Little rants that don't deserve their own thread

[intrepid_wanders]

Originally Posted by outmywindow

Non-rhotic accents generally result in linking Rs between two words when one ends with a vowel sound, and the other begins in one. In some cases, the extraneous R is included in words at the ends of sentences ("What's the big idear?" for example) out of mishabitualized pronunciation.

Are there any rules that you know of for this 'Massachusetts' or rhotic like concept of "w(light r inclusive)a(heavy r inclusive)sh"? The "w" has a transitive history which could be anything, but the heavy inclusive 'r' has a rhotic tenancy. Is this the same? Is it correct to be used outside of the dialect differences of England?

Seriously curious.

[outmywindow]

I don't understand this: "w(light r inclusive)a(heavy r inclusive)sh"

Are you asking about people who pronounce "wash" as "warsh?"

[intrepid_wanders]

Originally Posted by outmywindow

I don't understand this: "w(light r inclusive)a(heavy r inclusive)sh"

Are you asking about people who pronounce "wash" as "warsh?"

Yes.

[outmywindow]

Originally Posted by intrepid_wanders

Yes.

I've never thought of that habit as Massachusettsian (?). Where I have heard it is places like Missouri, and anywhere with a large Dustbowl immigrant population, like the central San Joaquin Valley in California, where I grew up. In fact, I had to intentionally break the habit of saying "warsh" myself.

Anyway, I think the inclusion of the R in "wash" has something to do with the transition of the mouth from the "ah" sound to the "sh" sound. The tip of the tongue rolls upward as the mouth changes from the open "ah" to the "sh" sound. Say "rshrshrsh" out loud, and you'll see that the tongue change is rather subtle. Maybe the R comes from the tongue anticipating the "sh" sound.

A lot of idiosyncrasies in pronunciation come from mouth/lip/tongue movement, and the tendencies for voiced sounds to affect their unvoiced neighbors. A textbook on Indo-European phonology would be advisable if you're really this interested in the subject (it's a very fascinating one).

[sandwich]

Rant: People who say Wa(r)shington.

[outmywindow]

Originally Posted by sandwich

Rant: People who say Wa(r)shington.

I don't say it anymore! I promise!

[intrepid_wanders]

Originally Posted by outmywindow

I've never thought of that habit as Massachusettsian (?). Where I have heard it is places like Missouri, and anywhere with a large Dustbowl immigrant population, like the central San Joaquin Valley in California, where I grew up. In fact, I had to intentionally break the habit of saying "warsh" myself.

Anyway, I think the inclusion of the R in "wash" has something to do with the transition of the mouth from the "ah" sound to the "sh" sound. The tip of the tongue rolls upward as the mouth changes from the open "ah" to the "sh" sound. Say "rshrshrsh" out loud, and you'll see that the tongue change is rather subtle. Maybe the R comes from the tongue anticipating the "sh" sound.

A lot of idiosyncrasies in pronunciation come from mouth/lip/tongue movement, and the tendencies for voiced sounds to affect their unvoiced neighbors. A textbook on Indo-European phonology would be advisable if you're really this interested in the subject (it's a very fascinating one).

Fascinating. My grandmother was from Missouri and my grandfather was from Arkansas (yet another fun enunciation word in which I believe was a French undoing). They also were dustbowl migrants to the Los Angles area and retired in the San Joaquin area. She had the inclusive "r", yet he did not.

I understand the compatibility of the "r" inclusion with the "ah" and "sh" sounds, but the tongue curl for the "r" seems like too more work to mishabitualize, much like the rolling "r" in Spanish. My personal theory of dialects, accents and phonetics is that they tend to simplify over time, but I guess it is back to the books .

[aelan]

Mondays... *gloomy*

[MacGuffin]

Still Sunday here!

G&T!

[MacGuffin]

The stereotype of gay men is they are all fashionable.

This, of course, isn't true, but it seems some gay men latch onto it as an excuse to wear anything and still think they are stylish.

Note to the gay gentlemen at the movie theater in the all pink outfit:

No, you were not working it.