Doing group work in class with ESFJ's....

[jread]

It's always the same.... I even find it funny these days.

Last night in class I get paired up with two ESFJ girls (one might have been an ESTJ) and an ESFJ guy, and we have to answer three questions that the professor has written on the board. The questions kind of elaborated on the course lecture, making you really think and come up with your *own* opinion by applying the concepts to the real world.

So, we all get together and then the professor gives tells us to get started. The ESXJ's immediately start flipping pages in the book to the beginning of the chapter, then systematically start writing things down exactly as they appear in the book... "It says this here, (turns page), then here it says this". They were so busy gathering information out of the book and running their mouths that they really weren't doing anything to answer the questions.

I sat there quietly for about 5 minutes, not looking at them or responding to their chatter. Each kept wanting the others to validate what they came up with.... "Does this sound good?" "This is what it means, right?"

All through this, I was scanning through the chapter, mentally highlighting key points and bold words. I hadn't listened to a single word of the lecture, so this was pretty much the first time I'd seen any of this.

I got to the end, then mentally compared the concepts, thought about how they work in the overall scheme of things, then pretty much said right in the middle of all their talking (and they still weren't past the first out of three parts), "Here's how I see it......."

As soon as I started to speak, they all froze as if someone had hit a "Pause" button, then just blankly stared at me. Once I was done, the pens started scratching as they tried to write down everything I said (which wasn't much, especially compared to the full page of pointless info they'd already scribbled down). On the next few questions, they pretty much waited for me to answer them myself. I would ask if everyone agreed with the answer, and they'd just say, "Yeah, yeah, that sounds good." It's like they just wanted an answer without having to do any thinking at all. One of the girls would contribute a little (a possible "T") but the others would just sit there and write everything.

Is it just me or does this happen to anyone else?

[last_caress]

:worthy:

[Snowflake]

Heh.

[Zero Angel]

This happens a lot when I deal with FJ's. The whole value judgement way of appraising things (when i'm looking for critical judgement) kind of bothers me. I suppose it works a little better if you ask them individually instead of relying on group consensus.

Reminds me a lot of the Bystander Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect)

[fripping]

all the damn time, it's pretty much a natural law along the lines of gravity

[jyakulis]

heh i dunno i guess...except people usually don't listen to me.

in my one lab our professor gives us what we have to do and we have to come up with the procedures of how everything will be done. within the first 5 minutes of our meeting the one time i was like ok we use x-ray diffraction to identify the phases and measure the powder size by the peak broadening. they looked at me stopped then started doing their own thing again. about 30 minutes later one of them brilliantly says i got it XRD!!! i was just like ooooohhhhhhhhhh kkkkkkkkkk...that's a really good idea. though i highly doubt they were esfj's....the one is prolly an entp, other is prolly estp, other is prolly an istj, and one that didn't show up for the group meeting was prolly an istp or intp.

[kendoiwan]

all the damn time, it's pretty much a natural law along the lines of gravity

what he said

[kendoiwan]

Imagine being stuck next to one at work all day

[Crazy]

That happens to me a lot. The best time was when we were doing some work by ourselves, and the instructor came in to see how everyone was doing. He looked at some peoples papers, and when he gets to mine, he says, "you all should talk to him, he's got a good answer." So, after he leaves, everyone asks me what I wrote, so I told them, and the first thing out of thier mouths was "where did you find that? I didn't see it" as they start flipping pages in the text. I swear, most people don't get things unless it's written down in plain english. Few seem to be able to see past the words on the page.

[Pooja]

I hate working with J's... right now, I have the perfect lab partner, b/c she sees no problem in bending the lab rules in order to leave early. For example, we can't leave lab until we finish the entire (usually 2 part) procedure. So I always have my partner (or me) do the 1st half, while the other doest the second half. Then we trade data and leave in half the time.
But last semester, my partner wouldn't, b/c "the TA said not to"... aargghh

[joft]

in "group" activities in classes I try as hard as I can to just sit quietly on the sidelines, but always end up leading the group. I hate it. I can only take so much of their babbling (or silence, either way is just wasting time), and then I have to just try to chime in and suggest what I know the right answer is, hoping that that will end the awkward tension and we can be decided as to how we're going to answer. and many times I end up having to repeat it over and over, "Well, I really think it's ____"

[Pooja]

I'm the same way... I'll wait to see if a leader emerges, and if one does, then I'll be the "creative" person that just works under them. But if the group is comprised of a bunch of morons, and none of them are leader-quality, I'll step in and allot (democratically) tasks, and be the leader.
But I hate just being a brainless follower/sheep more than anything else. Especially if the leader is less intelligent. Those are the most frustrating situations, imo.

