Rape allegations against Duke Lacrosse team

[Ivy]

Any thoughts about this news story? Everyone's talking about it here, and I thought it was pretty much local news until I saw it on CNN this morning.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0329061duke1.html

[Conan]

Got this email yesterday. I do believe people are innocent until proven guilty. However, as a firsthand witness of Duke's culture, I would not be surprised in the least if it were true. I also hope that if it is, these kids feel the full extent of the law because Ive seen way too many overpriveleged white males at this school get away with far too much because of their parents' money and connections.


Dear Duke Alumni,

Many of you will have heard by now news accounts about allegations against the Duke lacrosse team, which the captains of the team deny. Yesterday evening, Director of Athletics Joe Alleva and I met with members of the news media to discuss the situation. My statement announcing the suspension of lacrosse games and a supplementary statement amplifying on a question from the press conference are available on a special website: http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/mmedia/features/lacrosse_incident/. I invite you to read them so that you will be better informed about what is happening at Duke.

It's understandable to feel badly when terrible things may have happened at a place you love, and I've heard from many of you who have expressed sadness, anger, outrage, and frustration about the lacrosse situation. Let me also say that as painful as these times are, the test of a school is not preventing bad things from ever happening, but in addressing them in an honest and forthright way. In my meetings with students, faculty, and administrators, I believe Duke is doing just that. I urge you to keep informed of developments by checking the website as the days go by.

Sincerely yours,

Richard H. Brodhead

[Superstring]

Any thoughts about this news story? Everyone's talking about it here, and I thought it was pretty much local news until I saw it on CNN this morning.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0329061duke1.html

DISGUSTING. Death penalty for all :laser:

[domokun]

DISGUSTING. Death penalty for all :laser:
I can see a movie starring Jodie Foster coming up in 2009.

[bergenski]

I do believe people are innocent until proven guilty. However, as a firsthand witness of Duke's culture, I would not be surprised in the least if it were true. I also hope that if it is, these kids feel the full extent of the law because Ive seen way too many overpriveleged white males at this school get away with far too much because of their parents' money and connections.

Could you elaborate?

[Ivy]

The discussions around here have been interesting. One thing that has come up is "taking the word of a stripper over nice boys from good families," which gives me all kinds of oogy feelings. There's also a racial component, as the alleged victim was black and she says that the three men who raped her were all white. That's the source of a lot of the tension in Durham-- the Ivy League university with so much privilege, situated downtown in a city with a very large poor black population. My feeling is that there were already a lot of undefined tensions, but this event has given them a face and an outlet.

[domokun]

The discussions around here have been interesting. One thing that has come up is "taking the word of a stripper over nice boys from good families," which gives me all kinds of oogy feelings. There's also a racial component, as the alleged victim was black and she says that the three men who raped her were all white. That's the source of a lot of the tension in Durham-- the Ivy League university with so much privilege, situated downtown in a city with a very large poor black population. My feeling is that there were already a lot of undefined tensions, but this event has given them a face and an outlet.
So "nice boys from good families" never lie? Vote: http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=9836

[nottaprettygal]

I do believe people are innocent until proven guilty. However, as a firsthand witness of Duke's culture, I would not be surprised in the least if it were true.

Eh. It's not something unique to Duke's culture. Unfortunately that sort of behavior happens on college campuses everywhere. And I'd say that the majority of the time, the person comitting the rape gets off relatively easy, simply because of the school's desire to keep the incident quiet.




There's also a racial component, as the alleged victim was black and she says that the three men who raped her were all white.

I've read that the players are also accused of choking and beating her. Unfortunately, when a crime is committed against the member of a minority group by a white person, the guilty party is likely to receive a penalty that is less harsh.

[In...TP]

I'd guess they weren't good tippers.

Edit: I know nothing.

[Superstring]

Eh. It's not something unique to Duke's culture. Unfortunately that sort of behavior happens on college campuses everywhere. And I'd say that the majority of the time, the person comitting the rape gets off relatively easy, simply because of the school's desire to keep the incident quiet.





I've read that the players are also accused of choking and beating her. Unfortunately, when a crime is committed against the member of a minority group by a white person, the guilty party is likely to receive a penalty that is less harsh.

You're such a rapistcist it's not even funny :mellow:

[Ferrus]

So "nice boys from good families" never lie?
No, many go on to become lawyers, which suggests they have honed their mendacity.

[Nemesis]

The discussions around here have been interesting. One thing that has come up is "taking the word of a stripper over nice boys from good families,"
Social standing has absolutely nothing to do with what kind of person you are.

