....those crazy frenchies

[papertrail]

i’m sure you’ve heard. the french government would like to step into the 21st century and frenchies aren’t haven’t it.

de villepin has proposed a law that would enable employers to fire workers less than 26 years old without cause during the first years of employment.

that’s just crazy to me….so if I’m 27 i’m golden? all i’d have to do is stay under the radar? frenchies…


do you think the French would benefit from the proposed changes? are the french people being unrealistic?

[Lee]

Soon the French government plans to create legislation which will allow only particular foods to be eaten at breakfast time, alternating daily on weekly cycles.

[papertrail]

:rant: those damn frenchies...

umm....now vote.

[distraction tactics]

The argument being, of course, this will inspire employers to take more of a chance on hiring youth.

I'm not convinced age has anything to do with quality of work or ethic.

[sbw]

I loved the "franchise that bitch" option so much that I had to vote for it.

that being said, they could never keep up with our* work ethic if they are accustomed to the 32 hour work week, or whatever it is.

Scott

*not me, of course--other americans, somewhere...

[distraction tactics]

I think it's 35, and I think they're getting rid of it.

[Lee]

On the upside, it makes young people less of a risk. Because younger people are young, they have less of a track record, less history, they are an unknown quantity, so employers will be averse to hiring them unless some of the risk factor can be removed, usually this takes the form of lower wages, but with minimum wage laws imposed there sometimes isn't an option for lower wages, even if the employer and the employee both agree they'd prefer it!

So, a law like this would again, lower the risk of hiring unknowns, thus making it easier for younger people to get along in the job market.

However, I suspect the "problem" is likely the conseqeunce of government meddling in the labour market, so the solution is more of a bandaid for a larger problem.

[Geoff]

I was in Paris a week ago, when there were riots about this. The city felt very uncomfortable, like a boiling over pot. Hmm.

Later, I heard that people were mugged across the city, knowing the police were too busy trying to sort out violent protesters.

I wouldnt want to be running France... no money to sort out economic problems, and no way of improving the situation without reducing health and society benefits. Can't reduce benefits without getting riots and ultimately a fallen government.

Perhaps we should just close the Channel Tunnel.

-Geoff

[jittus rye]

It benefits the people that will do anything for their boss, including sexual favors, and isn't that beneficial to those that are more pieces of shit.

[distraction tactics]

I would think progressive compensation to employers for those employees under 26 would be a far better, if more expensive, idea.

[coffeezombie]

I assume the people protesting though are not as much the people who aren't getting the jobs until age 25, but the people with the education and skills to get the jobs and the lifetime contract even while under age 25. These are the people that would lose out because of the new legislation.

[papertrail]

the protestors remind of the uaw and.... france -- general motors. how long do they really think they can ride this pig? france would like its pseudo--superpower status back and they need to compete.

although a 35 hour work week sounds damn good. never get fired huh? i’m amazed intp’s haven’t over run the place.

[sbw]

I would think progressive compensation to employers for those employees under 26 would be a far better, if more expensive, idea.

reminds me of a bit from SNL's weekend update--with norm mcdonald, the best they ever had on the desk:

(this is paraphrased)

"under a new government program, business owners who hire a convicted felon will receive a tax credit...business owners who hire more than one convicted felon will be beaten and robbed."

Scott

[Dr. Haight]

Geoff,
This is completely unrelated to the thread--I apologize--yet I cannot refrain from commenting on your avatar. As an American, and a history buff, I find myself in a state of jealously regarding the picture you are utilizing. Yes, of course, I can visit Boston and Phili for the twentieth time, although it's not quite the same, is it. So, sir, I see your fantastic image from pre-American colony British history and I raise you one better.

[Dr. Haight]

Well, that didn't work quite the way I intended.
You know that you have yet to reconcile your past atrocities perpetrated on your indigenous peoples when your search for, "Native American Thumbnails," results in someone actually trying to sell you Native American thumb nails. God, that is brutal. And how do they keep the nails from browning?
I guess I loose....again.

[mgb]

i’m sure you’ve heard. the french government would like to step into the 21st century and frenchies aren’t haven’t it.

de villepin has proposed a law that would enable employers to fire workers less than 26 years old without cause during the first years of employment.

that’s just crazy to me….so if I’m 27 i’m golden? all i’d have to do is stay under the radar? frenchies…


do you think the French would benefit from the proposed changes? are the french people being unrealistic?

It seems like a good idea on paper but it will quickly and obviously get abused by employers. With 25% unemployment at that age, employers will hire and fire people at will, whether they are a good employee or not. The incentive to keep people around would be pretty low if you can easily keep people at the lowest end of the pay scale by just hiring new people to replace them. And what if you miss work because you are sick? They can just replace you. Want a raise? Replace. No one in that age bracket will have any job security and no ability to have credit or get a mortgage or anything that people elsewhere in those age groups take advantage of.

Not to mention, it's just out and out discrimination of people based on their age, especially as they are adults.