[Biff_Loman]

To hell with analysis. Someone's already come up with the right answer. Just find it.

:laser:

or

This is one reason why I'm not a teacher.

Edit: Fucking students.

[Julia]

I'm an ENFP, and granted I adore INTPs.. I still think all my answers are the best, I just have to make you think they are your ideas. :) That is unless I hurt your feelings, then I'll switch it up. :cheer:

[moni]

:mellow: i usually look for answers in the book... 'cause it'd take me longer to compose my thoughts. the class would probably be over by the time i say "ah, now i get it."

:sadbanana:

[nottaprettygal]

:mellow: i usually look for answers in the book... 'cause it'd take me longer to compose my thoughts. the class would probably be over by the time i say "ah, now i get it."

:sadbanana:

Don't worry. So do I. Unfortunately, sometimes class is not a place for creative thinking. Teachers often reward people who base their answers off of the textbook because they are thrilled that people actually appear to be reading it.

[jread]

So, after he leaves, everyone asks me what I wrote, so I told them, and the first thing out of thier mouths was "where did you find that? I didn't see it" as they start flipping pages in the text. I swear, most people don't get things unless it's written down in plain english. Few seem to be able to see past the words on the page.

You hit the nail on the head.

I also agree with those who hate having to "be the leader". I've found, though, that at 9:30 p.m. after a full day of work and 3 hours of a night class, I'm willing to take charge just to get the hell out of there and go home.

The bad thing is that if you do it once, then everyone expects you to take over each group project from that point on. I usually try to get one of the Extroverts to do the "reporting" when it's time to tell the class what we came up with. Sometimes this works, but oftentimes they fuck it up and I end up having to be the group spokesman as well.

[Crazy]

You hit the nail on the head.

I also agree with those who hate having to "be the leader". I've found, though, that at 9:30 p.m. after a full day of work and 3 hours of a night class, I'm willing to take charge just to get the hell out of there and go home.

The bad thing is that if you do it once, then everyone expects you to take over each group project from that point on. I usually try to get one of the Extroverts to do the "reporting" when it's time to tell the class what we came up with. Sometimes this works, but oftentimes they fuck it up and I end up having to be the group spokesman as well.Yes, there is always the problem of having to give the right answer (because, I just can't stand being part of a group that is way off when I know what should be said) and not wanting to be branded as the "smart one" or the "spokesman". It's the curse of the INTX.

[Justin05]

I dated an ESFJ for about 18 months. Is that a guinness world record for an INTP? It was quite insane. I was a part of shin digs where she would get black out drunk and I had to be the nurse after working 30 hours a week. I would say "do you enjoy not remembering if someone could of raped you" to her but it never phased. She enjoyed spontonaeity(sp) a lot when I displayed to her and I think that was the attraction. I think her match is the ISTP after all. But I was unable to deal w/ simple things after a while. Like, "com over at 4pm, I will cook" And I would roll in around 7:30 after eating some good food. Very neat experience but as a result I think I developed mild insanity;. Though we had similar musical interests at the time which is odd. So I spend a good part of college chasing my shadow around. It was interesting to see her depressed and become a negative INTP and when I was pissed flip out on her like an irrational ESFJ. Tis true what they say about the shadows. Ever see Unbreakable? Let's make her Mr. Glass cuz she was emotional and I can be Bruce Willis an invincible hero. :wtf:

[Lee]

Is it just me or does this happen to anyone else?No, because I like to try and make people think, I usually ask them leading questions in the hope that they can figure it out themselves.

I have good teaching instincts.

[Nadiar]

I work with an ESFJ... Our job is to troubleshoot problems of all sizes and fix them in less than 2 hours, so its always funny reading his troubleshooting attempts. But on the other hand, everyone else just kind of points him at something monotonous that we don't want to do, and let him loose.