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Thread: INTj vs. INTp article

  1. #1
    Member Array Veradicere's Avatar
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    Default INTj vs. INTp article

    Hi, I found this article and I was curious as to what some of you here would think of it. I usually test INTP, but I sometimes think I might be INTJ. If this article is correct, I'm definitely INTJ. What do you think of it? Does it fit you as an INTP?

    INTj or INTp?
    by Sergei Ganin

    INTjs and INTps can have very similar behaviour, interests and even appearance. However, when it comes to intertype relations there is a big difference between these two, because one's Dual is the other's Conflicting type. Also, two INTjs or two INTps can co-exist quite peacefully, whereas an INTj and an INTp do not make a very promising combination. Join any INTj discussion forum or mailing list and you can see this Quasi-identical tension for yourself. This is because there are many INTps among those INTjs.

    Why do INTps test as INTjs? Because it is possible that some INTps actually do behave in such way that they could be mistaken for Judging types. The common perception of Perceiving types is as disorganised, unreliable and wavering. There are INTps out there that are, on the contrary, organised, reliable and unwavering or at least they may behave as such. As a result they often score as Js. But let's not forget that type is not about how you behave, it is about how your psyche is structured, which in return influences your behaviour in one way or another. Taking more tests or reading more type descriptions may not give an answer to the INTj/INTp question for the reasons explained above. The right way to distinguish between these two types is by making a comparison on a "molecular" level.

    Let's take a look at INTj's main function - introverted thinking (). INTjs are mainly interested in accumulating an understanding. They want to know why and what causes things happen the way they happen. They want to know and see the logic behind everything. If "it" does not contradict logic then "it" is right, otherwise "it" is wrong. INTps on the other hand seem to be logical too as their second strong function is extroverted thinking (). However, if for INTjs it is about gaining understanding, for INTps it is about exercising their knowledge, and therefore they mostly concern themselves with known facts. Moreover, INTj's logic is their area of confidence and conservatism. This makes their logic fundamental, meaning once the rules are established, they can be applied anywhere. INTps logic is their area of creativity. This makes their logic circumstantial and unpredictable - the rules apply here but may not apply there.

    The same goes for Intuition. INTp's main function is introverted intuition (). Since introverted intuition is about internal wholeness or belief, this manifests itself in INTps being highly religious and spiritual people. It is also their area of confidence and conservatism and they will not welcome anything that could disturb that internal wholeness. And since you can believe in things that are not necessarily there or actually true, INTps criticise a lot. As for INTjs, their intuition is their second strong function, which is extroverted intuition (). Extroverted intuition is about perspective and potential and because it is INTj's creative output, their "creations" could be very unexpected and original, often bearing a high potential for future development. So, combining two and two together, INTjs are in their element when involved with science, invention, innovation, discovery, theory, explanation, interpretation, philosophy etc. INTps are in their element when involved with business, enterprise, commerce, industry, trade, financial institutions, church etc.

    Another comparison will be between Dual-seeking functions. INTps are looking out for extroverted sensing (), INTjs are looking out for extroverted feeling (). Since both functions are the subconscious functions, they are likely to influence the subconscious choices. INTps would want to go power driven, moneymaking, sometimes risky places, whereas INTjs would prefer a happy, cheerful and exciting surrounding.

    The last comparison - "Hidden agenda". This is what people hide from other people, because it is very sensitive area of one's psyche. If the main function is like a geometric cone firmly standing on its base, the hidden agenda is like the same cone standing on its tip that one is trying to balance. For INTjs their introverted sensing () is their nightmare. Introverted sensing is mainly about the body, its functions, sensory perceptions etc. The only way they can balance that cone is for them to be physically healthy and if this is not that important to you, you are most probably not INTj. INTps are also trying to balance this cone on its head when it comes to introverted feeling (). Introverted feeling is love, affection, morality etc. It is important for an INTp to be involved with someone, to have an object of affection, to like people. If this doesn't concern you, you are probably a type other than INTp.

    So if after all this you are still not sure whether you are INTj or INTp, maybe you are neither...

  2. #2
    Iconoclast Array SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Excellent article thank you.