Better?

[Conan]

The thing is, this aggressive, entitled, take what you want, the world is yours attitude is sought after and valued in the real world (esp. business and law) and is often instilled in their children by these elite, wealthy parents.

[Eileen]

The discussions around here have been interesting. One thing that has come up is "taking the word of a stripper over nice boys from good families," which gives me all kinds of oogy feelings. There's also a racial component, as the alleged victim was black and she says that the three men who raped her were all white. That's the source of a lot of the tension in Durham-- the Ivy League university with so much privilege, situated downtown in a city with a very large poor black population. My feeling is that there were already a lot of undefined tensions, but this event has given them a face and an outlet.

Only tangentially related: Wasn't it Durham that had the cross-burning last May?

[panda]

A couple of the replies in this thread seem wildly inappropriate.

[DeadDove]

When I first saw what charges were brought foward my initial reaction is why isn't there a "false imprisonment charge," but when I read the account of what happened it became clear why they went with the kidnapping charge instead. Given what's in the account, I think the kidnapping charge is going to be the hardest to prove on a purely philosopical issue; however, the main problem I see the prosecution running into will be the issue of "consent." The defense will no doubt bring up the issue about why she returned to the house if she felt endangered and start to put the blame on her, which will be a completely load of crap and start going on the attack the victims character, and possible past sexual encounters if they can manage to get the courts to allow it. IMO it's very disheartening to know that this often goes unreported and when it does get reported the accussed usually get off fairly lightly. This happens among the privileged and athletic alike on many college campus, no doubt.

[DeadDove]

A couple of the replies in this thread seem wildly inappropriate.

definate understatement.

[nottaprettygal]

WOW. If I hear one more person say that, I might have to choke and rape a bitch out of anger.

You know, I have never believed in reporting offensive posts, but you seriously make me question that after this statement.

[Conan]

I think this calls for another ban.

[floyd]

intpc is no place for over-the-top / absurdist sarcasm.

[Nemesis]

You know, I have never believed in reporting offensive posts, but you seriously make me question that after this statement.
Right. You know, I have never been one for doubting people's sincerity when they say stuff, but you seriously make me question that after everything you've ever posted.

PS- I was being sarcastic.

[nottaprettygal]

Right. You know, I have never been one for doubting people's sincerity when they say stuff, but you seriously make me question that after everything you've ever posted.

PS- I was being sarcastic.

I understand that you were being sarcastic. Nonetheless, I think that sarcasm has its limits, and your comment was borderline offensive at best. I will drop it though, as I am too mature to exchange insults with a high school student.

[Nemesis]

I understand that you were being sarcastic. Nonetheless, I think that sarcasm has its limits, and your comment was borderline offensive at best. I will drop it though, as I am too mature to exchange insults with a high school student.
See the edit. By the way, proclaiming your own mature superiority really raises your standing in my eyes.

[DeadDove]

Not when it involves certain issues. IMO sexual assualt would be one to avoid making those type's of comments on.

[DeadDove]

Actually I'll revise, it possibly it can be done in a sexual assualt and other topics; however it should be done in away that isn't totally insensitive to the issue. If there are any questions in the posters head whether or not a possible remark can be insensitive. It would be best not to make the comment in the first place. If that was adopted here, then I doubt there would be much of an issue here IMO.

[Claverhouse]

*falls asleep*

***


A couple of the replies in this thread seem wildly inappropriate.

I dunno, I can forgive superstring an awful lot for:


I can see a movie starring Jodie Foster coming up in 2009.


Anyway I just love the automatic assumption that truly these people are obviously guilty: 'Burn The Witch !'


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[bergenski]

I will drop it though, as I am too mature to exchange insults with a high school student.

And snobbish...

[In...TP]

A site with the 911 calls (http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014436.html)

[Claverhouse]

A site with the 911 calls

From the chat beneath, one femmie:


The traditional, property-based definition of rape is in direct conflict with the modern, feminist definition, which holds that rape is a crime against a woman, because it violates her right of autonomy and control over her own body.

My personal opinion is that, using the modern definition of rape, there can almost be no such thing as a false charge. Sex is not an entitlement, and all sex should be consensual. If any party to any sex act later claims they were coerced, for any reason, then in my book the burden of proof lies on the accused.

Of course this completely upends the tradition of presumption of innocence, and I understand that, but I am not sure that when we are talking about rape the presumption of innocence does a very good job of leading us on the path to justice.

An accused devil is a guilty devil. Cabell.


Claverhouse :ph34r: