A Set Future

[Alicia]

Starting my membership participation off with a big bang and making a thread.

Not so much of a formal introductory, but let's not waste time and get straight to the point.

My boyfriend (tested INFJ) and I were having a bit of a discussion a few minutes ago over the phone about whether or not there is such a thing as destiny (no this wasn't any lovey dovey 'we were meant for each other' type of deal). While these conversations only happen in a blue moon (mainly because I initiate them) he is very insightful and is capable of participating in them.

One thing that differentiates us is the fact that he often has core gut feelings about things which I don't tend to experience.

His theory is that if it were true, you would also have to believe that if a child died, and someone else felt the effects of it, it was meant to happen. In other words, the greater cause would have to entitle a sacrifice caused by destiny. Other scenarios revolve around that feeling.

He tells me this concept goes completely against what he feels is right.

What are your ideas?

[carbon cold]

Originally Posted by Alicia

Starting my membership participation off with a big bang and making a thread.

Not so much of a formal introductory, but let's not waste time and get straight to the point.

My boyfriend (tested INFJ) and I were having a bit of a discussion a few minutes ago over the phone about whether or not there is such a thing as destiny (no this wasn't any lovey dovey 'we were meant for each other' type of deal). While these conversations only happen in a blue moon (mainly because I initiate them) he is very insightful and is capable of participating in them.

One thing that differentiates us is the fact that he often has core gut feelings about things which I don't tend to experience.

His theory is that if it were true, you would also have to believe that if a child died, and someone else felt the effects of it, it was meant to happen. In other words, the greater cause would have to entitle a sacrifice caused by destiny. Other scenarios revolve around that feeling.

What are your ideas?

The Uncertainty Principle.

Welcome.

[ryan_m_parr]

My iNtuitive tendencies are more aligned to possibilities in theory, though rarely the feeling traits. Nothing is predestined, though it is inherent in society to associate with a 'GREATER' part of mankind, that is interconnected. . . Sort of like the cosmos. Though I will sometimes regale in a sense of bewildered emotional state, it never goes past the experience of intrigue. If ever I have certainty in uncertainty, it is more aligned with accepting that some things aren't yet knowable, and that as result of my willingness to consider that some things aren't fully knowable, only so far as dubious possibility as to the integral parts are not in question. So in other words I don't actually believe what I accept as a possibility, though suspend judgment through intrigue. As far as such destiny, it could have been prevented, perhaps.

[awe]

Originally Posted by Alicia

His theory is that if it were true, you would also have to believe that if a child died, and someone else felt the effects of it, it was meant to happen. In other words, the greater cause would have to entitle a sacrifice caused by destiny. Other scenarios revolve around that feeling.

What are your ideas?

Can you provide another example?

[Alicia]

Originally Posted by awe

Can you provide another example?

Basically speaking, if you believe in a set future, you believe everything happens for a reason.

Anyone believing in a set future have any contradictions they would like to express?

MO: I think we have to start off with the definition of the past, present, and future. To the people who believe in a set future, how would you define such? Thinking that there may be a set future, to what does that extend to? We each may have our own set future, but where is the point of it all coming to that particular point. The reason why our future is set. Because of our lack of that definiton we definitely cannot conclude such. It's bluntly an unknown.

..haha I love how that didn't get me anywhere. Hah the joys of INTP ^^

[ATPB]

Originally Posted by Alicia

Basically speaking, if you believe in a set future, you believe everything happens for a reason.

Everything does happen for a reason. I don't see how you have to believe it happens for a meaningful reason though.

I get the feeling I'm missing the point here, maybe?

[Chunes]

Destiny is a meaningless word. It means the same thing as knowing the future, which is really just knowing the location and type of every particle in the universe at a given time. So when you ask 'do you believe in destiny?'

Well—of course I think that each particle in the universe will be in some spot in the future. The notion that they wouldn't is sort of silly, barring an anomaly of physics.

[Dirac]

Originally Posted by Chunes

Destiny is a meaningless word. It means the same thing as knowing the future, which is really just knowing the location and type of every particle in the universe at a given time. So when you ask 'do you believe in destiny?'

Well—of course I think that each particle in the universe will be in some spot in the future. The notion that they wouldn't is sort of silly, barring an anomaly of physics.

Quantum physics?

But yeah i believe that the future is pretty set, but not for any reason other than the laws of physics. No higher power.

[walfin]

Originally Posted by Dirac

But yeah i believe that the future is pretty set, but not for any reason other than the laws of physics. No higher power.

Same, except I believe the laws of physics/chemistry/biology were themselves created by a higher power. He wrote the framework and let it run, and there's no way for the sim to run a different way unless a variable is changed (in which case it wouldn't technically be the same universe anymore).

Originally Posted by Chunes

So when you ask 'do you believe in destiny?'

I believe this actually means, "do you think there is no true random factor in the universe"?
Because if there were, then there wouldn't be such a thing as destiny.
The concept of destiny is diametrically opposed to 100% true randomness. If you believe in destiny, you believe randomness is only pseudo-random. A different way to express the uncertainty principle either.

And yeah, I've talked at length about this nonsense before, not just here. I don't believe it's fair or just either, like your boyfriend, but then again real life as a human isn't really just; why should everything else be different?

[The Phantom]

I don't think destiny is set it changes from day to day. I think prophecy's are real but they can be changed. At the end of the day its down to the individual to change their destiny as they see fit. I can say, if your a heroin addict your gonna be a bum that's your destiny unless of course you happen to kick the habit and get a job.

There are many paths you can take paths that lead to destiny's and branching paths that lead to other outcomes.