INFJ/ISFJ/INFP Male's

[Zero Angel]

Originally Posted by Carebear

I've found the same recently. However, this only works if she/he doesn't have/percieve to have any authority in the relation. It bothers me (disliking confrontations) that the ESTJs I've met seemed to need some sort of pecking order, so that I'd either have to play alpha or accept that they assumed the role. They really seemed uncomfortable with the concept of being on equal footing unless we were both subject to a third person playing alpha. If I went against this third person alpha male/female in anything, they'd be there snapping at me to get me back in line.

Interesting. My sister-in-law is an ESTJ and although she's very nice to me, when her mother asks her for a favor, she usually dismisses it, like she won't go out of her way to please anyone. It's odd though because that person doesnt fit the mode of the stereotypical ESTJ, coming across as having the slightly softer edge of the ISTJ.

Furthermore, I think that the ESTJ wants you to treat them the same way they treat you. People who 'hide their feelings' (while actually, thoughts) from the ESTJ are suspicious and not to be trusted because they expect the same straightforwardness from you as they give you (whether you want it or not).

Ultimately though, in spite of the ESTJ's normal manner, they seem to want to belong somehow or develop some sort of brotherhood with something. With that done, they are free to reject other circumstances which grants them tremendous freedom. And because their feeling process is the inferior one, and even worse, its introverted feeling. The would never be able to admit they like you. My ISTJ brother-in-law and ESTJ sister-in-law seemed to have deliberately chosen their musical tastes to fit mine. Even though they would never say that they did.

I believe that if a TJ ever accomodates you, then they really like you or trust you, because accomodation is so against their nature, that even a small gesture can mean a lot more than is readily apparent.

[digesthisickness]

Originally Posted by Capitu

That is true, a stupid story... As I told you growing up I had an ESTJ friend and an ENFP friend.

When I played with the ESTJ she had lots of dolls, the best doll was always hers, but as soon as you became close to the chain of command (her), meaning... she started to consider you as a closer friend, the doll improved as well, for example, when we started to play together I got the worst doll (meaning, she didn't consider me such a close friend), as soon as the friendship improved my dolls kept improving (I had no dolls myself). The day I got to her house and she gave me the best second doll, I knew immediately that she considered me her best friend.

Now, the ENFP on the other hand, she didn't have as many dolls, put she kept a very democratic system: "Today you get the best doll, next time you show up I do" and we kept switching the dolls. One day I got a doll, I was really happy, so I went to the ENFP's house dying to play with my "own and new doll", she tells me: "But today is my turn to get the best doll, and the best doll is yours". Damn, she got a point! So I accepted and gave her my doll, but it did strike me how fair she was.

Now, if you think about it, they both had different systems, which one is correct? Of course I would side with the ENFP, maybe you too. However the ESTJs system is not invalid, it is just different. It is the way they reason in their minds how things should work. They need the structure, you can work with them, build their trust slowly or you can crash with them. I garantee that once you gain their trust, they will do anything to help you. Edit - at least has been my experience.

i love this story!

i immediately thought of when i was a little girl and lived with someone for a while. no one allowed me to take any of my things when these 'moves' took place, so during those times, i had no toys of my own. however i did have a playmate once who would do the exact same thing with her dolls as the ESTJ did with you. and, it progressed the exact same way. i thought about it and yes, she was/is an ESTJ. until you mentioned it, i hadn't thought about how a situation such as 'playing' could be so telling.

however, when i did have my toys, a little pink bean doll was my favorite (as far as the doll category). i'd even operated on her numerous times including replacing feet 'beans' with small gravel, etc. anyway, more than once when a friend didn't have a doll, i was asked if they could play with the pink one, and i quite seriously refused. she was off-limits. however, i'd tell them to pick any other doll of mine, and they could keep it so that they'd have a doll of their own permanently ("forever and ever") to do with as they chose.

oh, and since i've gone this far, i may as well admit that i still know to this day who's playing with that pink doll. i know because she's in my bedroom closet.

i have issues.