    Here is one reason an INTP in Mbti can think of himself as a judger (and for this reason too socionics identifies him as an INTj)

    See.. the INTP's salient function.. is the Ti... which is a judging function...and thus if the INTP is strong internally focused and doesnt find balance with his extroverted side/ extroverted intuition ... his inner world will reign supreme over the outer and he will likely mistake himself for a judger but he will not realize that he is in error untill he begins to function in a healthy manner by discovering and cultivating the salient attributes of his extroverted side/ extoverted Intuition which is a perceiving side... and this alone will make the overall perceiving tendencies of the INTP stronger than the judging tendencies of the Ti.
    "Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man. " Bertrand Russell

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    Senior Member Array htb's Avatar
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    My only concern would be inaccuracies like this one:

    INTps on the other hand seem to be logical too as their second strong function is extroverted thinking
    Oversight, or faulty support?

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    Tiger Beat cover boy Array Lee's Avatar
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    Clear as mud.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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    Correct me. I thought INTP's operated on introverted thinking, extraverted intuition, introverted sensing and extraverted feeling. And I thought INTJ's operated on extroverted thinking, introverted intuition, extraverted sensing, introverted thinking(or something like that).

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    is made out of meat Array Rhu's Avatar
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    Default Moved from "MBTI Talk"; Title Changed

    Quote Originally Posted by htb View Post
    My only concern would be inaccuracies like this one:



    Oversight, or faulty support?
    Quote Originally Posted by sPaCeDdReAmS View Post
    Correct me. I thought INTP's operated on introverted thinking, extraverted intuition, introverted sensing and extraverted feeling. And I thought INTJ's operated on extroverted thinking, introverted intuition, extraverted sensing, introverted thinking(or something like that).
    This is actually a socionics article; their types are analagous, but not the same. Typical MBTI INTPs will map to either INTj or ENTp in socionics--though exceptions occur because the socionics approach to type theory tends to be focused on interpersonal interactions (which is why the vocabulary can also be different--nobody refers to things like "Duals" or "Quasi-Identicals" in MBTI-based theory). As a contrast, MBTI's focus is mainly on personal functional preference.

    At least that's how I understand it. A socionics expert could probably explain it all far better.


    Regardless, the thread was a bit misleading and has found a slightly new name and home.

  7. #7
    Please leave a message... Array
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    Quote Originally Posted by sPaCeDdReAmS View Post
    Correct me. I thought INTP's operated on introverted thinking, extraverted intuition, introverted sensing and extraverted feeling. And I thought INTJ's operated on extroverted thinking, introverted intuition, extraverted sensing, introverted thinking(or something like that).
    Pretty sure this is socionics. Which explains why I can't make heads or tails of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhu View Post
    This is actually a socionics article; their types are analagous, but not the same. Typical MBTI INTPs will map to either INTj or ENTp in socionics--though exceptions occur because the socionics approach to type theory tends to be focused on interpersonal interactions (which is why the vocabulary can also be different--nobody refers to things like "Duals" or "Quasi-Identicals" in MBTI-based theory). As a contrast, MBTI's focus is mainly on personal functional preference.

    At least that's how I understand it. A socionics expert could probably explain it all far better.


    Regardless, the thread was a bit misleading and has found a slightly new name and home.

    yeah. But hey doesn't it make sense that an INTP would operate on extroverted thinking. Like an INTP walks into a room and observes its purpose. Or am I just misusing the meaning of extroverted thinking? Frankly, I like the OP better than socionics. I wonder how many folks agree.
    Last edited by Oculus Sinister; 25 Feb 2008 at 12:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Clear as mud.
    So, you disliked it?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Kljoki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhu View Post
    Typical MBTI INTPs will map to either INTj or ENTp in socionics
    This is a common fallacy. Typical INTP will most likely map onto INTp, meaning, that person would be Ni dominant according to socionics standards. Rarely, if ever, will they map onto ENTp. INTp and ENTp have entirely different temperaments and dichotomies. One has to be aware when dealing with the two systems that the functions are not interchangeable between them, Si in MBTI is not the same thing as Si in socionics.

    though exceptions occur because the socionics approach to type theory tends to be focused on interpersonal interactions (which is why the vocabulary can also be different--nobody refers to things like "Duals" or "Quasi-Identicals" in MBTI-based theory). As a contrast, MBTI's focus is mainly on personal functional preference.
    Having seen both systems I'd say that socionics focuses on information exchange/interaction between people while MBTT focuses on people's personality.
    http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/9652/infpmodela5ca.gif


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