[papertrail]

i started to become alarmed when i read your post and then realized what you described was ‘at will’ employment and is pretty common in the u.s. we’ve managed to do okay…*cough* outsourcing

maybe french society isn’t as litigious as the u.s. because even though it’s ‘at will’ employment, employers just can’t fire someone because they are sick, etc.…not unless they want the aclu and any number of flatulent attorneys filing suits...not the attorneys on this board of course.

there’s a growth segment for the french economy – legal services.

[Claverhouse]

Dominique de Villepin has been forced to withdraw his stupid proposals completely due to the excellent use of Action Directe by the objectors. The French are far tougher and less easily driven than the sheeplike Anglos whether American or British. The latter will always do as they are told, the French and other continentals either object or ignore oppressive laws.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[papertrail]

can u believe that?

[Claverhouse]

Quite easily: you tell the British to take a pay-cut and they grumble; you tell the French and Paris looks like a bomb hit it.

They also smoke under no-smoking signs.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[dubbeltop]

Yeah but a whole generation of young french people will be unemployed and at some point there will be need for drastic measures. Unfortunately the world has been caught in the capatalist dream of money and think that working hard garantees a happy life. but in the US they work hard and for less then the minimum wage cuzzz illegal immigrants are taking there jobs. So this law is not enough employers are needed to make a contribution to society as well not just making money but also spend it. Why should people stick to the law when companies go to another country to avoid paying taxes or to hire cheap labor? The arrogance of today corporations is huge and that is the reason we should be on the streets.

[Claverhouse]

I agree with dubbeltop.

*blinks, and takes own temperature*


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Architectonic]

France is not the only country to have recently undergone a series of revisions to their labour laws.

But I guess this illustrates Claverhouse's point - Anglos write an angry letter to their local newspaper, Parisians start rioting.

[Serotonin]

France is not the only country to have recently undergone a series of revisions to their labour laws.

But I guess this illustrates Claverhouse's point - Anglos write an angry letter to their local newspaper, Parisians start rioting.

For once I'm actually glad I'm currently doing contract work. :huh:

The funny thing is, all the right-wing bloggers are currently saying "France is surrendering to itself".

... in the fact that when they say "France" they mean the ruling elite.
And on this board we are looking at France from the perspective of the worker.

Old habits die hard.

[Shimpei]

Serotonin: I like your signature. :) (The message was intended for me, btw and it really makes me feel better to think I'm in control :banana: )

[Serotonin]

Serotonin: I like your signature. :) (The message was intended for me, btw and it really makes me feel better to think I'm in control :banana: )

I see the quote as essentially a deus ex machina for that whole GCCP thread.

[papertrail]

we’re both checking our temperature. he’s right. corporations are monsters.

i just don’t know how long france can remain significant…maybe they don’t care. i think working 35 hours a week and guaranteed employment is great - for those on the inside of the social system. i imagine it’s like hell if your outsider trying to get in. i can’t help but think part of the reason behind the protest was to keep french society insulated from outsiders.

france’s gdp was about 1.8 trillion. india’s was 3.6….hell mexico’s was 1 trillion and while life isn’t about how much money you can make it’s a logical concern for any government.

maybe they'll be pushed out off the security council if they drop below south korea’s 965 million.

[Jasz]

i think working 35 hours a week and guaranteed employment is great

why is guaranteed employment great? i voted yes

[papertrail]

any type of social safety net is great for those it catches. it promotes laziness and drains resources but what does the person care if their comfortable. they don't.

maybe i should rephrase - it would be great if it existed for everyone and there was never any competition.

[Jasz]

any type of social safety net is great for those it catches. it promotes laziness and drains resources but what does the person care if their comfortable. they don't.

maybe i should rephrase - it would be great if it existed for everyone and there was never any competition.

a safety net should be an option, not a guarantee
never any competition would be dreadfully dull
i am not extremely competitive but no progress was ever made without some competition and competition can be hugely entertaining

[papertrail]

i think safety nets should be for the poor and those who lack protections but otherwise i agree with you.

i’d rather we didn’t work at all…just take pottery classes, read nancy drew books and get high.

that’s just not the world we live in.

eta: if we’re going to compete, i’d rather not come in dead last..kwim?

[dubbeltop]

Thats why the french have culture and the americans Mc Donalds :)

show me your hamburger face

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hamburger_Hill

[booyalab]

Thats why the french have culture and the americans Mc Donalds :)

show me your hamburger face

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hamburger_Hill


http://www.americansinfrance.net/Culture/McDonalds_In_France.cfm



There are over 800 McDonalds in France, and José Bové (the farmer turned activist who in an act of civil disobedience drove a tractor into a McDonalds) aside, the French just love McDo (pronounced Mac Dough) as it's called in France. The first McDonalds in France was built in 1979 and is located in Strasbourg's Les Hall shopping center..........

The French did at one time have a love/hate relationship with McDonalds; it was seen as part of an American cultural invasion. That seems to be past as McDonalds has so become a part of French culture that it's not seen as an American import any longer, but wholly French. In short, McDonalds has grown on the French just like in so many other countries.


http://lacoquette.blogs.com/la_coquette/2006/01/a_love_affair_o.html


Yes, the French have a love affair with McDonald's.

http://www.danieldrezner.com/archives/001187.html


Call the French snooty, or just demanding, for their attention to good food, good wine, good atmosphere in their restaurants, for lingering over their meals. But the French have a dirty little secret: Of all the people in Europe, they like McDonald's more than anyone else does

[dubbeltop]

Lets hope the do or die mentally of hamburger hill doesnt find its way towards the french labour market. Anyway vietnam has also a french connection so i guess that makes both countries rather pigheaded.



mentally=mentality

[Claverhouse]

Apparently it was not merely the righteous protests of the workers that scuppered the reforms: Chirac withdrew the proposals after encouraging his prime minister so that the latter would have to cave in humilatingly whilst still remaining in his post, fatally wounded as to any chance of becoming president. Mr. Chirac has grave doubts as to the advisibility of anyone other than himself being president of the republic. As did the late General before him.

You have to hand it to the old bastard.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[wildcat]

Apparently it was not merely the righteous protests of the workers that scuppered the reforms: Chirac withdrew the proposals after encouraging his prime minister so that the latter would have to cave in humilatingly whilst still remaining in his post, fatally wounded as to any chance of becoming president. Mr. Chirac has grave doubts as to the advisibility of anyone other than himself being president of the republic. As did the late General before him.

You have to hand it to the old bastard.


Claverhouse :ph34r:
et encore faut-il le repeter

[Purple-Silver Fox]

Apparently it was not merely the righteous protests of the workers that scuppered the reforms: Chirac withdrew the proposals after encouraging his prime minister so that the latter would have to cave in humilatingly whilst still remaining in his post, fatally wounded as to any chance of becoming president. Mr. Chirac has grave doubts as to the advisibility of anyone other than himself being president of the republic. As did the late General before him.

You have to hand it to the old bastard.


Claverhouse :ph34r:
Wasn't De Villepin Chirac's poulain and his preferred successor? If Chirac would want tot discredit anyone within his own partyit would be Sarkozy, but that one has been distancing himself from the proposal since the beginning of the protests.

[Claverhouse]

Wasn't De Villepin Chirac's poulain and his preferred successor? If Chirac would want tot discredit anyone within his own partyit would be Sarkozy, but that one has been distancing himself from the proposal since the beginning of the protests.

It never harms to keep any ally down, and it is possible that Chirac may find the strength within himself to run for a third term. de Villepin has always been appointed by Chirac, not elected, so has little popular support without his patron, therefore he can't challenge him head on. I would imagine that Chirac would discredit any rival easily enough if they threatened him.

My mother's comment was that Mr. de Villepin was handsome. Geez.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Dom]

It will just result in empolyers hiring yougn people and then sacking them before they become un sackable and get a new young person to do the job, replace older people with youngies etc etc,

I think employment laws need lookign at, sure its important to protect workers from being able to be unfairly dismissed, but sometimes it's very hard to get rid of incompitent staff, especially for the bigger companies, but they do take the piss though and do loads of other stuff that is unlawful, shame redundancies, etc etc no one challenges them, they think they wouldn't do it if it wasn't legal....... how naive so many people are.......

[Dom]

It never harms to keep any ally down, and it is possible that Chirac may find the strength within himself to run for a third term. de Villepin has always been appointed by Chirac, not elected, so has little popular support without his patron, therefore he can't challenge him head on. I would imagine that Chirac would discredit any rival easily enough if they threatened him.

My mother's comment was that Mr. de Villepin was handsome. Geez.


Claverhouse :ph34r:




Thrd term?? of Chirac? noooooo, I'm not even sure LePenn would discourage the FRench from ditching him

THey HATE him at the mo, they defeated the EU consititution just to bloody his nose!

[Dom]

Apparently it was not merely the righteous protests of the workers that scuppered the reforms: Chirac withdrew the proposals after encouraging his prime minister so that the latter would have to cave in humilatingly whilst still remaining in his post, fatally wounded as to any chance of becoming president. Mr. Chirac has grave doubts as to the advisibility of anyone other than himself being president of the republic. As did the late General before him.

You have to hand it to the old bastard.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

He is a slippery one, but lets not underestimate how much the normal french person still hates him..........

[Claverhouse]

Even a Frenchman can still dream romantically of revitalising an old affaire d'coeur...


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Claverhouse]

He is a slippery one, but lets not underestimate how much the normal french person still hates him..........

Let's not underestimate how much the normal French person hates everybody.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Dom]

Even a Frenchman can still dream romantically of revitalising an old affaire d'coeur...


Claverhouse :ph34r:

Well he may get his third term if no viable alternative can be found, if he engineered a Chriac, LePenn rerun I'll pray to god he wins.........

But I think the french would pick almost anyone, as long as they wer french, rather than him right now...

HAdn't occured to me though that Dom de villepan would go for pres..... bit early inhis career for that ain't it?

[Claverhouse]

HAdn't occured to me though that Dom de villepan would go for pres..... bit early inhis career for that ain't it?


He's 52. French presidents don't have to be in their late 70s, they just have to look as though they are. Danton was only 35 when he died and Robespierre 36 --- despite both looking about 60 --- but then they had Madame Guillotine to terminate politician's careers ahead of schedule back then.


Claverhouse :ph34r: