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Thread: enneagram 5 wing 6

  1. #11
    Junior Member Array todayme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notsweetynice View Post
    This is an interesting description of the 5 wing 6 type. I noticed a definite difference among some of the members at INTP central from myself, a 5 wing 4. These people fit the 5 wing 6 description to a tee.

    Enneagram 5 is most associated with INTP, but 6 is associated with ISXJ. Though enneagram 5w6 individuals are INTP it seems that their N and P are weaker and moving towards SJ.

    Those with 5w4 could be INTP as well, but perhaps with a stronger N and P and a weaker T.


    http://mindheart.org/junction/oldcj/ep/types/5/56.html

    description
    sixish skepticism
    a dry, sometimes intolerant personality
    5/6 may be more interested in politics than nature
    detail oriented

    unbalanced

    intense, argumentative combativeness
    rationalize that most people are not honest


    I beleive I am a 5 with a wing and I am definatley an intp thats for sure.
    http://www.sold.au.com Another money hungry INTP ha ha.

  2. #12
    Banned Array FranG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notsweetynice View Post
    description
    sixish skepticism
    a dry, sometimes intolerant personality
    5/6 may be more interested in politics than nature
    detail oriented

    unbalanced

    intense, argumentative combativeness
    rationalize that most people are not honest
    I think most INTPs on this site fit the 5w6 description. I'm a 5w4. One thing I noticed about the site though is that the 5w6 is more apt to conspiracy theories than the 5w4. Although many will say that FranG definitely fits that mode, I disagree and think that the 5w6 would definitely fall victim to a conspiracy theory or some kind of con much easier due to their desire to be sociable and connect to people. It all stems from the security issues of type 6. Also, my girlfriend is ISFJ and a 6w7 and she definitely has the infamous SJ traits that are denounced on this board. But I've noticed these traits in some of the INTPs here and the 5w6 would explain why.

    Here's a good site for a mapping of MBTI and Enneagram types. I don't really focus on the other stuff on the site so much but I think the mapping is dead on. Per the site, 5w4 most resembles INTJ in MBTI though. I've been considering that about myself as of late. Per Kiersey, INTJs are the most open-minded of all the types and at least entertain most ideas. I defintely can say that's true about me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Notsweetynice View Post
    I've been thinking of the functions as being on a continuum. It never made sense to me any other way.

    So Fi/e and Ti/e cannot co-exist, but if they are separated according to Fi, Fe, Ti, and Te then they can co-exist?
    I think this hits it on the head. I think the Enneagram is continuous and more intertwined than MBTI. I lbloom is right in stating that MBTI treats its preferences as mutually exclusive. I believe that's a flaw in MBTI, thus not making it as useful as the Enneagram. That said, MBTI is a quick and dirty predictor of behavior and is pretty accurate in most cases. However, the Enneagram takes into account a lot more factors.

    Another observation, if you look at Kiersey's temperament groupings of MBTI and map them to the Enneagram types, you'll notice that they are all over the place. You would think they'd be right next to each other on the Enneagram, but they are scattered amongst the wheel of the Enneagram, falling into different triads. More evidence that the Enneagram provides more insight into personality behaviors (unfortunately it's complicated and takes a little longer to figure out).

  3. #13
    Made in Thailand Array Jennywocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranG View Post
    Another observation, if you look at Kiersey's temperament groupings of MBTI and map them to the Enneagram types, you'll notice that they are all over the place. You would think they'd be right next to each other on the Enneagram, but they are scattered amongst the wheel of the Enneagram, falling into different triads. More evidence that the Enneagram provides more insight into personality behaviors (unfortunately it's complicated and takes a little longer to figure out).
    The reason I give credibility to the MBTI is because it operates from functions, covering all the bases.

    There are both perceiving (taking in information) and judging (weighing and making decisions) from information, in both the inner and outer worlds. So all the bases seem to be covered.

    And personality is not a "done deal," it's then constructed from motivations -- how one observes and processes information and then acts on it.

    The big problem with the ennegram is that it starts with nine seemingly arbitrary personality types, then tries to deconstruct them. (See the assumption here?)

    How are these nine archetypes determined? Why were they chosen, and not nine other ones? Why were they arranged the way they were? Are they comprehensive? The Three category, to be honest, comes across as a "catch-all" category to make up for any inherent errors in the system. ("Hmmm. Well, we don't know where to put these people, so let's just make up a type that doesn't really have a type and just pretends to be other types in order to succeed.")

    There's not really a rational basis for the theory, it's more like the theory was made, then tweaked to try to get it all in alignment. The MBTI, on the other hand, was not constructed first and then supported by data, it was derived from data, generally.

    I'm not saying there's NO truth to the ennegram. Obviously it is useful in explaining type and especially to suggest integration/disintegration directions. But it and the MBTI were constructed in opposite ways; and so at the core, the Ennegram was a theory that was created, then tweaked by the data, while MBTI was derived from data to begin with.
    "The word on her lips is always YES, and all her being says YES YES YES to all that is happening and all that is offered her." - Anais Nin
    I love my life.