[Zero Angel]

You mean you actually keep a doll from childhood?!

OMG. You need help. Strait jacket and muzzle type of help.

[digesthisickness]

Originally Posted by Zero Angel

You mean you actually keep a doll from childhood?!

OMG. You need help. Strait jacket and muzzle type of help.

:D

this, i never denied.

believe me, i don't want to analyze it too deeply. just going slightly into why i still guard her jealously, i start wondering if i need(ed) more hugs or something, then it gets to be too intense, and i drop it. i'll tackle it later if i'm ever in a situation in which i'm getting plenty of hugs.

[Noel]

Originally Posted by sPaCeDdReAmS

How are you different from female types of your temperament? I wonder how testerone and the masculine culture that pervades us affects your strong feelings.

I suppose I'm a bit more feminate in nature than most men but I still consider myself as a man. Why, aside from physical attributes?

I'm not looking for a knight in shinning armour to sweep me off my feet to live happily ever after. I can live on my own. I desire someone independent, who can function without me but enjoys my company when we are together. Her being there with me alone, makes me feel worthy/special of their attention-that makes me feel strong.

Much like a reservoir, I can't remember the last time I cried. The times I do become emotional, I do not want other to endure my burden. I'm responsible for my own feelings, let alone my own actions. If people want to know, I'll tell them i.e. whenever I'm with an ENFP acquaintance, it pretty much becomes a mutual emotional masterbation party. The difference between him and I though is that he constantly attempts to cum to no avail (impotence), I can reach my climax and stop. It is almost as if he constantly projects what I am feeling and that drains me-I don't need to hear another me.

I'm not pure, innocent, or good. I am I. Everything can't exist as a binary, black and white. I strive for balance i.e can't have conflict without accord. I've enjoyed having sex with a women and have enjoyed direct contact with my prosate while masterbating. I feel I've experienced not only what a homosexual must feel but if a woman in a similiar instance must feel-I consider my sexuality to be straight.

Originally Posted by sPaCeDdReAmS

See, heres something. I am thinking a male INFP could certainly use his Fness to get laid more than a male INTP.

Absolutely. I've come up with a set of traits that a male INFP would have in order to get some action. Granted, the INFP implied would have to be Mature, as in Unity of mind and body, complete control of his emotions, lack any doubt in his abilities and overall, functions gracefully: physically, mentally and verbally.

Benign Incubus or I Need Fucking Pussy: A tact, unbashed and graceful INFP that utilizes his "feminine" side combined with honed perception, acting on/from body language cues to get laid.

[mmortal03]

Originally Posted by ptide

As an INFP I can assure you all that being an 'F' doesn't mean more or less testostorone. If we were to assume Thinker means thinking and Feeling means feeling, guess which type would wanna get laid more?

But that isn't what Thinking and Feeling mean in Myers Briggs. Socionics gives more accurate labels of Logic and Empathy. These terms are a little less loaded and could help clear up the confusion.

My empathy means I usually shun the traditional masculine culture. I'd feel sick at myself if I were to treat women as objects. Sport as warfare holds no appeal for me. I like to play sport for fun and competition.. but as soon as it becomes egoic, 'my team is the best' or 'such and such team sucks balls', I lose interest. I don't drink alcohol (just me - not INFP's in general) because any interaction between people whilst under the influence.. is just artificial.. it's not real.

The idea that men are supposed to be loud, obnoxious, stupid, sex-crazed and alcoholic is perpetuated by our mindless ESTJ ruling class.

We should be who we are.. and not afraid. It is moral cowardice to sink to stereotypes. Who are we fooling?... The real man will be himself and stand by his values and principles.

Those values and principles will differ from type to type. Mine are based on my empathy.. you INTP's will hold to logic.

Masculinity should not be confused with playing the sheep role.

But all of this could be said for an INTP, including myself. Maybe it wasn't ptide's point to differentiate between INTP and INFP, though, but something else that I missed.