! I didn't see his post. :p

[ApeTheDog]

Yes, that's the one indeed. I think I've had at least three or four periods in my life where I wanted to know what that song was. My quest is over, thanks MacGuffin and Deepsky.

Well, it is probably not often used in haunted house rides - that's just my first memory of ever hearing the song. I was doubting whether or not to go into the haunted house ride - one part of me was worried that I would be frightened, another part of me was frightened of how I would be perceived if I didn't dare go onto one of those. The song terrified me even more.

Ah, such sweet childhood memories. In the end, I went on - my first haunted house ride ever - and one of the last ones too as nothing even so much as surprised me. You could tell from the clicks when a monster would appear - and those rides are so short there's never any time when nothing happens, and you're lulled into a false sense of security.

[bergenski]

Perhaps you could tell me about some of your experiences since graduation. What are some of the things you have tried, and what about them has left you feeling satisfied. I would like to hear more about this wall you have been inside, as well.


I travelled a lot, I went over a lot of the world, and I liked it for the sheer adventure of it...feeling like I was always on the edge, that things were always going to be different every single day...I could go around looking at all kinds of interesting things and feel free of any kind of demands. Still, it wasn't entirely satisfying because I wasn't really doing anything...just kind of wandering around and looking at stuff...not so fulfilling. But it was pretty exciting and could be very interesting also.

I was also a journalist for three years, but really by default, since that's what I studied, but I was never really into it because I didn't like hunting down the stories and recording all of these facts and dealing with a lot of people...it could get kind of mechanical. But I did really like some of the mental aspects of it, like the creative formulaton of the stories...anything in which I could function in a totally internal manner so that I didn't have to deal with a lot of people (or any people, really) around me and I could synthesize my information the way I saw fit...more dealing with my own ideas and thoughts that were independent of strict organizational mandates. I loved sitting at in front of the computer and synthesizing the stories so that they were as good as I could make them, and then presenting them and having other people appreciate them.

My best time, clearly, when I was a journalist was when they sent me to Spain for a week to cover a story...I finally felt alive and free when I had been feeling dead until then, finally out in the world and not really knowing what was going to happen next or who was going to be around the corner...that kind of stimulation and ongoing excitement makes me feel alive and engaged...but it doesn't seem like a productive thing, just me kind of running around and having a good time.

The wall I put up is because my father was a manipulative prick who would try to hurt you emotionally and try to be controlling, so I always felt I had to be on my guard whenever he was around because I knew he was trying to manipulate me...I guess it then carried over into my regular life...it covers up what feels like a kind of raw vulnerability, a kind of bareness that if revealed could get really damaged. The wall has been up for so long I feel a kind of numbness these days.

I was once told by someone I respected that I should have my life figured out by age 30...but I allowed that benchmark to come and go while I sat by, ineffectual and impotent..it is like I have known always that I was wasting my life, but have never known exactly what I should do to change it, or I never had the balls to do something about it, or I thought I didn't deserve what I wanted. There was always the feeling like there was time for me to go after what I wanted...but I kept putting it off, putting it off, for so long that there now seems to literally be an internal point that has been crossed that makes me unable to feel like there is any future coming...that I allowed the moment to act to come and go as I sat by and now I have totally destroyed, or severely damaged, my chances of making my dreams a reality. It has never necessarily been about lack of confidence...but fear of having that confidence tested in reality so that it may be exposed as not up to the test.

But that ideal life you describe is now buried deep behind this wall...it is like totally suffocated and I can't even perceive it anymore...I can't comprehend specifically what it would be or looks like. And I had a lot going for me...good looking, reasonably intelligent, very well-educated...but just could never act on it and prove myself.

[joft]

I think that you should go into philosophy, and focus particularly on the following areas (in this order): philosophy of mind, philosophy of language, and philosophy of science.
yeah those sound great as majors, but college is only the next 2 or 3 years. what i'm gonna do for the rest of my life is more important than studying the thing I want to study most. i can study those things in my own time. so what am I supposed to do with a degree in philosophy? i'm pretty sure i'd hate being a professor and having to lecture on the same stuff semester after semester (and grade papers, etc)

[ApeTheDog]

I'm pretty sure you'll hate any and every job out there, joft. That's because jobs are meanth to be that way. A job is not about you, it's about that flour you produce, or those numbers you balance on your pc, and you become enslaved by it.

I think it's unavoidable, in any career, that you'll end up just plain doing the same things over and over again until you want to reach into your brain with your hands and knead it to a mush just so you can cry for five minutes and forget everything.

And that is why society is so absolutely terrific!

[joft]

I know, but I can still try to aim for the one which drives me slightly less insane. in that respect, I think the type of people I would be working with/around would be a large determining factor. and philosophers, imo, are pompous assholes who majored in philosophy because they like winning debates and sounding smart (I wouldn't be any exception to this)

[Ferrus]

I'm having trouble thinking of a way to be a happy INTP without having a job.
Surely you mean how to be a happy INTP vis-a-vis avoiding work?

[ApeTheDog]

I know, but I can still try to aim for the one which drives me slightly less insane. in that respect, I think the type of people I would be working with/around would be a large determining factor. and philosophers, imo, are pompous assholes who majored in philosophy because they like winning debates and sounding smart (I wouldn't be any exception to this)

Yeah, I remember you starting a thread about how who you work with should be the major deciding factor in which career you choose - some months ago.

Who would you want to work with, then?

[ApeTheDog]

Snowflake, don't... you will get yourself stuck confined in the purgatory this way.

Your post added nothing whatsoever to this thread, it was disruptive, uncalled for, and you've been doing this for long enough that it's obvious you're not even targeting joft personally but are just doing this because you think it's fun(ny).

Do YOU want lots and lots of posts like this in the forum? Is this really what you like reading - because for lots of other people, it isn't.

[Snowflake]

What should I do next time I'm driving home and someone calls me a moron?

[Snowflake]

Snowflake, don't... you will get yourself stuck confined in the purgatory this way.

Your post added nothing whatsoever to this thread, it was disruptive, uncalled for, and you've been doing this for long enough that it's obvious you're not even targeting joft personally but are just doing this because you think it's fun(ny).

Do YOU want lots and lots of posts like this in the forum? Is this really what you like reading - because for lots of other people, it isn't.

WTF are you going on about? STFU already.

[ApeTheDog]

Why are you flaming people when there is no reason? What was your reason, in this case, were you calling joft an asshole?

I suspect it's because "it is fun". That isn't a good reason if you're annoying other people on this forum with it.

Do you need me to tell you what it is you're doing wrong? You've re-invented your whole online personality in the last couple of weeks - becoming quite irritating to a lot of people. So basically, what I'm talking about is every single thing you have done in the last weeks.

You have to quit it, because it is irritating other people - as you are perfectly aware it does (You did not use to do this. For this very reason - because you knew it was annoying others)

[Hustler]

yeah those sound great as majors, but college is only the next 2 or 3 years. what i'm gonna do for the rest of my life is more important than studying the thing I want to study most. i can study those things in my own time. so what am I supposed to do with a degree in philosophy? i'm pretty sure i'd hate being a professor and having to lecture on the same stuff semester after semester (and grade papers, etc)

I am aware of this, and it was all taken into account when I made my official recommendation. The recommendation stands. You should be a philosophy major, and focus on the aforementioned areas.

[Hustler]

What should I do next time I'm driving home and someone calls me a moron?

Is someone telling you this on the phone? Are you carpooling? Who is calling you this? I'm going to need you to describe the situation in further detail.

[ptGatsby]

Hmm... I think I'm going to take this seriously. I probably won't get a more direct (and yet elusive answer) from anyone else.


One problem I'm constantly having is the feeling that I haven't accomplished something. I just did a presentation, but feel I could of done more. The last couple of days, I cooked what amounts to a pretty fancy meal; I feel I could of done more. When I play a game, be it something 'Starcraft' or something like 'World of Warcraft', I feel like I could of done better. I don't get satisfaction from the things I do and accomplish.

Another offshoot from this is that I felt like I should always of spent 'rest' time doing something productive. If I play a game for a couple hours, I feel like I should of done something productive. If I am doing something productive, I feel like I should be doing something *more* productive. If I read a book, I think I should of written a book. If I write a book (well... a document :P ), I feel like I should of done what I described. If I go out to do what I would of described, I feel like I should of done something 'bigger'.

Any idea what this stems from? And how do I deal with it? It interferes with a lot of stuff - more than just not being able to relax!

[Hustler]

To messup,

There are no easy answers or quick fixes to your problem, but I'm sure you are already aware of this. You remind me of someone I know. He is your age, very smart, well-educated, and yet he cannot find happiness or satisfaction in anything he does and defaults to doing nothing and going nowhere. One thing you have over him, though, is that he probably wouldn't describe himself as good looking. Everyone who knows this guy pretty much knows the kinds of things he has to do to get his life in order, and he knows them too, but he simply lacks the force of will to try. He is very depressed and very lazy.

So, I can offer a few recommendations to you, and words of encouragement but, in the end, it is up to you to summon the will to start taking action. You know what your problems are; you have even managed to list them. You know why your wall is up, and you know that, while it may protect you from some emotional harm, it is isolating you and stifling your growth at the same time. I find in your own words a glimmer of hope:


There was always the feeling like there was time for me to go after what I wanted...but I kept putting it off, putting it off, for so long that there now seems to literally be an internal point that has been crossed that makes me unable to feel like there is any future coming...that I allowed the moment to act to come and go as I sat by and now I have totally destroyed, or severely damaged, my chances of making my dreams a reality.

You have left open the possibility that you have only severely damaged any chances of making your dreams a reality. Damage can be restored. Even total destruction makes way for the construction of something completely new and better. Whatever the case, you're only 31, so things aren't hopeless. Countless people who were no doubt less capable and worse off than you went on to turn things around at even later points in their lives.

The next step for you is to accept that how you have done things up to this point has not worked for you. You are not satisfied with where you are now. This means it is time for a change. If you don't start making changes, things will not get better. Try not to get bogged down in overanalyzing everything you do, just accept that you cannot predict the future, and doing something different has the potential to improve your situation. Be willing to try a few things.

My first suggestion is to find employment somewhere. I realize that I am generally categorically opposed to an INTP having a job, but you are in no position, mentally or financially (but mainly the former), to strike out on your own and do something totally unconventional. You have to get your self-confidence and motivation to reach a better place in life restored first and chip away at your debt. I suggest a job which is labor-oriented, and preferably something outside. I don't recommend anything in retail or whatever which involves too much social interaction. Long hours of heavy labor conducted in relative silence will actually prove less draining and more satisfying. Or, if you're looking for a radical change, there's always the Peace Corps ( http://peacecorp.gov/).

Another thing you'll have to do is realize that not everyone is like your father. Taking down the wall in front of someone might be nice. Even if you end up taking an emotional hit on account of it, the sting will be better than the unending numbness. I'm not saying to expose yourself all at once to someone, but don't be afraid to tell someone one or two things which have been behind that wall, just waiting to get out.

As I said in my last message, the reconstruction of your life will have to come in steps. Each step will be an act of will on your part. It will sometimes seem that you are operating on faith (in yourself, maybe), which, to an INTP might be just enough to make you balk at the idea of taking the step, but to the objective observer outside your mental world, it will look like you are taking very rational steps to improve yourself. Keep that in mind when you begin to be plagued by a sense of doubt or doom.

Additionally, you may want to seek professional help. As I've said, I am but a psychotherapeutic hack on an online forum. You are probably suffering from some serious depression which has sapped you of all motivation. Perhaps it stems from the emotional cage your father forced you into, or perhaps it is just that you are yet another victim of civilization's guilt-inducing ways. Whatever the case, you could probably benefit from some actual psychiatric evaluation and possible medication.

By the way, two books you might enjoy reading are 'Civilization and its Discontents' by Freud and 'Games People Play: The basic handbook of transactional analysis' by Berne. Both will be illuminating to you in your current situation.

[Hustler]

One problem I'm constantly having is the feeling that I haven't accomplished something. I just did a presentation, but feel I could of done more. The last couple of days, I cooked what amounts to a pretty fancy meal; I feel I could of done more. When I play a game, be it something 'Starcraft' or something like 'World of Warcraft', I feel like I could of done better. I don't get satisfaction from the things I do and accomplish.

Another offshoot from this is that I felt like I should always of spent 'rest' time doing something productive. If I play a game for a couple hours, I feel like I should of done something productive. If I am doing something productive, I feel like I should be doing something *more* productive. If I read a book, I think I should of written a book. If I write a book (well... a document :P ), I feel like I should of done what I described. If I go out to do what I would of described, I feel like I should of done something 'bigger'.

Any idea what this stems from? And how do I deal with it? It interferes with a lot of stuff - more than just not being able to relax!

Does this stem from a sense of competition? When you play Starcraft, you realize there are "better" players, and knowing this makes you think you could have done better. When you read a book, do you think to yourself, "I could write a book like this and get paid and get ther recognition this guy got"? You can guess why I am speculating along these lines. It's a problem I have had as well and, from what I've read of your posts so far, you strike me as a competitive guy who sets high standards for himself. Playing competitive chess and realizing that I would never be a Kasparov no matter how hard I tried, and that there were going to be people at every major tournament I attended who would destroy me in 10 out of 10 games cured me of this. Even now, I will kick myself for hours if I make a mistake in a game of Scrabble or a hand of poker. Sometimes, it is hard to let it go when you don't live up to your own standards, but that is really the only thing you can do in the end. What's done is done, and you can't reclaim hours you've already spent doing something.

What you are doing is somehow measuring your self-worth in how you spend your time. You think that, if you could have done something more productive in the last 2 hours, you would be a more worthwhile person now. I don't know if I can tell you how to cure this. You just have to realize that you're but one of billions of people on the planet and, ultimately, whether you read a book or write a book, it just doesn't matter. Did you enjoy the book? If so, that's great. Did it provoke a new thought in you? If so, you've gained. It is important to keep challenging yourself but, try to remember that for an N, the satisfaction should come from the journey, not from the outcome.

[nottaprettygal]

What's the best way to improve my Scrabble game? Just playing a lot or trying to memorize word lists?

[bergenski]

snip

I appreciate your thoughts quite sincerely. I was curious why you suggested labor-intensive work, as I am not generally very physically oriented and have such a good education. Also, how would you recommend I leverage it for a stepping stone to future considerations? Finally, I was wondering how you'd suggest seducing females, as I could use improvement in that category! They are always quite interested in me but I find the relational aspects to be rather difficult...

[ptGatsby]

Does this stem from a sense of competition? When you play Starcraft, you realize there are "better" players, and knowing this makes you think you could have done better. When you read a book, do you think to yourself, "I could write a book like this and get paid and get ther recognition this guy got"?


I am heavily competitive, you are right. But not to win exactly. I don't feel bad when someone is actually a lot better than me; I respect it, I want it... and I learn from them. Doesn't mean I need to be better, or to be victorious over them. I just need to be better than I was last time. No tolerance for obvious and stupid mistakes.

A good example is competitive chess, since I did that briefly when I was young. I was bored and unhappy when I won; it implied that I couldn't learn or improve from that game. I needed the challenge, to work on something. To grow? Yet, I'm not happy when I lose; but I have purpose, focus. Something to aspire towards!

What I have now is none of the purpose or focus! I just get frustrated, never really moving forward (feeling or percieved? Tangibly I tend to move forward, but it never feels like it). Never happy with what I have done or what I'm going to do...



You can guess why I am speculating along these lines. It's a problem I have had as well and, from what I've read of your posts so far, you strike me as a competitive guy who sets high standards for himself.


Hmm, I didn't realise that came across. What exactly is that impression stemming from?

High standards... I guess so. Though lately high hasn't been that high. Then again... are they 'high' and I'm just unhappy with them now? Hmm... a good question.



You just have to realize that you're but one of billions of people on the planet and, ultimately, whether you read a book or write a book, it just doesn't matter. Did you enjoy the book? If so, that's great. Did it provoke a new thought in you? If so, you've gained. It is important to keep challenging yourself but, try to remember that for an N, the satisfaction should come from the journey, not from the outcome.


I completely agree, but emotionally... its just not triggering. I don't feel right after I've 'wasted' my time, even though it is rarely 'wasted'. More and more I'm getting frustrated when I can't do something right immediately, as if I could. Its not exactly a problem, but it is starting to influence my behaviour.

The problem is that I don't enjoy reading the book - too much push to go onto the next thing.

--

I guess up front, the question I'd ask - just from your perspective - what environmental change would you look for that could trigger a sudden increase in this 'behaviour'? A lot of it is recent... heavily exagerated. I figured it could be a stress reaction - I'm somewhat overloaded at work, just moved, living with my GF (J!) now...

If I assume that is true, how should I deal with it? Deal with the problems (what problems!?) upfront? I can't even identify the problem, or a solution.

As a side note, I managed to calm myself down by doing tedious 'S' like tasks (gaming, at work, etc). But it comes back stronger fairly quickly, making me feel like I've wasted myself on the S task!

[Snowflake]

Is someone telling you this on the phone? Are you carpooling? Who is calling you this? I'm going to need you to describe the situation in further detail.

It happened while I was in my car driving home from class. My window is open, because it's hot, and I don't like using the A/C because it makes my car sluggish. So I'm coming up on a turn I need to take. It's a two lane road with a 4 way intersection. The road I was turning onto was also a fairly narrow two lane road (this is important). The light was green and there was no opposing traffic, so I turned. As I did so, a car was pulling up to the light on the road I was turning onto. Because the road is narrow, the line which you are supposed to stop at is set back nearly a small cars length to give cars turning in room to turn, and as I did so, when I passed the car, the seemingly young driver shouted "moron!" into my window.

[Hustler]

What's the best way to improve my Scrabble game? Just playing a lot or trying to memorize word lists?

Here are a few steps which should improve your game:

1. Learn all of the two-letter words.
2. Learn the power of the S-hook. This is the move of placing the S at the end of one word and building a word perpendicular to it. This gets you points for both words, and it makes getting a bingo on your new word very realistic. S pluralizes most nouns and can be use to alter the case of most verbs.
3. Keep moving the tiles around on your rack. Keep doing it while you search for words. Try using common letter combinations (like ING or ED at the end) and then shifting the other letters around in conjunction with that.
4. Always try to get 30 or more points everytime you play a blank. Eventually, you will want to increase that number, but start out shooting for 30 each time. The blank can, of course, be used for the mighty S-hook as well.

Do those things in that order and your game will improve.

[Hustler]

I appreciate your thoughts quite sincerely. I was curious why you suggested labor-intensive work, as I am not generally very physically oriented and have such a good education. Also, how would you recommend I leverage it for a stepping stone to future considerations? Finally, I was wondering how you'd suggest seducing females, as I could use improvement in that category! They are always quite interested in me but I find the relational aspects to be rather difficult...

The physical nature of a labor-intensive job will make you feel physically tired at the end of the day, but not mentally drained from social interaction or emotionally drained from idleness. It will give you time to work alone and think about things. It will spark new patterns of thought and you will find new ideas coming to you. It worked like that for me, so that's why I'm suggesting it for you. Don't be a prisoner to your education. You don't have to justify it in everything you do. For an intuitive, it should be its own justification. As for leverage, beyond the notion that you will be able to think about things from a new perspective, you will earn some money and get started in eliminating your debt.

On the subject of seducing women, there are online forums devoted specifically to that. You might want to go to them and check out their introductory/FAQ type stuff, and then, if you are up for it, investigate their forums. Whatever the case, you're more likely to find good information at a site like that than a site like this.

[Hustler]

ptGatsby,

Just as an aside, you should also consider reading the book by Bern I recommended to messup (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345410033/ref=pd_kar_gw_1/103-6123875-8378260?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155).

Now, onto your problems. I think that you were on the right track when you asked me to speculate the source from which this problem of never being satisfied with how you spend your time has originated. You are logically aware that this approach to life is pointless, you are aware that you have a lot going on in your life and you have certainly earned the right to "waste time," but, whatever you do, you feel without purpose. You are aware of these things but, at the same time, you can't seem to get past them. This implies to me that there is something deeper at work. You have asked me to speculate on it, but I think it is better that you tell me why you are this way. I think you know, but it is going to require you being honest with yourself and probing for insecurities (or possibly even something traumatic) whose influence on you lead to an end result of you not allowing yourself to be happy or satisfied with how you've spent your time. You may even have to admit to an irrational mode of thought in all of this, which will be hard for someone with standards for himself like you have.

I happen to subscribe to the belief that we are born and we die, and everything in between is basically a waste of time. The trick is to allow yourself to enjoy that space in between, and you haven't let yourself do it. You push yourself, but to what end? As you said with chess, you didn't even enjoy it when you won. If you wrote the book instead of reading it or wtfpwnd the entire server at Starcraft, you would probably end up feeling exactly the same as you did when you won a chess tournament. Until you free yourself from the clutches of the psychological factors at work here, I don't think anything will change.

[Ferrus]

I happen to subscribe to the belief that we are born and we die, and everything in between is basically a waste of time. The trick is to allow yourself to enjoy that space in between, and you haven't let yourself do it.
To be fair some things are necessitated by life, the trick is as Camus notedto try to find some way in which the banal can become a positive experience.

[ptGatsby]

You have asked me to speculate on it, but I think it is better that you tell me why you are this way.


I suspect a lot of different factors;

1) My parents were SPs, and more recently, I've seen them as full blown SPs. Utterly expierence driven. I can't shake the feeling that their drive to do things has some sort of influence on how I think my life should be. I've taken some psychology, so I realise the development years can surface in and around 30 - I'm getting close.

- This would act out as a need to expierence more and more things, but never actually enjoy them... maybe? Doesn't feel right though.

2) Plenty of outcasting as a kid. Not to dwell on the INTP stories, but I have always been something of an outcast. You know the usual sob story; bullying blah blah. It was also during developmental years, ending sometime around 13-14. After that, solid friends and life.

- Could result in me looking for approval?

3) I know I have a fairly hyperactive mind - I've had problems with sleep and stress most of my life. At times, my thoughts become rather 'skitish', requiring me to pull back and gather myself. I wouldn't say ADD or the like, no problems concentrating on things, etc.

- Maybe a particular imbalance in myself, in which case I'd need to look at physical signs and maybe a diagnosis.

4) A particular insecurity is the way people percieve me; possibly a result of #2. I don't really care what people think about me, exactly, but more how I will be seen holistically... incompetent, etc.

- A need to be accepted? Maybe.

5) My last one is the one I currently accept. I'm projecting a (to use MBTI terminology, but replace as desired) need to be 'SJ' onto everything I do... such that I feel wrong when being myself, but feel wrong not being myself. This double bind never allows a proper outlet. The source of this could be nebulous; it would be buried deep in my psyche... the obvious effects would be the anxiety, etc... and also explain the reason I'm not happy with accomplishment, nor without it.

- A constant feeling of never fitting in; nothing I do ever has the desired result I'm really looking for? Or maybe a real tug of war between my aptitudes and selected lifestyle (I doubt this because I've tried other lifestyles... it doesn't work for me either).




You may even have to admit to an irrational mode of thought in all of this, which will be hard for someone with standards for himself like you have.


I'm not sure I understand this; you mean that it is an irrational component in myself, something I'll have to deal with irrationally?



Until you free yourself from the clutches of the psychological factors at work here, I don't think anything will change.


I completely agree. I just can't identify them. Just sitting down and going "I'm going to enjoy this" doesn't work... I've talked to those around me, none of which have any clue what I'm talking about. My GF has noted that I seem very on edge, etc. So its not just a projection!

--

I took a couple of days off work, incidently. I want to eliminate one source of active distress to see if it will help resolve this issue. If I calm down, then I know its either active distress on top of systemic distress. Its only a few days, but I'm using it as a quick test. I needed it anyway, heh

[bergenski]

Could you illuminate how you go about gaining satisfaction and happiness...it could be beneficial to understand your methods...(incidentally, have you heard about the "happy" class now being taught at Harvard...all about how to achieve happiness, and it is immensely popular)

[Pooja]

satisfaction: Accomplishing something "my" way (usually, that happens to be procrastinating), and having it deemed successful.

happiness: living to my full human potential (through both sensory experiences and emotions).

[Hustler]

Could you illuminate how you go about gaining satisfaction and happiness...it could be beneficial to understand your own methods...

Ideas. Thinking about stuff. Uncovering the mysteries of existence. Seeing life, the universe and everything as a big statistical process. Defeating my hapless foes at online poker in order to pad my bank account and invest the money so that, if I don't die suddenly, I can do something with it someday. Reading things. Consuming media of all varieties and letting it entertain me. But, mostly existing in a realm of ideas which buzz and hum so vibrantly that the miserable, mundane side of life is but an occasional irritant.

[bergenski]

Ideas. Thinking about stuff. Uncovering the mysteries of existence. Seeing life, the universe and everything as a big statistical process. Defeating my hapless foes at online poker in order to pad my bank account and invest the money so that, if I don't die suddenly, I can do something with it someday. Reading things. Consuming media of all varieties and letting it entertain me. But, mostly existing in a realm of ideas which buzz and hum so vibrantly that the miserable, mundane side of life is but an occasional irritant.

Well, I can safely say you are an intelligent motherfucker...but I know you know that...

[Hustler]

I want you to continue to consider the source of your problems, because identifying and facing that is probably the only way to overcome this, short of just willing yourself to change. Incidentally, that's what I did. I maintain my competitive streak and exacting standards for myself, but I consider any minute spent a minute in which I have gained wisdom. Some minutes are more saturated with personal gain than others, but they all offer something.

I don't really know enough about you to really be able to pin down why you are this way. I suspect some serious insecurity has left you in this state, but the people who actually know you are probably going to be a better sounding board. I can only say that your competitive and exacting nature are at odds with some other component of your personality. I don't think that the former is in any way a compensation technique for something but, for some reason, you are not accepting of who you are and, as such, refuse to "reward" yourself by being satisfied with how you are. This is at odds with your competitive side, because you can't enjoy the fruits of your labor.


I'm not sure I understand this; you mean that it is an irrational component in myself, something I'll have to deal with irrationally?

An irrational component in yourself.


I completely agree. I just can't identify them. Just sitting down and going "I'm going to enjoy this" doesn't work... I've talked to those around me, none of which have any clue what I'm talking about. My GF has noted that I seem very on edge, etc. So its not just a projection!

Do you think you have been as open and honest with those whose counsel you trust as you have to yourself and here at INTP Central?


I took a couple of days off work, incidently. I want to eliminate one source of active distress to see if it will help resolve this issue. If I calm down, then I know its either active distress on top of systemic distress. Its only a few days, but I'm using it as a quick test. I needed it anyway, heh

Excellent decision. You could use a little more "you" time to sort all of this out. Enjoying your time in this world should be your top priority, so you deserve the chance to figure this out.

[Hustler]

satisfaction: Accomplishing something "my" way (usually, that happens to be procrastinating), and having it deemed successful.

happiness: living to my full human potential (through both sensory experiences and emotions).

If you want to accomplish something your way, but you don't enjoy your current course of study in school, I would say that you're short-changing yourself. I understand that you have pressures on you from many places, and you have bought into a certain type of future which society/parents/etc. have told you you "should" have. Are they right? Would you be happy with yourself if you just did what you wanted to do? Because that is what doing something your way is all about. I think you are trying to answer your own expectations, but those expectations are a muddling of your own desires and those which have been put upon you. Sort out what is really you and answer to that.

I think your goal of living to your full human potential is noble but, of course, I encourage you to really think about it and decide exactly what that means. An INTP can only achieve satisfaction by answering to his own intellectual judgment. Following anything else will leave you feeling empty.

[Rajah]

Other than internet poker, what's the best legal way to earn money and pay off my bills, so I don't have to hold down a regular job like other suckers?

[Hustler]

Other than internet poker, what's the best legal way to earn money and pay off my bills, so I don't have to hold down a regular job like other suckers?

Some dude in the chatroom was talking about online blackjack. Kidding but, seriously, prostitution is legal in some jurisdiction. I imagine the pay would be superior to lawyering.

[Pooja]

You could try playing the stock market? It's comparable to online gambling though. (jk Hustler)

[Hustler]

You could try playing the stock market? It's comparable to online gambling though. (jk Hustler)

Actually, that's not such a terrible idea. I met a girl last week who has done that for the last 2 years.

[ptGatsby]

Do you think you have been as open and honest with those whose counsel you trust as you have to yourself and here at INTP Central?


I took this to heart and showed my GF the thread and my overall feelings. She knows me very well; yes, I'm very open about my life to those I'm close to...

She deduced the problem almost immediately; but I wanted to thank you for your comments. They helped immensely.

[Hustler]

I took this to heart and showed my GF the thread and my overall feelings. She knows me very well; yes, I'm very open about my life to those I'm close to...

She deduced the problem almost immediately; but I wanted to thank you for your comments. They helped immensely.

Great, good luck with everything.

[bergenski]

You have given me some excellent stuff and I thank you sincerely. One of the biggest things I get from people is that they say I don't know who I am...I was wondering how you would suggest I go about discovering the answer and how I can accept what it is...sorry if my questions appear elemental to you but I would appreciate your input regardless...

[Sackanaka]

[pointing out the obvious]

No one can say Hustler has done nothing positive for the people.

[joft]

I want to take advantage of your offer for advice for real, but my philosophy requires that I don't "look up" to anyone, or seek answers outside of myself. Is this irrational bullshit or a respectable sign of independence or something?

[mgb]

I appreciate your thoughts quite sincerely. I was curious why you suggested labor-intensive work, as I am not generally very physically oriented and have such a good education. Also, how would you recommend I leverage it for a stepping stone to future considerations? Finally, I was wondering how you'd suggest seducing females, as I could use improvement in that category! They are always quite interested in me but I find the relational aspects to be rather difficult...

If you really want to make a lot of money quickly with physical labour, I'd suggest coming up to Alberta and getting a job on the rigs. If you worked for four weeks straight you could make enough to pay off 80% of your credit card debt. They provide the accomodations and food and even pay you to use them. Within two months all your debt would be gone. After a year you'd have enough for a downpayment on a house, even a whole house in some areas.

The only catch is you have to be able to lift 90lbs. Some days, you have to lift 90lbs up to 200 times. But those days are pretty rare.

The way the exchange rate is right now, you could do pretty well pretty quickly.

[bergenski]

If you really want to make a lot of money quickly with physical labour, I'd suggest coming up to Alberta and getting a job on the rigs. If you worked for four weeks straight you could make enough to pay off 80% of your credit card debt. They provide the accomodations and food and even pay you to use them. Within two months all your debt would be gone. After a year you'd have enough for a downpayment on a house, even a whole house in some areas.

The only catch is you have to be able to lift 90lbs. Some days, you have to lift 90lbs up to 200 times. But those days are pretty rare.

The way the exchange rate is right now, you could do pretty well pretty quickly.

I have to say I am not totally keen on the labor suggestion, though I certainly understand the rationale. How hard is it to get up there if I am coming from the US (and am an American...)

[sasapurdue]

Perhaps you could share an example of the type of commitment you are talking about. Do you mean something as simple as agreeing to meet someone for a movie at 7:30pm? Are you talking about commitments in the workplace or romantic commitments?

A lot of different areas. It could be something as simple as my friend would like me to start going with her to yoga classes every Wednesday at 6. Well at first that will sound great and I will say "yes". Then when Wednesday rolls around I will start dreading the committment and try to find a way to get out of it. Now, if I hadn't committed to going and it was optional, I would have no problem going. It is some weird psychological thing.

It applies also in more "important" areas of my life also. For instance, deciding whether to break up with someone or stay together. I realize this is a tough decision for most people, but most people don't spend two years fretting about whether or not to do it. I can create a very sound justification in my mind for why to do it. I am convinced I want to do it. Then I do it and the rationale for the other side of the argument forms in my mind, now equally sound. Then, I start finding ways to undo my decision.
I can not committ to a decision, basically.

[mgb]

I have to say I am not totally keen on the labor suggestion, though I certainly understand the rationale. How hard is it to get up there if I am coming from the US (and am an American...)

I'm not sure. I imagine if you don't have a criminal record, pretty easy. I think you just need a work visa. And don't worry, you aren't taking jobs from Canadians, they are totally short staffed up there.

You might even try looking for jobs in the states first. I know they have drilling in Montana and Texas (probably all the way down to Texas too).

And make sure you just flat out lie if you don't have any work experience in manual labour. Even have a friend (who owns a pretend construction company or whatever) give you a reference or wait for a phone call.

[ApeTheDog]

We are still looking for someone who wants to write the FAQ for newbie INTP's who join the forums. Would you know of anyone, Hustler?

It should preferably be someone with experience in giving out psychotherapy and advice.

Thank you.
- Desperate, Belgium

[C.J.Woolf]

You might even try looking for jobs in the states first. I know they have drilling in Montana and Texas (probably all the way down to Texas too).
I interviewed a recent college grad who spent summers working on rigs in Wyoming.

[Obelix]

DIDN'T WORK. Do you prescribe an increased dosage of tequila?

[mgb]

DIDN'T WORK. Do you prescribe an increased dosage of tequila?

Maybe practice on yourself until you can find the correct dosage.

[mgb]

I interviewed a recent college grad who spent summers working on rigs in Wyoming.

Yeah, it's not like it used to be as far as the personalities doing it. I think because of the money they are ending up with a more diverse group of people working on the rigs.

[Hustler]

You have given me some excellent stuff and I thank you sincerely. One of the biggest things I get from people is that they say I don't know who I am...I was wondering how you would suggest I go about discovering the answer and how I can accept what it is...sorry if my questions appear elemental to you but I would appreciate your input regardless...

This is a challenging question. I think I find myself a lot in my own head, in the ideas I discussed in my previous post. My daydreams and thoughts when I am alone tell me more about myself than how I act around other people or what I do in the course of any given day. I think this springs from my optimistic nature. I am open to possibilities of who I am and who I can be. Sometimes, on a bad day, self-deprecating thoughts creep in, but they are ephemeral and make no lasting impression. I used to be in a mental state similar to yours, I'd say. I was very disaffected and dejected for years, and I guess it all stopped when I began to adjust my expectations in life to be more in line with my own personal interests and desires (as learned through my thoughts and ideas when I was along) and more removed from social pressures. I stopped thinking about the past, my mistakes, and so on and how it will play out in my future, and I just started thinking about my life in stages, and how each stage is a new puzzle to solve which will unlock new modes of thinking and new experiences.

Yeah, that answer is a little, well, you know. Maybe you can get something out of it.

[Hustler]

I want to take advantage of your offer for advice for real, but my philosophy requires that I don't "look up" to anyone, or seek answers outside of myself. Is this irrational bullshit or a respectable sign of independence or something?

It is probably a little of both, joft. I think that the irrational component springs from a lack of self-confidence. It takes a certain amount of trust in yourself to be open to advice from others, because it takes you admitting you don't know everything, but you know enough to be able to correctly evaluate something someone tells you and then make good use of it. Defaulting to thinking that it is never worth it to "look up" to an authority is mainly a defense mechanism built up around the idea that it's easier to be close-minded than to challenge your own ability to synthesize ideas learned from others. You want to attribute this all to indepdence, because if nothing else, you are certain that you don't want to be in any way like the mindless SJ types who go through life without critically analyzing the instructions that are handed down to them from "authorities." There is some element of you recognizing the pitfalls of that way of life and avoiding it, but that is definitely not all that is at work.

[Hustler]

DIDN'T WORK. Do you prescribe an increased dosage of tequila?

Then it is time you were open to determining the real reason for your inorgasmic state. It is time you find out the psychological reason, the association you have made with sex and something traumatic, and confronted it. Or just up the dosage. The problem is, if you up the dosage too much, you won't remember if you had an orgasm or not, so it won't even matter.

[Hustler]

We are still looking for someone who wants to write the FAQ for newbie INTP's who join the forums. Would you know of anyone, Hustler?

It should preferably be someone with experience in giving out psychotherapy and advice.

Thank you.
- Desperate, Belgium

Claverhouse will do it.

[Hustler]

sasapurdue,

I have bad news for you; you're asking an INTP to give you help regarding decision-making and commitment. This seems borderline Herculean to me, but let's think about it some. My own method of dealing with this is to simply not make commitments (or at least be very sparing with them). I, too, get annoyed by having any semblance of a calendar encroach upon my life, and it sometimes even makes me resent people who insist on scheduling things. But, I don't think I have quite as strong a reaction as you do. Do you have any idea what the reason is that you get anxious when faced with a commitment? Do you get the feeling that you are missing out on something potentially better when you commit to another thing? When you are feeling anxious, what kind of thoughts are running through your mind. In the hours before that 6 o'clock yoga class on Wednesday, what are you thinking about?

I don't really know what to tell you regarding making decisions more easily or more quickly yet, but I am sure it is just me wanting to delay the decision to give you advice until I've gotten sufficient information. It sounds like you are overwhelmed by the overanalysis which plagues a lot of INTPs when faced with a big decision, so you just take the path of least resistance and don't make a decision. Is this because you are pessimistic? You believe that your decision will result in your life getting worse? Or, is it because you are lazy, and you will rationalize not making a decision because, whatever you decide, it is going to require effort on your part to implement it?

[Conan]

Is it possible to organize a post-work trip to a local watering hole and see to it that she show up? Does she have anyone in the office who is interested in her but who has no shot with her? See, you could invite that dude and tell him to invite people. He would invite her and, upon hearing that you were going to be there, she'd come along. Alternately, you could orchestrate a carpooling event which has her take you home or you take her home. Things could just kind of happen after that. And, whatever, you could still just use the "I was drunk" excuse, even if it sounds implausible. Just refuse to accept any damaging charges against your reputation which could result from the hookup. Personally, I like moving toward the rake angle, and using this as a springboard to more hookups. As I recall, there are others in your place of business that you'd be interesting in hitting before you leave for grad school or Austin or whatever.

So I found out today quasi-fat girl is also engaged. Im so bad at interpreting signals from girls. So much for that.

[Thatfeelsnice]

I am currently a student at a major university. My intended major has been computer science. In my first year, I had a few A's and a few F's. The second year, in both semesters, I stopped going to my classes after a month or less, and failed everything. I just didn't care, and goofed off. I enjoyed my time, but in the end I wasted a lot of money failing classes. I was academically suspended, and the only way I could get back in was to say I was depressed. I took a semester off, taking classes at a community college and living with my mom. I aced all my classes there, but mainly because my mom made me go to class. (the classes were also ridiculously easy) Now I'm back at NCSU for my 5th semester, and I am passing half my classes, but have given up on my other classes. My academic life story has always been that I test well, have a high IQ, but never do any homework unless it's interesting. I think a lot of other INTPs can relate to me on that one. I really have no idea what I am doing with my life. Ideally I just want to be happy and be loved. I am changing my major from computer science to statistics, but I don't really have a reason why, I just can't commit. I am enjoying my life, having fun with friends and whatnot, but I just am too lazy to put any effort into my classes. I am wasting a potentially great opportunity (at least that's what I am always told) Basically my question is, what the heck is wrong with me, and how can I improve my situation?

[Hustler]

So I found out today quasi-fat girl is also engaged. Im so bad at interpreting signals from girls. So much for that.

Maybe you need to figure out a way to specialize in engaged women. You could get unlimited action.

[Rajah]

Some dude in the chatroom was talking about online blackjack. Kidding but, seriously, prostitution is legal in some jurisdiction. I imagine the pay would be superior to lawyering.Somehow I knew you'd say that.

[Hustler]

I am currently a student at a major university. My intended major has been computer science. In my first year, I had a few A's and a few F's. The second year, in both semesters, I stopped going to my classes after a month or less, and failed everything. I just didn't care, and goofed off. I enjoyed my time, but in the end I wasted a lot of money failing classes. I was academically suspended, and the only way I could get back in was to say I was depressed. I took a semester off, taking classes at a community college and living with my mom. I aced all my classes there, but mainly because my mom made me go to class. (the classes were also ridiculously easy) Now I'm back at NCSU for my 5th semester, and I am passing half my classes, but have given up on my other classes. My academic life story has always been that I test well, have a high IQ, but never do any homework unless it's interesting. I think a lot of other INTPs can relate to me on that one. I really have no idea what I am doing with my life. Ideally I just want to be happy and be loved. I am changing my major from computer science to statistics, but I don't really have a reason why, I just can't commit. I am enjoying my life, having fun with friends and whatnot, but I just am too lazy to put any effort into my classes. I am wasting a potentially great opportunity (at least that's what I am always told) Basically my question is, what the heck is wrong with me, and how can I improve my situation?

You are forcing yourself to get an education, and you don't even know why. You are studying specific areas for which you have no deep interest. It sounds like you are just going through the motions, but you don't really care about what you are studying. There are several options open to you to remedy this situation. I would suggest considering either taking a year off from your studies to gain some perspective, or switching your area of study to something completely different. You're an INTP, so there must be something out there which is really interesting to you.

[bergenski]

You remind me of someone I know. He is your age, very smart, well-educated, and yet he cannot find happiness or satisfaction in anything he does and defaults to doing nothing and going nowhere. Everyone who knows this guy pretty much knows the kinds of things he has to do to get his life in order, and he knows them too, but he simply lacks the force of will to try. He is very depressed and very lazy.


This is me to a T...except for the *very* smart part. I am not *very* smart. But my unhappiness is more profound each day. I know your suggestions, but there is nothing specific I can discern to break the pattern. It's like I feel there is nothing that has the potential to happen. That I am just going to be this way for the rest of my life. I know I just have to take some sort of action, but I can't really decide what it should be...and feel it's just going to be leading to more unhappiness. It is really hard to have every day be so filled with nothingness. It is literally like an empty space of time. It doesn't matter if I am in or out of bed, it all feels the same. I understand your suggestion about getting labor. But for me it just seems like a way to continue evading a final decision on my life. I wish I didn't take myself so seriously...but it is very hard to lighten up. It's kind of against my constitution.

[dubbeltop]

I have a desire to become an animal a sheep in fact so i can just mind my own business and longer be bothered by this f. bs soceity. is this normal?sheep rulezzzz.ever noticed how happy a sheep is? omg i just want too live in utter harmony and......... meheheheh meheheheh mehhehhehe eheh emmehjeheh.

[Hustler]

I understand your suggestion about getting labor. But for me it just seems like a way to continue evading a final decision on my life.

So what if it is? You're doing that anyway. At least this way you are trying something different, and perhaps making some money to help chip away at your debt.

[Fingers]

Dear Uncle Hustler,

How can I increase my intelligence, everyday I wake up thinking I’m stupider than yesterday I don’t want to repeat doing the same thing over and over again until it sticks, because I lack focus too.

[Hustler]

Dear Uncle Hustler,

How can I increase my intelligence, everyday I wake up thinking I’m stupider than yesterday I don’t want to repeat doing the same thing over and over again until it sticks, because I lack focus too.

I think this trend is going to continue. As you get older, you get dumber. I'm the same way. Enjoy!

Is there a way to counteract this? I don't know. I would like to think that staying intellectually curious about a variety of things and doing a lot of thinking will keep your mind sharp. For example, even though I don't play competitive chess anymore, I will occasionally break out one of my chess books and spend about an hour going over things. It forces me to think and keeps my mind working. There is also a school of thought that diet is of great importance in slowing down the degeneration of your brain. You can research this on your own, but it seems that the big advice is to keep the correct ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 fats in your brain and to get plenty of antioxidants, to minimize damage to your neurons over time. Now, whether any of this makes you smarter is, of course, debatable, but it at least makes you smarter than you would have been had you just sat in front of the television and zoned out.

So, get plenty of antioxidants and "exercise" your mind regularly with a variety of modes of thinking. Good luck.

[joft]

ok, my outlook on college has finally shifted. a few months ago I would have said that I just want to study the thing that i find most interesting, or that would be the most useful for me to use in applying to learning other things for the rest of my life, and that career prospects were completely unimportant. now I've come to terms with all my previous misgivings about money, career/professionalism, etc, and my only criteria for a major now is the career aspect. but that doesn't really change all that much, because there are still so many factors involved.

it can't be tedious. it should have easy hours. I need a lot of freedom. deadlines and quotas will make me do the least amount of work I can to meet them and procrastinate until it's almost too late then stress out, etc. I doubt any of those are realistic, but at least it'd be nice if it involved "big thinking", like city planning or international relations/economics, etc.

I think whatever I do i'll also minor or go for a certification or something in Mandarin, because of the two monster economies of the future that's the one that doesn't have widespread English proficiency already. other than that I've been thinking about a major in economics, maybe socioeconomics, I dunno. or linguistics, or linguistic anthropology. maybe another minor in area studies (focusing on China), or maybe major/minor in some combo of that and mandarin.

as for a career, think tanks (http://workabroad.monster.com/articles/think/) sound awesome.

As you can see, think tanks are also excellent places for individuals who do not wish to pursue a career in academia but like to be surrounded by ideas.

what do you think?

[Hustler]

joft,

I think your plan to learn Mandarin is a fine one indeed. It is a skill which will serve you well regardless of what you ultimately decide to do with yourself. It's a good idea that you have some notions of what you want to do upon the completion of your academic studies, but I don't think anything needs to be set in stone right now. Sure, working at a think tank would probably be pretty cool for an academically-oriented INTP who doesn't want to have a job in academia. It seems to fit your criteria well enough.

All that said, you owe it to yourself to study something in school which you will really enjoy, and not fall into the trap of studying something you don't like just because it seems practical. As such, I still stand by my previous recommendation for your major. As it happens, someone who is up on areas like philosophy of mind or philosophy of science is probably well-suited for think tank employment. Though that does depend on the nature of the think tank in question, of course.

[MacGuffin]

How do I pay all my bills on time? Paying online helps, but still the odd one slips thorough now and again. It annoys me when I think I have more money than I do because I have to double up on some damn bill.

[Hustler]

How do I pay all my bills on time? Paying online helps, but still the odd one slips thorough now and again. It annoys me when I think I have more money than I do because I have to double up on some damn bill.

You could set up an autopay system whereby your bills are automatically deducted from your account each month. This, however, takes mustering up some J to get all that set up. My car insurance is handled that way but, for the rest of my bills, I have another approach. I don't pay any of my bills (cable, power, phone, etc.) until one of them sends me a notice that my service is about to be terminated. Generally speaking, this is Verizon, because they are cool about sending out reminder text messages when your bill is overdue. As soon as I am given this reminder, I then pay all of my bills at once in the next day or two. You see, they all have roughly the same policy when it comes to termination of service and payment due cycles. After that, I don't have to think about bills again until one of the companies threatens to terminate my service again.

[MacGuffin]

Interesting, but I don't think the J wife will go for that. Plus the damn fees!

[Hustler]

Interesting, but I don't think the J wife will go for that. Plus the damn fees!

What the fuck? You have a J wife and you're asking for advice on paying bills on time? This is precisely the kind of thing J wives are for. You need to get with the program.

[MacGuffin]

What the fuck? You have a J wife and you're asking for advice on paying bills on time? This is precisely the kind of thing J wives are for. You need to get with the program.
That's what I tell her...

[tinribz]

Dear Doctor H,

I was recently subjected to totally uncalled for insulting rudeness by a stranger. It was one of those moments you do not realise what the have said until it is too late to respond, what with the unexpectedness and the traveling in opposite directions.

He did not know me but I actually recognise him from many years ago and know his name and where he lives. He always had a reputation for being well crazy, he is fairly intelligent and ‘posh’ but prone to violence and has a raging temper. I doubt I am his equal in mortal combat at least a fair fight given his ‘crazy’ nature and more extensive experience as a direct result of it.

There is a fair chance he is on medication, but equally that he is a pompass condescending arrogant tw*t like he always was and just needs a good kicking, or some sort of lesson.

I am consumed with a desire for revenge and to teach this guy a lesson.

I’ve been considering my options and already ruled out a cross bow bolt to the chest from a suitable vantage point early one morning as an over reaction, as would be calling in some old favours or paying some more professional one to call on him. Confrontational violence using an advantage like a baseball bat would work but in my calmer moments I realise I don’t want to go to prison.

Other thoughts I have had include super glue in his front door / car locks. Paint thinner over the car. Painting some either meaningful or derogatory message outside his house. Starting an ‘order taxi / pizza delivery campaign. But these are a bit wussey and petty.

I could always just try knocking on his door and asking for an apology. Or sending him a stern letter. But I think that would (rightly) make me look weak in his eyes, an invitation to insult me further (or beat me).

I am fed up with being a doormat, what is the INTP thing to do - phishing?

Please help

Tin.

[Hustler]

That's what I tell her...

I have some advice for you: you have to learn to ask for advice about the correct thing. You asked me for advice on paying bills on time but, what you should have asked me about, was advice on maintaining "hand" in your relationship with your J wife, so that you can get her to pay the bills on time. Paying bills on time is a far more difficult task for an INTP than getting a J wife to pay the bills on time is.

[MacGuffin]

I have some advice for you: you have to learn to ask for advice about the correct thing. You asked me for advice on paying bills on time but, what you should have asked me about, was advice on maintaining "hand" in your relationship with your J wife, so that you can get her to pay the bills on time. Paying bills on time is a far more difficult task for an INTP than getting a J wife to pay the bills on time is.
Okay, out of curiosity, how does one maintain a "hand" on a significant other in a relationship, regardless of MBTI type?

[Hustler]

Okay, out of curiosity, how does one maintain a "hand" on a significant other in a relationship, regardless of MBTI type?

I'm not sure if there is a universal method; I think you have to tailor it to the relationship in question. In your case, regarding punctual bill payment, perhaps you can make use of having the moral highground when it comes to to what's best for the relationship.

[Hustler]

tinribz,

Why not key his car? I realize you object to it as being petty, but maybe you will enjoy it. You could try that and, if you don't like it, you could do something else later. This is, of course, if you'd rather go ahead and do something along those lines instead of confronting your own demons of insecurity and diminished self-worth.

[tinribz]

tinribz,

Why not key his car? I realize you object to it as being petty, but maybe you will enjoy it. You could try that and, if you don't like it, you could do something else later. This is, of course, if you'd rather go ahead and do something along those lines instead of confronting your own demons of insecurity and diminished self-worth.

Hmm, maybe I do need to get out more, think a few days away from the PC will help. I've planned something adventerous and challenging for tomorrow.

It's sort of ironic that if I don't do something I will probably eventually end up like him with a massive chip on my shoulder ranting at strangers.

[Hustler]

Hmm, maybe I do need to get out more, think a few days away from the PC will help. I've planned something adventerous and challenging for tomorrow.

It's sort of ironic that if I don't do something I will probably eventually end up like him with a massive chip on my shoulder ranting at strangers.

Well, you have my advice on the matter. Let me know what you ultimately decide and how that goes.

[Dr. Haight]

How many voices will I hear in my head to be deemed schizophrenic; including my good Doctor Haight and my bad Doctor Haight.

[Hustler]

How many voices will I hear in my head to be deemed schizophrenic; including my good Doctor Haight and my bad Doctor Haight.

I don't think there's a definite number for this. I maintain that, while an increased likelihood of schizophrenia probably correlates to an increased number of voices heard in the head, the relationship is far from absolute.

[Dr. Haight]

I don't think there's a definite number for this. I maintain that, while an increased likelihood of schizophrenia probably correlates to an increased number of voices heard in the head, the relationship is far from absolute.

Wow, nice answer. However, it feels a little like a "Crossing Over" episode with Edwards using vague verbiage in order to cover a broad range of scenario's.

Anyhow, let me be more specific (since I am waiting for food to arrive, am very bored, and can't get into this, "Freakonomics" book):

Voice #1) Good Doctor Haight--moral, reasonable, empathetic,etc.
Voice #2) Bad Doctor Haight--amoral, sarcastic, rude, revengeful,etc.
Voice #3) Doctor Haight--this is the one that way's the pro's and con's of the above voices, and simply makes choices based on reason and logic.
Voice #4) The Thought--this is the one that just drop ideas and concepts on me with little else added and without notification.
Voice #5) The Historian--this one just runs through my mind like some history buff with too much times on his hands, and will drop something I have read in the past into my brain at the most appropriate time; my favorite voice, by far.

Well, there it is...can you help me?

[Claverhouse]

Voice #1) Good Doctor Haight--moral, reasonable, empathetic,etc.
Superego.


Voice #2) Bad Doctor Haight--amoral, sarcastic, rude, revengeful,etc.
Id.


Voice #3) Doctor Haight--this is the one that way's the pro's and con's of the above voices, and simply makes choices based on reason and logic.
Ego.


Voice #4) The Thought--this is the one that just drop ideas and concepts on me with little else added and without notification.
Unconscious.


Voice #5) The Historian--this one just runs through my mind like some history buff with too much times on his hands, and will drop something I have read in the past into my brain at the most appropriate time; my favorite voice, by far.
Soul.

That's if you believe that stuff... and I guess most of us have them working in harmony a trifle less disconnectedly.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Dr. Haight]

--Claverhouse,
Are you trying to convince me that I am normal? And if you are serious, then I really do appreciate my soul above all other attributes: so factual, so logical, so timely, and oh so helpful.

[Hustler]

--Claverhouse,
Are you trying to convince me that I am normal? And if you are serious, then I really do appreciate my soul above all other attributes: so factual, so logical, so timely, and oh so helpful.

Yeah, you sound pretty normal. If you really think that you're schizophrenic, you can always go visit an actual psychiatrist and get the straight dope.

[Claverhouse]

As normal as anyone else ! ( if that's sufficiently ambiguous )

Not that I'm struck on freudianism, yet this is a psychotherapy thread...

But you really should mention the other voices; you know: the imps and goblins. They can get you into a hell of a state if you don't keep them down, just so.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Dr. Haight]

Yeah, you sound pretty normal. If you really think that you're schizophrenic, you can always go visit an actual psychiatrist and get the straight dope.

One of my close friends (a circle of three), who, incidentaly, notified me that I was an INTP some years ago--after some very fun tests-- diagnosed me as just having a highly overactive imagination and a need to constantly over think everything that finds my curiosity; although, I do take Paxel based on his recommendation, and signature.

Anyways...I now have my Freud books out, so we will see if there is any validity to Claverhouse's comment's.

[Eileen]

I know that I should hate you, Hustler, and I'm having trouble with that. What should I do?

[last_caress]

How many voices will I hear in my head to be deemed schizophrenic; including my good Doctor Haight and my bad Doctor Haight.
.

David: Hello. I'm Dr. Sammy, Beverly Hills psycho-actualist and author of the book, "Old Lady, Biker, Gay Guy, Japanese Man: The Four Voices Within." You see, within each of us are four distinct drives, or "voices." [As David singles out each one, they "unfreeze" for the moment then refreeze.] Our old lady is our short-sided, impatient, doddering, old fool--prone to violence and rash decision making. [John waves.] Our biker backs her up every step of the way. [Jay shifts feet.] Our gay guy takes it personal and makes it personal [Jack slaps his lap and then mimes "so."] with velveteen touch of a dandy fop. And lastly, our Japanese man [Paul bows] utters non-sensical advice which only our biker can translate [David starts to rub his chest] and transcend. My program is designed to wrangle these four. I'll be at the Holiday Center Spot in Nashua, New Hampshire in Room 39 all weekend.

[Switch camera angle to back of audiences' heads. Bob's in the audience; he gets up.]

Bob: Hello, I'm Dr. Randy Terry, author of "The Five Voices." Inside each of us is an old lady, a gay guy, a biker, and a Japanese man--all under the sway of the fifth, dominant voice, the false doctor voice. This voice will be at the Holiday Inn Spot in Nashua, New Hampshire in Room 39 all weekend. Do not visit him.

[Hustler]

I know that I should hate you, Hustler, and I'm having trouble with that. What should I do?

The next time we're in a thread together and a discussion comes up regarding something about which you have strong feelings, get into an argument with me and intersperse a few personal attacks among your posts. I will respond in kind and say a lot of condescending and insulting stuff which will irritate you. All this amidst incessant rebuttal of your points and stopless pressing of the attack against your position (which I will label foolish or trite or NF or something else like that). You can use that as a springboard to some full-on hate. Consider also my overwhelming arrogance and sordid reasons for having you on my WWYD list.

[sbw]

what country should I move to?

Scott

[Hustler]

what country should I move to?

What are some of the things you are looking for in a country? What are some of the things you definitely want to avoid.

[sbw]

cold weather, political turbulence, cold weather, commies, cold weather, and...madrigal.

Scott

[Hustler]

cold weather, political turbulence, cold weather, commies, cold weather, and...madrigal.

Madrigal lives in a temperate area. Climatologically speaking.

[sbw]

yea--big country, as well.

Scott

[Rooster]

I'll give this a shot. I worked with a very powerful ESFJ who was so intelligent and talented she could pose as an INTP. However, her character was easily the most vile I have ever come across. She was coercive and manipulative to the extreme. When I fought back against her she started a psychological attack that has pretty much fucked me up. It isn't what she called me that has torn me to pieces but what she has made me realize through insinuation and the whole experience of being around her. I feel like I am a weak and useless individual. No amount of rationalizing or existentializing makes me feel any less pathetic. In fact it usually makes me feel worse. She has driven me to question everything in my life and past and the frustation I feel is reaching a breaking point. I am literally going insane and at this rate I don't know what I will do. With a normal person I could simply choose to not let it get to me but she has made me into my own opponent. Is there a name for this emotional self destruction?

[Hustler]

I'll give this a shot. I worked with a very powerful ESFJ who was so intelligent and talented she could pose as an INTP. However, her character was easily the most vile I have ever come across. She was coercive and manipulative to the extreme. When I fought back against her she started a psychological attack that has pretty much fucked me up. It isn't what she called me that has torn me to pieces but what she has made me realize through insinuation and the whole experience of being around her. I feel like I am a weak and useless individual. No amount of rationalizing or existentializing makes me feel any less pathetic. In fact it usually makes me feel worse. She has driven me to question everything in my life and past and the frustation I feel is reaching a breaking point. I am literally going insane and at this rate I don't know what I will do. With a normal person I could simply choose to not let it get to me but she has made me into my own opponent. Is there a name for this emotional self destruction?

rivercrow, if you want me to help you overcome this problem of diminishing sanity, you are going to have to be less vague about your psychological state, the nature of your relationship with the ESFJ in question and specifics of the psychological warfare she waged against you. I can only take wild guesses right now, and I don't think that would be very helpful to you.

[Rooster]

rivercrow, if you want me to help you overcome this problem of diminishing sanity, you are going to have to be less vague about your psychological state, the nature of your relationship with the ESFJ in question and specifics of the psychological warfare she waged against you. I can only take wild guesses right now, and I don't think that would be very helpful to you.

Rivercrow? The ESFJ was a professor at the college I attended. She was the adviser to the school newspaper I was the Editor of. She attacked me in a very subtle way by getting me to mistrust my colleagues and getting my colleagues to mistrust me. She was also pseudo accommodating and a liar. She constantly called into question my abilities as a student and a leader. Soon she just insinuated that I was a worthless person. I initially respected this woman but now I can only say that I pity her for her shortcomings and resentments.

She initiated a collapse of how I see myself. She made me realize how little I have accomplished and how little I have to offer to the world. In essence, she set me down a path where I question if I should even exist. I have already done far more than anyone in my family before me and it now seems completely useless. I can't even get a descent paying job. What is the point? I have no purpose to live for. I am nothing more than a coward and a fool. Welcome to my world Hustler.

[Hustler]

Rivercrow?

Birds, man. Birds. Might as well be Macaw.


The ESFJ was a professor at the college I attended. She was the adviser to the school newspaper I was the Editor of. She attacked me in a very subtle way by getting me to mistrust my colleagues and getting my colleagues to mistrust me. She was also pseudo accommodating and a liar. She constantly called into question my abilities as a student and a leader. Soon she just insinuated that I was a worthless person. I initially respected this woman but now I can only say that I pity her for her shortcomings and resentments.

She initiated a collapse of how I see myself. She made me realize how little I have accomplished and how little I have to offer to the world. In essence, she set me down a path where I question if I should even exist. I have already done far more than anyone in my family before me and it now seems completely useless. I can't even get a descent paying job. What is the point? I have no purpose to live for. I am nothing more than a coward and a fool. Welcome to my world Hustler.

Now that you have grown to see this woman for what she is and pity her, what is stopping you from disregarding all of the things she did and said to cause you to suffer from a diminished sense of self worth? You say that she made you "realize" how little you have to offer the world and how little you have accomplished, but why should you pay these things any mind, now that you're aware of her true nature.

[Rooster]

Now that you have grown to see this woman for what she is and pity her, what is stopping you from disregarding all of the things she did and said to cause you to suffer from a diminished sense of self worth? You say that she made you "realize" how little you have to offer the world and how little you have accomplished, but why should you pay these things any mind, now that you're aware of her true nature.

As I said before. If she had been a normal person then I could have simply chosen not to care. It's not what she said that was so damaging, it was how she said it. All the shame, guilt, and doubt I have stored up over a lifetime has been released all at once and to say that its depressing is an understatement. The biggest question that has arisen from all this is one of purpose. How does one go about finding their purpose in life?

[Hustler]

As I said before. If she had been a normal person then I could have simply chosen not to care. It's not what she said that was so damaging, it was how she said it. All the shame, guilt, and doubt I have stored up over a lifetime has been released all at once and to say that its depressing is an understatement. The biggest question that has arisen from all this is one of purpose. How does one go about finding their purpose in life?

There are a few different approaches to take when seeking your purpose in life. My personal favorite is to create your purpose, to define it for yourself. It is not so much a process of discovery as it is of staking a claim. Once you have that, you have something to achieve or an inspiration to guide your learning. Something to engage your mind. In doing this, you also set your own metrics by which to judge your self worth. If you are plagued by a lack of confidence or a sense of diminished self worth, it is probably because you are measuring yourself according to some scale someone else has set. It sounds like that ESFJ may have influenced you in this regard. She imposed her a set of metrics on you which are not a natural fit. This leads you to measure yourself according to standards which you do not value and, as such, you cannot find the motivation to "improve" yourself along those lines. This in turn leads to a perpetual sense of failure. In order to break out of this cycle, you must redefine the standards by which you want to live and judge yourself in your own terms, and use that to create your own purpose.

That is but one step that you must take. The other, possibly more difficult step, is learning to understand your feelings of guilt. Why do you suppose they are there? What do you suppose you should do to curtail them?

[Moyer]

I have to tell you Hustler, I just read through this whole thread and it's amazing. You've given some great advice here and that's good for me because I can relate to some of the previous posters.

So here's my situation:

I'm 22. I played poker online full time for a little over a year. Then I basically got burned out. It became too repetitive. I lost interest, and I no longer needed the money. That was 6 months ago. I think now that I maybe was also at the point where I had the basics down but I would've really needed to study tediously to improve my game to the next level.

I've played the occasional deposit bonus since then, but that's about it. My expenses are low, so I've just been living off of the bankroll I built up. I've whittled it down to around $7K, which is what I had when I decided to quit my crappy job and "go pro" in the first place.

I became pretty much addicted to Halo 2 (that problem came to an abrupt end recently though when my roommate got rid of his Xbox). I also go back and forth researching random topics of interest on the internet. I've learned a lot about exercise, nutrition, investing, aquaria, and a few other odd topics, but I haven't actually accomplished much. I've read a variety of "self help" books, some of which contain sound advice, but I have yet to actually implement any of it in my life. I'm great at making lists of things I should accomplish, and designing systems on paper of how to improve my life (or at least make my life look better to others) but I never actually end up doing any of it.

I'm just lost right now. My funds are dwindling so I need to figure something out soon.

I've become depressed, which doesn't help matters at all. I think the way certain people react to me not having a "real job" has hurt my self esteem. I thought I didn't care about the opinions of others, but apparently I was wrong. I do care. I think my family and friends all thought I was "lost" long before I actually was, which may have been part of the cause.

I'm considering taking a manual labor job like you suggested to messup, but I fear the ideal fun outdoor job may be hard to find. Plus, the idea of working 40hrs or more a week for less than 10 bucks an hour really sucks compared to the luxeries of online poker.

I really appreciate any help you can give me.

[sbw]

I've become depressed, which doesn't help matters at all. I think the way certain people react to me not having a "real job" has hurt my self esteem. I thought I didn't care about the opinions of others, but apparently I was wrong. I do care. I think my family and friends all thought I was "lost" long before I actually was, which may have been part of the cause.

how do these people react--what do they do/say? I'm curious because I am recently retired, and most of my friends have been supportive (although my mom worries about my longterm liquidity).

I'm also curious about your own reactions to these people, as I've not really been affected by the sneering 'what are you gonna do all day you lazy fuck'-type of responses--my reaction is that these people are either jealous or their thinking is bound to a set of traditional standards which do not confine me, and which prevent them from thinking any other way. in short, they don't matter to me.

Scott

[Hustler]

I'm 22. I played poker online full time for a little over a year. Then I basically got burned out. It became too repetitive. I lost interest, and I no longer needed the money. That was 6 months ago. I think now that I maybe was also at the point where I had the basics down but I would've really needed to study tediously to improve my game to the next level.

This is something of a conumdrum, Moyer. On the one hand, if you don't put in the effort to improve your game and continually push yourself to learn new things and play at a higher level, then the game does become tedious and boring. You learn the basics and systematically apply them at a level at which they net a positive expectation, and then you just stick it in cruise control and play as long as you care to continue. On the other hand, it is hard to get motivated to put in the considerable effort it takes to continue to improve when you can just cruise along on easy-street making money in the small games. The motivation has to come from your need to engage your mind, and that is not always enough to motivate an INTP. The solution is not easy. I could suggest something like taking another shot with an eye to keep pushing yourself to improve, which seems like a logical idea, but it may hard for you to make the effort and sustain the motivation to do that.


I became pretty much addicted to Halo 2 (that problem came to an abrupt end recently though when my roommate got rid of his Xbox). I also go back and forth researching random topics of interest on the internet. I've learned a lot about exercise, nutrition, investing, aquaria, and a few other odd topics, but I haven't actually accomplished much. I've read a variety of "self help" books, some of which contain sound advice, but I have yet to actually implement any of it in my life. I'm great at making lists of things I should accomplish, and designing systems on paper of how to improve my life (or at least make my life look better to others) but I never actually end up doing any of it.

I'm just lost right now. My funds are dwindling so I need to figure something out soon.

I've become depressed, which doesn't help matters at all. I think the way certain people react to me not having a "real job" has hurt my self esteem. I thought I didn't care about the opinions of others, but apparently I was wrong. I do care. I think my family and friends all thought I was "lost" long before I actually was, which may have been part of the cause.

I'm considering taking a manual labor job like you suggested to messup, but I fear the ideal fun outdoor job may be hard to find. Plus, the idea of working 40hrs or more a week for less than 10 bucks an hour really sucks compared to the luxeries of online poker.

I really appreciate any help you can give me.

You're not alone in being easily distracted. Why, just the other day, I logged a few hours researching the GDPs of various third-world countries. There's really no purpose for doing these things except that it allows me to fuck off and not do anything productive and, at the same time, satisfies my inherent INTP fascination with/need to learn something, anything, even if its trivial and useless. So, even though you engage in such frivolity as well, I don't think you should let it contribute to you feeling lost. This is just how some of us are.

As for your real problems, namely the depression and image consciousness, the best advice I can give you is to snap out of the cycle you're in. It's okay to fuck off and be unproductive a lot, but you can't let that define your life. Reading books is great and all, but you have to actually take action at some point, and the sooner the better. When things aren't going well, change something. Anything, but don't just continue to stagnate.

Going back to poker, is there anything about it other than the boredom which comes from not pushing yourself to higher levels that makes it untenable for you? It sounds, from the sum of your post, that perhaps you have had the confidence it takes to elevate your game taken out of you, probably on account of the negative input about your lifestyle from your family and friends. I think dispelling these negative ideas and taking another crack at poker, this time with an eye toward moving up to a level with serious earn power (where the idea of clearing bonuses sounds totally paltry) is worth considering, certainly moreso (for you) than the idea of manual labor. Yes, manual labor is sometimes good to break out of a very bad cycle, but I don't think you are to that level yet, and you have more profitable options at your disposal. If, after another crack at poker, you still aren't finding any personal or major financial satisfaction (a former colleague of mine told me how his family stopped questioning his lifestyle when he showed up to visit them in his new Lexus), then you could look toward something like manual labor to give you new perspective on everything.

[Moyer]

how do these people react--what do they do/say? I'm curious because I am recently retired, and most of my friends have been supportive (although my mom worries about my longterm liquidity).

You can probably guess. My friends give me shit about being lazy. They're usually just giving me a hard time, but I can tell there is a bit of truthfulness in it. They like to call me "workless" instead of worthless, but it still sounds like an insult. I'm sure part of it stems from their jealousy. They always give me shit about sleeping in late, like it's my fault they have to get up early.

My parents don't hassle me about it anymore. They've accepted that I'm at least reasonably financially stable, but that doesn't mean they like it. I doubt my mom is proud when people ask her what I do for a living. They also believe that this is just a short term thing that I will grow out of soon.

People in general don't have much respect for what I do. They think I've just been lucky and it will wear off soon. They think that if I was really making a living I would be driving a Benz and living in a mansion. They have very little understanding of what I actually do for a living and I have little patience to explain it to most of them because when I've tried in the past, it hasn't gotten through. They say things like "Don't you get bored?" I probably haven't really been bored since I was 10.

Many times, when I run into an old aquaintence, the first question is "what do you do now?" Occasionally, trying to impress someone, I'll say I'm a "professional" poker player. Then I have to listen to questions about the World Series of Poker, the World Poker Tour on TV, other big tournaments, etc. All of which have nothing to do with me. Many times I just say "not much" or "I don't have a job right now" to change the subject or end the conversation as soon as possible. This way, I don't have to see the negative reaction on their face when they hear I play poker. It's just a lot easier to fit in if you have a real job. I've contemplated getting a part time job so I can have a different answer, but most part time positions aren't exactly flattering either.


I'm also curious about your own reactions to these people, as I've not really been affected by the sneering 'what are you gonna do all day you lazy fuck'-type of responses--my reaction is that these people are either jealous or their thinking is bound to a set of traditional standards which do not confine me, and which prevent them from thinking any other way. in short, they don't matter to me.

Scott

It sounds like you feel the same way I felt in the beginning. Even though I think their opinions are illogical, after a while I think they've taken a tole on me. The bottom line is these are people I care about, and on some level I need their respect and approval.

[Moyer]

Going back to poker, is there anything about it other than the boredom which comes from not pushing yourself to higher levels that makes it untenable for you? It sounds, from the sum of your post, that perhaps you have had the confidence it takes to elevate your game taken out of you, probably on account of the negative input about your lifestyle from your family and friends. I think dispelling these negative ideas and taking another crack at poker, this time with an eye toward moving up to a level with serious earn power (where the idea of clearing bonuses sounds totally paltry) is worth considering, certainly moreso (for you) than the idea of manual labor. Yes, manual labor is sometimes good to break out of a very bad cycle, but I don't think you are to that level yet, and you have more profitable options at your disposal. If, after another crack at poker, you still aren't finding any personal or major financial satisfaction (a former colleague of mine told me how his family stopped questioning his lifestyle when he showed up to visit them in his new Lexus), then you could look toward something like manual labor to give you new perspective on everything.

I love this post. I think you're right in that it was the negative input that really stopped me. After I quit and my confidence dropped, I was afraid to put my abilities to the test again. Fear of failure?

How would you go about dispelling these negative ideas?

After reading personal finance books on investing and living far within your means, the Lexus sounds really stupid, but I have to admit it could really fix some of the negative input...

[kuranes]

Tell them that you're a consultant on intellectual property and then pick categories that you know they are clueless in when they ask for specifics. Start asking them about their promotion opportunities at their current place of employment, unless you think they actually wish to expound on the subject in vast detail.

[Moyer]

Tell them that you're a consultant on intellectual property and then pick categories that you know they are clueless in when they ask for specifics. Start asking them about their promotion opportunities at their current place of employment, unless you think they actually wish to expound on the subject in vast detail.

IMO, this would only work if I'll never see them again. They'll know it's BS as soon as they find out I don't have a degree of any kind (if they don't know already). Besides that, I think being completely deceitful every time I run into someone could take a worse toll on my psyche than what is already happening.

[sbw]

Tell them that you're a consultant on intellectual property and then pick categories that you know they are clueless in when they ask for specifics. Start asking them about their promotion opportunities at their current place of employment, unless you think they actually wish to expound on the subject in vast detail.

hahahahahaha this is awesome.

moyer--they're not like you, and that won't change. many people around here seem to have an egalitarian hangup about viewing most-everyone as inferiors, and thinking/acting accordingly. such a shift in perception, however, might help you with your paradoxical peer-inadequacy issues. (they, after all, still have to fucking work, right?) something tells me hustler might have something to add to that.

Scott

[sbw]

IMO, this would only work if I'll never see them again. They'll know it's BS as soon as they find out I don't have a degree of any kind (if they don't know already). Besides that, I think being completely deceitful every time I run into someone could take a worse toll on my psyche than what is already happening.

its still funny.

Scott

[Hustler]

I love this post. I think you're right in that it was the negative input that really stopped me. How would you go about dispelling these negative ideas?

After reading personal finance books on investing and living far within your means, the Lexus sounds really stupid, but I have to admit it could really fix some of the negative input...

Your confidence has to come from within. As an introvert, that's really for the best. It has to come from your own assessment of your life and your abilities, not from outside. It is great to have friends and family who are concerned about you, and they can often keep you from getting too far adrift, but when it comes to your jobless lifestyle, they really lack the perspective to fully understand it. As such, they can only understand it from the perspective of results. That's how my associate's Lexus worked in his favor. Of course, the Lexus is just a stand-in in this discussion for something which represents success in a way which people can understand. If you think the idea of buying a luxury automobile is foolish (and, viewed in a certain light, it is), you can always do something more financially sound like get invested into some mutual funds or a house or whatever.

The best way, then, to dispel the negative input you've received from external sources is to fall back on your rational mind to remind you that only you are equipped to judge yourself. Impress yourself first, and impressing others will naturally follow. Examing poker again, consider these words: Texas Hold'em is a game of immense richness, if it is boring to you, I maintain it is simply because you do not understand it deeply enough to fully appreciate its many nuances. Perhaps that seems insulting, because I don't really know you, but all it is meant to do is insinuate that the problem lies with you. When you have no job, no bosses and no defined role to play, the responsibility of evaluating yourself and giving yourself promotions falls to you. The responsibility of defining your role in life and creating meaning for your existence falls to you. Do you want to view yourself as a depressed and lost nobody, or do you want to be something else? Because what you think about yourself is what others will start to think about you, all in due time.

Lastly, just because you play poker doesn't mean you're a poker player. It just means you play poker to earn money to fund your existence and lifestyle here on earth. It is an all-too-common trap in modern America to define ourselves by what we do. Don't fall into it.

[Moyer]

its still funny.

Scott

Yeah, I didn't mean to give the impression that it wasn't. I've seen very long threads on poker forums about things like this that you can say if you need to bullshit someone.

[sbw]

Yeah, I didn't mean to give the impression that it wasn't. I've seen very long threads on poker forums about things like this that you can say if you need to bullshit someone.

like the vegas commercial--'you told my friend you're a lawyer?!?'

'umm, yea--in the offseason.'

Scott

[Moyer]

Impress yourself first, and impressing others will naturally follow.

This is a great quote for me. I'm going to write it down and read it frequently.


Examing poker again, consider these words: Texas Hold'em is a game of immense richness, if it is boring to you, I maintain it is simply because you do not understand it deeply enough to fully appreciate its many nuances. Perhaps that seems insulting, because I don't really know you, but all it is meant to do is insinuate that the problem lies with you.

FWIW, I'm a limit player. The highest I played on any regular basis was 5/10 (practicing strict table selection at this level), sometimes taking shots at higher games if they looked very juicy. I was in the process of learning shorthanded when I quit playing regularly. You may be right that I didn't understand it deeply enough. Certain skills that I hadn't achieved (real hand reading) seemed tedious. The only way I knew to improve more was to keep playing, and keep reading and posting on poker forums, both of which I was tired of.

[Moyer]

like the vegas commercial--'you told my friend you're a lawyer?!?'

'umm, yea--in the offseason.'

Scott

exactly :cheers:

[Hustler]

FWIW, I'm a limit player. The highest I played on any regular basis was 5/10 (practicing strict table selection at this level), sometimes taking shots at higher games if they looked very juicy. I was in the process of learning shorthanded when I quit playing regularly. You may be right that I didn't understand it deeply enough. Certain skills that I hadn't achieved (real hand reading) seemed tedious. The only way I knew to improve more was to keep playing, and keep reading and posting on poker forums, both of which I was tired of.

I play no-limit, myself, so any specific advice I could give you would be skewed. From my own experience, and from those whose games I respect, I can tell you that as you keep thinking more about the game and pushing yourself to elevate your game, you will have occasional ephiphanies which are themselves as rewarding as the money you have been earning along the way.

[meshou]

I don't like people. When I do not prefer to go unnoticed (as in, no, I do not talk at all except when talked to), I am usually genuinely pleasant. Weirdly, very very outgoing EXXP types latch onto me and decide they adore me the more withdrawn I am.

However, it seems like the times I feel slightly more social and pleasant, I invariably end up with someone who freaks out because I dared be nice to someone, when that's their job/ I am projecting niceness on them they didn't intend (as in, telling some girl who is upset that I'm sure they didn't mean it that way)/ how dare I offer my notes when they were absent.

Why do I attract these two types? They don't overlap, but it's odd that I am a friendly magnet when misantrhopic, and a crazy bitch magnet when friendly. The hell?

[Rooster]

Why do I attract these two types? They don't overlap, but it's odd that I am a friendly magnet when misantrhopic, and a crazy bitch magnet when friendly. The hell?

Whoa. That's true with me too. I always thought that it was because I was awkard when I was friendly and seemingly confident when I was standoffish.

[Hustler]

Why do I attract these two types? They don't overlap, but it's odd that I am a friendly magnet when misantrhopic, and a crazy bitch magnet when friendly. The hell?

Without any details to tip me off to specific behavioral patterns on the parts of the individuals involved, I can only attempt a very general, very simplistic analysis of this phenomenon. Pure crackpot theory.

Opposites attract? No, not really. I think what is going is two separate phenomena. On the one hand, people love "solving" a mystery and, on the other hand, people will try to get away with as much as possible. So, when you are withdrawn and misanthropic, some people want to know why. They are curious and interested in you, so they seem friendly. Perhaps they want to help you or perhaps they just want to understand what's going on, but it is their interest in you (for whatever reason) which is gratifying to you and makes them seem like nice, well-adjusted people. At the other extreme, when you act nice to people, you will occasionally attract the attention of a person who sees you as a willing sounding board for their complaints or, worse, a juicy target for their desire to abuse someone's trust and/or do a little emotional damage. They see you as a pincushion or doormat of sorts, and seek to get the maximum possible usage out of you. Whatever the case, they will end up seeming bitchy and mean because they are using you for their own self-interested purposes and being quite overt about it. They are clearly approaching you from the perspective of what you can do to be of service to them. That gets unpleasant very quickly for anyone with some self-respect.

[Pooja]

Whoa. That's true with me too. I always thought that it was because I was awkard when I was friendly and seemingly confident when I was standoffish.

I find this to be the case as well-- especially when it comes to guys/dating. When I was single, and "on the market" so to speak, I was friendlier with guys, nicer, and payed more attention to my appearance. But still, I just accumalated a lot of guy friends, and still, no boyfriend.
Now that I have a bf, I'm more standoffish towards guys who flirt with me. And still, I've been asked out several times. This blows my mind, b/c during all of those times, I was bitchy, wearing not-sexy clothes, and in one case, had tomato sauce on my nose. wtf!

[C.J.Woolf]

Tell them that you're a consultant on intellectual property and then pick categories that you know they are clueless in when they ask for specifics. Start asking them about their promotion opportunities at their current place of employment, unless you think they actually wish to expound on the subject in vast detail.
Try "Tutor in applied probability."


I find this to be the case as well-- especially when it comes to guys/dating. When I was single, and "on the market" so to speak, I was friendlier with guys, nicer, and payed more attention to my appearance. But still, I just accumalated a lot of guy friends, and still, no boyfriend.
Now that I have a bf, I'm more standoffish towards guys who flirt with me. And still, I've been asked out several times. This blows my mind, b/c during all of those times, I was bitchy, wearing not-sexy clothes, and in one case, had tomato sauce on my nose. wtf!
Them that has, gets. It's the first rule of economics, but it seems to apply to relationships too.

[Hustler]

...and in one case, had tomato sauce on my nose. wtf!

This implies you like to cook, which is a big plus for some guys who are looking for a girlfriend.

[meshou]

The first bit makes sense. The bitches have come in a couple classes.

One, I was working in a group, and this one girl was STARING at a guy in a fairly rude way. He says repeatedly he's creeped out, and she, visibly not getting it and not joking, keeps staring. I say, because this is now cutting into working on the project "I'm sure she doesn't mean to stare, let's just get back to doing (really important thing for the project)."

She blows up at me, and basically screams for the next couple of minutes while I sit there going :wtf:. Apparently, I was butting into something personal or something, even though they didn't know each other outside of class. The teacher drags both her and I out, and then that teacher personally told me that she was a bit controlling when it came to groups and not to worry about it.

The second one was in psych class. Best I can figure, I ask about five questions a session, making me about the only one who does.

There was another girl who was always there, always got good grades etc, and was abscent. I saw her next week before class, having never before said a thing to her before said "Hey, I saw you weren't here Tuesday. If you want, you can have my notes."

She told me she wasn't stupid, and that SOME other people ALSO studied, and she'd ask the PROFESSOR for notes.

"OK. I'm sure she'll have time after the quiz."

"That's NEXT week."

"She moved it up."

She got REALLY mad then, but shut up and opened her book.

She got a B and I ended up with the highest grade in the class.

Not the only times, but good examples. Happens every once in a while. I do wonder if I'm giving off bad vibes, or if I have trouble reading people who think I do give off bad vibes or what.

[peter pan]

all your base belong to us

[peter pan]

START ASKING IF THEY HAVE MOVED UP THE PROMOTION LADDER AS FAST AS THEY DESERVED

[Architectonic]

How do I cure my internet forum addiction?

[sbw]

How do I cure my internet forum addiction?

with internet porn.

Scott

[Hustler]

How do I cure my internet forum addiction?

It requires a lot of discipline to treat yourself, much as it requires a lot of discipline from a smoker who wants to quit to do it on his own. Getting a stronger internet addiction is, of course, one way to do this (porn, MMORPG, MySpace or whatever), but this doesn't really help you out very much. I think quitting cold turkey has got to be the best way. Failing that, you could try to restrict yourself to only checking the forums of which you're a member at a certain time everyday for a maximum period of time. If you lack the discipline to do that, you can get software which blocks access to certain programs except at pre-approved times. You would end up having to block access to your browser(s) in order to prevent yourself from getting to the forums to which you are addicted, which may seem unfeasible on the surface but, in truth, if you have IAD, it's very likely that you would figure out a new way to squander time on the internet even if you couldn't get to your forums. It's like an alcoholic who thinks that just because beer is his drink of choice that he needn't prevent himself from drinking wine or liquor when he quits drinking beer to solve his problem. Or the gambling addict who thinks it's alright to walk into a casino, as long as he doesn't play roulette, because that's where he lost all of his money. It just doesn't work that way.

So, my suggestion is to first try cold turkey, then try using discipline then, if neither of those work, get a program to block access to software at certain times, set it, and give the password to reset it or unlock it to a friend.

[Spartan26]

What's wrong with me?

[Hustler]

What's wrong with me?

What do you think is wrong with you?

[Spartan26]

What do you think is wrong with you?
I'm about tired of self analysis. That's why I was outsourcing.

[Hustler]

I'm about tired of self analysis. That's why I was outsourcing.

There's your answer, friend.

[Eileen]

There's your answer, friend.

Well, that was easy. Brilliant!

[Spartan26]

Outsourcing is my problem??? How could it be if you're the one who set up the shingle? Come on, ante up.

[Hustler]

Outsourcing is my problem??? How could it be if you're the one who set up the shingle? Come on, ante up.

I see you deliberately misinterpreted my last post. This speaks directly to your problem:


I'm about tired of self analysis.

You are aware that you have problems, but you are tired of self-analysis. You are either unable to be honest with yourself or you are so disenfranchised with your life that you can't even face your problems anymore. Or you're just extremely lazy and want someone else to fix things.

If you want to continue with this discussion, it will require some self-analysis on your part. Are you ready to put forth the effort?

[Rooster]

What are some ways to deal with loneliness? Making new friends would seem like an obvious solution, but an INTP's defintion of friend can be very different from everyone else's. Even with lots of aquaintance friends, life can be very lonely and depressing. Since finding true companions takes time how can you deal with the loneliness you feel while searching and building bonds?

[omnirook]

What are some ways to deal with loneliness? Making new friends would seem like an obvious solution, but an INTP's defintion of friend can be very different from everyone else's. Even with lots of aquaintance friends, life can be very lonely and depressing. Since finding true companions takes time how can you deal with the loneliness you feel while searching and building bonds?
As I have gotten older, it has occured to me that a lot of what I did not like about my life, was really - and here was the surprise - of my own making.

When I was young and wanted to fit in and be like all the seemingly happier people around me, I wondered what was wrong w/me. It's called "Keeping up w/the Jonses." I had this knot of problems that just seemed impossible! Over time, I realized why they were "impossible:" I - me, the person, not the cog - LIKED a good amount of solitude. Then I was all right w/it. Then loneliness - evaporated.

[Lurker]

I don't trust anyone. I feel that the time I put into making friends and accomodating people is rarely worth it in the end. Some people tell me to live in the moment and enjoy the process of getting to know people; that if it tanks, it tanks. But it's hard work to open up again and again, and I rarely come out unscathed. I either want close friends or nothing. How can I determine who to put my time into or not?

[Faust06]

When I was young and wanted to fit in and be like all the seemingly happier people around me, I wondered what was wrong w/me. It's called "Keeping up w/the Jonses." I had this knot of problems that just seemed impossible! Over time, I realized why they were "impossible:" I - me, the person, not the cog - LIKED a good amount of solitude. Then I was all right w/it. Then loneliness - evaporated.

I'm aware that I value solitude more than most people, but that doesn't stop me from being lonely, having few people I can relate to.

[Rooster]

As I have gotten older, it has occured to me that a lot of what I did not like about my life, was really - and here was the surprise - of my own making.

When I was young and wanted to fit in and be like all the seemingly happier people around me, I wondered what was wrong w/me. It's called "Keeping up w/the Jonses." I had this knot of problems that just seemed impossible! Over time, I realized why they were "impossible:" I - me, the person, not the cog - LIKED a good amount of solitude. Then I was all right w/it. Then loneliness - evaporated.

That sounds promising, but don't you ever yearn for companionship? I'm not seeking happiness as much as I am seeking love and acknowledgement. I want a person with whom I can enjoy being around, and who enjoys it when I'm around. The loneliness I feel is...I don't know.

[altblue]

That sounds promising, but don't you ever yearn for companionship? I'm not seeking happiness as much as I am seeking love and acknowledgement. I want a person with whom I can enjoy being around, and who enjoys it when I'm around. The loneliness I feel is...I don't know.

I can very much relate to this...but music, books and gaming helps. ;) I've found that it seems harder to make very good friends the older I get, almost all of the few very close friends I have I met in high school or before that.

[Rooster]

I can very much relate to this...but music, books and gaming helps. ;) I've found that it seems harder to make very good friends the older I get, almost all of the few very close friends I have I met in high school or before that.

I think dating would help too but I always end up with these religous mother types who I have nothing in common with and who show no interest when I am around them but can't let go when I am away.

If it is true that only 35% of INTP's get married then I can only asume that I am included in the 65% who never will. Alas, doomed to a life of lonliness and despair. At least I can get pretty good at Halo 2 and read tons of books. :)

[Hustler]

What are some ways to deal with loneliness? Making new friends would seem like an obvious solution, but an INTP's defintion of friend can be very different from everyone else's. Even with lots of aquaintance friends, life can be very lonely and depressing. Since finding true companions takes time how can you deal with the loneliness you feel while searching and building bonds?

I am 29 years old, and I have approximately 3.5 friends, so believe me when I say I understand your position. It is hard to meet high-quality people who are worthy of becoming your friends. But, I am not lonely. Why? I think we must have different ways of spending our time alone, or we must evaluate the way we spend our time alone differently. Now, I agree that going out and meeting more people is probably a great cure for loneliness, but it is quite challening for an introvert to do that, not to mention exhausting. If you want to take a shot at that, I think it can't hurt, but I don't know if it will be your answer. I think your real answer is in how you spend all the long hours alone. What do you choose to think about? What sorts of activities do you do? Logically, you must realize that (given your personality) spending a lot of time alone is better than the hassles and lack of satisfaction which come from reducing your standards for friendship and allowing more people into your life, so perhaps the loneliness is derived from something else. Insecurities about yourself or irrational expectations for how you should live your life. Whatever the case, it would be illuminating, I think for you to discuss, or at least think about, those times when you feel lonely. What is really missing from your life that makes you feel that way? Is it really a need for more social contact, or is it something else? If it really is the former, you know the solution.

[kendoiwan]

I'm having a hell of a time trying to locate a reliable connect for Fake ID's... there are dollars to be made and I only have half of the equation... any suggestions?

[Hustler]

I'm having a hell of a time trying to locate a reliable connect for Fake ID's... there are dollars to be made and I only have half of the equation... any suggestions?

I know a guy, but there's no way he'd do this for someone I can only vouch for based on our mutual participation on an INTP message board. I'm all for using existing criminal elements in your social circle to tap into the broader underworld of illicit activity when you need something like this. So, if you know any drug dealers or check forgers or traffickers in illegal immigrants or Italian dudes who own a pizza shop in Brooklyn or some guy who supplies steroids to the powerlifters at the local gym or whatever else, that's always a good place to start. Crooks know other crooks. Failing that, it seems to me that a very large sector of the market for fake IDs is high school students looking to get beer. Know any high schoolers?

[Hustler]

I don't trust anyone. I feel that the time I put into making friends and accomodating people is rarely worth it in the end. Some people tell me to live in the moment and enjoy the process of getting to know people; that if it tanks, it tanks. But it's hard work to open up again and again, and I rarely come out unscathed. I either want close friends or nothing. How can I determine who to put my time into or not?

It sounds like you are looking for an increased efficiency in reading people. This is, of course, something which is very hard to teach or explain. I gather from your posts that you consider yourself a good reader of people, at least in an online setting. What are some of the ways you could logically extend this skill to people you meet face to face? Beyond that, what are some of the qualities you want to identify in a person most quickly? Once you have identified these traits -- both the positive and negative which you want to select for -- then the next move is to devise a sort of test by which you can have the person in question demonstrate the traits in question. Don't just ask him about himself; that rarely gives you a reliable answer. Have him demonstrate the aspects of his character which you find important through his actions. The key is knowing exactly what you want to find in people who are friend-worthy (and what you definitely don't want to find in them), and framing some of your early social encounters in such a way that their actions within those encounters can be illuminating in this regard.

[bergenski]

Don't just ask him about himself; that rarely gives you a reliable answer. Have him demonstrate the aspects of his character which you find important through his actions. The key is knowing exactly what you want to find in people who are friend-worthy (and what you definitely don't want to find in them), and framing some of your early social encounters in such a way that their actions within those encounters can be illuminating in this regard.
Still, what about potential behavior that remains concealed? Trustworthiness seems to be hard to measure.

[Rooster]

Whatever the case, it would be illuminating, I think for you to discuss, or at least think about, those times when you feel lonely. What is really missing from your life that makes you feel that way? Is it really a need for more social contact, or is it something else? If it really is the former, you know the solution.

I think I jumped to the word loneliness because I have no idea what this feeling is. It's a great anxiety that has suddenly appeared in my life, mostly as a result of the sudden disconnection from pretty much all the friends in my life. I recently graduated and transferred to a different college.

Before college I had great difficulty making friends. After enrolling, I was exposed to many, many different types of people who enjoyed me for who I am. I developed strong bonds to a lot of these people and have attempted to maintain some contact with them but the majority have already moved on. I would have to say that at least 90% of my pleasant social memories were formed in the last two years and those moments changed me quite dramatically and I didn't even notice until now.

This anxiety increases whenever I am around people who have strong bonds to one another. I see how they interact and a jealousy forms followed by this anxiety cloud which hangs over me for several days. When I think about old girlfriends or possible future hookups I almost become sick from this anxiety. The only things that alleviate this anxiety are video games and anime and I fear that I am slowly disconnecting from the world as I sink into this feeling.

Everyday it becomes more ever present. I don't even have to think about other people to feel it anymore and its driving me nuts. I wish I could express it some way but I don't even know what it is. What is this great anxiety? Why won't it pass? Why have I suddenly become so emotional and sentimental? It almost feels like I'm going through a great personality crisis as I can't rationlize why the hell I feel like I do. Just thinking about it makes it almost unbearable.

[Hustler]

Still, what about potential behavior that remains concealed?

There is only so much you can do. You could try to use correlated behavior to give you an idea of the likelihood of certain traits being concealed, but that usually requires an intuitive leap and may not be a very fair way of judging people. Incidentally, this is a lot easier to avoid if you seek to befriend extraverts. They are far less likely to be able to conceal major aspects of their personalities for very long. In the case of an introvert, an increased efficiency may mean getting to know someone in three years instead of five.

As with all things in life, though, practice does make perfect. The more you practice the art and science of reading people, the better you get at it, and the more quickly you pick up on what people are trying to conceal. This can be challenging for an introvert, however, because reading people does require social interaction. It's not something you can practice effectively in a vacuum. Not to mention, it requires finding a reason to be interested in other people, which is not always easy for an introvert either. Just try to remember the big picture: the more adroit you become at all aspects of social interaction -- not just reading people -- the more efficient your social exchanges become and, as such, the less draining they are to you as an introvert and the more satisfying they are overall. Add to this that the better you become at reading people, the better you become at concealing your own innermost thoughts and characteristics from others, and it can be very appealing for an introvert with a big-picture mentality to master this area of social interaction.

[Hustler]

Rooster, what other sources of stress do you have in your life right now besides this lack of friends? Physiological and psychological. I gather from what you've said thus far that your problem extends beyond just a lack of friends, but that this lack of confidants means that you are unable to share other problems you are having. You're not just lonely, but you're anxious because you want friends to share your life with both for purposes of having their input and feeling normal in the sense of not being some sort of pariah. You're in a major transitional phase in life (having just graudated from college with the "real world" on the horizon), and moving forward is always easier when you have others around you who are sharing the experience. I think that, normally, you would be able to look at your situation objectively and realize that, given your recent move, you are going to have to start the friend-making process anew, and that can take time, and you would be able to respond with patience. But some other source of stress has accelerated your need to find friends, all the while providing you no means with which to do that, thereby compounding your anxiety. I can also tell from your posts that you're interested in having a girlfriend, a true confessor and companion. Perhaps it is that form of companionship you desire most of all. Perhaps you have regrets over ending a past relationship and now you're wondering if you will ever manage to find a girlfriend that suitable again. You will, but me telling you that will do you little good. It's something life's experience will have to teach you. As such, your only solution, Rooster, is to continue experiencing life. Identify your exact problem. Determine exactly what it is that is causing you anxiety and decide how best to deal with that. Don't let the feelings of being alone in a new place overwhelm you and leave you sequestered in your room playing video games. I submit that you'd find more enjoyment in locating a fellow video game or anime enthusiast than just continuing to play video games. The best way to get started in your new environment is to at least give yourself a chance to meet some people. You can't accomplish this by playing video games and watching anime alone, but you could accomplish this by finding others out there who share your interests. Don't most colleges these days have anime clubs? Or a game room? Or other clubs where you might find people with interests similar to your own? I would say start there.

[Rooster]

Rooster, what other sources of stress do you have in your life right now besides this lack of friends?

Other than having no idea how I am going to pay for the next four years college, I can't think of any major stresses.


I can also tell from your posts that you're interested in having a girlfriend, a true confessor and companion. Perhaps it is that form of companionship you desire most of all.

Right on the money. Not much luck with this area though. The girls I like and date tend to dislike me or stalk me. The girls that like me don't tell me about it until its too late or they move away. Haven't had any great past romances but I sure miss the intimacy a lot.


Don't most colleges these days have anime clubs? Or a game room? Or other clubs where you might find people with interests similar to your own? I would say start there.

Very good idea. I'll start looking for people with similar interests and maybe I can develop some new friendships. I should have thought of that myself but I can't seem to rationalize worth a danm at this point in my life.

Thanx for the advice. I feel a little better already. :)

[Lurker]

It sounds like you are looking for an increased efficiency in reading people. This is, of course, something which is very hard to teach or explain. I gather from your posts that you consider yourself a good reader of people, at least in an online setting. What are some of the ways you could logically extend this skill to people you meet face to face? Beyond that, what are some of the qualities you want to identify in a person most quickly? Once you have identified these traits -- both the positive and negative which you want to select for -- then the next move is to devise a sort of test by which you can have the person in question demonstrate the traits in question. Don't just ask him about himself; that rarely gives you a reliable answer. Have him demonstrate the aspects of his character which you find important through his actions. The key is knowing exactly what you want to find in people who are friend-worthy (and what you definitely don't want to find in them), and framing some of your early social encounters in such a way that their actions within those encounters can be illuminating in this regard.

Wow...terrific response! Yes, online I have a fair amount of luck, but in person I am blindsided by the demand of social interaction. If a person requires too much engagement from me - particularly if the person has a significantly different personality - I detach and figuratively "float away" as a defense against the stress. If I enjoy the person's company and I feel comfortable, I detach and "record"; in fact, I've often thought that my senses act as a running camcorder. Of course, in order to observe, I need to blend well enough so that I don't really need to actively engage; it's a bit like autopilot. So, in most social situations, I am a poor representative of myself. My brain does not analyze at the moment - only in retrospect, and retrospective memory is often more of a hazy rumination colored by impressions. Perhaps I should focus less on the actual interaction and more on what I observe when I observe it? This is hard, because being social is exhausting. I feel like I have to tend to the immediate interaction or it will disintegrate. I hope this makes sense. I'm mentally overloaded and I can only handle so much stimuli at once...but this is only true with people I've just met or people that are very different from me.

[LostInThoughts]

All messiahs are. It's all part of the lifestyle.

Dear Sir,

What is the difference between a Narcissistic Personality Disorder and megalomania?

How might they be expressed on an internet forum?

Are mullets still considered cool?

Gratefully yours,:)

[EDIT: I hope this wasn't taken the wrong way, I intended to jokingly probe your feigned grandiosity]

[bergenski]

Could you provide a compelling argument to assuage those who believe it is too late to be who they were capable of being, that too much time has been wasted?

[Hustler]

What is the difference between a Narcissistic Personality Disorder and megalomania?

I'm just guessing, but I think the difference is one of control. The narcissist will feel a sense of self-importance and desire to see others give him the attention he is due on account of this heightened importance. Those who do not grant him this attention and adulation will be rejected and ignored or scorned. The megalomaniac will be more proactive in gaining control over others. As with the narcissist, he views himself as being of great importance, but he takes it a step further by forcing others to kowtow to him, seeking to impose far more severe punishments to those who don't than those the narcissist uses. I can imagine situations where megalomania stems from narcissism.


How might they be expressed on an internet forum?

A megalomaniac would try to take over the forum and run it according to his own vision. A narcissist would try to turn every thread into something about himself, hoping to garner attention and affection in doing so.


Are mullets still considered cool?

I am a little out of touch with mullets, but I think they are considered cool in an ironic fashion in certain circles.


[EDIT: I hope this wasn't taken the wrong way, I intended to jokingly probe your feigned grandiosity]

Are you saying you think I have a mullet?

[Hustler]

Could you provide a compelling argument to assuage those who believe it is too late to be who they were capable of being, that too much time has been wasted?

I think that really depends on what it is the person in question believes he is capable of being. If you're 40 and you think you're capable of being an olympic gymnast, and want to get started on that right away, I think you're deluded. If you're 40 and you think you're going to embark on a career as a successful writer, I think you have a chance of winning the Pulitzer or Nobel. In general, getting a late start on being who you were capable of being makes for a challenge, but it is far from being an insurmountable obstacle. I mean, there are entire books (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0872879372/102-9536362-2258544?v=glance&n=283155) on the subject, so there must be something to it.

[kendoiwan]

I'm just guessing, but I think the difference is one of control. The narcissist will feel a sense of self-importance and desire to see others give him the attention he is due on account of this heightened importance. Those who do not grant him this attention and adulation will be rejected and ignored or scorned. The megalomaniac will be more proactive in gaining control over others. As with the narcissist, he views himself as being of great importance, but he takes it a step further by forcing others to kowtow to him, seeking to impose far more sever punishments to those who don't than those the narcissist uses. I can imagine situations where megalomania stems from narcissism.





I am a little out of touch with mullets, but I think they are considered cool in an ironic fashion in certain circles.



Are you saying you think I have a mullet?


Great distinction... Mullets were NEVER cool...:joft:

[MacGuffin]

Dear Hustler, (sounds like a porn column!)

I was recently challenged on the internet to make a quality thread on a forum.

Should I accept the challenge? What are the potential downsides to accepting?

[bclark619g]

Dear Hustler, (sounds like a porn column!)

I was recently challenged on the internet to make a quality thread on a forum.

Should I accept the challenge? What are the potential downsides to accepting?

MacGuffin, your posting here deserves Classic status!

Very creative.

Bravo!

[Hustler]

I was recently challenged on the internet to make a quality thread on a forum.

Are you sure that "challenge" is the right word to describe this situation? Challenge implies a level of competition or difficulty which isn't necessarily the case when it comes to making a quality thread on a forum.


Should I accept the challenge? What are the potential downsides to accepting?

Perhaps this is a question better answered by you. I assume from this post that you have not yet engaged the process of creating or actively facilitating the quality thread in question, so I wonder if you could elaborate as to why you have such reservations. It is clear you have already considered and even identified the downsides and that perhaps this has gone into your hesitancy. In the light of a risk vs. reward analysis, what do you suppose is the risk and what do you suppose could be the reward?

[MacGuffin]

Perhaps this is a question better answered by you. I assume from this post that you have not yet engaged the process of creating or actively facilitating the quality thread in question, so I wonder if you could elaborate as to why you have such reservations. It is clear you have already considered and even identified the downsides and that perhaps this has gone into your hesitancy. In the light of a risk vs. reward analysis, what do you suppose is the risk and what do you suppose could be the reward?
I have actually been thinking of a thread for a couple of weeks now.

I just feel that it will cause undue drama if I am not careful with my words. The intent is good, but others will feel attacked.

[Hustler]

I have actually been thinking of a thread for a couple of weeks now.

I think you should let it out. A couple of weeks is more than enough time for a thread to be kicking around in your mind. If you haven't let it go by now, then it must be worth sharing.


I just feel that it will cause undue drama if I am not careful with my words. The intent is good, but others will feel attacked.

Perhaps these things would happen, but is it not worth this risk in order to make a quality thread? If some people are not mature, detached or objective enough to handle your thread, is it fair that you should allow these people such power in giving you pause when there is a wider community which would benefit from experiencing a quality thread? Not to mention the personal satisfaction you get from being responsible for sparking a quality thread. No, sometimes you just have to go ahead and take a calculated risk so that you and others can have a great, rewarding journey, even if the ride is likely to be a little bumpy in places.