  4. #14
    Banned Array FranG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortunato View Post
    There are both perceiving (taking in information) and judging (weighing and making decisions) from information, in both the inner and outer worlds. So all the bases seem to be covered.

    And personality is not a "done deal," it's then constructed from motivations -- how one observes and processes information and then acts on it.
    Yeah you're probably right here. I definitely need to study the Enneagram more. But the site I linked above seems to be accurate as far as linking MBTI to the Enneagram types.

    I do have a problem with the mutual exclusion of the preferences though in MBTI. The basis are all covered, true, but the weights assigned to each preference are not taken into account. The terms I learned from INTPc is overactive Ne, or undeveloped Ti, etc. But their isn't a type for these cases whereas the Enneagram seems to capture that a little bit more with the wings, the sexual variants, triads, and direction of integration, etc. That said though, I definitely need to become more versed with the Enneagram.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Array Notsweetynice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortunato View Post

    I'm not saying there's NO truth to the ennegram. Obviously it is useful in explaining type and especially to suggest integration/disintegration directions. But it and the MBTI were constructed in opposite ways; and so at the core, the Ennegram was a theory that was created, then tweaked by the data, while MBTI was derived from data to begin with.
    Sounds like you are referring to the difference between inductive (specific to general) and deductive (general to specific) reasoning. I don't believe either one is any more rational than the other.

    N types are probably more inclined to use deductive reasoning whereas S types would be more inclined to use inductive reasoning.
    "The more I know, the less I know."

  6. #16
    Senior Member Array Notsweetynice's Avatar
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    I believe that MBTI and the enneagram reflect underlying neurotransmitter levels/brain structural differences between individuals. They both have validity and are even better when used in concert with eachother. Maybe in the future we can take tests which will tell us our personality based on actual physiological facts; Tests such as these would probably make personality systems obsolete.
    "The more I know, the less I know."

  7. #17
    Made in Thailand Array Jennywocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notsweetynice View Post
    Sounds like you are referring to the difference between inductive (specific to general) and deductive (general to specific) reasoning. I don't believe either one is any more rational than the other.

    N types are probably more inclined to use deductive reasoning whereas S types would be more inclined to use inductive reasoning.
    Huh? Isn't inductive reasoning generally the province of the N function? Inductive reasoning makes leaps -- it decides that since something is true, and something else is similar to the first, then maybe the same thing applies to the second thing. (i.e., "I have seen many white birds of this species. Perhaps all birds of this species are white.")

    Deductive reasoning collects facts, then draws a theory from them. That's a linear S-type progression, and there are no real "leaps" -- all the ducks are in a row. (i.e., "All ducks are white. This bird is a duck. Thus, this bird is white.")

    [ not that all ducks are white]

    Quote Originally Posted by Notsweetynice View Post
    I believe that MBTI and the enneagram reflect underlying neurotransmitter levels/brain structural differences between individuals. They both have validity and are even better when used in concert with eachother. Maybe in the future we can take tests which will tell us our personality based on actual physiological facts; Tests such as these would probably make personality systems obsolete.
    I'm not sure if there are any discernable physiological facts, at least nothing that can "clinch" matters. The room for variation between individuals is far too great.

    (For example, N's probably have a more developed corpus colloseum (sp?) -- the section that connects the hemisphere's together . But women also have a more developed corpus colloseum than men. So is the subject an N, or a female? As soon as you get enough variables, you can't really distinguish.)

    Personally, I am not saying the Ennegram is useless. I actually use both. I just happen to feel like MBTI is less arbitrary. But the ennegram is useful if someone actually fits into an archetype.
    "The word on her lips is always YES, and all her being says YES YES YES to all that is happening and all that is offered her." - Anais Nin
    I love my life.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Array Notsweetynice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortunato View Post

    Personally, I am not saying the Ennegram is useless. I actually use both. I just happen to feel like MBTI is less arbitrary. But the ennegram is useful if someone actually fits into an archetype.
    So you don't fit into any archetype? I find that strange because while I'm out of practice at the moment with regards to the enneagram I used to be very adept at figuring out peoples' enn. type.

    BTW, my father is a perfect example of a type 3 and even though he is usually completely skeptical and disinterested about such things, he had to admit that it was an uncanny description. I wouldn't say it was a catch-all type at all. I haven't even met anyone else that fit the 3-achiever as I think I naturally stay away from those people.
    Last edited by Notsweetynice; 30 Jan 2007 at 02:33 AM.
    "The more I know, the less I know."

  9. #19
    Junior Member Array todayme's Avatar
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    I think most 5 / 4 wings are fairly artistic where 5 /6 are problem solvers of the highest order..........my farther is a 6...........and he f.. drives me nuts
    http://www.sold.au.com Another money hungry INTP ha ha.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Array Notsweetynice's Avatar
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    Interesting site FranG. Tell me how it compares to this one; It's the one I refer to most because it seemed to make sense to me.

    http://www.breakoutofthebox.com/flauttrichards.htm

    The correlations between MBTI and enneagram type were based on 964 people, not theory.
    "The more I know, the less I know."

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