INTJ discussion: Are INTJ just ISTJ with a bit of intuition?

[kble]

quietly grandiose, scheming, impulsive approach to life

Hah, so true. But the really good scheming only comes when you get outside of your Ni-Te box (and instead of repelling or scaring P (and other) types manage to touch them somehow...this also changes the nature of the scheming into a far more complex approach to life in general IME).

Nothing gets beyond (IN)P distrust more efficiently than the avowal of doubt (which ideally you should in fact feel at the time of the disclosure). I get the impression some (IN)Ps conflate doubt with openness.

[Owfin]

ISTJs in ENFP-mode: does this mean that 1. The ISTJ in question is more intuitive than your usual ISTJ 2. The ISTJ is stressed/in shadow mode, or 3. Comfortable so they're just having fun?

ISTJ in ENFP mode is either stressed/in shadow mode (bad) or more trusting of intuition (good; with Ne being inferior for ISTJs, trust in it is hard won). The form of intuition in ISTJs is more along the lines of an ENFP's or an ENTP's intuition than an INTJ's.

[MyMomentously]

ISTJ in ENFP mode is either stressed/in shadow mode (bad) or more trusting of intuition (good; with Ne being inferior for ISTJs, trust in it is hard won). The form of intuition in ISTJs is more along the lines of an ENFP's or an ENTP's intuition than an INTJ's.

ISTJ - Si > Te > Fi > Ne
ENFP - Ne > Fi > Te > Si

I find it hard to understand this shadow mode logic. Would you mind elaborating more, Owfin? ISTJ in ENFP mode?

[Owfin]

ISTJ - Si > Te > Fi > Ne
ENFP - Ne > Fi > Te > Si

I find it hard to understand this shadow mode logic. Would you mind elaborating more, Owfin? ISTJ in ENFP mode?

Ah, I didn't really want to get roped into this, since I'm not so sure about the shadow thing myself. I was basically trying to explain that ISTJs orient their N to Ne and not Ni. That was all.

ISTJs, however, tend to reject Ne. Ne will be the parts that we will say "this is not me, this is not how I think". We have identifed Si as our leading role, the hero, the main star of the cognitive show, so then Ne, which involves everything that Si doesn't in perception, becomes the antagonist.

[MyMomentously]

Ah, I didn't really want to get roped into this, since I'm not so sure about the shadow thing myself. I was basically trying to explain that ISTJs orient their N to Ne and not Ni. That was all.

ISTJs, however, tend to reject Ne. Ne will be the parts that we will say "this is not me, this is not how I think". We have identifed Si as our leading role, the hero, the main star of the cognitive show, so then Ne, which involves everything that Si doesn't in perception, becomes the antagonist.

I don't follow, I'm sorry. Maybe because my English is substandard. *sighs*

[Owfin]

I don't follow, I'm sorry. Maybe because my English is substandard. *sighs*

People process information a certain way. Processing information the opposite way seems wrong and strange.

That is my summary.

[MyMomentously]

People process information a certain way differently. Processing information the opposite way seems wrong and strange is pretty normal.

That is my summary.

Whoa, is this a grandiose attempt at sarcasm? Okay, fixed that for you. =D

[Owfin]

Whoa, is this a grandiose attempt at sarcasm? Okay, fixed that for you. =D

It isn't.

I mean, yes, it is pretty normal, from an outsider's perspective. But it seems weird to consider yourself think the opposite way.

[angelique]

That is similar to saying if you're right brain dominant, can you be left brain dominant?

The answer is No.

[bass_n_treble]

I am trying to understand this.

Why does ENTJs seem so retarded, and INTJs seem smart. (based on my online impression)
Like I notice alot of INTJs have high IQ, while ENTJs say the dumbest shit on the internet.
ENTJs could be the dumbest NT type, while I would not say the same thing about INTJs.

Maybe when you externalize your Te (extraverted thinking), your IQ suddenly drop 30 points?

Or are INTJs not as smart as they seem?

No, I just think your reasoning is flawed, and you have a problem with authority... a position ENTJ is most likely in (and because of intelligence, rather than ESTJ bullying or ESFJ ass-kissing).